Sexless Affectionless Marriage for Many Many Years

[elaine567]

I'm sorry about the confusion, but I really don't want to describe what actually happened to her--it's just too painful.

She experienced it as multiple rapes, but it wasn't in fact--it felt that way to her, it's how she conceptualizes it..

 

No-one here has asked you to describe the event in detail, as it is actually moot.

Suffice to say she experienced great trauma, the after effects she is still suffering from today.

 

The confusion arose as you said,

"I'm almost certain she doesn't--and hasn't--really talked with anyone about it"

[amarriedguy]

No-one here has asked you to describe the event in detail, as it is actually moot.

Suffice to say she experienced great trauma, the after effects she is still suffering from today.

 

The confusion arose as you said,

"I'm almost certain she doesn't--and hasn't--really talked with anyone about it"

 

 

Ah...now I'm the one who was confused... so for a while she did talk with me about it. Much of our conversation about it became more about her day-to-day physical needs; the talk about her rage and emotional suffering died out after a while. It was my feeling that she was burying her feelings, but I never would have forced her to talk about it if she didn't wish to.

 

 

 

And she did briefly talk with a therapist about it. I know she tried to talk with her closest friend about it, but that went badly and their relationship was damaged for many years. As I understand it, her friend took issue with the use of the word "rape"--as it factually wasn't that.

[Rayce]

That is so heartbreaking but unless she herself wants to heal it will never happen no matter how supportive you are. It sounds like you have been a good hubby to her making a lot of sacrifice along the way. She has learned how to cope with it all by being closed off and now you are the one who is left hurting. No one deserves that. It sounds like you need to have a real heart to heart talk. Maybe a weekend couple thing with some sort of counselor to help guide you both? It's just an idea... again wishing you both peace.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Rayce

[amarriedguy]

That is so heartbreaking but unless she herself wants to heal it will never happen no matter how supportive you are. It sounds like you have been a good hubby to her making a lot of sacrifice along the way. She has learned how to cope with it all by being closed off and now you are the one who is left hurting. No one deserves that. It sounds like you need to have a real heart to heart talk. Maybe a weekend couple thing with some sort of counselor to help guide you both? It's just an idea... again wishing you both peace.

 

 

Thank you for your well wishes...

Yes, it is absolutely heartbreaking... I loved her so profoundly, so completely, I never thought about anyone else, never glanced at another woman...even writing this brings me to tears.

 

 

But the catch is--I feel so horrible saying it--after all these years I'm just no longer attracted to her...at all... I feel so completely and utterly trapped--it's just a daily misery.

 

 

But again, thank you for your wishes of peace...

[S2B]

If you feel alone now - while in the marriage... what’s so bad about actually being on your own to find a more compatible partner?

 

When it’s clear that two people aren’t any longer a good match - I don’t understand why they don’t end it.

 

Just end it knowing you can be happier knowing you’re not relying on a partner to add beauty to your life - but they just don’t.

 

Heck, being on my own has been awesome... I am happy all on my own - anyone else around is a bonus - but I don’t rely on them to make me happy. That comes from within.

 

I was with my exH 27 years.

 

But if I was married and my spouse wasn’t meeting my basic needs - heck yes i would end it. Life is to short to be living in misery... whether it’s yours or someone else’s misery. As a side note - it’s different when it’s someone else’s misery and they are ACTIVELY working in getting past what makes them miserable - but she’s not - so there is your answer.

[BettyDraper]

Would your wife be interested in marriage counseling?

[Lotsgoingon]

Yes, would she be willing to go into marriage counseling?!!!

 

Marriage counseling is as good an idea as any because both of you are shut down, closed. Indeed, I don't counsel you to leave or at least not immediately because you seem as blocked and frozen as she is ...

 

You are as traumatized, almost, as she is.

 

Leaving just leaves you a single traumatized person. You won't necessarily be any more liberated than you are now. So, you two might as well work on things together. Here's the point, though, if you can get her to go to MC, you HAVE to speak up and bring up the huge elephant around which you have gingerly lived your lives--you have to be willing to do that.

 

I think researchers and the mental health folks know a tons more about PTSD and trauma than they did even 15 years ago. A friend who saw her rapist on the street got a lot of help with EMDR.

 

Can you move this issue to the top of your agenda in therapy? And yes, you and your therapist need to have the discussion of how this did NOT land at the top of your agenda. This can be a breakthrough moment for you--and hopefully as a result, for her!

 

It sounds like you are awakening ... If you want to speed things up, try therapy (has to be a great therapist) 2x a week for a few weeks.

[giotto]

I have no advice for you. Whatever you do, it will be wrong, for you or for her...

[SummerDreams]

I am sorry for what both you and your wife went through and still suffering from it. But in your words I see only what YOU feel about her, what YOU are thinking, how much YOU don't want to hurt her. I honestly don't see anything about how your wife feels. This tells me that communication is non existant in the relationship. Most women LOVE to talk about feelings, to analyze what they feel and try to explain it. It seems your wife has gone into robotic mode and doesn't feel many things anymore, she just acts. This is a sad thing but I have to say that the feeling I have from your wife is that she has been selfish, and I totally understand why, it's normal that victims behave like this. But after 15 years, and I want to be as sensitive as possible here, I think she has reached a point where her lack of actions are to blame for her not getting better. I mean, if you break your leg and you don't go to the doctor, you will forever not be able to walk and others will forever have to help you. At the beginning people who love you will probably feel sorry for you and help you, but as time goes by and you refuse to go to the doctor and DO SOMETHING for your broken leg, I think that your loved ones have the right to be frustrated about it and consider leaving you. I mean, your wife had a traumatic experience, but so do many other people in the world, and most of them get help and try to live a life as normally as possible. Your wife didn't take all these required steps in order for her to feel better and at the same time she dragged you as well to this bad place where she chose to stay and you can't do anything about it. I don't know, maybe I sound insensitive, but my way of thinking is that if someone doesn't want to be helped, nobody can convince them to do so. Your wife does not want to be helped. She wants to remain in the state of "half-victim" that she chose to be, not considering how YOU feel. All that being said, why does she get to be selfish and you can't do so? Why do you consider that a divorce would devastate her and she doesn't consider that 15 years of non-affectionate marriage has devastated you?

 

 

I think you should make the steps and leave. No talking even needed. I am sure deep inside she must know you would go eventually. She is not stupid. You leaving is the most logical thing to do, and she expects you to do so.

 

 

 

And lastly: You should visit a therapist and focus on why you don't love and care for yourself. Trust me in this and please do it.

 

 

I wish you the best, sorry if my english is not good, but I feel for you because you are my mom's age. Please do something for YOURSELF now.

[giotto]

I am sure deep inside she must know you would go eventually. She is not stupid. You leaving is the most logical thing to do, and she expects you to do so.

 

 

I doubt it very much, if she is like my wife. She feels entitled to keep her husband a prisoner, because of what happened to her. For better for worse... remember? She will think he is leaving her for sex. This is what my wife thinks of me, after keeping me celibate for 2 years now. I'm sure you remember my post... not wanting to compromise and not wanting to seek therapy, what options do you have? But he will be the villain in his wife's eyes...

[elaine567]

When there is real mental illness or emotional damage involved then I am not sure if "selfish" is the correct term to use, as the mentally ill are often not usually in complete control of their thoughts, feelings, emotions and actions.

They often do not have the same drive or motivation to improve their lot.

That is not due to contrariness or wanting to play the victim or weakness or selfishness that is due to their illness.

The OPs wife i guess is not denying sex due to pure selfishness but due to the fact she went through an extremely traumatic event and was damaged by it, probably permanently.

 

Yes, some people who break their leg may make a full recovery with the help of a doctor and a physical therapist, but others will still be left permanently damaged, some even unable to walk...

We live in an age where we like to think anything is possible, everything can be mended, but it is not always true.

Even with the best therapy in the world and with excellent motivation on her part, the OP's wife may still be in the same state... nothing is guaranteed.

[Mr. Lucky]

Even with the best therapy in the world and with excellent motivation on her part, the OP's wife may still be in the same state... nothing is guaranteed.

 

Agreed with the caveat she owes her marriage - and herself - a legitimate effort to address this. If she seeks "the best therapy" with no resulting benefit, husband and wife have a legitimate basis for decisions going forward. Right now both stuck in a rather hellish limbo...

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

Even with the best therapy in the world and with excellent motivation on her part, the OP's wife may still be in the same state... nothing is guaranteed.

 

I get all you say and I agree with you... but the OP's wife could try some therapy again? At least try. She would be showing her husband she cares and she is committed to the marriage. I find it rather unsettling they never talked about the demise of their sexual relationship in 15 years...

[elaine567]

Agreed with the caveat she owes her marriage - and herself - a legitimate effort to address this. If she seeks "the best therapy" with no resulting benefit, husband and wife have a legitimate basis for decisions going forward. Right now both stuck in a rather hellish limbo...

 

I guess it may not be a "hellish limbo" for her.

She has found a safe and secure niche.

 

Raking up the past may make it hellish for her though, hence why I guess it is buried deep and not spoken of.

[elaine567]

... but the OP's wife could try some therapy again? At least try. She would be showing her husband she cares and she is committed to the marriage. I find it rather unsettling they never talked about the demise of their sexual relationship in 15 years...

 

I guess as I said to Mr Lucky, therapy will make her relive the past and that is probably the last thing she wants or needs.

She needs to be able to put one foot in front of the other every day, she doesn't probably need sex.

 

Like many women in this type of relationship where sex is off the menu, I guess the lack of affection is due to not wanting to give her husband the "wrong idea" and being then cornered into sex...

 

The traumatic nature of this, I guess, stifled any conversation about his needs.

"I have been raped and half killed by some maniac, and you want a BJ... really???? "

[giotto]

I guess it may not be a "hellish limbo" for her.

She has found a safe and secure niche.

 

If she is not challenged, she will remain in her safe niche. Before I separated from my wife, I said "let's wait a bit and see what happens"... she accepted the offer immediately, because it reinforced the status quo and her security. She didn't think one second about me. The right answer should have been: I'd like to do that, but you are unhappy, so I'm not accepting your offer I'll let you go so you can be happy in your life.

 

Guess what? I was unhappy and I could not go through with it at the end.

[giotto]

The traumatic nature of this, I guess, stifled any conversation about his needs.

"I have been raped and half killed by some maniac, and you want a BJ... really???? "

 

As I said above, she should recognised the fact the her husband has been sexless for 15 years and she should allow him to make a decision about his future...

 

I completely understand that for her and some women sex can be off the table for various reasons... I get it completely. But, if your are forcing your spouse to a life of celibacy, at least you should offer your partner the freedom to choose...

[carhill]

The reality is though, a man is very vulnerable when getting fellated. A woman could go Bobbit on him and bite his dick off. It's happened. OTOH, non-69 fellatio is all about the man and any sexual pleasure to the woman is in her mind only. She's 'giving'. For some that's abhorrent if they've gone off sex, affection, love, care.

 

 

 

OP, question, was the only time you were affectionate with your wife when you wanted sex? IOW, a tender kiss and embrace meant you wanted sex or was it simply a sign of your affection and love for your spouse? I've heard affection=sex a lot from women and it's so outside my personal life experience that I began to wonder if they were BS'ing me. I mean, are men really just sex-crazed animals and that's it? I've also seen women push their otherwise loving and affectionate spouses away, physically. I found that kind of shocking.

 

For men, a lot of the love, affection and intimate validation of their iives comes from their primary relationship partner or spouse. As men we don't get much love in the world. Whether it's due to cultural mores, sexual mores, societal programming, whatever, men generally don't get much outside of their primary relationship. This is very different from women. Now we could say that men don't need love, they can do without it, rugged individualists and all that, but that would be sexist, right? So, if they do need/want/desire love and can mainly receive it, or receive it at all, in their primary relationship and then that partner denies them love/care/affection/sex, it's no wonder the man gets angry, has affairs, hunts and kills animals, drives fast, and ultimately divorces the spouse. I'm not saying it's right, especially the affairs part, but it's reality. One thing MC taught me was to accept reality. I hope the OP finds such acceptance.

[amarriedguy]

I guess as I said to Mr Lucky, therapy will make her relive the past and that is probably the last thing she wants or needs. She needs to be able to put one foot in front of the other every day, she doesn't probably need sex.

 

Like many women in this type of relationship where sex is off the menu, I guess the lack of affection is due to not wanting to give her husband the "wrong idea" and being then cornered into sex...The traumatic nature of this, I guess, stifled any conversation about his needs. "I have been raped and half killed by some maniac, and you want a BJ... really???? "

 

Her silence, and my reluctance to push her on any of this, has forced me to be something of a mind reader--a role I detest. I'm quite sure she no longer wants to have sex--what I mean is that even with the best therapy in the world, I think she still wouldn't want sex. And for her to have sex with me "dutifully" feels coercive to me...

I suspect that couples counseling would merely expose my unhappiness and her unwillingness--and so would only serve to open the door to divorce. And I do hear the voices here--and my good friends--urging me to consider that option.

And yes, my needs, wishes, etc. all became back-burnered long ago...

Edited October 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

Why now at 58?

Why not at 45, 50 or 55 the "milestone" birthdays or after 5 or 10 years of no sex?

[SummerDreams]

I doubt it very much, if she is like my wife. She feels entitled to keep her husband a prisoner, because of what happened to her. For better for worse... remember? She will think he is leaving her for sex. This is what my wife thinks of me, after keeping me celibate for 2 years now. I'm sure you remember my post... not wanting to compromise and not wanting to seek therapy, what options do you have? But he will be the villain in his wife's eyes...

Yes I do remember and the difference is this couple has no kids, plus your wife did try to fix things for some period. The OP's wife has no idea (or doesn't care) that her H is not OK with no affection. I don't count sex here that much. I understand she had this terrible thing happen to her but she chose to let her husband out of it and not do anything to try to even be affectionate with him. Most women who don't want to have sex do still have feelings for their husbands, they can hug them, tell them they love them, they can have conversations etc.

 

Also with you the only thing I wanted you to admit was that you didn't leave her because of sex but because of her mental illness.How are you doing by the way?

 

 

Yes, some people who break their leg may make a full recovery with the help of a doctor and a physical therapist, but others will still be left permanently damaged, some even unable to walk...

 

I'm not talking about full rcovery, I'm talking about making the effort. I don't believe that this woman can't realize that her husband's life changed drastically after the event, that they stopped not only sex but also the normal affection giving and taking between a couple. In my eyes this woman does not show feelings for him. I understand her situation is unique but still, I see no effort to do anything about it. I don't think she doesn't know that her husband is not happy. Like I said, it seems she is in robotic mode. In fact I think that a divorce will make her get out of her comfort zone and push her to try to change things in her life. The OP has created a safe net around her where she doesn't have to try for the relationship or for her husband's needs but only for her job. But this is not healthy. A victim should not allow themselves to remain victims forever. There are so many ways nowadays to try to fix some of the damage. It's not like 1950 when a therapist would mean you are crazy. Nowadays there is therapy, there is medicine, there is support with support groups, even through the internet etc. The victim NEEDS to do something for their life.

Edited October 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[amarriedguy]

I mean, your wife had a traumatic experience, but so do many other people in the world, and most of them get help and try to live a life as normally as possible. Your wife didn't take all these required steps in order for her to feel better and at the same time she dragged you as well to this bad place where she chose to stay and you can't do anything about it. I don't know, maybe I sound insensitive, but my way of thinking is that if someone doesn't want to be helped, nobody can convince them to do so. Your wife does not want to be helped. She wants to remain in the state of "half-victim" that she chose to be, not considering how YOU feel. All that being said, why does she get to be selfish and you can't do so? Why do you consider that a divorce would devastate her and she doesn't consider that 15 years of non-affectionate marriage has devastated you?

 

I think she has walled-off her feelings about what happened to her, and the consequences of it for her, for me, and our relationship. Since all that happened she became even more invested in her work, which I take to be a way to avoid/ignore her feelings.

I agree that she has taken no actions to get better. However, I think I share some culpability in this as I never signaled my dissatisfaction. I feel I was correct in doing so as I never wanted to drag her back through her trauma... But--surely it must have crossed her mind that my silence was intentional, that it was to protect her?

The only thing she EVER said was a year or so after the events--when she was very depressed--was that I should leave her and find someone else. But I'm not that guy; I'm not the guy who abandons his wife because she has breast cancer, or has an affair because she's pregnant...

As for my therapy... having "admitted" this to my therapist recently it has been week after week after week of trying to figure our why I ignore my feelings and needs, why I don't care for myself. And not just in my marriage, with others as well--big surprise.

Edited October 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[amarriedguy]

Why now at 58?

Why not at 45, 50 or 55 the "milestone" birthdays or after 5 or 10 years of no sex?

 

 

That is an excellent question. I just buried my feelings. I felt I had a duty to stand by her, to support her no matter what--even if that meant denying myself.

As I had mentioned earlier, she travels a lot for her work, sometimes for long periods--sometimes as long as three months away with no breaks to visit. Although I'm perfectly capable of living on my own, these lengthy absences were very difficult. Last year she "announced" even more travel plans, I asked her--quite emotionally--to not take on this additional voluntary travel. She agreed. And then, lo and behold, early this year she forwarded me her flight itineraries.

I think you can guess how I felt.

It was after that I began to look at our relationship, to look at the things I had ignored and avoided--and after about six months (OK, I'm a bit slow...) I snapped.

[elaine567]

Yes she is withdrawing even more.

Is there a reason you would prefer to stay in your home?

Business, house, garden, animals, good neighbours/friends.... etc.

Because if not, then you need to go, IMO.

Living alone is often not nearly so lonely as it can be living with an uninterested and uninvested spouse.

[pepperbird]

If she wanted to divorce you you'd be served today and if you think she's cold now watch out. Let some other KISA salve her wounds. She'll be fine.

 

 

This is really insensitive. His wife will never be "fine"