amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Proof of God? Water. Odorless. Tasteless. Colorless. Yet no living organism on the planet can survive without it. And Jesus walked on it. There were witnesses. More proof of God. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 How is water proof of god? You need to elaborate a lot further before it can be considered proof. And, "Jesus walked on it" according to the bible. A lot of magic happened in the Quran as well. So which holy book should a take as gospel? Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Well Jesus was a prophet according to Islam so you tell me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author E-mc2 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 I think we all know here that god can't be proven nor disproven. Several people here they say they believe by faith but if they had good reason and evidence to believe they would argue facts and proof instead of faith. I don't see how water is proof of god any more or less than the existence of helium or methane. My stance remains the same. I will be happy to believe in God when you give me sound evidence or theology to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt. I was really hoping for people of various faiths to be here to discuss their belief in heaven. I wonder if simulation theory allows for heaven and I'll go there! Link to post Share on other sites
Author E-mc2 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Well Jesus was a prophet according to Islam so you tell me. I've never read the Koran so what I'm about to say is only "hearsay". From what I've heard the Koran is more scientifically accurate in regards to the natural world as we know it. Maybe someone in here can comment on that. Anyway, just so you know a Muslim will use the same methods of refuting the Bible as a Christian will use refuting the Koran. It's like mutually assured destruction. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Anyway, just so you know a Muslim will use the same methods of refuting the Bible as a Christian will use refuting the Koran. Most don’t refute. We seek out commonality, peaceful people do anyway, and we respect each other’s faith. I know, holy wars and all that, but in modern times most just want to not be at war with each. Thank you Darwin for giving us a name for that. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 However, looking at how other people live and evaluating their hypocrisy will not excuse us on Judgement Day. We stand alone. So, as Christ said, we should pull the log out of our own eye, before worrying about the speck of dust in our brother's eye.That reads as a veiled threat. But I could be wrong. Are you suggesting I stop focusing on the hypocrisy of some Christians and start worrying about the fact that, according to your belief system, I am merely a few years away from being eternally condemned the the fiery lakes of Satan's humble abode? Regarding hell, it's not that you do more right than wrong, and that keeps you out. One sin is enough to earn hell. There's no place for any of us in heaven. Christ is the only one that earned it.I should certainly hope that it could only take one sin to go to hell. For every priest who has molested a child, it may have only happened once (although highly unlikely) and therefore one sin. One absolutely heinous sin, but one single solitary sin nonetheless. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but, as it stands, my understanding is that despits this priest being a molesterer of children, if he's an otherwise ardent adeherer to whichever branch of Christianity he belongs to (and it's fair to assume he is given that he's a priest), then he's still far more likely to get into heaven than I am, providing he repents his sin? However, I think there's a wrong idea of heaven and hell that you seem to have. It seems you do not like Jesus Christ and want nothing to do with him. Heaven is the abode of God, where believers will live with him forever. If you don't want him on earth, you won't want him in heaven either. Heaven would be a literal hell for you.Well, I think you've got the wrong idea of atheism/agnosticism. I don't not like Jesus Christ. I view Jesus Christ as an historical figure who is central to the Christian faith. I neither like or dislike Jesus Christ any more than I do the Tooth Fairy, Father Christmas or the Easter Bunny. It's paradoxical for me to concern myself being in the company of the main protagonists of Christianity when my dismissal of them is not of a personal nature, because that notion is subsumed by something greater, that being the veracity of their very existence. I did have a chuckle, though, as your comment took me back to my youth and reminded me of watching South Park. I recall an episode where Sadam Hussein's had been exiled to heaven after his gay lover, Satan, had told God he wished to be single. Saddam Hussein absolutely hated it there, with the happy-happy joy-joy people dragging him along to sing hymns and the like. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Well Jesus was a prophet according to Islam so you tell me. According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet and that's all. He's no son of Allah, as Allah is one entity. He doesn't have a son, and certainly no holy spirit which comprises of the Trinity. Now please, back to my question about how water is proof of God's existence. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I've never read the Koran so what I'm about to say is only "hearsay". From what I've heard the Koran is more scientifically accurate in regards to the natural world as we know it.That sounds logical to me as it was written 500 years after the bible. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet and that's all. He's no son of Allah, as Allah is one entity. He doesn't have a son, and certainly no holy spirit which comprises of the Trinity. Now please, back to my question about how water is proof of God's existence. Jesus was recognized as a Holy Man by the Muslims and same with the Jews. They just don’t believe that He’s their Messiah. I already answered it in the post about it. Its in the chemical make up that sustains us. Prove the scientific version of the Big Bang created water and if so, how? Link to post Share on other sites
Author E-mc2 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Most don’t refute. We seek out commonality, peaceful people do anyway, and we respect each other’s faith. I know, holy wars and all that, but in modern times most just want to not be at war with each. Thank you Darwin for giving us a name for that. Help me to understand. I'm not try to argue, just a serious question. How do you respect someone else's faith? If you're a christian don't you believe that faith along with grace is given to you by god? (see Rom. 12:3) So then how do you handle someone of a different religion who worships a different god? Did the other god give them faith too or are they acting on delusion? Or perhaps your god gave them faith to believe in something else? You both can't be right. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 It’s all the same God. Link to post Share on other sites
Author E-mc2 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 So then I don't need faith in Christ to go to heaven. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I’m not sure, I’m not God. He’s the ultimate Judge. But I believe through Jesus is the Way. Link to post Share on other sites
Author E-mc2 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) If it's the same god, how do Muslims find salvation? Edited October 23, 2019 by E-mc2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I don’t know, start another thread and ask a Muslim. Link to post Share on other sites
Author E-mc2 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 You should have said that in response to my first question instead of making stuff up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I didn’t make up anything. Are you sure you’re not looking to argue? Link to post Share on other sites
Author E-mc2 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 I just find it confusing and interesting how you can say Jesus is the way (your words) and also that worshipping Allah is also the way and the same god. Do you see why that would be confusing and how those religions are diametrically opposed to each other in more ways than one? You said, two religions one god. I'm not trying to argue I'm only asking you to clarify something that doesn't make sense. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I actually said three religions, same God but whatever. God is the Creator. Different names, same God. I’m Christian and believe Jesus is the Way, I don’t know what Muslims believe is their way, or Hebrews, but we all worship the same Creator. There is only one of those. I hope that makes sense in a way you can understand it. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Jesus was recognized as a Holy Man by the Muslims and same with the Jews. They just don’t believe that He’s their Messiah. I already answered it in the post about it. Its in the chemical make up that sustains us. Prove the scientific version of the Big Bang created water and if so, how? There's a huge difference between Christianity and Islam. Islam totally undermines Christianity as it posits that Allah saw humanity going down the wrong path believing that Christ was his son. Islams "rights all the wrongs" of the preceding two monotheistic religions. I would not seek refuge in what the Muslims believe if I were you. As for your answer, sorry, it's not proof. Your answer fails the definition of what proof is. You want the "Big Bang" version of water? Water wasn't created from the Big Bang. Water came later, once stars came to form. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. Oxygen is produced by nuclear reactions in stars. Combine two parts of hydrogen and one part of oxygen and you get water. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Thanks TB, but I asked for proof. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I actually said three religions, same God but whatever. God is the Creator. Different names, same God. I’m Christian and believe Jesus is the Way, I don’t know what Muslims believe is their way, or Hebrews, but we all worship the same Creator. There is only one of those. I hope that makes sense in a way you can understand it.It makes no sense at all. Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross for man's sins, right? So, the only way to seek salvation is through Christ? With me so far? Yet, Muslims do not believe that Christ died on the cross as a sacrifice for "our sins." Muslims don't believe that humans are inherently sinners. If they are all "the same" god, then monotheism just became one religion, and it's convolutions become so perplexing (compared to just the bible which is already extremely convoluted) that no applogetic would simply walk from the indefensible. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Thanks TB, but I asked for proof.Proof of what? You asked me for proof of how water is explained in the context of the big bang. I explained to you that water wasn't "created" in the process of the big bang, but rather, it was formed later once stars started producing oxygen through stellar nucelosynthesis. Do you know what water is? Do you understand chemistry at all? I'm not trying to be conceited, but I'm struggling to comprehend how you don't see my explanation as evidence. Science has explained how water is formed. Water molecules contain two three atoms, two of them being hydrogen atoms and one oxygen. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Jesus wasn’t the Creator. Even Christians don’t believe He was. His parents were Mary and Joseph so that would be impossible for Jesus to be the Creator or else who created Mary and Joseph? Anyway, I hope you have a lovely day! I’ve got some things on my to-do list that need doing. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts