Problem: I'm Sexually Attracted to Women, but Prefer Friendships with Men

[Wave Rider]

Op, you've obviously just never clicked with a woman.

 

Well, as it so happens I did once. And in a deep and cosmic way. Five years ago. I haven't written about it directly on here. People who know me on this forum will know that my posts are often attempts to intellectualize my emotions, and I'd say that most of my posts on this forum are, in one way or another, my attempts to make sense of - and grow from - that profoundly confusing and life-changing connection. I am still deciding what to do about this particular connection.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Wave Rider

[TheFinalWord]

So for those who say that their opposite-gender significant other does great things for them, here's my question: what unique gift, not involving physical touch of any kind, can I receive from a woman that I cannot receive from a man? What can I get emotionally and spiritually from a woman than I cannot get from a man? And what unique spiritual or emotional gift can I give to a woman that she cannot get from another woman?

 

Traditionally, women were the help meet for the man. His biggest cheerleader, biggest fan and supporter. He may feel the whole world is against him, but he knows his woman is there and he can count on her. He may feel the pressures of leadership, but a single word from his wife can sooth his soul and remove his stress.

 

If you think about it again, traditionally, the Judaeo-Christian approach is that sex causes a man and woman to become "one flesh."

 

In other words, when married, a man and woman tackle the world from a more complete perspective. Note, the first women was created from the side of the man. Symbolically, a part of him is missing until he finds a wife. I don't think it's any coincidence the woman was created from his side, which is why it feels good to hold your wife into your side

 

The two are able to approache problems with both masculine (penetrating the world, drive, ambition, aggression) and feminine (openness to receiving, nurturing, supporting, tenderness) energy.

 

Of course, a lot of people don't believe in traditional roles. Which may actually be why you are having a hard time finding a friend. Like TFY said, friendship between a man and woman tended to be centered around raising a family and running a household, moroeso than having the same hobbies.

 

In terms of what you are describing, compatibility, it is nice to have some overlapping hobbies. However, I have found there is one characteristic that can cut through all of that: sense of humor. For example, my parents have been married over four decades and are total opposites in terms of hobbies. My dad is a country boy, loves hunting fishing, would wear the same shirt for 30 years. My mom is a city slicker, hates being out in nature, is into fashion and style. BUT they are able to crack each other up to the point they are rolling on the floor with laughter.

Edited October 23, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[Kitty Tantrum]

I'm quite glad my fiancé doesn't expect me to be his "friend" in the way so many men seem to expect that from their partners. We have a handful of shared interests, enough that we're never at a loss for something to do together - but I don't particularly share most of his interests, nor he mine. It would be awfully boring/cramped for both of us if we expected to share everything, and limited ourselves to mutual interests and activities.

 

Me, I'm kind of a girly girl. He's kind of a manly man. There's not a lot of overlap in our hobbies, interests, work, etc. I like to stay home and cook and bake and sew and do domestic stuff. He likes to go out and work with people and do adventurous things.

 

I can drag him into a fabric store for a few minutes, and he likes to see the things I make, but he'll never be my sewing buddy... although I CAN count on him to replace the motor on my machine. He might get me on the back of a motorcycle with him someday, but if he wants to "go out riding" like with a friend on another bike - that will never be me. He has a guy friend for that. And guy friends to talk about/build stuff with, like cars or high def audio systems, or whatever. We'll talk about our respective interests with each other, but it's never in the same sort of depth as it would be to talk to someone who is also intensely interested in and knowledgeable about the same things we are.

 

When we can connect on that level, in an intellectual meeting-of-the-minds sort of way, it's neat. I do appreciate when that happens. But it's rare and it's not a priority in our relationship. What is a priority is that we have a highly functional partnership wherein our respective strengths, weaknesses, etc. complement each other well. For us that means we have a relationship that adheres pretty closely to traditional gender roles.

 

In short, he doesn't need a woman who can fulfil the function of "one of the guys" - that's what the guys are for. I'm here for all of the stuff he CAN'T get from "the guys." We definitely "click" - but it's not at all in the same way that you could say that he "clicks" with his best guy friend, and sex is only one facet of that. It's a different kind of connection on every level. I'm here to take care of him and to help him, in all the things and all the ways my femininity makes me good at, and vice versa. He's well suited to an awful lot of things I seriously struggled to do on my own. Having a good, stable man who loves me and has my back is like some kind of physical and psychic force field against at least half of the crap life throws at me. The occasional shared interest is just icing on the cake.

 

And uhhh... I think that's pretty normal? Men and women are pretty different, on the whole, and it certainly seems that (in the context of heterosexuality) opposite-sex partnerships benefit more from complementary/cooperative skillsets, where same-sex friendships are often built and thrive more on the camaraderie of similar/competitive interests and skillsets. Trying to invert those premises seems not to work out so well in either regard.

 

That's not to say men and women CAN'T have friendships like that, but the idea that your spouse/partner SHOULD be your "best friend" in that way is a modern contrivance that I think should be taken more as a thought experiment than a model for the ideal relationship.

[Woggle]

I know my wife and I really bonded over similar interests. If I didn't have a woman in my life that I can enjoy great music with, and watch great movies and play great games then my life would not be as rich.

[TheFinalWord]

I know my wife and I really bonded over similar interests.

 

hmmm, well, I don't think it's a one size fits all. Just like for some people, looks aren't as important. To others, if exact requirements aren't there, they won't even consider the person. How much of your list of wants in a partner, negotiable? For me, if we have the same sense of humor that goes a looonnnng way. It's less important to me if she jams Metallica on her way to work.

[Wave Rider]

@Kitty Tantrum, TheFinalWord, RecentChange, basil67 - I like your ideas about relationship partners being a team, and men and women using their strengths for complimentary roles. I think that's awesome. But that's not what I see in most relationships. In most relationships I see a power struggle. I see women trying to prove that "A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." I see women who are trying to prove that they certainly aren't going to let their poor dumb incompetent male partner ruin their life. So yeah, he did the dishes and swept the floor, but he didn't do it right by her standards, so she yells at him. He's got a suggestion for a restaurant but she says that's a dumb restaurant and she has a better one. He has a full-time job, but she thinks it's not good enough and tells him he should be making more money. The couple owns a house, but she complains that she wants a bigger house and it's her husband's fault for not having a big enough salary to purchase a bigger home. A man tries to make his own decisions, but she henpecks and harasses him until he finally gives in and does what she says just so she'll shut up for five minutes. A man is a good and loyal husband, but a woman has a vague feeling that the perfect man is still "out there somewhere" so she leaves him so she can take a spiritual journey and "Eat Pray Love" her way to idealized fantasy.

 

As far as I can tell, that's what male-female relationships are about. I do find it inspiring that some of you have been able to transcend that.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Wave Rider

[RecentChange]

Who are these couples you know wave rider? I don't know any couples like you describe. Did your mother treat your father like that? Are your friends all in horrible miserable marriages that were a huge mistake?

 

You are in their homes and see the fights over dishes?

 

Here is my advice - a good relationship is about love and RESPECT.

 

Why in the world marry someone you thought was dumb?! Intelligence is a top priority for me, I can't suffer a fool, nor respect someone I think is dumb.

 

That's why I would never date someone I looked down upon, let alone marry them. Calling my husband dumb would be an insult to MYSELF. He is my partner, he is a part of me. I would have to be the fool to marry someone I thought was dumb.

 

I respect my husband's intelligence, I am PROUD of his sharp mind. And he also makes it clear he thinks I am a sharp cookie as well.

 

Yell at him over dishes?! NEVER that's not how good relationships work - if you can't communicate without losing ones temper - well they aren't doing this grown up thing very well.

 

I have never had to prove I don't need a man (wait, you are in California right? You are honestly encountering this issue here? In nearly 2020?) - if anything I have had to prove that I DO need him. Prove that I love him, that he completes me, that I can't imagine a life or a future without him.

 

What I do appreciate about our relationship is that we don't NEED each other in the sense that we are dependant on each other financially etc. We don't have kids, so it's not like we are staying together for them, we stay together because we love each other and are thoroughly benefitted from our partnership.

 

We don't stay together for the money. He could stand on his own two feet, and I earn more than double that he does - but that doesn't matter. What is mine is his, what is his is mine. All the funds go into one pot and is used in ways that is best for BOTH of us.

 

To me, your ideas of what a relationship is, what it has to offer a couple, what motivates women etc are so dramatically skewed. They read like a summary of a foreign language movie written by someone who didn't understand the language. So much nuance missed, big pictures not understood.

 

And to be very honest, if this is how you feel about relationships, I think you are better off a bachelor.

 

Successful relationships do take a certain constitution to make them work.

[Woggle]

A lot of male/female relationships these days do seem to be like what Wave Rider describes but it doesn't have to be like that. That is why it is so important to find somebody that you also have a deep friendship with. That way it doesn't turn antagonistic.

[chillii]

Well, as it so happens I did once. And in a deep and cosmic way. Five years ago. I haven't written about it directly on here. People who know me on this forum will know that my posts are often attempts to intellectualize my emotions, and I'd say that most of my posts on this forum are, in one way or another, my attempts to make sense of - and grow from - that profoundly confusing and life-changing connection. I am still deciding what to do about this particular connection.

 

 

Well see there ya go.

That's what l'm talkin about.

[chillii]

A lot of male/female relationships these days do seem to be like what Wave Rider describes but it doesn't have to be like that. That is why it is so important to find somebody that you also have a deep friendship with. That way it doesn't turn antagonistic.

 

 

 

 

Yeah for sure, wouldn't have it any other way. That's why so much l read around ls and others is so alien to me . Tbh l find it hard to believe they'd even marry or be with someone where they didn't have that and a lot more.

[basil67]

Like RC, I don't know any relationships which are like what you describe. Why do you know so many people who's marriages are like this?

[thefooloftheyear]

Like RC, I don't know any relationships which are like what you describe. Why do you know so many people who's marriages are like this?

 

I dunno, B...

 

After reading his assessment, sad to say it, but Id say that there are definitely more than one couple I know that fits that mold...The only difference in some is that the guys I know just ignore these wives and do their own thing...I think if the chips were really down they would come through for the other, but the daily grind for some of these guys is absolutely dreadful....My guess is that their libido is in the toilet, so no need to be chasing tail around, so they settle in to this life as its less painful than blowing it all up for the sake of just leaving..

 

TFY

[Mr. Lucky]

I see women who are trying to prove that they certainly aren't going to let their poor dumb incompetent male partner ruin their life. So yeah, he did the dishes and swept the floor, but he didn't do it right by her standards, so she yells at him. He's got a suggestion for a restaurant but she says that's a dumb restaurant and she has a better one. He has a full-time job, but she thinks it's not good enough and tells him he should be making more money. The couple owns a house, but she complains that she wants a bigger house and it's her husband's fault for not having a big enough salary to purchase a bigger home. A man tries to make his own decisions, but she henpecks and harasses him until he finally gives in and does what she says just so she'll shut up for five minutes. A man is a good and loyal husband, but a woman has a vague feeling that the perfect man is still "out there somewhere" so she leaves him so she can take a spiritual journey and "Eat Pray Love" her way to idealized fantasy.

 

It’s like you’ve been watching a steady diet of bad Lifetime channel movies.

 

These are your friends in these relationships, people you hang out with? And they’re macho and virile enough to chase big surf, but so timid they endure this kind of treatment at home?

 

Doesn’t add up...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Gretchen12]

These attitudes come from the home environment in your childhood. Blame your parents.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Well, as it so happens I did once. And in a deep and cosmic way. Five years ago. I haven't written about it directly on here. People who know me on this forum will know that my posts are often attempts to intellectualize my emotions, and I'd say that most of my posts on this forum are, in one way or another, my attempts to make sense of - and grow from - that profoundly confusing and life-changing connection. I am still deciding what to do about this particular connection.

 

It seems to me from this post that you do understand there is more to having a fulfilling relationship with a woman than just using her for sex. IMO it would have been helpful both to you and other posters had you been transparent about this in your original post.

 

@Kitty Tantrum, TheFinalWord, RecentChange, basil67 - I like your ideas about relationship partners being a team, and men and women using their strengths for complimentary roles. I think that's awesome. But that's not what I see in most relationships. In most relationships I see a power struggle...so she leaves him so she can take a spiritual journey and "Eat Pray Love" her way to idealized fantasy.

 

As far as I can tell, that's what male-female relationships are about. I do find it inspiring that some of you have been able to transcend that.

 

With the perspective you have expressed in the post above, it's no wonder you're not interested in having anything but sex with a woman. I'm so sorry you've not known or been exposed to women who are respectful, loving, giving and appreciative. I'm not labeling these traits as feminine, btw. I know many very masculine men who are respectful, loving, giving and appreciative.

 

Wave Rider, maybe part, if not all, of your problem with finding a fulfilling whole relationship with a woman is the culture in which you grew up and now exist.

[chillii]

Well see there ya go.

That's what l'm talkin about.

 

 

 

 

Also would've been nice if you added that following the what do you talk about ? OP, - then l wouldn't have wasted my time explaining it.

[chillii]

It’s like you’ve been watching a steady diet of bad Lifetime channel movies.

 

These are your friends in these relationships, people you hang out with? And they’re macho and virile enough to chase big surf, but so timid they endure this kind of treatment at home?

 

Doesn’t add up...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

 

Haaaa, that's somem like what l thought reading that, only you put it a bit politer , l just mean wtf ????

Bloody sad, not sure for which one, both l think.

[TheFinalWord]

As far as I can tell, that's what male-female relationships are about. I do find it inspiring that some of you have been able to transcend that.

 

The man you are describing is what I would call a simp or a beta male (beta male is a concept, not an actual biological construct).

 

He LETS (key word) his woman treat him like a door mat. Sex is transactional (must engage in chore-play, i.e. if he takes out the trash, he gets a kiss, if he cleans the garage, he gets lingerie), not validational (she wants sex from him to validate her as a woman). A woman isn't going to have validational sex with a man she can walk all over and doesn't respect.

 

The above scenario happens slowly over time, because he allows her to dominate him and control him because she doesn't respect him. Women don't want these types of relationships, so half of her anger is due to her wanting him to man-up, and he won't. Part of what he is going through in this scenario, is her actually $hit testing him (a woman's way of trying to salvage the relationship) through her behaviors basically asking, how long are you going to put up with this before you put your foot down? Women want a leader, not a dictator, but a man that takes charge and leads the relationship. If he gives up this role and let's her take charge, she becomes angry, makes him work for sex, treats him in a disrespectful way.

 

Going back to the Graden of eden story, the man fell into sin by allowing a woman to lead. She ate the fruit and gave it to her husband, even though he knew it was wrong. Part of the curse on the woman is that she will want to be the leader, but her desire will be for the man to rule over her. Even in the era of feminism, women flock to read 50 shades of Grey about submitting to a man. When man supplicates that to the woman, it leads to strife and discord.

Edited October 24, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[somanymistakes]

A lot of this thread demonstrates that far too many people here have no idea what healthy relationships are about.

 

Don't do things you hate just because you think you'll get something out of it.

 

Don't mock other people because they like things you don't.

 

Don't be so insecure that you have to desperately denounce everyone else around you as weak sellouts in order to convince yourself that YOU are right and pure and wonderful.

 

Don't pretend to be friends with people if you don't actually care about them.

 

Don't think that you're virtuous for not caring about people.

 

Don't assume that all men are the same, or all women, or all ANYTHING.

[Tamfana]

OP, the oppression of husbands perspective isn't really a new perspective. When I was growing up in the 60's comedians joked about this all the time, grousing and complaining about the wife, the old ball and chain, the hen who pecks, the old battle-ax, "take my wife... PLEASE!" It was comedy at the grouser's expense really. And it goes further back- Taming of the Shrew by Shakespeare has the same theme.

 

It's a perspective of oppression and it appears as though you're believing that it is accurate, that it is that way for all or most.

 

But no one ever truly "sees" the full dynamic of any romantic relationship so what you're probably "seeing" is the whining and grousing from whiney grousers letting off steam. There are males and females like that. Don't believe that oppression, whining and grousing reflect reality for all or most couples.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Tamfana

[lana-banana]

I know bringing up old threads is generally frowned upon, but it's very important here: in a previous thread OP has mentioned that his view of women, relationships and romantic love was profoundly (disproportionately, even) shaped by Disney movies. So I'm willing to bet that OP's views of relationships are similarly coming from television---dated sitcoms, made-for-TV movies, etc---and not actually real life.

 

As others have mentioned, real life is not like this. My husband and I consider ourselves intellectual equals and each other's best friends as well as lovers, but we have very different minds. We share in household chores and daily responsibilities. We love spending time together. Above all, we treat each other with gratitude and respect even when we're ticked off. Gratitude and respect in all things, small and large, are fundamental to a healthy relationship.

 

OP, your distorted view of relationships doesn't seem to include the possibility of two people who are grateful to, and respectful of, each other. It doesn't even seem to have space for people who are genuinely in love. I think you need to spend a few months drastically curtailing your media consumption and instead talking to real people, including those in healthy relationships and marriages. There are plenty of them out there. Hell, the majority of people who are married and married happily, albeit imperfectly. And the world is full of women who have value as people, friends, and sexual partners.

[Woggle]

Some people of both genders can only view relationships in antagonistic terms.

[basil67]

He LETS (key word) his woman treat him like a door mat. Sex is transactional (must engage in chore-play, i.e. if he takes out the trash, he gets a kiss, if he cleans the garage, he gets lingerie), not validational (she wants sex from him to validate her as a woman). A woman isn't going to have validational sex with a man she can walk all over and doesn't respect.

 

I'm not buying the transactional sex thing. How many guys here write about how they do all those things around the house and still don't get sex? Thing is, most women need emotional connection to sustain sex in a long term relationship. No amount of housework in the world will stoke the fires of a woman who isn't emotionally connected to her partner.

[Woggle]

A lot of women are married to men they really don't love and are not attracted to and all the chores in the world on the man's part will not change that.

[basil67]

Indeed. Chores are part of running a household together as a team. They don't buy love or sex.