Stepdaughter doesn't want to work and barely wants to live

[Blanco]

I think what RecentChange is saying is that it's the years of enabling her that have helped presently put you between the proverbial rock and a hard place. You're pretty much in a no-win spot now, but that's due in some part to your stepdaughter not really being held accountable for her own life throughout her adult years.

 

Parents are tasked with the unenviable task of finding the balance between offering their children emotional support, even into their adult years, and permitting them the space to stand on their own two feet and use their innate resources to establish themselves as functional members of society.

[Mr. Lucky]

And if she was homeless, maybe she would kill herself?

 

Duns, why aren't you homeless? Why not me or any other poster here? We've learned that our own application of effort (and the resulting sense of accomplishment) is necessary to get the things we want. She hasn't been allowed that lesson.

 

We are not going to cast her out.

 

You wouldn't. She'd be casting herself and learning something in the process...

 

Mr. Lucky

[nittygritty]

Tell her that you and your wife have decided to sell the house that she lives in and that she needs to move into the rent house that she is buying and get a job to pay for it and support herself because you all cannot afford to anymore. Tell her that you all love her but that she is capable of working and that is part of being a financially responsible adult. She needs to do that for herself and for your peace of mind. You have tried to help her and she isn’t even trying to help herself.

 

Even if you just make the stipulation that she must get and maintain a job in order to continue to receive any financial help from you and her mom, she will learn how to financially support herself after you are gone. She will be stronger and more capable.

 

She knows how to manipulate you and her mom to get what she wants. She plays on your fears of what could happen to her if you were to cutoff financial support to her by talking about being homeless or life not being worth living when she likely would have learned how to work at a job and financially support herself if you all had not had money to financially support her.

 

Telling your kids “No” when their behavior is harmful and irresponsible is part of being a loving parent. Even when they are grown adults.

[ChatroomHero]

I don't see how we are "enabling." We do support her so that hopefully nothing tragic will happen to her, at least in our lifetimes.

 

What you are doing is the very definition on enabling. You're doing what you think is right and kind...and it is kind..But when you enable someone you will not recognize you're doing it and you might think you are just doing everything in your power to give your step daughter a decent chance. What you are actually doing is paying your step-daughter's way because she "doesn't ever want to have a job". You taught her there is no consequence for not having a job. There is no consequence for not working or providing.

 

What I didn't see in your posts is how she reacted when she told you she didn't want a job and quit her job and you told her you were cutting off any and all financial choice. You told her that, right?

 

Why have a job when mommy and daddy cover everything? That's exactly why she won't accept your calculations...there has never been a bad financial consequence that she has had to deal with in her life. You taught her the mathematics of finance are if you need $3K a month to live ok, she needs to have a job that makes at least $0 month because the money fairy just comes and somehow it all works out.

 

I'll tell you another thing...she didn't quit her job because anyone bullied her. She is lying to you. She doesn't want to work, she is lazy. She either got fired because she was lazy or didn't show up. That's why she didn't go to HR, because it was a lie to pacify her own personal ATM.

 

I honestly think you need to hear this...she's 32. It's time to cut the cord. I would suggest YOU get counseling to correct your enabling behaviors because you are actually doing a disservice to her future growth. I am not saying that in a bad way, but I think a counselor could help you understand that what you are doing is not going to help your step-daughter and yes, once you die, she probably will be on the streets because you have not taught her the skill of survival, self-reliance and the value of hard work...or any work at all.

[Lotsgoingon]

This enabling idea can be off target.

 

There is a certain level of functioning assumed for a parent to be able to "enable." Unfortunately there are low-functioning people out there who don't suddenly change because they are out on the street.

 

OP, go connect with other adult parents of people with mental illness. You'll get exposed to real stories, the ups and downs of working with a low-functioning adult with mental illness.

 

You'll encounter every kind of parental strategy ... from tough love on one end ... to "enabling" on the other end ... and everything in between. You'll also see that people move back and forth and around the continuum of support for a low-functioning and mentally ill adult. There is no quick fix--just lots of trial and error and unfortunately failure.

 

Harm reduction and harm minimization can be a valid strategy. I know a family where the adult child (with mental illness) forged checks. The family could have prosecuted him ... but the adult forger wasn't a tough person at all, and the family feared that if he landed in jail (with no money to get out), he could easily end up raped and assaulted by much tougher folks in jail. That adult didn't forge anymore despite not being prosecuted.

[Artdeco]

Duns, I feel bad for your stepdaughter. Depression and mental illness are a real struggle. However, you have to admit that she’s been luckier and more privileged than your average Joe, with her real estate inheritance and your constant financial support. Most people don’t have that support, and among those are also those who have depression and other mental conditions. These people have to find some kind of a job, in order to support themselves. And I think leaving the house on a daily basis in order to go to work, to feel you’ve accomplished something, to socialize with coworkers, etc. etc. also helps them feel valued, and “normal”. Your stepdaughter doesn’t have all that. She will never feel that she has accomplished something. And I think she will always feel isolated because of this.

 

I don’t know how severe her mental condition is, but since she’s not institutionalized, I think she would be quite able to hold a job. Some job. By not having a regular daily schedule, she’s been free to ruminate 24/7, and dwell on her misery. I don’t think that’s helping her at all....you have supported that lifestyle all her life. Why? I think now it’s almost too late for her to transform her life into something more normal. She should’ve been taught that a long time ago. And the more she sits at home, the worse she will get.

 

I have no advice as to what to do when you guys pass and she’s all alone in this world. Maybe some kind of a supervised living arrangement would be helpful for her. But even then I think a job would be great. Because that will give her a sense of self, a certain sense of pride, a sense of accomplishment. Looking at how things are currently, you can’t even be sure that she’ll survive you. I don’t mean to be harsh, but with her non-existent enthusiasm about life in general, it could very well be that you live longer than her.

[alphamale]

yes ArtDeco, in addition, most people with serious mental illneses are unemployable and end up on govt. assistance or homeless or taken advantage of by the unscrupulous. Their lot in life is unbearable

[Artdeco]

yes ArtDeco, in addition, most people with serious mental illneses are unemployable and end up on govt. assistance or homeless or taken advantage of by the unscrupulous. Their lot in life is unbearable

 

Yeah but she doesn’t sound like she’s totally unemployable. She sounds like someone who is just not used to working. Because she never had to. And that leads to more issues than those she already has to put up with.

[basil67]

All these comments about taking away her support network to force her to get a job....you do know that a lot of people living on the streets have mental illness, yes? Posters are talking like she's been spoiled rather than supported.

 

Take away those supports and she'll be likely to end up on the streets. Or worse.

[alphamale]

Yeah but she doesn’t sound like she’s totally unemployable. She sounds like someone who is just not used to working. Because she never had to. And that leads to more issues than those she already has to put up with.

 

ok artdeco, then we have to look at the enablers that are giving her money

[Artdeco]

ok artdeco, then we have to look at the enablers that are giving her money

Yes, and I totally understand where you’re coming from. And I know or I’m assuming that they love her, and that they want the best for her. But all that they have done so far hasn’t really worked. She is not any happier. Her mental illness isn’t any better. If you have done the same thing for over 30 years, and it hasn’t worked, wouldn’t you think that changing the strategy and the approach would be beneficial? Apparently they have not thought that way.

 

And why? Because they wanted her best. And they didn’t know how to do it differently. But now is the time to do it differently, because now is the time that they’re still alive and they are still available to support and help her.

 

Yes, and I do understand that many homeless people who beg for money in the streets (which by the way I support and always give something to) have mental illnesses. But the OP is asking what he can do in order to make sure that she is OK once he is no longer there, and the answer to this is to make her a person who is self-reliant.

 

And like I said, I don’t know how her mental illness affects her. And how severe it is. But if it is not as severe as it seems, a.k.a. she’s not living in a nursing home or anything else, and she’s contemplating buying a rental home to make some money ...... Then she’s definitely able to take care of herself. Or? Am I missing something?

Edited October 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[ChatroomHero]

Yeah but she doesn’t sound like she’s totally unemployable. She sounds like someone who is just not used to working. Because she never had to. And that leads to more issues than those she already has to put up with.

 

I agree. The things that stood out are OP said she worked and he thought it was going well and then quit right away because she was "bullied". My guess would be her definition of being "bullied" if she is not completely making it up, was her boss or another worker asking her to put her phone down for 30 seconds. If she has special needs, I can't imagine anyone would bully her right off the bat on a new job.

 

Also, OP says she said she never saw herself having a job. She doesn't want one. As long as she is bailed out financially, she doesn't need one. She is not and will not think of the future and how she will make money, because she has never had to. So when OP tells her that the rental income probably won't cover her, she doesn't know or doesn't have to accept it right now. She is thinking of today and not the future. It will all work out because well, for 32 years it all just worked out.

 

Either way, like Art Deco says, after 32 years what they are doing has not worked. OP seems to indicate she CAN work and hold a job if she WANTED to. She chose to leave the job she had, she didn't leave because she couldn't do the job. It doesn't sound like she is unemployable, she just doesn't want to be employed. If that is the case, it's either tough love and let her sink or swim so she can learn how or else she will run out of money in a few years and if there is no continuing source of money, she'll be screwed.

 

I think OP needs counseling for their behavior to make sure the choices they make will lead to the results they want. The current choices have not worked. I totally get OP is doing a great thing taking care of her and she may need some support, but I think it might be unintentionally misguided. I really don't mean this to sound trite, but it's like my dog. She's the first dog I have owned and I have had her for 9 years and she has behaviors that aren't always desirable but she is smaller and cute and most people don't mind. Some behaviors she has are not a major issue but talking to trainers I learned there were times I thought I was absolutely doing the right thing but now understand I was actually teaching her some of the bad behaviors were not only ok, but that she would be rewarded for them.

 

I have a feeling if OP cut off financial support as long as she didn't keep a job, she would find out pretty quick that her rental income won't be enough in the future. Until she sees that, "I need milk. I have $0 for milk. Why do I have $0 for Milk?" she won't get it. Doesn't mean he has to let her fail, but he has to let her see the consequences so she can internalize the importance of planning and having a stream of income.

[d0nnivain]

Posters are talking like she's been spoiled rather than supported.

 

I got the sense that she is spoiled rather then supported. She had a job for a week or so but decided it was too much pressure. Millions of people have depression but they get themselves to work. Having a purpose helps minimize the effects of depression. Staying home & doing nothing makes it worse.

 

If she has problem that precluded her from working of course she needs support. If she choses not to work, perhaps tough love is the way to go.

 

Plus tough love while her mother & step father are still alive to provide a safety net seems like a better idea then letting her fall once they pass.

Edited October 13, 2019 by d0nnivain

[anika99]

I realize that people with mental health issues need some special consideration and support but just paying all their bills and absolving them of all responsibility for their own lives is not the answer. As a matter of fact I would say that kind of caretaking only contributes to their issues. Going to work, earning money and paying one's own expenses is actually great for boosting one's self esteem and general mood.

 

OP you say your step daughter has a history of depression and anxiety and that she had an eating disorder in her teens. Sounds like she no longer has the eating disorder so that leaves depression and anxiety and those things are treatable. Perhaps not curable but they can be treated down to a manageable level so that the patient can lead a relatively normal life.

 

Could you not give her just a couple of requirements that she has to meet in order to continue to live in your wife's house? Perhaps that she has to at least attend therapy once a week and follow the recommendations of the therapist. That might mean taking meds to manage depression and anxiety, joining group therapy or taking some kind of behavioural therapy. Charge her rent but make it a very small amount that she can easily earn with a part time job. Just start with setting some very small goals that you require her to meet and don't back down when she starts crying and telling you she's just going to go be homeless and die.

 

I know you care about her and only want the best for her but what you and your wife are doing right now is almost cruel. She is not learning to take care of herself and so it will be extremely hard on her when you and your wife pass away and she no longer has any support at all. She won't ever develop any self worth if she never has to meet any responsibilities. You are operating from a place of fear instead of a place of love. Tough love doesn't mean being unloving or unkind it just means doing what is best for a loved one even if it's uncomfortable.

[gaius]

I think your only real choice to force any kind of change is to start to put the squeeze on her. Sit her down and explain that she needs to come up with a valid financial plan and start to execute it, or else you might have to start charging her rent or give the house she lives to charity when you pass. And follow through with those threats if need be.

 

Many people who are depressed are also highly manipulative, so expect some resistance and blowback. If you think she's actually capable then push her though. She's got one life on this world and spending it being a bum with no way to make her own way in the world is no way to live it.

[Leigh 87]

All these comments about taking away her support network to force her to get a job....you do know that a lot of people living on the streets have mental illness, yes? Posters are talking like she's been spoiled rather than supported.

 

Take away those supports and she'll be likely to end up on the streets. Or worse.

 

Of course the "kick her out and let her sink of swim" comments, are written by people who have never had to struggle with serious mental illness and who have always worked from a young age. They think that because they have managed to suck it up and attend work even on all the days they didn't want to - that it's just a matter of willpower; people do stuff they don't want when their food and shelter depends on it, right,,,?

 

Except this sadly isn't always the case.

 

I was once the OPs daughter. What got me working and into study, was the fact I ended up needing a sense of purpose. I got sick of being unhappy and sought to find meaning. I wasn't satisfied with not working for years on end. I didn't like my lazy ways alienated me from connecting to born regular adults by default (of not being able to relate or connect to anyone who all obviously work and or study).

 

No one forced me. And making me homeless sure wouldn't have been the catalyst I needed in order to change my lazy ways. It truly comes from within.

 

I had a spark of life inside of me that needed to be flamed. And unfortunately, not everyone has an innate drive to thrive orf to live fully, in the way most adults understand.

 

I couldn't agree more that making this poor girl homeless is going to necessarily give her the kick up the backside that she needs. Most likely: she'll feel shocked, depressed and abandoned. She'll likely need the wrong people and get taken advantage of. She may sink into immense self pity and despair, agreeing with you that she is worthless and doesn't deserve food or shelter and eventually starving to death. With a history of an eating disorder, she can probably go without food,; in combination with the new perceived abandonment, she could honestly very well starve needled to death to fulfill her need to just want to waste away....

 

I have been where this lady is. I certainly wouldn't have magically "changed" due to being homeless and penniless. It really was a process that came about due to values instilled in me as a child and genetics. Nature and nurture. Some stuff is either going to be there as a child, or it'll never develop at all. And some people just don't have that will to fully live.

 

I don't know exactly how to advise the OP. It was a very long and drawn out process for me. I too had eating disorders and issues. I think for some people the drive just may not be there to work, earn, save money towards goals and enjoy sexual relationships. I think that's what it comes down to.

 

When I lived in my parents lovely beachside flat, rent free of course, in my early 20s....whilst they lived overseas earning money to sustain the two homes in knew I would always inherit.....I remember hearing my neighbour laughing with her friends. It would make me cry-- I wanted that too! I didn't like being alone and having no friends due to not working and hence renderd too out of the ordinary to make friends.....

 

I had barriers to working and holding a job, an actual legitimate problem medically diagnosed. Although it took a decade - I didn't let it stop me. But I cannot stress enough; it was a very very long and slow process. I too, was content to coast by and enjoy a simple life behind four walls where my main goal was simple comforts; I was happy to cook and use recipe books, try and hold jobs I could never keep and occasionally have a friend over for dinner from my gym, where I demonstrated my elaborate coming skills I acquired due to being anorexic and having a preoccupation with food despite severely restricting the quantity I consumed and over exercising daily.

 

I reached my late 20s and was sick and tired of the negative consequences that directly results from my issues. I bent over backwards to say enough is enough, I am damn well finding peace. But I WANTED a normal, full life. It is what powered me through my medically diagnosed defects that name it legitimately hard for me to get and hold jobs. I just knew what I wanted and got to the bottom of it all. In a long hard and painful process, ultimately.

 

I got very lucky and slowly managed adult relationships. Albeit not totally healthy or ideal ones. I peaked after age 30. I am now married and due with my first baby soon. I finally found a career path I'm suited to and have achieved three years in a podiatry degree and am now switching to occupational therapy, so that I can work more closely with disabled and autistic children (as I once was) which this passion for occupational therapy came about due to working with the disabled as a part time college job during podiatry.

 

My life path that led to the most fulfilment did unfold but it wasn't because my parents kicked me out and made me homeless. And it's not for anyone here to really say whether or not your step daughter even WANTS to truly embrace romantic relationships and laid employment and if study.....I genuinely WANTED those things. I was and am very anti capitalism myself so I do understand where she's coming from. But my will to work came from the fact I am intelligent and hence wanted to fulfil my creative desires and achieve a bachelor's degree or higher. It was an inbuilt need. And I also love travelling overseas from since I could first talk; I was always obsessed with needing to see the world, and I suppose it gave me a superhuman drive to want to acquire the money in order to feed my deepest joys and desires.

 

You're doing fine. It isn't your fault your step daughter turned out this way. People who are normal and are always driven to work hard and be self sufficient aren't that way purely because of tough love. I truly believe we all have different paths in life. Some people are born with the drive to work harder at employment than others. It isn't all self taught or observed from parents. My parents were hard working and did everything right get it failed to launch of thrive or work for years into my 20s.

 

Your step daughter is who she is. Just lay your concerns out for her, tell her that life is generally filled with more joy when people work in order to achieve goals and experience fulfilment. Express your concerns over the fact that while she is worthwhile and good person, with talents and things she's good at - that you're sad she is missing out on achieving solid milestones: such as maybe selling her art and opening a small Etsy shop. Just something to do well and he good at that she can identify with. A sense of pride.

 

This is a really hard situation. Don't ever let people try and convince you that ALL failure to launch adults magically ALL respond to threatened homelessness and stripping them of their money. It's really not that simple. A middle ground can sometimes be in tall order.

[Leigh 87]

Many people who are depressed are also highly manipulative, so expect some resistance and blowback. If you think she's actually capable then push her though. She's got one life on this world and spending it being a bum with no way to make her own way in the world is no way to live it.

 

Yes but what if not all failure to launch adults feel that need? To truly live fully ? To work, afford some dreams, and truly embrace all the highs and lows of being a "normal " member of society?

 

I was in this ladies position and had that epiphany that being a bum was no way to live life.

 

What if not everyone has that drive ?

 

It's easy to suggest that surely everyone has the innate drive to WANT to live the way you do. The way normal people do. Unfortunately, some people really are content to not achieve anything and to simply eat, breath and survive.

 

For them being homeless or getting "tough love" too late in their lives, could result in them concluding that: ah well, I was content to just get by each day in quiet comfort, I am not passionate about life enough to go be forced to work a minimum wage job I hate just to eat and survive just so I can do exactly what I currently do". Some people need additional help and encouragement from the right people and sadly, usually at the right time in their lives to really make a huge difference...

 

I ended up working and studying etc because I yearned for more than merely existing.

 

Unfortunately, some people aren't all that enthused about things in life and busting their butts to work just to attain a life they aren't really enjoying much anyway, isn't always as cut and dry as normal folks think..

[Mr. Lucky]

This is a really hard situation. Don't ever let people try and convince you that ALL failure to launch adults magically ALL respond to threatened homelessness and stripping them of their money. It's really not that simple. A middle ground can sometimes be in tall order.

 

You're ignoring the reality that, as we retire and exit the workforce, people have their own medical and financial needs that preclude them from supporting children for decades on end. So get them started, pay for schooling including college, help them transition - most parents can and will step up to fulfill those needs. But continue to support well into their 30's and 40's?

 

It takes a marked degree of self-absorption for a child to allow a parent to jeopardize their own financial well-being. It's not a win if mom and dad become homeless so their child doesn't have to...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Foxhall]

the opening post there "your wife and you will be dead"

 

you mentioned that about 4 times in your post,

 

I find the comment striking,

 

just hitting home the notion that we are all only here for a limited time I suppose,

 

on the main question of your post, yes encouraging her to work at least one day a week, building to two is worth persevering with,

she may actually see the benefit of having some extra income coming in rather than eroding savings,

 

what does she like or is there anything she shows an interest in.

[Duns]

Many thought-provoking posts here. I decided to try applying some pressure. I told my stepdaughter that if she gave up her part-time job, I would provide no future financial assistance. This caused her some anger and distress. Well, she submitted a resignation letter telling her employer that the job as making her anxious and miserable. Her manager asked her to meet with him, they discussed her issues, and she agreed she would carry on working for the time being and see how she felt in due course. She is so far still working in the job. So I feel a little progress has been made. My wife felt my approach was all wrong but I feel my pressure may have helped her to decide to accept her manager's suggestion not to give up so easily and to stay in the job for now. She also had a probationary period performance review and was rated good to excellent on various metrics, which seems to have made her feel happier.

[RecentChange]

Great update.

 

See a little grit and the reward of recognition. For her, and for you.

 

Progress won't be linear, but I am hopeful that this job allows her to start accomplishing - find rewards in little tasks.

 

I understand that she struggles with mental health (been there with close family members) but I also understand how getting out, doing for one's self, how accomplishing things can do a lot to boost moral and mental state.

 

No one improves by simply stating home and living in dysfunction.

[Mr. Lucky]

She also had a probationary period performance review and was rated good to excellent on various metrics, which seems to have made her feel happier.

 

Great news - for both of you.

 

Hopefully, she gets some sense of accomplishment. And you find peace in knowing she'll be able to successfully navigate life's basic necessities. Win, win...

 

Mr. Lucky