Watercolors Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I think people can be divided into two categories: those who apologize and those who don't apologize. So, if you are friends with someone, and they don't apologize for doing/saying something that creates conflict, is is worthwhile to "call them out" or confront them or do you let the balance of power slide in their favor (I think) by ignoring their behavior. I'm torn, because a new woman friend has been really mean to me the few times we've hung out and I tried addressing with her already how her mean behavior makes me feel, and instead of apologizing she deflects and tries to put the focus/blame on *me* as the cause of her behavior. We're both nearly 50 so this seems very high school-ish mean-girl behavior to me. I was raised to apologize to a person if they tell me that my words/actions hurt their feelings, even if I don't like them or if I disagree with them. Out of respect for their feelings. Am I a doormat? Should I stop apologizing? I haven't apologized to this mean woman yet. Right now after her latest mean-girl escapade I'm just ignoring her on social media (which is where we mostly communicate w/each other). Is this a battle worth choosing -- calling out the non-apologizer? I've learned over the years that you can't force anyone to change, even when you use compassion and respect to point out how their behavior or words were hurtful. If they don't respect or like me, they just won't apologize. Should I always assume then, that if a person won't apologize it's because they just don't respect me enough or care enough about my feelings? Good friends rarely fight with each other and when they do, apologies flow easy between friends. But as I get older, I still struggle with how to gauge whether or not I should stand up for myself with people who are, for lack of a better term, a-holes to me. Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Not a battle worth fighting. She can't see how toxic she is. Let your actions speak for you & keep your distance. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 Not a battle worth fighting. She can't see how toxic she is. Let your actions speak for you & keep your distance. Isn't walking away giving her more power though? I can't help but think she knows how toxic her behavior is, since she's acted mean towards me multiple times. This last time, she wrote some very hurtful comments in a message to me and when I let her know she hurt my feelings, her response was to pick-apart what I had written first, instead of just plain apologize for hurting my feelings. So, that tells me she really doesn't respect my feelings or me as a person. Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Power over what / who? You won't be there. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 Power over what / who? You won't be there. Power over me and our friendship, if I let her get away with being constantly snarky to me without doing anything to thwart it. No, if I ignore her online I won't be there. But it irritates me that she gets to be snarky to me, and by me doing nothing to call her out on her snarkiness, she a) won't change and respect my feelings and b) if I continued being friends with this woman, it obv. would be one-sided with me being the only one who cares. So, maybe I should just let this one fade into oblivion...? Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 there won't be a friendship. The consequence of her bad behavior is that you are gone out of her life. You tried talking. That didn't work. What else is there, other than leaving? When you stay you do give her power over your life. If you disappear & she chases you just say look over the years you hurt me; when I told you about it you were unrepentant. I'm done. Have a nice life. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 there won't be a friendship. The consequence of her bad behavior is that you are gone out of her life. You tried talking. That didn't work. What else is there, other than leaving? When you stay you do give her power over your life. If you disappear & she chases you just say look over the years you hurt me; when I told you about it you were unrepentant. I'm done. Have a nice life. Fair enough. And you're right. If I stay in this friendship, she will continue to be snarky to me online and in person. I really don't know what purpose I serve in her life either, if she isn't willing to apologize to me when she knows what she says or does hurts my feelings. I'm disappointed because I thought she would become a good friend. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I'm a little different to you: I believe apologies should be genuine - so I don't apologise if I think I've done nothing wrong. However, I do thoroughly examine my actions if someone says I hurt them. That said, if her rudeness is ongoing - as opposed to a one off thing, I agree that you need to ditch her as a friend. Don't even waste your breath discussing it with her. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 I'm a little different to you: I believe apologies should be genuine - so I don't apologise if I think I've done nothing wrong. However, I do thoroughly examine my actions if someone says I hurt them. That said, if her rudeness is ongoing - as opposed to a one off thing, I agree that you need to ditch her as a friend. Don't even waste your breath discussing it with her. basil67, if a friend told you that you hurt their feelings, does that mean you wouldn't apologize if you disagreed with them? How do you handle it, when a friend tells you something you did or said has hurt them or bothered them? I agree with you that apologies should be genuine. I think it's lame to just apologize to someone so they stop complaining, just to placate them. That's not a good apology. It always will come back to bite the faker anyway. I also think, if a friend says to you, "Hey you hurt my feelings," why not just apologize? Why not just respect the friend's feelings and apologize? What's disingenuous about respecting a friend's feelings enough to apologize? She seems to be the type of person who likes to project this image of social popularity online; hence her 2,000+ FB friends. She's always adding people. I met her through a FB group that we are both members of. We hung out a handful of times and mainly communicate through social media. I confided in her regarding my terrible living situation and she's just responded with snarkiness, rather than empathy or support. Instead of a response like "wow, I feel for you that has to be a hard situation," she'd respond with things like "...awkward. You're just a passing circumstance anyway. Who cares." (Since I'm only temporarily living with this person) I thought that comment was totally insensitive and rude and told her as such, and she proceeded to pick apart my hurt response and try to deflect it back on to me as me being too sensitive etc., Meanwhile, she knows I've essentially been this woman's maid and housekeeper, feeding her cat, keeping her house clean, doing her laundry for her b/c she won't leave her bedroom, buying her groceries for her. This woman is so "off" she won't even deposit my rent checks. And it's giving me a ton of anxiety living with her and I mistakenly thought it would be fine to confide in this new friend b/c she knows this woman I'm living with (I don't know how well they know each other as both are new to me in my life). Anyway, she's not worth my time and effort anymore. I can't be friends with anyone who is going to treat my feelings dismissively like that. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 An apology isn't worth anything if you have to extract it. She sounds horrible. Just stop talking to her. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I also think, if a friend says to you, "Hey you hurt my feelings," why not just apologize? Why not just respect the friend's feelings and apologize? Because an apology from me will involve the words "I was wrong. I behaved badly and I'm so sorry my actions hurt you" You'll never hear a lame "I'm sorry if I hurt you" from me. But I also go to great lengths to not hurt a friend in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I've done the I'm sorry I hurt you thing. I think sometimes we can be "right" but still hurt somebody. You hate being the person that caused the hurt but you still have to do what you have to do. I'll give a frivolous example. Say a friend gets a new outfit but it genuinely looks terrible on them -- ill fitting, color makes then sallow, highlights their worst qualities not their best. If they ask & you say no I don't like the outfit you will have hurt their feelings for which you will feel remorse but that doesn't mean you should lie or take it back. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 Because an apology from me will involve the words "I was wrong. I behaved badly and I'm so sorry my actions hurt you" You'll never hear a lame "I'm sorry if I hurt you" from me. But I also go to great lengths to not hurt a friend in the first place. Ok, fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 I've done the I'm sorry I hurt you thing. I think sometimes we can be "right" but still hurt somebody. You hate being the person that caused the hurt but you still have to do what you have to do. I'll give a frivolous example. Say a friend gets a new outfit but it genuinely looks terrible on them -- ill fitting, color makes then sallow, highlights their worst qualities not their best. If they ask & you say no I don't like the outfit you will have hurt their feelings for which you will feel remorse but that doesn't mean you should lie or take it back. I think that is a good example. You could lie to the friend and say they look great, or you could hurt their feelings by telling them your honest opinion, and then you have to apologize to the friend for your honest opinion. I think in my case, this woman has chosen to say snarky, insensitive things to me not because she's being honest but because she's being mean. Referring to me as a "passing circumstance" seems just really insensitive and mean knowing how I've been walking on eggshells every day living with this woman who has a mental illness that I wasn't told about ahead of time, so I had no idea what I got myself into choosing to temporarily live w/her. This new friend KNEW about this woman's mental illness and agoraphobic behavior and didn't even warn me ahead of time about it, or sympathize with me when I first brought it up to her about how stressful it's been for me living with this severely depressed woman. She was even texting with this severely depressed woman, almost triangulating herself, gossiping about me to her and her to me. Does that make sense? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Ugh, that's just awful. That said, as this woman has a mental illness, it's likely she can't look at her behaviour objectively. Doesn't mean that you should put up with it though Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 She's not a nice person. Walk away & don't look back. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
The Outlaw Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 If it were me, she wouldn't get the satisfaction. You didn't do anything wrong. She did. And no one that is that negative towards you is worth of any friendship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Simple.. you sleep with her BF.. ... kidding You stop being her friend, she is a new friend and one you brought this up with her, at this point it's time to stop being friends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) She's not a nice person. Walk away & don't look back. I know you're right. She's shown me her true colors under a year into the new friendship. She's not a nice person to *me* and I don't know why. If it were me, she wouldn't get the satisfaction. You didn't do anything wrong. She did. And no one that is that negative towards you is worth of any friendship. That's what I'm confused about. What did i do wrong by confiding in her about my stressful living situation with this woman she knows. True, no one as negative as she's been with me when I've brought up how her words/actions have hurt me, is worthy of any friendship because the way she's treated me for the past 8 months has been more like a puppet than a person. Like, I get the feeling I'm there to entertain her, if that makes any sense? Simple.. you sleep with her BF.. ... kidding You stop being her friend, she is a new friend and one you brought this up with her, at this point it's time to stop being friends. Haha I've met her boyfriend and he's a giant. And he's totally not my type! Like, in any capacity! Yes, I need to walk away from this woman. She may know a boatload of people in my city (and very well will trash talk me as she has gossiped to me about other people I don't even know) who may or may not cross my path at some point. True. I tried once already to set boundaries with her about how I don't like the way she treats me, but she's refused to change. See below: This was my new friend's FB response to my confiding to her that I was starting to have panic attacks after 4 months of living with this home owner who is agoraphobic not leaving her bedroom EVER for any reason, who won't even cash my rent money orders or get her own mail, do her own grocery shopping, feed her own cat, etc.,. etc.,. Sounds so awkward. Pretty sure you are merely a passing circumstance in a much more serious set of issues. Even if it feels deeply personal So, that's when I responded that her above comment was really cold and insensitive and mean, considering she knows how much I've done for this severely depressed woman while living under her roof as her temporary roommate. See how totally dismissive her comments are. No sympathy or empathy whatsoever from her. Then she responded, coldly, again, deflecting: So you’re stressed and I’m not sure if you’re venting to me or at me. No idea how I could hurt your feelings by my comments No apology...at all. Just deflection and trying to put me down. I'm too old for this mean-girl nonsense. You know?!?! Edited October 10, 2019 by Watercolors Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I understand that her comments weren't what you were needing or looking or looking for, but they certainly weren't mean. She was just being a bit chill about it all and contemplating what the other woman was going through. She certainly didn't deserve to be told that she was cold, insensitive and mean and so her second response was quite correct. If anyone owes an apology here, it's you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MsJayne Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 People who go around being mean are always unhappy, and toxic. They have a way of poisoning your life by dumping their nasty on to you, bringing you down so that you're on the same miserable level as them. Basically they're jealous as hell of you, maybe because you're nice, maybe because you have real friends as opposed to 2000 FB friends, maybe just because....it doesn't matter the reason, she's not a friend at all. I'd cut her loose because clearly she makes you feel bad, and that's plenty of reason to give someone the heave ho out of your life. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 People who go around being mean are always unhappy, and toxic. They have a way of poisoning your life by dumping their nasty on to you, bringing you down so that you're on the same miserable level as them. Basically they're jealous as hell of you, maybe because you're nice, maybe because you have real friends as opposed to 2000 FB friends, maybe just because....it doesn't matter the reason, she's not a friend at all. I'd cut her loose because clearly she makes you feel bad, and that's plenty of reason to give someone the heave ho out of your life. Thank you MsJayne! I agree with everything you've written. Her comments were dismissive of my feelings, and felt invalidating b/c of what I'm putting up with where I live which is giving me panic attacks now after 4 months of doing all the housework, taking care of the cat, etc.,. and she never comes out of her bedroom or speaks to me, which is very stressful to be around b/c I don't know if she's going to have a psychotic break or suddenly come out and rage at me, or god knows what. Her ex-husband took her car away and their teenager is living with her ex-husband. She refuses to do inpatient or outpatient psychiatric therapy accord. to what her family members told me via text messaging. I only want people in my life who respect me and like me. I'm so tired of dealing with women like this new friend, who think its ok to be mean and not be held accountable for it. Link to post Share on other sites
crispytoast Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Send her a bag of (gummy) dicks. Comes with a note that says "Eat a Bag of Dicks". Can be sent anonymously and a glitter bomb can be added to the package. https://shipabagofdicks.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
Author Watercolors Posted October 11, 2019 Author Share Posted October 11, 2019 Send her a bag of (gummy) dicks. Comes with a note that says "Eat a Bag of Dicks". Can be sent anonymously and a glitter bomb can be added to the package. https://shipabagofdicks.com/ You're hilarious. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I understand that her comments weren't what you were needing or looking or looking for, but they certainly weren't mean. She was just being a bit chill about it all and contemplating what the other woman was going through. She certainly didn't deserve to be told that she was cold, insensitive and mean and so her second response was quite correct. If anyone owes an apology here, it's you. I agree with this. Watercolors, a friend tells you the truth. Link to post Share on other sites
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