Stepdaughter doesn't want to work and barely wants to live

[Duns]

My stepdaughter is 32 years old. One of our concerns is that she will not be financially self-sufficient after my wife and I are both dead.

 

She lives in a house owned by my wife that she will inherit on my wife's death (more about this later in this post).

 

My stepdaughter never had a paid job until recently when she acquired a part-time job with a very good organization. The job was just 7 hours per week but my wife and I felt it was a great step forward. But after three weeks, she resigned. She said bullying by a coworker was a factor but she refused to consider taking this up with HR prior to resigning. She also says she does not want a job ever again. She says she always felt she did not want to work and this brief work experience confirms it to her.

 

She has a history of mental health issues including depression, anxiety, and eating disorders. She reads a lot about mental health and self-diagnoses with additional disorders.

 

Her father displayed somewhat similar behavior. After he married, his wife (now my wife) supported him. After their divorce, he inherited a house from his mother. He lived by successively downsizing on his house to raise money. He died in his final house from alcohol abuse. My stepdaughter inherited that house.

 

Shortly after her father died, my son and his partner were evicted from their apartment. They became tenants in my daughter's inherited property. They both had mental health issues, did not work, and abused alcohol. They paid their rent to my stepdaughter with help from benefits and money from me. One day, both were found dead in their home. The autopsy on both reported sudden liver failure.

 

Now three people had died in the same house. My stepdaughter had never visited it after her father's death in it. My wife and I had managed it for her. My stepdaughter naturally hated that house. So we helped her sell it. She has been living for a while off the sale proceeds and is now in process of buying a new rent house.

 

As I mentioned, my stepdaughter lives in a house owned by my wife. My wife and I pay the expenses on that house, so all my stepdaughter currently pays for are her day-to-day expenses like grocery, travel, and entertainment, which she pays for out of the proceeds of the sale of the house she inherited from her father. She is now in process of using the remaining proceeds of the sale of the house she inherited from her father to buy a new rent house.

 

When my wife and I are dead, she believes that she can live off the income that the new rent house will bring.

 

My spreadsheet calculations indicate that after regular identifiable expenses, her net income from the new renthouse will be only one-third of the gross rental income. She refuses to believe my calculation and without producing any calculation of her own insists that net income will be 75% of gross. Even if true, she would not be able to live on such an amount alone. She seems completely disconnected from reality.

 

When my wife and I are dead, she will need to maintain the house in which she lives and the rent house. Unless she has a job, we don't see that she can do that. She tells us she will sell the two properties if necessary and live off the proceeds (this is what her father did with his inherited property). We have asked her what she will do when the money is gone. She says she will become homeless -- and die. She says she doesn't care about that as life is barely worth living anyway.

 

She refuses counseling and her doctor will not have any constructive discussions with us because of privacy laws. We are not rich and can't leave her enough resources to last her the rest of life. We feel that if she doesn't work, the final outcome will be tragic. We don't how to proceed.

[d0nnivain]

Don't proceed. Let her do whatever she's gonna do. You will be dead. She will have at least 2 pieces of property so she will have some means of support. Let her figure it out.

 

The nightmare is if your wife / her mother dies 1st & she expects you to keep subsidizing her.

 

I am terribly sorry for the loss of your beloved son & his partner.

[Duns]

Don't proceed. Let her do whatever she's gonna do. You will be dead. She will have at least 2 pieces of property so she will have some means of support. Let her figure it out.

We would wish her to figure it out now and realize she has to get a job.

 

The nightmare is if your wife / her mother dies 1st & she expects you to keep subsidizing her.

I don't understand that. I would feel just as responsible for her well-being as I do now.

 

 

I am terribly sorry for the loss of your beloved son & his partner.

Thank you. That comment means a lot to me. I grieve for them every single day and have lost the capacity to feel truly happy since their deaths.

[d0nnivain]

I struggle with the stupid, reckless, irresponsible choices made by many of my family members. I get it.

 

But here's the deal, if she is a competent adult she gets to make those choices no matter how bad they are. Understand the legal standard for competent is ridiculously low. If a person can answer 3 Qs: who am I? where am I? when am I? they are good to go. The answers don't even have to be sophisticated as in I'm D0nnivain; I'm in front of my computer & it's almost 5:00 p.m. EST. The answers can be I'm me; I'm here & it's now.

 

Read up about tough love & see if you can apply some. When push comes to shove & you are no longer there to bail her out, she will do something to help herself. Now you are just enabling her.

 

I suppose if you really care you can try setting up some type of trust that doles money out periodically & pays for the necessities & upkeep but that will require probably more money then exists.

[Duns]

I struggle with the stupid, reckless, irresponsible choices made by many of my family members. I get it.

Her choices are indeed stupid, reckless, and irresponsible (in my opinion).

 

But here's the deal, if she is a competent adult she gets to make those choices no matter how bad they are.

She is competent, well above competent in the legal sense.

 

Read up about tough love & see if you can apply some. When push comes to shove & you are no longer there to bail her out, she will do something to help herself. Now you are just enabling her.

I do understand your point. But I think that any tough love pressure on her would be fatal since she barely wants to live as it is.

I suppose if you really care you can try setting up some type of trust that doles money out periodically & pays for the necessities & upkeep but that will require probably more money then exists.

Of course, we really care! But we don't have money for a trust fund unless we could somehow convert my wife's property in which my stepdaughter lives into a trust fund. I don't know how that might be done. Do you have any suggestions for that? There might be a benefit in leaving her an income rather than the property outright but I don't have the slightest idea how to accomplish it. And where would she live if the property she currently lives in was somehow coverted into an income generation source? I just don't see how it could be done without removing her home.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Duns

[RecentChange]

Wow, sounds like so much tragedy on both sides of the family.

 

She suffers from mental illness, and her father, and step brother and his partner have all died from untreated alcoholism? Do I have that right?

 

Does she drink?

 

What a hard situation - she sounds like she needs serious mental health help.

 

Has the source of all of her issues ever been identified and addressed? Was there childhood abuse?

 

You are correct - planning to never work isn't a solid plan for living life on this planet - but you say she seems suicidal.

 

Being a threat to one's self is usually what it takes to force an issue of treatment.

 

No longer enabling her (in order to each your 30's with never working - she has been enabled), and demanding treatment may save her as well.

 

If she won't go to therapy - it would probably be very valuable for your wife and you to seek some. Sounds like there has most likely been a pattern of codependency in both families.

 

As for the house and inheritance. Yes there are ways to vest a house and assets in a trust - and then set out the manner in which the assets are distributed. You need to talk to an attorney.

[Mr. Lucky]

Read up about tough love & see if you can apply some. When push comes to shove & you are no longer there to bail her out, she will do something to help herself. Now you are just enabling her.

 

Duns, having had a child wage a 10-year battle with addiction (been clean for a year now ), I know what it's like to see someone you care about struggle.

 

But all roads eventually lead to d0nnivain's point above - continuing to fix their problems just prolongs the negative behaviors. You have to let them address their own issues, even if that means standing back while they fail.

 

I guarantee if your stepdaughter gets hungry, cold or miserable enough, she'll work. As much as you love her, you're not currently helping her.

 

Ask me how i know ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[d0nnivain]

Of course, we really care! But we don't have money for a trust fund unless we could somehow convert my wife's property in which my stepdaughter lives into a trust fund. I don't know how that might be done. Do you have any suggestions for that?

 

I have one idea how maybe that could be accomplished: sell both pieces of property & buy a multi-family home. Then she can rent some of the space & live in some of the space but you'd only pay property taxes, insurance etc. on 1 building.

 

Do speak to a qualified financial advisor & a good elder care / wills & estate's lawyer. While I don't know exactly how this will work, I do know there are mechanisms out there to make it happen.

[Duns]

Wow, sounds like so much tragedy on both sides of the family.

 

She suffers from mental illness, and her father, and stepbrother and his partner have all died from untreated alcoholism? Do I have that right?

 

Does she drink?

You have it right. No, she does not drink. She is teetotal, always has been.

 

Has the source of all of her issues ever been identified and addressed? Was there childhood abuse?

No childhood abuse at all. She had counseling years ago but the counseling seemed to make her feel worse and she will no longer go.

[Duns]

I have one idea how maybe that could be accomplished: sell both pieces of property & buy a multi-family home.

There are actually three homes. The home where my wife and I live, my wife's house where my stepdaughter lives, and my stepdaughter's soon-to-be rent house, which she is buying with the proceeds of the sale of the house she inherited from her father. We could sell the first two and buy a house large enough for the three of us. That is worth thinking about but doesn't solve the fundamental problem that unless she works, she won't be able to cope when we are both dead. We are elderly and both in rather poor health and this problem is pressing on us.

[RecentChange]

You have it right. No, she does not drink. She is teetotal, always has been.

 

No childhood abuse at all. She had counseling years ago but the counseling seemed to make her feel worse and she will no longer go.

 

Well that's great that she doesn't drink - certainly does not need that in her life!

 

If there has been no abuse or trauma it sounds like she needs a Psychiatrist rather than a counselor.

 

There is a family history of mental illness - this might be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that could be treated with medication.

 

Staying the course and continuing to enable to lack of engagement with life won't lead to happiness nor a functional adult.

[Duns]

You are correct - planning to never work isn't a solid plan for living life on this planet - but you say she seems suicidal.

 

Being a threat to one's self is usually what it takes to force an issue of treatment.

I didn't say she is "suicidal" but only that she felt life was barely worth living. She is not an immediate threat to herself. Tough love could push her over the edge though, in my opinion. So we need to tread carefully.

[RecentChange]

I fear it's a life time of treading carefully that has resulted in her failure to launch.

 

Looking for change at this point will be difficult. A work ethic should have been cultivated when she as in her early teens - I am not sure why that did not happen. Was her mental illness already taking over her life then - and she was unable to develop normal habits? Or was her family dysfunctional and failed to address these things?

 

Somehow, for some reason vital steps of development were missed. I don't know if it was nature, nurture or a combo of both - but understanding the source is that path to treatment.

 

Does she have any well adjusted siblings? Does she function normally in social settings. Does she have friends, ever have romantic relationships etc?

[Duns]

If there has been no abuse or trauma it sounds like she needs a Psychiatrist rather than a counselor.

She spent some of her own money recently on seeing a psychiatrist but she reports nothing helpful came of it. She does not deny having mental health issues but on the contrary, is constantly googling and self-diagnosing with issues.

There is a family history of mental illness - this might be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that could be treated with medication.

Yes, her behavior is similar to her deceased father's so I do think that there may be something inherited or acquired from her father. Other family members' lives may also be influencing her behavior - her stepbrother and his partner who didn't work and who died of alcohol abuse as I described and an uncle that I didn't so far mention who died of a drug overdose. Thankfully, she does not use alcohol or drugs. But maybe she is emulating their negative behavior in her own but different way. She does take medication for depression but it is not resolving the fundamental issue that she doesn't want to work and feels that life is barely worth living.

Staying the course and continuing to enable to lack of engagement with life won't lead to happiness nor a functional adult.

That's sort of the problem. How to get her to engage with life to the point where she will get a job and stay in it? However, she is far from totally disengaged disengaged from life. She does babysitting for relatives, she has worked as a volunteer for considerable periods for charities, she creates really good art (but refuses to try to sell it), and she does have several friends that she sees regularly. She is very shy but kind and caring. She is vegan and has been she was about 12 out of compassion for animals. She is an anti-capitalist and has said she would like to live in a commune. She is a wonderful person except that she does not seem to have the capacity to support herself or fully enjoy her life.

[Rayce]

You mention she enjoys volunteering. That is a really good starting point. Get her to do more of that. Perhaps she could consider a short term program like the peace corp. Wishing you all success...

[Duns]

I fear it's a life time of treading carefully that has resulted in her failure to launch.

I can't think of any evidence to support that hypothesis.

Looking for change at this point will be difficult. A work ethic should have been cultivated when she as in her early teens - I am not sure why that did not happen. Was her mental illness already taking over her life then - and she was unable to develop normal habits? Or was her family dysfunctional and failed to address these things?

She had various eating disorders from her early teens on. When she left school she wanted to take a year or two out to decide what she wanted to do. At the end of that time, she still did not know. She made only infrequent attempts to find a job. Her family was not dysfunctional except as I have described. Constant efforts have been made to address the issues but you cannot make an adult do what they do not want to do.

IDoes she have any well adjusted siblings? Does she function normally in social settings. Does she have friends, ever have romantic relationships etc?

There are no siblings. She functions normally in social settings though she is very reserved. She goes to live drawing classes and has worked unpaid for charities. She has several friends. She has never had a romantic relationship. She came close to a romantic relationship recently when she had coffee a few times with someone but after seeing him a few times, she rejected a kiss and he never saw her again.

[Duns]

I fear it's a life time of treading carefully that has resulted in her failure to launch.

I know of no evidence to support that hypothesis.

Looking for change at this point will be difficult. A work ethic should have been cultivated when she as in her early teens - I am not sure why that did not happen. Was her mental illness already taking over her life then - and she was unable to develop normal habits? Or was her family dysfunctional and failed to address these things?

She had various eating disorders from her teens on. Some family members were dysfunctional as I mentioned. Her immediate family - her mother and me as stepdad have continually tried to address the issues.

 

Does she have any well adjusted siblings? Does she function normally in social settings. Does she have friends, ever have romantic relationships etc?

No sblings. She functions normally (though shy) is social settings. No romantic relationships. She was hoping for a romantci relationship recently but after meeting for coffee a few times rejected a kiss and it didn't go further. She says she has issues with intimacy.

[Duns]

Apologies for the accidental more or less duplicate posts. The site won't let me delete either of them.

[Mr. Lucky]

I fear it's a life time of treading carefully that has resulted in her failure to launch.

 

I can't think of any evidence to support that hypothesis.

 

Your stepdaughter is pretty much Exhibit A. If you want change from her, you'll have to change your enabling of her dysfunctional behavior. As you noted, you won't be around to prop her up forever...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Duns]

Your stepdaughter is pretty much Exhibit A. If you want change from her, you'll have to change your enabling of her dysfunctional behavior.

Mr. Lucky

I don't see how we are "enabling." We do support her so that hopefully nothing tragic will happen to her, at least in our lifetimes.

[Lotsgoingon]

Sorry to hear of your worries about your stepdaughter.

 

Severe mental illness (of multiple kinds) runs in my family. One thing it took me a while to figure out is that holding a job is a major, major task for some people with mental illness. I have a relative who is intellectually disabled, and/but he is socially skilled beyond belief. He charms, he's friendly. He loves to shake people's hands ... Everybody likes him even when he acts up. Well, he has a far easier time working and getting along at work than some of my relatives with serious mental illness.

 

Sounds like your stepdaughter had issues of neglect from her father ... as well as her mental health issues. Neglect & mental illness are not a great combination. With mental illness you need all the internal strength and health and sense of self and feeling loved ... in order to face up to the devastating condition. Plus she is probably socially awkward ... and probably experiences anxiety off the charts.

 

There is a huge element of social skill involved in working ... even in a job that allows you to work by yourself ... though nobody really works by themselves as workers always have to keep in touch with bosses and supervisors and pass on information ... and so on. Because of the neglect, she didn't get the gentle push of good parenting--the push to show up when you're scared and you learn that being scared is no reason to not show up. She likely doesn't have the internal voice to talk her through challenges.

 

Anyway, you guys are worrying a lot. Here's my suggestion. Go see a top estate attorney-disability attorney. You can google and put in calls and you want a meeting with an attorney who can advise on how to take care of a disabled relative (your stepdaughter fits this category--whether or not she's officially diagnosed) ... after your deaths. Like you can have a guardian or a appointed trustee who disburses money ... over time ... so she can't blow through any money she gets. Heck, you could probably put requirements on her receiving the benefits of a trust. The right disability-estate attorney will know helpful stuff that you didn't even know there was to know.

 

I'm sorry: but there is no logic or persuasion technique that you are missing. I'm not saying to stop bugging her. I'm simply saying her opposition to working is far far deeper and far more entrenched than you might think it is (the illness x the neglect).

 

There's nothing obvious that you're missing. I would say look for an online support forum ... one that has a thread or forum for parents of adult children with mental illness.

[RecentChange]

I don't see how we are "enabling." We do support her so that hopefully nothing tragic will happen to her, at least in our lifetimes.

 

You have enabled her because you have provided a soft landing spot so she does not have to deal with the consequences of her choices. If she really was going to be homeless, perhaps she would decide she could deal with working for a paycheck.

 

She has not developed the skills needed to live as an adult - I see this as nothing but prolonging a tragic result. She isn’t likely to do it on her own after your death - the longer this goes, the harder it will be to turn around.

 

Where did your son’s life take a tragic turn? Why wasn’t he a functional member of society?

 

From the outside looking in it’s hard to not notice patterns here.

[BaileyB]

This story sounds familiar, as it is almost the same history as my partner’s ex-wife. She too has untreated mental health problems and she has refused/been unable to work because of the untreated mental health problems since before their child was both.

 

She is currently living below the poverty line, complaining bitterly about her life circumstance without making any effort to change anything. She has long been enabled by her parents who continue to prop her up financially... and as tragic as it all is, It’s only going to get worse because I have absolutely no idea how she will cope when her parents pass away.

 

You are not doing her any favours by supporting her financially - you are simply enabling this feeling of dependence. I know, it’s hard to watch someone you love suffer. But, there have been lots of opportunities along the way for her life to be different. She still has the opportunity to find her own way. But, it’s not going to happen if you continue to pay her way...

 

I would try not to feel guilty. You sound like a kind and loving parent. Well meaning. She is very lucky to have your support.

[alphamale]

a couple of doctors need to certify her for Social Security Disabiity that will get her Medicare insurance and a monthly stipend.

[Duns]

You have enabled her because you have provided a soft landing spot so she does not have to deal with the consequences of her choices. If she really was going to be homeless, perhaps she would decide she could deal with working for a paycheck.

And if she was homeless, maybe she would kill herself? She says life is barely worth living as it is. We are not going to cast her out.

Where did your son’s life take a tragic turn? Why wasn’t he a functional member of society?

He had viral encephalitis just before his third birthday. He went into a coma and very nearly died. The resulting brain damage left him with various mental and physical conditions that made it very difficult for him to obtain and hold a job.