If you believe in heaven...

[E-mc2]

Then please state why YOU PERSONALLY believe you're going there when you die. You may also comment on hell and state why you personally believe you are or aren't going there.

Edited October 21, 2019 by E-mc2

[d0nnivain]

I don't believe I'm going there. I am working on myself & trying to be a good person. I sin more then I succeed so I am terrified I am not good enough & won't make the cut. I'd like to go to heaven. I pray. I try to be kind to people. I make donations to my church & help the poor. I visit the sick. I try to keep the commandments but I don't always succeed. I'm certainly no saint. I'm kind of hopeful I will at least make it to purgatory so I still have a chance. Like most things, I don't think I'm good enough

 

Where do you think you are going E-mc2?

[Trail Blazer]

I believe in heaven. I just don't believe heaven exists anywhere except earth. Heaven is a relative concept. One person's heaven could be another's hell.

 

I believe that I'm well on my way to heaven because I have the right combination of factors working in my favor which will allow me to realislze my own heaven.

 

Hard work, resilience, intelligence and sticking to a good plan. If one has a dash of each, with a combination of luck being born in a country of opportunity, one can create their own heaven.

 

I'm sure that's not the answer you're looking for, but it's what you're going to get from me. My interpretation on heaven is that of an abstract concept. The one spoken about in the bible is merely a human construct.

[E-mc2]

Where do you think you are going E-mc2?

 

There was a time when I thought I was going to heaven but over time my views have changed. I haven't found a compelling reason to believe in an afterlife.

[E-mc2]

I'm sure that's not the answer you're looking for,

 

Actually that's great. There is no right or wrong answer to the question. The purpose of the question I'm sure will come out later.

[Trail Blazer]

I don't believe I'm going there. I am working on myself & trying to be a good person. I sin more then I succeed so I am terrified I am not good enough & won't make the cut. I'd like to go to heaven. I pray. I try to be kind to people. I make donations to my church & help the poor. I visit the sick. I try to keep the commandments but I don't always succeed. I'm certainly no saint. I'm kind of hopeful I will at least make it to purgatory so I still have a chance. Like most things, I don't think I'm good enough

 

Where do you think you are going E-mc2?

 

So, if you don't believe you're going to go to heaven, then where do you believe you're going to go? Purgatory? Christians can't even decide on whether even such a place exists.

 

Honestly, I find it abhorrent that people could live their lives in such a state of fear. You seem like a very decent person from reading your posts in my time on LS.

 

Surely a place called hell should be only reserved for the worst of the worst people. Why would a normal, decent person like yourself be worried about being sent to a place as awful as hell?

 

Only a deity harboring extreme malevolence would threaten otherwise decent, everyday people with such an unjust punishment relative to their "crimes." What kind of sick vanity merchant demands his subjects submit to him or face an eternity of unimaginable physical torment?

[amaysngrace]

I believe I’m going to Heaven and I believe I’ll see my loved ones who’ve gone before me there.

 

Why am I so sure? Because I have faith.

[Timshel]

I read this post very early this morning and went along my day...but, this question stayed with me. Do I believe in heaven and hell, because I would need to believe both existed in order to have an opinion of where I would go.

 

I visited my mom a few days ago and the smoke alarm in her room was chirping. 'Mom, I'll be right back, I need to tell the nurse that the battery needs changed.'

'Oh, she says laughing, I thought that was the guy who lives on the fifth floor above me, he's such an ass.'

 

'There is no fifth floor mom.' 'Yes there is, there is only a service elevator.'

 

So I go to the nurse's station and of course, there is no fifth floor.

 

I am not presenting this as proof of afterlife, my mom is elderly, dementia would explain all of this conversation.

 

The battery was changed and as my mom is a scientist, we discussed how the universe has no quantifiable parameters.

[major_merrick]

I believe in Heaven and Hell. Literal places, not figurative. I believe that God will create a new heaven and a new earth as stated in the Bible, but I don't know when that will be or what it will look like. I do not believe in reincarnation, as it is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgement.

 

I believe that I am going to heaven because Jesus died on the cross for my sins - a perfect, righteous sacrifice to appease a holy God. Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. I have been baptized in His name and He lives inside me. I believe that I cannot attain heaven on my own merits (which are incredibly few.) "Whosoever will may come." With what few abilities I have, I attempt to obey his commands. My attempts to obey are pitiful, and are a response to the salvation I possess rather than an attempt to earn the salvation I have been freely given.

 

Hopefully heaven will look something like Valhalla, because I seriously don't know what I'll do there. But whatever it is, it will be better than the alternative of eternity with Satan in Hell - a place God does not want any person to go. God would have everyone to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

[Timshel]

So, what we think we know so far, is that organic matter cycles through 'death,' suns, stars, planets, galaxy's and of course, all organic life on earth. Yet the universe/universes are potentially infinite. So infinite (which would be simple Is, there is no other way to define) would contain evolving energy of organic.

So where would the conscious be, collective? Heaven or Hell?

[TheFinalWord]

I believe I am going to heaven because I put my faith in Jesus Christ, who atoned for my sins on Calvary.

[Trail Blazer]

I believe I am going to heaven because I put my faith in Jesus Christ, who atoned for my sins on Calvary.

I know a lot of Christians who believe they're going to heaven for that very reason, too. The same Christians who are total a-holes (it's just in their nature), but they aren't fearful of how they behave because they believe their sins are attoned for. But they're probably not true Christians, if they aren't "god fearing", though, right?

 

On the flip side, I'm most certainly going to hell because I am a non-believer, yes? I mean, I could be the best person in the world to my fellow human beings, but if I don't believe in god, and indeed that Jesus is his son and died on the cross for "my" sins, then there's no place in heaven for me, is there?

Edited October 22, 2019 by Trail Blazer

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

The battery was changed and as my mom is a scientist, we discussed how the universe has no quantifiable parameters.

 

I love this story .

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I believe I am going to heaven because I put my faith in Jesus Christ, who atoned for my sins on Calvary.

 

Same.

 

And I'm not going to say anything more on this subject in this thread because this very subject is occupying waaaaayyyy too much of my time already in my real life at the moment with group messages with my cousins and sister and separate messages with my end-times-obsessed mother. It's a stressful topic.

[Justanaverageguy]

I believe in heaven. I just don't believe heaven exists anywhere except earth. Heaven is a relative concept. One person's heaven could be another's hell.

 

I believe that I'm well on my way to heaven because I have the right combination of factors working in my favor which will allow me to realislze my own heaven.

 

Hard work, resilience, intelligence and sticking to a good plan. If one has a dash of each, with a combination of luck being born in a country of opportunity, one can create their own heaven.

 

I'm sure that's not the answer you're looking for, but it's what you're going to get from me. My interpretation on heaven is that of an abstract concept. The one spoken about in the bible is merely a human construct.

 

You may not actually realize it .... but this is actually not far off what is taught in Christianity Making Heaven a place on earth.

 

Of course their description of "what heaven is" is a little different. Heaven is connection with Gods spirit which pervades the universe. When men as a collective group learn to live in accordance with Gods laws .... then his spirit is able to return to the earth taking up residence within men's hearts. This is the "Eden" spoken of in parable in the bible. The place where God and man coexist together on earth. The body being a 'temple' - a vessel which the spirit resides within.

 

It imbues man with love, with bliss, with patience, with kindness, with contentment - with all the positive virtues and allows for a long life and freedom from illness and disease. But sinful behavior corrupts the spirit causing negative energy and issues and disease to be magnified. It makes good better - and bad worse. Thus God's spirit must withdraw from the earth until such time as humans are ready to receive him.

 

Thus "heaven" on earth can only return when we - humanity - as a collective evolve past our base nature and refine ourselves into something more. Into something better This is the goal of all spiritual schools - From Christian - to Muslim - to Jewish - to Hinduism - to Janism - To Sikhism - not simply to earn heaven in the after life - but to allow it to return here on earth so humanity can experience it in physical form. To enter into Samadhi - Yoga - Communion with God .... not after we pass from the earth - but while we are still here

Edited October 22, 2019 by Justanaverageguy

[Timshel]

One thing I am certain of is that the First and Last ain't gender specific.

 

A dude on a throne is not my God, to each their own.

 

Since I have thought on this topic, Red Robins have flown into the screen of my back porch.

They are fine, some people get a message. Why some people don't, who knows.

 

Not so long ago I thought if there is consciousness after death, there is no point in hell; because if a person's energy is free from the body and becomes aware of the Truth, that is enough.

 

Now, if there are Angels and Demons, then there is Heaven and Hell.

[major_merrick]

I know a lot of Christians who believe they're going to heaven for that very reason, too. The same Christians who are total a-holes (it's just in their nature), but they aren't fearful of how they behave because they believe their sins are attoned for. But they're probably not true Christians, if they aren't "god fearing", though, right?

 

On the flip side, I'm most certainly going to hell because I am a non-believer, yes? I mean, I could be the best person in the world to my fellow human beings, but if I don't believe in god, and indeed that Jesus is his son and died on the cross for "my" sins, then there's no place in heaven for me, is there?

There's a big difference between salvation and sanctification. Salvation is done for you by Jesus, no matter what awful things you do or have done. The thief on the cross next to Jesus lived a life of crime, came to faith last minute, and was told "today you will be with me in paradise."

 

Sanctification is what happens in the Christian life after you are saved. You try to become a better person as a response to your salvation - a way of giving thanks and expressing love to God and others. Some people (like me) have farther to go at this sanctification thing than others. And if you meet a Christian who is a total jerk, well they may have started out a LOT worse. You really don't know. Coming to faith doesn't mean you are perfect - you still sin. But God is working on you slowly but surely.

 

There is no way to "earn" heaven. You can be a wonderful and kind person, but without belief you can't enter. Why? Because God demands absolute perfection. That's a standard no human can meet because we are sinful and God is holy. Break one part of the law, you broke all of it. Eve ate the fruit and condemned all of humanity. God doesn't grade on a curve. One little rule. Ever told a lie? Even a white lie? You are guilty of all of the law, forever. And yeah, that's harsh. But Jesus paid the price we were supposed to pay, and all we have to do is believe and accept. Totally free for us, at His cost. God would have everybody to be saved. You, me, Ted Bundy, Hitler...everybody! Repentance and belief is required to accept Jesus' sacrifice and be made clean. Then we respond, beginning wherever we're at.

 

So I can come from a nasty, immoral, promiscuous, violent, greedy, foul-mouthed, thieving background...and I get to go to heaven. As a response, I try to be better than I was before. I probably have farther to go at sanctification than most, but salvation is free and guaranteed.

Edited October 22, 2019 by major_merrick

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

There's a big difference between salvation and sanctification. Salvation is done for you by Jesus, no matter what awful things you do or have done. The thief on the cross next to Jesus lived a life of crime, came to faith last minute, and was told "today you will be with me in paradise."

 

Sanctification is what happens in the Christian life after you are saved. You try to become a better person as a response to your salvation - a way of giving thanks and expressing love to God and others. Some people (like me) have farther to go at this sanctification thing than others. And if you meet a Christian who is a total jerk, well they may have started out a LOT worse. You really don't know. Coming to faith doesn't mean you are perfect - you still sin. But God is working on you slowly but surely.

 

There is no way to "earn" heaven. You can be a wonderful and kind person, but without belief you can't enter. Why? Because God demands absolute perfection. That's a standard no human can meet because we are sinful and God is holy. Break one part of the law, you broke all of it. Eve ate the fruit and condemned all of humanity. God doesn't grade on a curve. One little rule. Ever told a lie? Even a white lie? You are guilty of all of the law, forever. And yeah, that's harsh. But Jesus paid the price we were supposed to pay, and all we have to do is believe and accept. Totally free for us, at His cost. God would have everybody to be saved. You, me, Ted Bundy, Hitler...everybody! Repentance and belief is required to accept Jesus' sacrifice and be made clean. Then we respond, beginning wherever we're at.

 

So I can come from a nasty, immoral, promiscuous, violent, greedy, foul-mouthed, thieving background...and I get to go to heaven. As a response, I try to be better than I was before. I probably have farther to go at sanctification than most, but salvation is free and guaranteed.

 

An absolutely perfect explanation. Thank you, MM.

[TheFinalWord]

I know a lot of Christians who believe they're going to heaven for that very reason, too. The same Christians who are total a-holes (it's just in their nature), but they aren't fearful of how they behave because they believe their sins are attoned for. But they're probably not true Christians, if they aren't "god fearing", though, right?

 

On the flip side, I'm most certainly going to hell because I am a non-believer, yes? I mean, I could be the best person in the world to my fellow human beings, but if I don't believe in god, and indeed that Jesus is his son and died on the cross for "my" sins, then there's no place in heaven for me, is there?

 

Well, you're getting into theology here, which I don't mind discussing, but unsure what the OP wants to discuss here or how technical we should get..but here's a start.

 

Regarding the "sinnin' saints", technically, yes, if you are saved by Grace, you can no longer be condemned to hell for your sins. Now, if someone is saved, they will not have a heart to do just enough to get by. Christians are commanded to regularly evaluate themselves to determine if they are "in the faith." Christians that seek God will strive to be more like Christ. For example, as you point out, Christians not living right and ruining their witness for Christ to someone that doesn't believe. A Christian will always look for opportunities to share Christ. So, these Christians should be trying to be a better example.

 

However, looking at how other people live and evaluating their hypocrisy will not excuse us on Judgement Day. We stand alone. So, as Christ said, we should pull the log out of our own eye, before worrying about the speck of dust in our brother's eye.

 

Regarding hell, it's not that you do more right than wrong, and that keeps you out. One sin is enough to earn hell. There's no place for any of us in heaven. Christ is the only one that earned it.

 

However, I think there's a wrong idea of heaven and hell that you seem to have. It seems you do not like Jesus Christ and want nothing to do with him. Heaven is the abode of God, where believers will live with him forever. If you don't want him on earth, you won't want him in heaven either. Heaven would be a literal hell for you.

Edited October 22, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[E-mc2]

I find christians to be extremely arrogant when it comes to issues of morality. Really they are no different than any other religious or non-religious people when you throw them together as a group. People are people, it's up to the individual. I know kind good hearted christians and I know kind good hearted atheists.

 

I disagree with the idea that morality can only come from the indwelling of the holy spirit of god and everyone else is blinded. I used to be a christian and what I can testify to is that I'm now a better person without the dogma of religion.

[amaysngrace]

I find christians to be extremely arrogant

 

Then why gather us into a thread so you can hear our opinions? That makes no sense.

[GorillaTheater]

Anybody else find evangelical atheists just about as annoying as evangelical Christians?

 

At least the former rarely knock on your door, I guess.

[divegrl]

I feel as if the OP is being attacked a bit.

 

My belief is heaven OR hell can be experienced right now, in this very moment. You don’t have to wait until your physical death.

 

Revelation 21: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

 

I believe this heaven is accessible to all awakened beings. You might check out Eckhart Tolle’s book, “A New Earth”.

 

May you and everyone on this thread be happy and free!

[Rayce]

An absolutely perfect explanation. Thank you, MM.

 

ditto this comment

[major_merrick]

I find christians to be extremely arrogant when it comes to issues of morality. Really they are no different than any other religious or non-religious people when you throw them together as a group. People are people, it's up to the individual. I know kind good hearted christians and I know kind good hearted atheists.

 

I disagree with the idea that morality can only come from the indwelling of the holy spirit of god and everyone else is blinded. I used to be a christian and what I can testify to is that I'm now a better person without the dogma of religion.

I had a similar view of religion, which was why I stayed away from it for so long. I always wondered how Christians could be so insensitive to the poor in their midst, and so demanding of adherence to what seemed like man-made rules.

 

But one thing you said pretty much covers it all: People are people. You don't change instantly once you experience salvation. And some Christians can still be awful, hypocritical, or pushy. I finally figured out that my relationship with God absolutely does NOT depend on how other people act. I know that can seem difficult, but at some point you figure out that other people on this earth shouldn't be the reason you enter heaven or hell. It is between you and God, and then it is up to you and God how you will act. That is mostly independent of how other people act.

If you believe you are a better person now without dogma, either you were part of a group with false/misapplied teachings, or you've had some personal growth since leaving the group you belonged to. I've met some pretty strange, arrogant, moralizing atheists. I've met Christians who act that way too. It doesn't reflect on the truth of Christianity in any way. Trust me, I've been there!