Sexless Affectionless Marriage for Many Many Years

[amarriedguy]

My wife and I are in our late 50s and have been married 18 years; we have no children, by mutual decision. On the surface it would seem we have a happy marriage, but I'm completely miserable and feel alone. Let me try to explain.

 

15 years ago something terrible happened to my wife. I'm unwilling to describe it, but imagine that she was repeatedly brutally raped and that each time the rapist attempted to murder her (sorry, that's nightmarish enough...). The extreme damage is both physical and emotional, and neither is really healed.

 

As a result we haven't had sex in 15 years. We kiss good morning, good bye, good night--but it isn't romantic, it's on the lips but brief. We hug and hold hands; we sleep in the same bed, but there is no intimacy. She can't/won't talk about our lack of intimacy. And even if tonight everything changed and she wanted to have a sexual relationship again I'm not sure if I'm still sexually attracted to her after 15 years of celibacy.

 

Her work involves travel; typically one month per year, but some years much much more. The travel is essential to her work, but she seems indifferent to how it might affect me and our relationship. I have wondered if she is having an affair(s). There is no real evidence of that, but it's hard not to wonder.

 

We've never fought much and I can probably count the arguments on two hands--if I even remembered them. She can be very critical about little things. She's never accepted her responsibility or culpability in the argument; she is always right and I am always wrong.

 

I don't know whether I love her or if I'm just used to being with her. I've considered trying to find a mistress--but the risks seem too high. I've wondered about divorce, but I'm afraid I wouldn't find another partner and spend the rest of my life alone; I doubt that I could finance a divorce; my lifestyle post-divorce would be pretty bad; and my retirement would be non-existent. A separation or divorce, or her discovering an affair, would absolutely devastate her--and I'm unwilling to hurt her that way.

 

I see little point in counseling; she is always right and I am always wrong and there is no likelihood of her being physically intimate/affectionate. As I see it there is no way out of my situation without causing terrible injury. But maybe an outsider has another perspective...

[pepperbird]

op,

you're in a tough spot. has your wife had any counseling for herself? If not, it sounds like she could really use it.

[amarriedguy]

She did, but only years ago for the immediate affects of what happened to her. I never asked what they talked about--of course--but what she did tell me was that it was for her anger and grief about what happened to her. But that was shortly after the incidents, and I seriously doubt she would even consider any counseling for herself now.

[AMarriedMan]

As a result we haven't had sex in 15 years. We kiss good morning, good bye, good night--but it isn't romantic, it's on the lips but brief. We hug and hold hands; we sleep in the same bed, but there is no intimacy. She can't/won't talk about our lack of intimacy. And even if tonight everything changed and she wanted to have a sexual relationship again I'm not sure if I'm still sexually attracted to her after 15 years of celibacy.

 

So, you had a normal marriage until the traumatic event after which it's been the same for 15 years.

 

Her work involves travel; typically one month per year, but some years much much more. The travel is essential to her work, but she seems indifferent to how it might affect me and our relationship. I have wondered if she is having an affair(s). There is no real evidence of that, but it's hard not to wonder.

 

Has the tragic thing that happened to her affected her in any other way than cause her not to want to have any intimacy with you?

 

We've never fought much and I can probably count the arguments on two hands--if I even remembered them. She can be very critical about little things. She's never accepted her responsibility or culpability in the argument; she is always right and I am always wrong.

 

That's typical of women. What happens if you challenge her views and press on? Or do you usually just give in and accept you're wrong, tacitly or explicitly?

 

I don't know whether I love her or if I'm just used to being with her.

 

It would be extremely surprising if 15 years of no intimacy would've not killed much of your romantic/erotic feelings toward her. Otherwise, you would've gone crazy with frustration.

 

I've considered trying to find a mistress--but the risks seem too high. I've wondered about divorce, but I'm afraid I wouldn't find another partner and spend the rest of my life alone;

 

But you don't have a real partner now.

 

I doubt that I could finance a divorce; my lifestyle post-divorce would be pretty bad; and my retirement would be non-existent.

 

Why would your retirement be non-existent? You haven't saved for it?

 

A separation or divorce, or her discovering an affair, would absolutely devastate her--and I'm unwilling to hurt her that way.

 

Why do you think it would devastate her?

 

I see little point in counseling; she is always right and I am always wrong

 

You were in your early forties/late thirties when you married her. I'm sure a person would know better than not to look for flaws like that in their prospective marriage partners' personalities by then. Why didn't you? Or did it not feel like a deal breaker at the time?

 

and there is no likelihood of her being physically intimate/affectionate.

 

Have you ever tried to resolve that issue?

 

As I see it there is no way out of my situation without causing terrible injury. But maybe an outsider has another perspective...

 

What's great about your situation is that you don't have children. I'm not saying divorcing is ever easy but think how much more complicated this would all be if you had minor children in the house.

Edited October 9, 2019 by AMarriedMan

[amarriedguy]

So, you had a normal marriage until the traumatic event after which it's been the same for 15 years.

Yes, we had a normal marriage--affectionate, sexual, etc.

Has the tragic thing that happened to her affected her in any other way than cause her not to want to have any intimacy with you?

She still hasn't completely recovered physically, but works on it. Other than that, I don't think it's affected her in any other way.

That's typical of women. What happens if you challenge her views and press on? Or do you usually just give in and accept you're wrong, tacitly or explicitly?

I've tried challenging her views, but her response is invalidating. She says there is something wrong with my memory of events or my perceptions are wrong.

But you don't have a real partner now.

No, I don't have a real partner--but it seems better than 20-30 years alone (if that were the case).

Why would your retirement be non-existent? You haven't saved for it?

I've saved as much as possible, but my income isn't very high--the kind of work I do is generally undervalued and underpaid. She earns close to 3X what I earn.

Why do you think it would devastate her?

It's not that it would devastate me--it would devastate her.

You were in your early forties/late thirties when you married her. I'm sure a person would know better than not to look for flaws like that in their prospective marriage partners' personalities by then. Why didn't you? Or did it not feel like a deal breaker at the time?

This really wasn't apparent when we were first together, at least not on a personal level. Social ills or values had a right or wrong, but it didn't occur to me that it would shift towards me, something which took many years.

Have you ever tried to resolve that issue?

No. She made it absolutely clear that it was a topic that was off-limits. Given what she had been through I didn't push the point. Edited October 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[mark clemson]

I've saved as much as possible, but my income isn't very high--the kind of work I do is generally undervalued and underpaid. She earns close to 3X what I earn.

You'll need to decide what's tolerable for you.

 

You could consider contacting divorce attorneys to ask for free 1/2 hour consults to find out what divorce might actually look like for you. It sounds like she would be paying you spousal support. That doesn't make divorce a great idea, but having a sense of likely outcomes may help your decision making process. You can get multiple consults at different attorneys to shop around and get your questions answered. Obviously you don't want to let her know that you are doing this.

 

It would be fairer to her to have the "can we have sex again" talk (assuming you're going to have it at all) first, but sometimes knowing the parameters BEFORE that talk can help you reason and negotiate with a clearer head.

 

I typically advise people in this situation to insist their needs be met in the marriage. However you are in a different situation since there is clearly significant trauma so insisting may not be the right approach. Aversion on her part due to the trauma is completely understandable. That said, you've also genuinely made a noble sacrifice here. 15 years is a LOT of sacrifice and you're only human.

 

Very strongly suggest that IF you decide to have the "can we have sex again" talk you think through the likely possible responses and be prepared for each one. In your case (as in many cases) this is literally one of the most important negotiations you're likely to have anytime soon. So, you need to understand what you want, how she might respond (various options) and what you're willing to do, give up, start, end, etc based on those possible responses. What are some plausible alternatives that might work? Think you would need to really sit down and have it all thought through as much as possible. That is why, IF divorce would be on the table, you need to know from attorneys how it might go.

 

I'm not suggesting you divorce, but IF that comes up be very careful - the D-word is not something to throw around lightly in a marriage. The flip side is that an answer of "No" might change to an answer of "I'll try" if the serious prospect of divorce is raised. However, the answer might also change to "sure, let's divorce". You never know.

 

Since significant trauma was at the root of this, you should seriously consider working with a professional with genuine expertise in this sort of thing if you try to re-engage intimacy.

[Mr. Lucky]

No. She made it absolutely clear that it was a topic that was off-limits.

 

Given the time you've put in to help her recovery and her unwillingness to see any part of your side, don't think anyone would judge you harshly if you walked away. Sometimes life is about choosing the better of two bad options...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Beendaredonedat]

I think YOU should get your own personal therapy, Op. You need help in figurin out why you think so little of YOURSELF that you would go 15 years of platonic companionship instead of a mutual, loving, attraction to one another.

 

You are codependent to the nth degree and you need help in overcoming your dependency on your frigid wife who brow beats you.

 

Once you've had your own therapy perhaps you will get the courage to ask your wife to go to marital and psychosexual counseling with you and if she won't go, then you will have formed the confidence you now lack to leave her and find a good woman who will be your life companion and your lover as well.

 

Get the therapy, you will be glad you did.

[carhill]

If there is no longer non-sexual physical and emotional intimacy, just file. I get the sexual trauma part, that's devastating, but if she's showing no appreciation, affection and simple human decency to her husband she's got to go. Don't talk about divorce, fuggetabout that. List your boundaries of behavior and what you need from your spouse. If no joy, service from the sheriff will be her indication that she's no longer welcome in your life. Here's a hint: Women do this all the time to men. In fact, women file for most of the divorces in America. Learn from them. They're really smart about getting what they want from life and from men. Use it. Welcome to LS and good luck!

[DKT3]

As long as you fear life will be worse you will change nothing.

 

I would think that any normal woman would assume if she hasn't had sex with her husband in 15 years that he isnt getting it from somewhere. Has it not been one conversation in 15 years?

[elaine567]

He has no money if he leaves, his wife earns 3X his salary and no doubt they have a nice lifestyle which would end for him the minute he leaves.

He knows his capability of finding a new companion/wife at 58 is about nil. He will have no game and being celibate for 15 years will have done nothing for his self esteem.

Maybe if in a previous life he was a player or "good with the ladies" he may have a chance of finding a new woman if he regains his mojo, but otherwise probably not.

 

I see no point in trying to reestablish intimacy, it never seems to work, even in women who have not been raped and half murdered.

I think she is as good as one would expect being the survivor of such a horrendous attack. "Recovery" was probably never possible.

The fact she can put one foot in front of the other every day and makes a good living is a bonus.

I guess she is still pretty angry inside hence her unwillingness to take the OP seriously or show much affection. She may in fact on some level blame him for not being able to protect her and keep her safe,,,

 

The time for leaving was probably 15 years ago, sorry to say...

[FMW]

OP, it seems you are imprisoning yourself as many people do at this stage in life, fearful of being alone and of losing some of your financial security. So you stay stuck in an unhappy situation.

 

You have to decide what's more important to you.

 

I divorced after 23 years and my xH got a big chunk of my retirement funds. You wouldn't walk away from your marriage empty handed. Go talk to an attorney and get a clearer picture of how things might be split.

 

If you fear being alone and would rather stay unhappy just to ensure companionship, then that's an issue you need to work on.

[Lotsgoingon]

The fact that you guys don't fight just means your problems go unaddressed and underground. Fighting over important goals and issues can be extremely helpful for a couple--as long as there is mutual listening and no nasty name calling.

 

Some disagreement and conflict is how we learn what the other person really wants and values, where there limits are. Disagreement and working through differences (which can only have when you FACE the differences) is how a couple brings air and light into a relationship.

 

You guys both seem like you're in trauma. Both of you are frozen, paralyzed, closed, destructively silent--all the while telling yourselves the child-like fib that everything is OK.

 

You had the right years ago to insist on your wife getting treatment for the horrible thing that happened to her. A year after this bad thing happened ... two years ... at very most three years ... that was a time to insist she seek some kind of treatment--and insist that she let you nurture her. And if she resisted, that would have been a worthy fight, worthy of a prolonged fight. You would have been doing what so many wives do when they raise a fuss and insist that their husband go to the ER to report his chest pains.

 

You have options. I hope you can see them. There is so much more to life--so much that is vibrant and alive and vital--than the life you're living right now.

[giotto]

Chiming in a bit late here... of course, there is the "for better for worse" vow, so I can see why you are staying, morally. On the other hand, you are suffering too. My deal breaker would be my spouse being invested in the marriage and trying to fix the issue together. So, to me that would be constant IC, with the aim to resolve the issue so you can have a future together.

 

I'm a similar situation as in my wife has an issue, but she is not prepared to fix it by doing extensive therapy. This signals one thing to me: I don't care about our marriage and our relationship.

 

So, I'm leaving.

[amarriedguy]

First I'd like to say--thank you all for such thoughtful responses. Choosing this forum was a shot in the dark; apparently my instincts about some things is still intact.

 

My greatest resistance to either confrontation or leaving is how it would devastate my wife. I talked the other day with a friend about this. She asked why I was more concerned about my wife's feelings than my own feelings. I had no answer, and still don't have one. She also suggested, like another poster here, that I meet with an attorney. Even if it's just for information, it makes divorce seem so real, and I'm not sure I can do that--yet.

 

I suppose we're both conflict avoidant. For me, I know that it's from my own past--my father was an angry aggressive jerk. For her, no idea at all.

 

An earlier poster asked about therapy for myself. I am/have been in therapy--very good therapy--but it's only in the past month that I've introduced this topic. Obviously, therapy can only be as good as what a client talks about. I can only hope that these different sources of information/observation will help me make a decision.

[giotto]

My greatest resistance to either confrontation or leaving is how it would devastate my wife.

 

I understand that. We've been together 33 years and the separation has devastated her. I do feel like I should just stay and look after her, but I would be doing all the work, since she doesn't want to be fixed and she has stopped the sex life too. I know that this stems from her illness, but she is a rational human being who is still able to understand and take action...

[pepperbird]

What I am going to advise will fly in the face of much of what has been posted already.

 

Your wife was highly traumatized by what happened to her, which is to be expected. Coming back from that takes a long time, if it can even happen at all. It's also highly possible that your wife had remained in "fight or flight" mode all this time.

 

Look, if you;re going to walk away from your marriage, at least give it one last shot. Sit your wife down and talk to her about how unhappy you have been. Let her know the depth of it. After all, you say yourself that you are conflict avoidant. She can't read your mind, and you can't read hers.

 

If she is living with PTSD, it can take along time to recover, and the triggers may be all around. My husband triggers if he sees clutter etc.

 

I would ask her about the attack, not for details but more how she felt. I have a feeling it wasn't about sex, it was about power, and that may be even harder for her to face. Was the man who attacked her put in prsonn, or it he still out there?

[central]

Divorce her. Get a good lawyer, and get alimony and a fair division of assets. I don't see any other viable solution if you don't want to remain miserable.

[amarriedguy]

Just to be clear. It wasn't actually repeated rapes, though she experienced it that way. I watched her--helplessly--close to death several times, so to talk about the specific details is a nightmare for me. So the closest way for me to describe it is to say multiple rapes and attempted murder.

 

 

It certainly was about power, the loss of body integrity. My reluctance to talk with her about it is re-traumatizing her. And I have to admit--and this is a very uncomfortable admission--that after 15 years I'm no longer physically attracted to her.

 

 

But in principle I agree with your point--one last try is appropriate and only fair...

[S2B]

Since the marriage has left you feeling empty and unsatisfied for 15 years it’s time to consider that you COULD be living a fulfilling life.

 

She could have been offering you more affection and intimacy (without sex) - but she didn’t and won’t.

 

If she earns three times the money she will likely owe you spousal support and the assets will be divided. Ask for more than half so when it settles you get close to half.

 

It’s possible with a clear discussionshe will understand she isn’t meeting your basic needs in the marriage. She likely wants to feel safe above all else - you can still do that moving forward even if you divorce her.

 

Gently telling her that you need more than what the marriage has offered isn’t unreasonable - stick with how YOU feel - and what you wish to change and gain by divorcing (intimacy).

 

Life is too short... since you aren’t happy (15 years!) get divorced! Allow yourself the opportunity to explore a close relationship with someone new. Certainly she can’t argue that she’s left you feeling abandoned within the marriage?

 

 

If you want a partner you can feel intimacy and close to with love and affection - your best odds are to divorce her.

[Rayce]

My reluctance to talk with her about it is re-traumatizing her. And I have to admit--and this is a very uncomfortable admission--that after 15 years I'm no longer physically attracted to her.

 

 

But in principle I agree with your point--one last try is appropriate and only fair...

 

I am not understanding this point that you make about being reluctant to talk with her about what happened. Does she have anyone to talk to about it? As a survivor of horrific events myself I find that the one thing that helps me the most is being able to talk about it. It's like the more I can talk about it the more relief I can find... I feel for you both and hope you can both find some peace.... that might be traveling down separate roads going forward.

[amarriedguy]

I am not understanding this point that you make about being reluctant to talk with her about what happened. Does she have anyone to talk to about it? As a survivor of horrific events myself I find that the one thing that helps me the most is being able to talk about it. It's like the more I can talk about it the more relief I can find... I feel for you both and hope you can both find some peace.... that might be traveling down separate roads going forward.

 

 

I'm not positive, but I'm almost certain she doesn't--and hasn't--really talked with anyone about this. Immediately after the events she did meet with a therapist for a few months, which she said helped her, but whatever they talked about must have been pretty limited.

[carhill]

If she wanted to divorce you you'd be served today and if you think she's cold now watch out. Let some other KISA salve her wounds. She'll be fine.

Edited October 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

Have I got this right?

Your wife got raped and in 15 years you have never brought up the subject of the rape with her to offer her your support?

[amarriedguy]

Have I got this right?

Your wife got raped and in 15 years you have never brought up the subject of the rape with her to offer her your support?

 

 

I'm sorry about the confusion, but I really don't want to describe what actually happened to her--it's just too painful.

 

 

 

She experienced it as multiple rapes, but it wasn't in fact--it felt that way to her, it's how she conceptualizes it. As for support... I stopped working for 12 months to care for her 24/7, then only worked part time for another two years to care for her.

 

 

I was constantly, and still am, emotionally supportive of her in every way. I followed her lead as to whether or not she wanted to actually talk about what happened, and eventually she didn't want to anymore.

 

 

I put my life on hold for years to care for her, so I think I have been very supportive.