'Games People Play' thoughts

[Ellener]

It hit me this am when I had given a guy on match.com my email, then he gave me his phone number ( 'to text' ) then instead of emailing he wrote to me again on the match website and I haven't texted him because I don't give my only phone number to people I haven't met...etc etc....so- it's not really a genuine communication at this stage.

 

It maybe will be in a minute if I ask him if he'd like me to call him and he can say yes or no. We can talk and decide if we like each other enough to meet.

 

Back in the day I was a social worker transactional analysis was all the rage, the theories of Eric Berne:

 

'The essence of games described by Berne are that they are not zero-sum games (i.e. one must win at the other's expense), where the person who benefits from a transaction wins the game. On the contrary, the "games people play" usually pay all of the players off, even those who ostensibly are the losers, since they are about psychic equilibrium or promoting adopted self-damaging social roles instead of rational benefits. These payoffs are not consciously sought by the players but they are leading to the ultimate unconscious life script of each as set by their parental family interactions and favored emotions.' ( Wikipedia summary )

 

Games in dating would be stuff like playing hard to get, flirting then backing off, but head games are a way of engaging people whilst avoiding intimacy, so they don't usually end well unless it's a couple who have well rehearsed them!

 

Not wanting to take all the mystery or romance out of the situation or to overthink it all but I don't want to play games with someone the minute I'm taking them seriously as a person.

 

With perfect synchronicity an article just landed in my inbox called 'what is rejection sensitivity' https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-rejection-sensitivity-4682652 so I'm going to go read that.

 

( and this is how I pass a day in bed with a foot injury! )

[Flame Aura]

No idea what you are on about regarding the game playing stuff...

 

 

But email? It's 2019 not 1999, I mean who still uses email to communicate outside of work? And for a potential date? Nothing more vibe killing and impersonal...

[preraph]

Sounds like good reading.

[SumGuy]

I get how you wouldn’t want to give out a phone number readily. As unlikely as it may be a nut with your phone number can harass you much more and maybe even find out where you live and have lived, for little money or even free. It’s a key price of identifying info these days.

 

Could you just explain your reluctance until you get to know him?

[Trail Blazer]

Games? I don't know... life is a game. If you don't play the game you'll get gamed yourself. Only a fool plays their hand straight away. I've learnt the lesson... I've been burnt. I don't go out of my way to play games, but when I've got women on dating sites coming on quite strong, I'll temper things a little. That might come across as manipulation, but then, we all go about things differently.

 

Women play massive games with OLD. Leading you on, sending certain photos, wanting to add on Messenger... but never actually commit. They want the ego boost, but don't want to commit. Guys play games to get into women's pants... the women who want a relationship. Those guys see it as a challenge to bed her. Once they've succeeded they move on.

 

You seem like a very distrusting and suspicious person. Have you been hurt in the past by a former lover, online or otherwise? What's the aversion to giving out your cell phone number? I do it all the time. If they turn out to be a nutter, I block their number.

[mark clemson]

Just a note, she's referring to this psychology book specifically:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_(book)

 

Not sure which OLD games folks play fit into it specifically, but I'd bet some do.

[SumGuy]

...

Games in dating would be stuff like playing hard to get, flirting then backing off, but head games are a way of engaging people whilst avoiding intimacy, so they don't usually end well unless it's a couple who have well rehearsed them!

...

 

That is pretty much how I'd define "the games people play" in dating, or the various "rules" books some time back. All designed to give one the illusion of control and dignity when they are nothing but avoidance.

 

I'm sure they are the sine qua non for certain people, the question is...do they ever stop and do you end up in a relationship where people hide what they mean or even say the opposite and then expect you to read their minds.

[Ellener]

Dislike using the match.com communication tools more to do with the pernicious ( and allegedly illegal now ) activities of match group than the person communicating ( their targeted advertising, which if you block it their website doesn't work, is creepily accurate ) but last time I gave my phone number to someone without talking to him first ( ie assessing him in any way ) he took to sending vulgar messages when drunk.

 

I didn't block him, I felt sorry for him, he clearly had a drink problem and he stopped when I told him the next one would go out to all my friends.

 

I don't want to play *any* games the more I think about it, that's not what I'm looking for at all. If I can't be myself and I can't be honest or communicate openly it's not going to work for me.

 

I've often corresponded via email with people, some of us are natural writers I guess. I still write letters to some friends

 

The man and I are going to chat later via phone to see if we want to meet.

[Ellener]

'the question is...do they ever stop and do you end up in a relationship where people hide what they mean or even say the opposite and then expect you to read their minds'

 

Right SumGuy. Yes, I know I might get more dates initially by 'playing the game' but at some point it'll need to be real, I'm in my fifties and not going to change, or seek to change someone else, so we might as well start off authentic! The goal isn't to get me loads of dates, it's to seek a special connection and I got the epiphany- I can only do that by being myself.

 

( Yes, I know you told me that days ago SumGuy )

[Gretchen12]

Ouch!! Ellener stop it! My brain can't handle your post. I just wanna chill.

 

And how is it you are ok posting your photo online, but you can't give out your phone number when all the telemarketers already have it. If it's such an issue, just get a pay as you go sim card. You won't get very far on OLD without a phone number.

[some_username1]

Games? I don't know... life is a game. If you don't play the game you'll get gamed yourself. Only a fool plays their hand straight away. I've learnt the lesson... I've been burnt. I don't go out of my way to play games, but when I've got women on dating sites coming on quite strong, I'll temper things a little. That might come across as manipulation, but then, we all go about things differently.

 

Women play massive games with OLD. Leading you on, sending certain photos, wanting to add on Messenger... but never actually commit. They want the ego boost, but don't want to commit. Guys play games to get into women's pants... the women who want a relationship. Those guys see it as a challenge to bed her. Once they've succeeded they move on.

 

You seem like a very distrusting and suspicious person. Have you been hurt in the past by a former lover, online or otherwise? What's the aversion to giving out your cell phone number? I do it all the time. If they turn out to be a nutter, I block their number.

 

In your experience is sending photos symptomatic of game playing?

 

I ask because maybe you can put my mind at ease about a girl I was recently chatting to off a dating site and she sent me provocative pics (with her hair obscuring her face) and like a chump I laid it on thick with the compliments. But when I suggested a couple of times that we should go on a date she wouldn’t commit because she had to confirm what her shifts were at work (she was a nurse). Meanwhile she was posting updates about being out drinking with friends so she did have some free time...As we hadn’t even met properly yet I felt it wasn’t worth being dramatic about it so I just gently let the contact lapse. She then came back to me with lots of sad face emojis about the fact I had disappeared. So I levelled with her and gently said that I had tried to set up a date twice with no success and I like to meet quickly as I’m not into weeks of chatting. She flipped her lid on me saying about not being understanding about her job etc. etc, eventually she calmed down but she was on a real hair trigger, taking offence at innocuous stuff. After a couple of days of this nonsense I wished her well and told her it wasn’t going to work. She got all huffy and said it was all my fault because she had the following week off and we could have met up if I wasn’t such an arse- and that was that.

 

I went away kicking myself that I hadn’t been more patient because she had a smoking body. I tried to console myself that she might be playing a game because of her refusal to commit to a date and then the sudden “Oh look *now* I’ve got a free week!” but I don’t see why a girl would send nude pics unless she seriously trusted the other person, but maybe you have experienced photos being sent purely with the intent to tease/get a positive reaction?

[Trail Blazer]

Yeah dude, I work away a lot. I match with girls, they send pics and say, "don't forget me while you're away" and then when I try to organize a date for when I'm back, they either say they'll get back to me with a time and never do, or they'll agree and then ask to reschedule to another date, or just cancel and not bother rescheduling.

 

I lose interest in the ones who make it a challenge to organize dates in an efficient manner. I've been on OLD enough to pick the ones who are serious and the ones who aren't. Having said that, I haven't had a lot nudes sent to me. I don't really ask. The ones I'm referring to are mainly girls in their lingerie, full length mirror shots... teasing, etc.

 

I've given up pursuing one who has an AMAZING body because she's cancelled two dates on me, then when I lose interest, sends me random messages like, "Hey sweety, so sorry I've been really busy with work. I really want to meet up with though, hun."

 

Sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

[Ellener]

'In your experience is sending photos symptomatic of game playing?'

 

I imagine so some_username1. The Stocking Game | Sexual Game from Games People Play by Eric Berne is one of the theories.

 

Beginning to see why so many men have posted on their profile 'no games'. Closely followed by 'no drama'. Wonder if the men do the same?

 

I would think from a relationship perspective sending out provocative pictures to strangers means non-starter, but it doesn't look like she intends for sex or even a date either. Ego boost/compliments/attention? Hard to say, sounds like a lot of work or as Trailblazer says 'Sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.'

[SumGuy]

...

Right SumGuy. Yes, I know I might get more dates initially by 'playing the game' but at some point it'll need to be real, I'm in my fifties and not going to change, or seek to change someone else, so we might as well start off authentic! The goal isn't to get me loads of dates, it's to seek a special connection and I got the epiphany- I can only do that by being myself.

 

( Yes, I know you told me that days ago SumGuy )

 

Hey it's good to keep reminding ourselves about that (I'm in my 50s as well) especially when times are tough.

 

I'm also not into it for the sex, as I suspect the male version of games is all about.

[SumGuy]

O..

And how is it you are ok posting your photo online, but you can't give out your phone number when all the telemarketers already have it. If it's such an issue, just get a pay as you go sim card. You won't get very far on OLD without a phone number.

 

A photo is one thing, unless you use your real name and a google search can turn you up easily, or your area is small and a nut job can cruise your town for you.

 

Telemarketers may have your number but likely in a big bank of numbers and it is unlikely the person calling you is going to make it a mission to find you.

 

Now some rando on-line who gets bent out of shape....sure they can.

 

With you phone number and even general area of where you live (and with your age especially and even more with a first name) I can find someone's home address in 30 minutes for free just using google; unless they have taken pains to keep their number unlisted and other precautions. Have done it with just a number before. Just so that doesn't seem too odd, only for work a couple of times as an initial investigation (its not even my job) then the info was sent off a PI and FBI (who later arrested him I understand).

 

The trepidation about giving out a number is not unwarranted even if the likelihood is low the guy is a stalker.

 

I personally have no issue with women not giving me their number before we have met or even after if it is not going anywhere. I guess some men might until they understand the situation. If she is looking for uneasily phased men in their 40-50s who can put themselves in her shoes (not literally unless that is her thing ) then it shouldn't be an issue once explained.

[Gretchen12]

Sumguy, ok you're talking about stalking and crazy people. That has not crossed my mind. I was just thinking of people calling too much.

[chillii]

Did you ask him why he dudn't just email ?

 

Must admit though, after marriage and seeing the world these days , all l heard about was games games games. And l thought wtf , what games. Then l joined a date site.

Sure there were plenty of married or bf'd women on there looking for an ego stroke, that was very obvious right off.

But the games thing l dunno , l got accused of it myself , got accused of false names too, and of not even living in my country just because she dialed the wrong fkg number.

 

But really , l put most of it down to more just the crazy online age we live in now and date sites , hell l couldn't keep up, anything could change in minutes.

Some nights l'd be talking 4 5 different women didn't know wtf l was doing 1/2 the time or even names.

often you be off the line with one , no good, 10mins later your talking someone new.

l put it all more down to just online fast can't even keep up with it, crazy, paranoia of these days, throw away, cheapness of it all mentality., mix ups, moreso than actual games as such.

Even texting friends is fkg tricky sometimes, but your dealing with total strangers you meet through a computer screen.

Edited October 17, 2019 by chillii

[Ellener]

I called him and we had a nice chat, may meet up.

 

'l put it all more down to just online fast can't even keep up with it, crazy, paranoia of these days, throw away, cheapness of it all mentality., mix ups, moreso than actual games as such.'

 

Thanks Chillii.

 

Every positive encounter I'm feeling more confidence.

[OatsAndHall]

If you want to look at this from a game theory standpoint, you're risking a zero-sum game no matter what both parties' intentions are when dating. Both people are expending time, energy, and money in an attempt to make a lasting romantic connection. That connection can be rare and, essentially, both parties lose when things don't work out. But, again, that is from a game theory stance.

 

 

 

At the heart of it, even the most altruistic people will have their own best interests in mind when they are dating. As they should; you're meeting up with a stranger, trying to get to know them and see if something clicks. Now, people approach protecting their own interests in a number of ways; some of them are completely reasonable while others aren't. Unfortunately, the less than reasonable ways tend to come across as manipulative or simply wasting someone's time.

[chillii]

Mind you , that was the first time l'd ever been near a date site, after marriage. l was on L plates, whole new world and a pretty confusing business.

Awhile later on l went on one again for a short stint but l was far more together and extremely selective. l only bothered with a few l'd hoped very genuine and suited people and that really helped do away with 3/4 of the bs l got myself into the first time round.

Edited October 18, 2019 by chillii

[Ellener]

'less than reasonable ways tend to come across as manipulative or simply wasting someone's time.'

 

thanks OatsandHall, I've had to think about this myself, the time-wasting aspect, not in terms of playing games so much as practicalities. Rayce wrote about a man who didn't want to tackle traffic, at the time I thought oh how unreasonable- but that's already been an issue here, where traffic can be horrible and the city is 100 miles across.

 

I also have a busy, happy life of friends and activities I don't want to give up, plus I like solitary time, and time just me and the pup out in nature, and occasional meals with my son...so I'm trying to think through where the compromises are, and what is going to work for me just on a practical level re time and distance!

 

'l was on L plates, whole new world and a pretty confusing business.

Awhile later on l went on one again for a short stint but l was far more together and extremely selective.'

 

I started this Chillii because the very first man I met in daily life where it started to develop to a relationship I guess neither of us was ready, I'm now trying to be a bit more together for the next time I meet someone special

[chillii]

yeah right .

eventually, l spent 3yrs on my own first, l got lucky and met someone very special but that had also just been through the exact same thing so we kinda helped each other actually , but anyone else would've been a different story.

So it all depends too.

Good luck anyway.

[LuckyM]

There's some truth in Berne's book but it is still superficial. It was a best seller book when it came out, and sequels were written. Most people I knew that read it did not take it too seriously. You just cannot reduce dialogue to games and game theory--it is too complex for that, whether it is text or spoken. The gist is that everyone wants and needs strokes or pats on the back

and it must be reciprocal or the friendship fails or breakups ensue. Then we must acknowledge that "I'm OK and you are OK"--that's another book. You like me and I like you---duh--first grade.

 

As we know, some people can praise and stroke their friend or child all the time and it is not mutual