Sexless Affectionless Marriage for Many Many Years

[usa1ah]

My wife and I are in our late 50s and have been married 18 years; we have no children, by mutual decision. On the surface it would seem we have a happy marriage, but I'm completely miserable and feel alone. Let me try to explain....

 

Sounds like you are already alone. How would divorce e any different?

Edited October 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[amarriedguy]

btw, you haven't mentioned it before. was the person who did this to her brought to justice in any way?

 

 

The exact details make "justice" an imprecise term. But no, there was never any justice, compensation, or any other form of "punishment" or payment for damages. As you can imagine we were both enraged at our inability to pursue any action, but it just wasn't possible.

[amarriedguy]

That seems odd. Why can’t they figure out who did it and press charges?

 

I know. But the actual events are different from what I've described here. And as I don't want to describe what actually happened, the multiple rapes and attempted murder is a symbolic approximation to the real events. But the real events couldn't result in arrest, trial, and punishment. I'm not trying to be mysterious about this, but it was very traumatic for me as well, and giving the actual description of events is unbearable.

[usa1ah]

It wasn’t rape then what was it?

 

Sounds like something planned then went further then expected.

[amarriedguy]

It wasn’t rape then what was it?

 

Sounds like something planned then went further then expected.

 

 

I am NOT explaining what happened to her; kindly respect my wishes on this. She experienced it as a rape. It wasn't actually a rape--in the normal criminal meaning of the word. There is nothing else that you need to know.

[pepperbird]

She experienced it as a rape.

 

 

I may be wrong, but if that's how she experienced it, then it's likely you "experienced" it as one too.

 

How have you addressed the impact it has had on you? Have you taken care of yourself as well as your wife?

[NotADayGoesBy]

Look, if you;re going to walk away from your marriage, at least give it one last shot. Sit your wife down and talk to her about how unhappy you have been. Let her know the depth of it. After all, you say yourself that you are conflict avoidant. She can't read your mind, and you can't read hers.

 

I stopped here in reading the comments because I think this is excellent advice. It's hard, it's uncomfortable, there will likely be tears, but what do you have to lose by laying it all out on the table? By being completely honest and explaining that your needs aren't being met and how unhappy you are? Then you will know you did everything you could, AND she was fully aware of how you felt, before any changes take place.

 

In regards to her being devastated by a divorce, that may very well be. That's why you owe her one last opportunity to try to make things right. If she's not willing to do that or if you both try but it doesn't work, then you did your best. You are not responsible for her feelings after that--you are responsible for yours, and for creating a life that is worth living. No one is going to fix this for you, you have to be an active participant. Maybe she has fooled herself into thinking you're happy because you never complain. I'm conflict avoidant too, but am learning that the momentary discomfort of bringing up something upsetting is way preferable to the constant, never ending discomfort of keeping quiet.

[oldtruck]

I am NOT explaining what happened to her; kindly respect my wishes on this. She experienced it as a rape. It wasn't actually a rape--in the normal criminal meaning of the word. There is nothing else that you need to know.

 

Advice without the truth is not worth the price of the paper and ink

[healing light]

I have not read through this entire thread of responses yet, but if talk therapy did not benefit your wife, it would behoove her and your marriage to look into things like EMDR/EFT/somatic therapy, etc. that are geared toward rewiring the brain and nervous system in the face of severe trauma and PTSD so she has the best chances of integrating the memories. As a practitioner of Chinese medicine, there are even specific acupuncture styles geared toward helping to release trauma, in particular five element practitioners. You may need to think far outside of the box on this one in terms of what might help.

 

The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk is a good resource written by a trauma expert that discusses various modalities and interventions that can be used to regain a sense of normalcy and function.

 

If she is not even open or willing to continue exploring her treatment options, then I don't think you will have much of a choice but to file for divorce. If she does in fact make much more than you, you may be entitled to some type of spousal support depending on your state.

 

I don't think you sound selfish at all here, I think you sound like someone who has endured not only a sexless marriage, but an affectionateless one with a partner that never had great communication skills even before the trauma (always right? I'd understand that better if you had some kind of personality disorder and were putting her through the wringer, but in the context of most relationships where partners are of sound mind, rarely is one person "always right").

 

I think you have put in more years than the typical partner may have under similar conditions and need to start having the difficult conversations with her if you hope to salvage your marriage. This is not to minimize what she has been through, which sounds horrible and understandably has caused a great shift in her, but she needs to consider the impact on both of your emotional health when it comes to her potential recovery. No one should be expected to stay simply out of guilt when it doesn't sound like there is affection, attraction, or good communication.

[amarriedguy]

Advice without the truth is not worth the price of the paper and ink

 

 

I'm sure I must be misreading the intent of this comment. It almost seems as if you're suggesting that because I won't reveal the "true" nature of my wife's physical trauma that all advice is useless. I imagine you must have meant something very different.

[amarriedguy]

I may be wrong, but if that's how she experienced it, then it's likely you "experienced" it as one too.

 

How have you addressed the impact it has had on you? Have you taken care of yourself as well as your wife?

 

 

I think you know the answer to that one--I only take care of other people, not myself. At least, that is what I have done in the past. I'm learning, very very slowly, but I'm learning to care for myself.

[amarriedguy]

That's why you owe her one last opportunity to try to make things right. If she's not willing to do that or if you both try but it doesn't work, then you did your best.

 

 

 

Maybe she has fooled herself into thinking you're happy because you never complain. I'm conflict avoidant too, but am learning that the momentary discomfort of bringing up something upsetting is way preferable to the constant, never ending discomfort of keeping quiet.

 

 

I agree. I know that if I left and had any doubt as to whether I tried everything I would be filled with guilt. But the conflict avoidant part...that's a tough one. I know sooner or later I will need to do something, and can only hope that somehow I find the strength, the courage, to do so...

[usa1ah]

I am NOT explaining what happened to her; kindly respect my wishes on this. She experienced it as a rape. It wasn't actually a rape--in the normal criminal meaning of the word. There is nothing else that you need to know.

 

This is fine but what was going on before it happened could also be part of the cause of what has been going on.

 

No details are needed. You know what happened, think about what went on as a whole. The sexless marriage is not just from what happened, it is from everything beforehand up to and including what happened. It’s your own fault it has continued. It has been your choice. Either continue to live with it or ask for a open marriage or divorce and find someone else.

[amarriedguy]

This is fine but what was going on before it happened could also be part of the cause of what has been going on.

 

No details are needed. You know what happened, think about what went on as a whole. The sexless marriage is not just from what happened, it is from everything beforehand up to and including what happened. It’s your own fault it has continued. It has been your choice. Either continue to live with it or ask for a open marriage or divorce and find someone else.

 

 

Before the incidents we had a strong loving and sexual relationship. The sex, quite reasonably, stopped immediately after the events--it took her body about three years to heal. And with that affection continued, but only in ways that wouldn't lead to greater intimacy: hand-holding, hugging, kiss on the lips; but nothing more. Would the relationship have changed without these events? Who knows--there was no evidence at the time to suggest that.

Allowing this to continue without comment was my choice; I entirely accept my responsibility in this, and always have. She made her choices, and I chose to be silent. But "fault"? I find this a strange choice of words--I am not finger-pointing or assigning blame, but seeking objective views on my situation and how to proceed.

[Mr. Lucky]

Allowing this to continue without comment was my choice; I entirely accept my responsibility in this, and always have. She made her choices, and I chose to be silent. But "fault"? I find this a strange choice of words--I am not finger-pointing or assigning blame, but seeking objective views on my situation and how to proceed.

 

Are you more comfortable with 'cause and effect'?

 

There's an inherent contradiction between having something be so important to you you're considering divorce over it vs. 15 years of silence on the subject with the very person that could affect the outcome.

 

If sexuality is so (understandably) core to your values, why no discussion with here before you've arrived at the edge of the marital cliff?

 

Mr. Lucky

[SummerDreams]

I don't see the point to blame the OP. 15 years may be many for some, not many for others. No need to understand why he stayed this period of time. The important thing is that now he is starting to realize that his life is not over and he can be the one who makes the decisions about himself. He starts to feel strong in order to take care of himself, something he doesn't seem to know and it's important he learns it. Why do you have to blame him for the past?

 

OP, my mom, who is a very wise woman, when I was making a mistake and I could not stop it, she often said to me "at any point you stop making a mistake, you got something to gain" (sorry can't translate better). Now you stop thinking about why you stayed, why you didn't say anything before, why you tolerated. Just make your way out. Your new life is waiting. Best wishes.

[usa1ah]

Before the incidents we had a strong loving and sexual relationship. The sex, quite reasonably, stopped immediately after the events--it took her body about three years to heal. And with that affection continued, but only in ways that wouldn't lead to greater intimacy: hand-holding, hugging, kiss on the lips; but nothing more. Would the relationship have changed without these events? Who knows--there was no evidence at the time to suggest that.

Allowing this to continue without comment was my choice; I entirely accept my responsibility in this, and always have. She made her choices, and I chose to be silent. But "fault"? I find this a strange choice of words--I am not finger-pointing or assigning blame, but seeking objective views on my situation and how to proceed.

 

Your fault for not speaking up for your needs for 15 years.

[usa1ah]

With out details, can she in anyway hold you responsible for what happened to her?

[Mr. Lucky]

The important thing is that now he is starting to realize that his life is not over and he can be the one who makes the decisions about himself.

 

Except he's making decisions affecting her also, all over a problem so big ... that he hasn't discussed it with her in a decade or more. Not trying to blame, but there's a carry-forward to this dynamic that will make itself known to both of them.

 

Doesn't this issue deserve one long-delayed heart-to-heart talk?

 

Mr. Lucky

[elaine567]

I have a feeling there is too much resentment built up in the OP to have "the talk" that may result in trying to actually fix things. He is scared to go down that path in case it ruins his plans to leave. If he does that he will probably get caught up again in the marriage.

A marriage he has made his mind up to leave, if only he can pluck up the courage to actually go.

It is therefore he feels in his best interests to shun and dehumanise his wife so he can justify pulling the plug.

The last thing he wants in order to do that, is to try and rebuild bonds now

Making her "human" again may just prolong the agony...

 

BUT 18 years is a long time and the future "on the outside" may not be so rosy for a 58yo man with a limited salary.

It is a very hard decision he is facing and not one he can remake easily if it all goes pearshaped.

[amarriedguy]

I have a feeling there is too much resentment built up in the OP to have "the talk" that may result in trying to actually fix things. He is scared to go down that path in case it ruins his plans to leave. If he does that he will probably get caught up again in the marriage.

A marriage he has made his mind up to leave, if only he can pluck up the courage to actually go.

It is therefore he feels in his best interests to shun and dehumanise his wife so he can justify pulling the plug.

The last thing he wants in order to do that, is to try and rebuild bonds now

Making her "human" again may just prolong the agony...

 

BUT 18 years is a long time and the future "on the outside" may not be so rosy for a 58yo man with a limited salary.

It is a very hard decision he is facing and not one he can remake easily if it all goes pearshaped.

 

Yes, I do feel resentment, but also compassion; I thought that was clear. Yes, I'm responsible for not talking to her about this, which I did to avoid taking her back to the emotional trauma, but then she'd never broached the subject either. Was it a mistake on my part? Probably.

I don't have definitive plans to leave, I haven't decided what I want to do, so there are no plans to ruin. I'm not aware that I have de humanized my wife; I suppose I have shunned her in a sense. But as I have lost all attraction towards her, not surprising after so many years, I'm ambivalent about rebuilding bonds with her.

There's nothing easy or simple about this; if it was simple I wouldn't have posted anything here, taking my chances in a public forum.

[AMarriedMan]

Yes, we had a normal marriage--affectionate, sexual, etc.

She still hasn't completely recovered physically, but works on it. Other than that, I don't think it's affected her in any other way.

 

I'm sorry this happened to her and indirectly to you.

 

I've tried challenging her views, but her response is invalidating. She says there is something wrong with my memory of events or my perceptions are wrong.

 

I would find that sort of thing as damaging as the no sex part.

 

No, I don't have a real partner--but it seems better than 20-30 years alone (if that were the case).

 

Look, you're 58. The older you get, the more women begin to outnumber men. To the extent an older woman wants a man in her life, the less discriminating she will have to be in terms of things like wealth, income or dazzling looks of her partner.

 

I've saved as much as possible, but my income isn't very high--the kind of work I do is generally undervalued and underpaid. She earns close to 3X what I earn.

 

If that is the case, you would be likely to be able to collect alimony depending on your state.

 

It's not that it would devastate me--it would devastate her.

 

Really? While I don't think you should pressure her for sex or use the possibility of walking away as a bargaining tool in any shape or form given that your lack of a sex life is caused by serious trauma, the way she invalidates your perspective when you disagree is something she ought to work on. That's no way to treat a loved one. That's something you two should work on.

 

This really wasn't apparent when we were first together, at least not on a personal level. Social ills or values had a right or wrong, but it didn't occur to me that it would shift towards me, something which took many years.

 

Do you mean that you wife was opinionated and headstrong when you first got together but it didn't seem likely she'd ever be that way in regards to you?

 

No. She made it absolutely clear that it was a topic that was off-limits. Given what she had been through I didn't push the point.

 

I believe that's the right choice. But what I do believe is that in addition to the strain your lack of a sex life causing your marriage, her way of invalidating you as a person if something she has no right to do an expect you to just take it.

[amarriedguy]

I know what I need to do.

1. I need to talk to my wife about the lack of love and sex in our marriage, even though I'm no longer attracted to her.

2. I need to very strongly urge her to have her own therapy.

3. I need to insist we have couples counseling.

4. Based on the outcome of the previous I need to decide whether to stay or divorce.

 

It's only fair to her; it's only right for myself--I need to know that I have tried everything before leaving her.

 

Yet I'm completely frozen, at a total standstill. I won't lie: at the moment I don't have the courage to take any of these actions.

 

And I admit...my lack of decision, lack of courage makes me fantasize about having an affair. But I won't. I would never do that--even if I had the faintest idea of how I would go about that--it's just not me.

 

There is no possible advice to create courage or decisiveness; I am merely expressing my current state of mind.

[DKT3]

Unfortunately most of the Male posters come here fearful of the impact leaving will have. Its common...however those of us who overcome those fears see it's not the dead end we viewed it as.

 

It took me 8 months to reach the conclusion that my marriage needed to end, another 6 to actually set a plan into motion.

 

what I dont get in your situation is you aren't attracted to your spouse and dont really seem to want to stay married...so in your mind what's the best case scenario?

[DKT3]

Double post....