I'm not always a nice guy, but when I am I always finish last

[Trail Blazer]

Ah, the old addage that "nice guys finish last" is an unshakable social stereotype. And probably for good reason. There's definitely some truth to it. When you think about it, it has to be true.

 

A nice guy, by definition, isn't the antithesis of a jerk. A nice guy in this context is usually a guy who, through trying to be too accommodating to the needs of others, fails to concentrate on his own goals, therefore failing to capitalize on his objectives.

 

I've been that guy. I struggle to shake being that guy.

 

I stayed in my previous marriage way too long when I'd been unhappy for years. I ignored the problems and tried to coalesce all of positive aspects we both brought to the relationship. Read: I desperately tried to hang on to anything which I could justify not leaving my wife and kids, for their happiness, not my own. Where did that leave me? Many years wasted in a marriage which crumbled anyway, because I didn't have the balls to end it when I should have.

 

I stayed too long in my last relationship with a woman who'd checked out months prior to us breaking up. Admittedly I fell HARD for her, from the moment we met, pretty much. I did everything for her, from repairs around the house, fixing her car and taking her and her five-year-old son out for a day trip and/or to a restaurant, on a regular basis.

 

It's fair to say that I have been too nice, to too many people, for far too long. And, even when I've been madly in love, like was the case with my ex-girlfriend, it took my dignity and self-respect to be completely battered while I fought tooth-and-nail to try and salvage a relationship with someone who clearly wasn't feeling that mutual special feeling.

 

I don't believe that the stereotypical "bad boy" incapable of falling in love (unless he's actually a narc, psycho or the like as well). But bad boys aside, guys who have decided to just not take crap from people, and indeed have focused on their goals in life, are people who seemingly get what they want, not through steamrolling other people to gain what they want, but because they achieve in life what they set out to do because they aren't drawn in, and consequently derailed by, someone else's drama.

 

I created this thread as I have been ruing a missed opportunity. It was a real life encounter, with a real life woman. One of those rare, almost unicorn moments. Well, at least for me, anyway, as I hardly ever venture out into the public under these particular circumstances.

 

Fresh from leaving a venue/location, frustrated and with my tail between my legs from having my second date in a week turn out to be a no-show, I was seriously starting to re-evaluate the value which online dating with bringing to my life.

 

I'd driven to my closest light rail station (which is still a fair way from where I live) and left my car at the park and ride. Since I was heading into town, I thought it would be much easier than driving to town in peak hour traffic (albeit travelling against the flow) and trying to find a park. I prefer as much simplicity as possible when we're talking about arriving to a first date.

 

After some time, when it dawned on me that my date wasn't going to turn up, I got a bite to eat in town and then headed back home. In typical Oregon fashion, it was raining by the time the we reached the end of the line. I alighted the railcar and briskly walked back to my car.

 

As I'd turned my car on, I noticed this woman to the right of me, looking in through the passanger front window, trying to flag my attention. By this point, it was quite late. It had been dark for a while and the rain was getting heavier.

 

I wound down my window and she immediately asked me if I didn't mind dropping her off to her car, which she'd parked at her friends house about half a mile away. "Sure, hop in" I said. She was mid to late thirties, quite tall (probably 5'10" in her boots with mild heals) with a very fit body and a gorgeous face. In other words, she was hot!

 

She was very chatty. She got in and said, "Nice car! Anything is better than walking back in that weather, but this is so cool." My daily car is nothing fancy, just a 2013 Taurus SHO. I just said, "Thanks. It fits my needs nicely."

 

I noticed she had no ring on her finger. I was sensing this very rare opportunity to capitalize on a situation which had been literally gifted to me...

 

So, why didn't I? Well, I was feeling pretty jacked about my last two dates, and my mind had checked out from dating, and indeed just people in general at the point in time. I also felt, which is the pertinent aspect to all this, that, "I'm doing something nice for someone. It can be done without an expectation that something be returned."

 

In the most simplest of terms, I didn't ask her if she'd like to grab a coffee or something, because I felt like she'd be the kind of woman who'd have a lot of male advances and is probably tired of them. I felt like she'd probably had a very long day and just wanted to get home. I didn't want her to think of me as a man who will only help someone if there's something in it for me. I didn't want her to feel obligated to say yes, because I was a strange man who's car she was in and really, I could have been a psychopath who would have taken rejection terribly bad.

 

In other words, I didn't seize an opportunity, not because I was scared of rejection, but, because I didn't want to be a nuisance. I didn't want my goals as a single man who is looking to connect with women, and indeed beautiful woman at that, to potentially overlap into her potentially not wanting to go there frame of thinking with any man.

 

Put simply, I over-analyzed. I tried to be totally considerate of her personal circumstances. The problem was, how could I be empathetic when I didn't even know what they were?

 

When I arrived at her friend's house, she asked me my name before she got out. She said, "Thank you so much, Trail Blazer. That was really sweet of you." I could have asked her for her name back. I should have. It may have given me a guage into how receptive she might have been for me to lead into asking for her number. But I didn't.

 

There's no doubt that I was off my game that night. I consider myself a very confident, well-spoken man. I do not struggle talking to women at all. But that night, my convoluted thoughts of not wanting my frustration to turn me into a person who becomes selfish and jaded, caused me to hesitste. I just wanted to go home and reflect on my current situation, rather than introduce a whole new one.

 

As I sit here now, the middle of the night, ruing the missed opportunity, my introspection allowing me to make more sense of the situation, I've come to a few conclusions. I concluded that maybe, just maybe, she would have actually liked it if I'd asked for her number.

 

I mean, in this day and age, if a woman gets into a strange man's car, she'd have to be somewhat comfortable with the first impression she got. I get that it's a bit of a leap to suggest she [mwanted to be asked out on a date. However, it's probably not a huge leap to suggest that, at the very least, I'm probably someone she'd feel quite comfortable being asked by, even if she wasn't interested at that moment in time.

 

So, did I blow a golden opportunity, or would it have been too cheeky to ask for her number when she simply asked for nothing more than a simple favor?

 

I feel frustrated that at the time I behaved like a white night, mangina, simp, or any other toxic red pill term you can think of. I'm frustrated about the "what if" component to it. People often say that their biggest regrets in life are not taking risks, rather than the risks they took and the many subsequent failures.

 

All the BS of trying to be nice, considerate and behave in an appropriate manner aside, I'm left with this empty feeling of, what was the worst that could happen? So what if she felt slightly uncomfortable having to decline? I mean, if you're a beautiful woman in that situation, asking a man for a favor in that context, you'd probably factor it in as being a high probability for being hit on, right?

 

I've fantasized about going back to her friend's house and leaving a note in the letterbox, explaining the situation, providing my number and asking her to forward it on. There's an element of being a bit creepy and stalkerish there, but at the same time, it sounds like the basis for a cheesy, Hugh Grant rom-com plot. I could easily play the roll of charmingly goofy guy, sans the British accent.

 

tl;dr.... No more Mr. (too) nice guy!

[SummerDreams]

Well the right answer to "should I have asked her number?" is a result oriented one. If she had given it to you, the right answer would be yes, otherwise no. Why stress about a decision you made? It's gone now, just try to become wiser by it.

 

 

Regarding the good guy thing, I am not that romantic to think that anyone is good for the others; in my opinion, there is no altruistic act or feeling. Remember that episode on Friends where Phoebe and Joe were searching for an altruistic act? Did they find any? I think that a good person chooses to be good in order to satisfy their inner need to be good and not feel guilty for being bad.

 

 

 

Regarding good guys finishing last, no. There are good women out there who will only choose a good guy. So I always say to a good guy to just hang in there.

[chillii]

First thing you guys do when things don't work out is go all over the internet sprouting off their own personal labels and stickers on mankind and the way it all is according to you, leave the rest of us out of it.

As l've said 100 times, how many chicks round here you find wanting to see an AH twice , oh what a lovely AH he was, every female in the place tells her to run.

How do they describe someone they really like , nice, thoughtful and blah blah blah. you guys must be blind, honestly.

Stop being nice is a very good way of ending a marriage or gf or a date from what l've seen a few 1000 times.

And yeah as sd said , yes , great idea , if no then your thanking yourself, simple.

Edited October 20, 2019 by chillii

[elaine567]

Is it normal for women. where you live, to go up to strange guys in cars in the dark and ask for a lift?

[Flame Aura]

You should always look out for #1 first. Forget what other people think, look after yourself first and foremost.

 

Yes you should have asked her number for this exact reason, you are thinking what if. Also you thought WAY too much about what she might think/want instead of your own thoughts/wants.

 

Start focusing on yourself instead of other people, but I think you understand that now.

 

And your idea should no way stay just a fantasy - go back to the friends house ASAP and knock on the door and just talk to her friend, forget any note through letterbox. Keep it simple 'Hi I dropped your friend here a few nights ago from the station as it was raining. I didn't get a chance to ask her name and also if she would like to go out on a date, one thing I hate is missed opportunities. Would you mind passing on the message? Here is my number, thanks'.

 

Worst case is she's not interested and you never hear/see them again. Best case... well who knows. So you have nothing to lose. Don't wait.

[elaine567]

I think most if not all people are always looking after #1.

Even staying in a "bad" relationship is still looking after #1.

The alternative we perceive would be worse for us, so we stay...

 

...there is no altruistic act or feeling. Remember that episode on Friends where Phoebe and Joe were searching for an altruistic act? Did they find any? I think that a good person chooses to be good in order to satisfy their inner need to be good and not feel guilty for being bad.

Yes.

[Trail Blazer]

Is it normal for women. where you live, to go up to strange guys in cars in the dark and ask for a lift?

I have absolutely no idea! But it's not normal for me to be where I was at 10.00pm, either. I would highly doubt it, though. Seriously, I could have been anyone. Who knows, maybe she knows martial arts or something and is confident in her ability to handle herself?

[Trail Blazer]

And yeah as sd said , yes , great idea , if no then your thanking yourself, simple.

I much prefer the feeling of rejection from trying than the feeling of regret from not. I was just off my game that night and now I'm kicking myself.

[divegrl]

Yes I would go along with the idea that you do tend to over analyze. I saw one of your threads that ending up being 5 pages long about a women you had never met yet!!!!

 

You are in your head building stories. Instead get of your mind and into the present moment. Stop trying to control what you think may happen in any number of situations. Let things flow organically and naturally.

 

Hope this helps. Have a beautiful day.

[nospam99]

And your idea should no way stay just a fantasy - go back to the friends house ASAP and knock on the door and just talk to her friend, forget any note through letterbox. Keep it simple 'Hi I dropped your friend here a few nights ago from the station as it was raining. I didn't get a chance to ask her name and also if she would like to go out on a date, one thing I hate is missed opportunities. Would you mind passing on the message? Here is my number, thanks'.

 

Worst case is she's not interested and you never hear/see them again. Best case... well who knows. So you have nothing to lose. Don't wait.

 

SECONDeD!!!

[Gretchen12]

Is it normal for women. where you live, to go up to strange guys in cars in the dark and ask for a lift?

 

I've gotten rides in Oregon. Not in the dark but getting dark and dark is when you really need a lift.

[alphamale]

I'm not always a nice guy but when I am I drink Dos Equis

[SumGuy]

Second what Chillii said in #3

[Ellener]

'In the most simplest of terms, I didn't ask her if she'd like to grab a coffee or something, because I felt like she'd be the kind of woman who'd have a lot of male advances and is probably tired of them. I felt like she'd probably had a very long day and just wanted to get home. I didn't want her to think of me as a man who will only help someone if there's something in it for me. I didn't want her to feel obligated to say yes, because I was a strange man who's car she was in and really, I could have been a psychopath who would have taken rejection terribly bad.'

 

I think that *is* what a nice guy would think/do in the circumstances. I like that.

 

You could as Flame Aura said go back to her friend and explain you would have asked her on a date in other circumstances, pass on your number?

[preraph]

How that should have gone is as soon as she asked for a ride, you held your hand out and said, Hi, I'm Trailblazer, and surely she would have given you her name right then. If not, you would say, And you are? I mean, after all she's a stranger getting into your car. Even asking for ID wouldn't have been out of place.

 

 

 

I think you have already figured out the root of your problem. It's that you persist when there's a clear imbalance in the relationship. That's the time to cut yourself loose. Imbalance where you're putting in all the effort (or she is) isn't healthy and is dysfunctional.

 

And one thing I am not sure you do realize is it is the "desperation" aspect that is key. Desperate is not "trying hard." Desperate is not "undying love." Desperate is desperate, and desperate is not at all attractive and is what will eventually bring you down and make people lose interest in you because first they lost respect, because YOU didn't respect yourself.

[Gretchen12]

How that should have gone is as soon as she asked for a ride, you held your hand out and said, Hi, I'm Trailblazer, and surely she would have given you her name right then. If not, you would say, And you are? I mean, after all she's a stranger getting into your car. Even asking for ID wouldn't have been out of place.

 

Oh no... that would have scared me off. If I asked for a lift and the guy asked for ID I would have said oh I'm sorry I don't want to impose and I'd get away fast. I wouldn't ask for a ride unless I was desperate and I just want to get to my lodging/car. Ideally the person is laid back and kind, doesn't mind it, no fuss.

 

The OP was in a power position of granting a favor to a woman trying to get home, that's why he didn't want to use his position to put her on the spot. He wanted her to feel at ease which I'm sure she appreciated.

[basil67]

You've got the definition of a nice guy wrong. What you are describing is a wimp or a doormat.

 

A nice guy, the kind of guy which women want, is resilient and respectful both of himself and others. He knows what he wants in life and he seeks it, but does so in a manner which doesn't involve treading on those around him to succeed.

 

Meanwhile, I think your instinct about the woman you helped was right on the money. I'm impressed that you didn't take advantage.

[mark clemson]

I think at the end you passed her test for being a nice guy by NOT asking her out. Also shows independence, etc. So at the end when she asked your name would have been the right time to ask her number to text for a coffee date, etc. I think asking her too soon would have scared her off (esp. in the 10 pm at night in a car with a stranger situation).

 

No sense beating yourself up too much over one missed opportunity. If you're as good looking as you apparently are there will be others. Also, never fall in love with an opportunity. That's all it was. You don't know this woman and she could easily have a BF or be a lesbian, prostitute, etc. etc.

 

I suspect you're perfectly capable of taking charge of your life, including romantically. You've got a nice track record with dating (in terms of dating some fun and interesting women) as some of your posts have attested. There's no need to devolve into some sort of cold-hearted bastard. Just be try to a bit more aware of boundaries, whether you're being taken advantage of in a relationship, and where the other person is really at in the R.

[basil67]

Mark, your post is perfect.

[gaius]

It sounds more like you were intimidated that she was attractive rather than concerned about her feelings or well being. A lot of guys like to tell themselves they're nice when they're really just passive. And honestly if you were intimidated by her it wasn't going anywhere whether you forced yourself to hit on her or not. So you can lose the melancholy! You didn't let the girl you were going to have some crazy romantic comedy story with slip through your fingers. At best probably one or two guilt induced dates before a ghosting.

 

When you meet the right person you won't have to force yourself, you'll go after them naturally. So keep putting yourself out there and practicing healthy boundaries so when you meet her you'll be ready.

[Foxhall]

I quite enjoyed your opening post ,

 

I have been there, not the same situation, but similar and being hesitant to go for it for fear of upsetting the nice guy image,

 

I think sometimes a guy needs a missed opportunity in-order to make him stronger the next time,

 

when you have an opportunity again you will go for it, ask for a phone number, the last thing you want is this mental anguish type of post-mortem afterwards,

 

I think on balance it is more positive than negative to be a "nice guy"- hombre dulce y guapo- (sweet and handsome man),but never let being a nice guy make you timid,

 

fortune favours the bold.

[Trail Blazer]

A nice guy, the kind of guy which women want, is resilient and respectful both of himself and others. He knows what he wants in life and he seeks it, but does so in a manner which doesn't involve treading on those around him to succeed. Meanwhile, I think your instinct about the woman you helped was right on the money. I'm impressed that you didn't take advantage.

That sounds more like the traits of an Alpha male. I think people also get the definition of Alphas wrong, assuming they're just Chads who f@#k everything that moves.

 

I don't know whether I did the right thing or not. I certainly didn't do the wrong thing by her. I just wish I had asked her for her name when she asked me mine.

Edited October 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Trail Blazer]

It sounds more like you were intimidated that she was attractive rather than concerned about her feelings or well being.

That is literally the opposite of what the reality was. If that's what you've deduced from my opening post, I'd say that you are just projecting a position that you'd see yourself in if you were in my shoes.

 

I've certainly got my faults, things I'm continually working on about myself. One of them, though, isn't being intimidated by attractive women. The women I date are attractive. At no point did I think, "she's out of my league."

 

I use this forum to reflect upon my thoughts. My actual thoughts. Not pretend thoughts, because that would completely defeat the purpose. I put down the good, bad and the ugly and take all the feedback that comes. I appreciate all the responses. In this instance, though, your first paragraph was especially wide of the mark.

[Trail Blazer]

I think on balance it is more positive than negative to be a "nice guy"- hombre dulce y guapo- (sweet and handsome man),but never let being a nice guy make you timid, fortune favours the bold.

It didn't help that I was in a bad mood and I wasn't really in the space to even want to talk to people. This woman would not have realized how grumpy I was, but I'm sure she would have thought I was quiet and reserved.

 

Given that she was only in my car for about three minutes, or the time it took to drive half a mile, there wasn't really enough time to get past the point of any small talk (which there wasn't really anyway). It was just her navigating the three blocks we needed to turn down.

Edited October 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Morello]

I don't think it was a big deal. Maybe there was something in the interaction that didn't make you feel comfortable enough to ask for her number. If you claim you are confident around attractive women (and have dated a few before), I'm not sure you'd benefit from changing your game.

 

What I think is off is how many threads you have in this forum about women you haven't met or even dated. Posting in itself is not wrong but it just shows how much you overthink everything before anything even materialise.

 

Your other thread, you spent pages and pages analysing a situation (dating a mother, I guess) and she ghosted you before you even met. And now you're overthinking a brief interaction you had with someone. Most people would not think more than a few seconds about it. This doesn't look very healthy to me and might be something you wanna work on more instead of the 'nice guy' thing.

 

Edit: I've just noticed another 'overthinking' thread about dating a teacher. Again, you keep overanalysing a situation before you even go on the date itself. Living too much in your own head, man.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Morello