Problem: I'm Sexually Attracted to Women, but Prefer Friendships with Men

[Kitty Tantrum]

In most relationships I see a power struggle. I see women trying to prove that "A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." I see women who are trying to prove that they certainly aren't going to let their poor dumb incompetent male partner ruin their life. So yeah, he did the dishes and swept the floor, but he didn't do it right by her standards, so she yells at him. He's got a suggestion for a restaurant but she says that's a dumb restaurant and she has a better one. He has a full-time job, but she thinks it's not good enough and tells him he should be making more money. The couple owns a house, but she complains that she wants a bigger house and it's her husband's fault for not having a big enough salary to purchase a bigger home. A man tries to make his own decisions, but she henpecks and harasses him until he finally gives in and does what she says just so she'll shut up for five minutes. A man is a good and loyal husband, but a woman has a vague feeling that the perfect man is still "out there somewhere" so she leaves him so she can take a spiritual journey and "Eat Pray Love" her way to idealized fantasy.

 

This is a very sad outlook. And yeah, sure, that's the popular trope/meme/stereotype for a reason; those relationships exist in abundance, unfortunately. The cool thing about relationships, though, is that YOU GET TO DECIDE. You don't have to have that kind of relationship. Nobody has to have that kind of relationship. Just because other people get into those sorts of relationships doesn't mean it's EVERYONE'S fate.

 

And yeah, people misrepresent themselves and people lie, and maybe you end up attached to someone who wants to drag you down the path of the lowest common denominator in spite of having agreed on something else entirely. Been there, done that. Learned from it. Shook myself off. Got my head on straight. Found someone better. Because having a partner is top-priority for me, and I can't have a partner who wants to or is in any way okay with living like that.

 

It's not about finding "the one" based on XYZ romantic criteria and then somehow "transcending" relationship norms together. It's about setting standards for yourself in terms of what your role is and ISN'T in a relationship. But that's if you want a partner. Maybe what you're struggling with is that your overly-romantic Disney/Hallmark Movie Channel notions of what a life-partner is, in conjunction with your slightly "black-pilled" view of the state of modern relationships have left you searching NOT for a partner, but for someone who will be a suitable lifestyle accessory.

 

Any time I see/hear people talking about how important "shared interests" are, in terms of consumer habits, I begin to suspect this motive. If the most important thing for you in a romantic interest is that they like to consume the same sorts of things and experiences you do (food, music, movies, shows, travel, games, hobbies, etc.) - where is that really going to get you? You can have tons of shared interests, but if the two of you put together don't also make a well-rounded team, that's only going to sustain the relationship for as along as you are both materially comfortable enough that the partnership is never tested by the need to reduce consumption and emphasize conservation/production. That's not really a partner, it's a warm body to enjoy with minimal change to your current lifestyle, for as long as things are "good."

 

People make "interests" top-priority - and then they wonder why their relationships get stale and resentful when "real life" kicks in and the bounty of youth begins to wane and the reality begins to set in that life really IS mostly about trudging through less-than-desirable circumstances rather than endlessly enjoying one pleasurable stimulating experience after another.

 

And the real rub of it is that if you're so lucky/fortunate as to HAVE enough resources that your life CAN be like that (endlessly fun and exciting), you're mainly going to attract people who just want your resources, and good luck sorting through all of THOSE to find the small handful who would stick by you if you suddenly lost everything and couldn't provide for all of those exciting "shared interests" anymore.

[basil67]

Great post Kitty.

[BaileyB]

Indeed, very insightful post Kitty.

[RecentChange]

The man you are describing is what I would call a simp or a beta male (beta male is a concept, not an actual biological construct).

 

He LETS (key word) his woman treat him like a door mat. Sex is transactional (must engage in chore-play, i.e. if he takes out the trash, he gets a kiss, if he cleans the garage, he gets lingerie), not validational (she wants sex from him to validate her as a woman). A woman isn't going to have validational sex with a man she can walk all over and doesn't respect.

 

The above scenario happens slowly over time, because he allows her to dominate him and control him because she doesn't respect him. Women don't want these types of relationships, so half of her anger is due to her wanting him to man-up, and he won't. Part of what he is going through in this scenario, is her actually $hit testing him (a woman's way of trying to salvage the relationship) through her behaviors basically asking, how long are you going to put up with this before you put your foot down? Women want a leader, not a dictator, but a man that takes charge and leads the relationship. If he gives up this role and let's her take charge, she becomes angry, makes him work for sex, treats him in a disrespectful way.

 

I think there are some very good points made here, although I am not totally buying the entire theory.

 

First and foremost *People treat you the way you allow them to treat you* You have to teach people who to treat you. Carry yourself in a way that commands respect, you will be respected.

 

Not all women need the man to "be the leader" but I think in most relationships people want an EQUAL partner. I have a strong / dominate, even somewhat aggressive personality - I need someone head strong like I am to be an equal with me. Otherwise, bingo, I lose all respect for them.

 

I remember when I was young getting into a relationship with a "nice guy" but soon I started to question his intelligence, and my respect for him started to slip (as did my attraction). And instead of just breaking it off, in my inexperience I started treating him worse - cancelled on him all the time, made unreasonable demands. My hope was he would tell me to take a hike so I didn't have to "man up" and break up with him.

 

It didn't work, he only groveled more in response, and I became even more disgusted with him until I was annoyed enough to dump him. I honestly didn't really want to hurt him - he was a "nice guy" and didn't do any thing wrong besides being an annoying push over.

 

I don't really need a leader - but I sure as hell don't need a partner that just puts his tail between his legs - I rather one that barks back and tells me I am out of line if I am treating him unfairly (on a side note, this is why I prefer cats and horses, they will tell you to F' off if you are unfair to them, dogs just grovel for more).

 

 

I know bringing up old threads is generally frowned upon, but it's very important here: in a previous thread OP has mentioned that his view of women, relationships and romantic love was profoundly (disproportionately, even) shaped by Disney movies. So I'm willing to bet that OP's views of relationships are similarly coming from television---dated sitcoms, made-for-TV movies, etc---and not actually real life.

 

Now when the OP asked for "examples from movies" makes more sense. Make believe - because yes, motives, TV shows etc are make believe are a horrible, terrible reference point for real life.

 

I am very thankful I grew up with very little media. Never really watched Disney or much in the way of TV (I still don't to this day). Real life observations are so much more valuable.

 

That is why I have asked repeatedly what the OP's childhood home life was like. Because as much as we may not like to admit, the relationships modeled for us when we are young make a HUGE impact on the relationships we develop as adults.

 

I am forever grateful to my father, and my step mother for exemplifying what a loving, happy marriage can be. Its INSPIRING! Their happiness, the ease in which their relationship flows, the harmony in their home, the adventures they have shared.

 

Perhaps the OP's mother treated his dad like $%#@, and maybe his dad was a push over simp... don't know.

[elaine567]

Women don't want these types of relationships, so half of her anger is due to her wanting him to man-up, and he won't. Part of what he is going through in this scenario, is her actually $hit testing him (a woman's way of trying to salvage the relationship) through her behaviors basically asking, how long are you going to put up with this before you put your foot down? Women want a leader, not a dictator, but a man that takes charge and leads the relationship. If he gives up this role and let's her take charge, she becomes angry, makes him work for sex, treats him in a disrespectful way.

 

I believe some women DO want these kind of relationships, relationships where she calls the shots, where she is the leader, where she is in control. The last thing she wants is for him to "man up", she loves being top dog. She is only angry to keep him in check...

And some men also like being in relationships where he is not the one making the decisions, where he can abdicate responsibility and leave his wife to it.

People come in all varieties...

[Wave Rider]

The "henpecked husband" relationship I described above does describe one relationship I know - my parents' relationship when I was a child. My parents went to marriage counseling and it helped them a lot. Even though their relationship is pretty good right now, being the child that I was watching that henpecking dynamic made a lasting impression on me that has not been easily erased.

 

It's true that I did feel a very deep and very powerful connection with a woman, a connection that transformed me for the better. I will write about it in another thread, and I hope you will all respond

[Wave Rider]

I have a strong / dominate, even somewhat aggressive personality - I need someone head strong like I am to be an equal with me. Otherwise, bingo, I lose all respect for them.

 

So if you and him are both dominant/aggressive/headstrong, how do you keep the relationship from escalating into a power struggle? If you are both unyielding in your convictions and determined to win every conflict, how do you get anything done?

 

The canonical relationship of two headstrong people together is Rhett and Scarlett in Gone with the Wind. We know how that ends - Rhett leaves Scarlett because she is just too stubborn, and...."Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."

 

Just thinking about this kind of relationship makes my blood boil. I seek consensus in my relationships and I get very irritated with people who need to dominate and control. RecentChange, I understand that people need to stand up to their partners on occasion, but I feel like I would get annoyed in a relationship where I needed to stand up for myself every five minutes. If a woman was constantly insulting me, badgering me, nagging me, and trying to control me just to make sure I'm "still a man," I would find that relationship exhausting and completely intolerable. How am I supposed to have a sense of intimacy and connection with someone when we're both trying to dominate each other? Maybe if I saw your relationship RecentChange it would make sense to me, but the way you've explained it, it sounds like I would not enjoy that type of relationship.

 

Also, my parents argued a lot when I was a kid, and it terrified me. A child needs to know that they have a safe, stable environment to live in. I didn't like my parents yelling at each other, even if it meant that my dad was "standing up for himself" to my mom. Maybe my dad stood up for himself, but I was terrified that my parents might divorce, and they were threatening divorce for years. They stayed together but were clearly unhappy. I still don't see what good my mom's "testing" did, nor did it seem to help that my dad "stood up for himself" sometimes. My dad's efforts to stand up for himself only led to a lot of yelling by both of them. I was scared, I was lonely, and I had parents who acted crazy and who fought over who-knows-what. Though it may have been better than some, I would not wish this childhood on another person. I had no idea why they could not seem to get along.

 

I would lose respect for a woman if she tried to push the "testing" thing too far. If I behave in a dignified and reasonable way and she's being mean and nasty just to see if she can get away with it, I'm not going to think highly of her character. I don't want to play that game.

 

And what about cases where "standing up to your woman" only causes her to dig in her heels and to become more aggressive, insulting, controlling, or dismissive? What if she escalates the conflict to a level that is truly crazy? What should a man do then? Is it his responsibility to stand up to her no matter how hysterical and out-of-control her behavior becomes? Does she have a license to make rude comments, hurl insults, and push her behavior to a level that is truly insane just because she's a woman?

 

While it's generally true that you send messages to other people about how to treat you, I do know that some people will not respect you no matter what you do. I had a roommate that simply could not stop his efforts at manipulation and control no matter how many times I stood up to him. He would try over and over to control me, and over and over I stood up for myself. This guy would seriously not give up his efforts at control, and eventually I just stopped talking to him. We lived together for about three years and barely spoke for most of that because he could not open his mouth without telling me to do something. At that point all I could have done to get him to stop his controlling behavior would be to issue some kind of threat or intimidate him in some way, but I didn't want to do that. He was positively unyielding in his efforts to control me, even after I consistently stood up for myself. I could not imagine having any kind of relationship with someone like that.

 

One thing I've learned about standing up for myself is that it doesn't guarantee that the other person will back down. Standing up for yourself can actually cause the other person to become even more aggressive and to fight harder to get what they want. If they do you've got a conflict on your hands, and if you want to stand your ground you need to be prepared to escalate that conflict, and that can lead to a lot of problems. Again, I would not want to be in a relationship where this happened on a consistent basis. Calling someone out on their BS doesn't always work either - sometimes they may acknowledge their mistake, but other times they may become defensive and hostile, and then you need to deal with that.

 

I demand respect from people, and I stand up for myself. If someone refuses to respect me, I end that relationship if I can. I can act in a dignified way, but I can't force someone to respect me. I could even use threats and intimidation if I want, but that won't necessarily lead to respect either.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Wave Rider

[Beendaredonedat]

The canonical relationship of two headstrong people together is Rhett and Scarlett in Gone with the Wind. We know how that ends - Rhett leaves Scarlett because she is just too stubborn, and...."Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."

That relationship ended not because they were both headstrong, but rather because Scarlett was unyielding and totally self absorbed.

[RecentChange]

So if you and him are both dominant/aggressive/headstrong, how do you keep the relationship from escalating into a power struggle? If you are both unyielding in your convictions and determined to win every conflict, how do you get anything done?

 

You are making inaccurate assumptions. What you forget, is that we love and RESPECT each other.

 

Are you unyielding in regards to people you respect? Would you rudely argue a talented professor - or perhaps pause and because you think they are brilliant, give some merit to their point of view?

 

Dominate and aggressive doesn't mean "must always win" but of us have a HUGE capacity to say, you know what? I was wrong you were right. Again, RESPECT and love.

 

We don't power struggle because neither of us desire to domineer the other. We are partners and equals, and well when you have two powerful people teamed up - we can feel like a juggernaut.

 

The canonical relationship of two headstrong people together is Rhett and Scarlett in Gone with the Wind. We know how that ends - Rhett leaves Scarlett because she is just too stubborn, and...."Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."

 

Again... I don't watch movies, and I don't believe that fairy tales are real life. I see no value in looking to movies to understand real life.

 

Just thinking about this kind of relationship makes my blood boil. I seek consensus in my relationships and I get very irritated with people who need to dominate and control. RecentChange, I understand that people need to stand up to their partners on occasion, but I feel like I would get annoyed in a relationship where I needed to stand up for myself every five minutes. If a woman was constantly insulting me, badgering me, nagging me, and trying to control me just to make sure I'm "still a man," I would find that relationship exhausting and completely intolerable. How am I supposed to have a sense of intimacy and connection with someone when we're both trying to dominate each other? Maybe if I saw your relationship RecentChange it would make sense to me, but the way you've explained it, it sounds like I would not enjoy that type of relationship.

 

At this point I feel like I am truing to explain the color blue to a blind man. I don't nag my husband, I NEVER EVER insult my husband, and I don't try to control him.

 

Those are not things strong people do. Nagging, insulting, arguing etc, that is for the weak. For those with low emotional IQs. For people who don't understand how to interact with people in a harmouenous way.

 

Why in the world would I want to nag and insult the love of my life? That makes no sense, that would make me feel like a pile of s*&%.

 

Also, my parents argued a lot when I was a kid, and it terrified me.

 

Its quite unfortunate but it appears that your parents had no idea of how to have a harmonious relationship. The way you have described your mother, it sounds like she had a lot of contempt and absolutely no respect for your father - and it sounds like your father didn't have a back bone and just took it and stayed.

 

And from your understanding of relationships - it seems that their relationship has really damaged you.

 

 

I demand respect from people, and I stand up for myself. If someone refuses to respect me, I end that relationship if I can. I can act in a dignified way, but I can't force someone to respect me. I could even use threats and intimidation if I want, but that won't necessarily lead to respect either.

 

You're right, you can't force someone to respect you. My husband certainly has never needed to, and I have never had to "force" him to respect me - Its just been an inherit part of our relationship since day one.

 

Its not a battle for respect... its not what you imagine. Its not a Disney movie, its not your parents dysfunctional relationship.

 

Its a partnership enhanced by love and romance. Its pretty friken cool! Way better than a friendship, or a FWB or anything else I can really imagine. Having the coolest person you know to spend your life with is awesome.

[RecentChange]

While it's generally true that you send messages to other people about how to treat you, I do know that some people will not respect you no matter what you do. I had a roommate that simply could not stop his efforts at manipulation and control no matter how many times I stood up to him. He would try over and over to control me, and over and over I stood up for myself. This guy would seriously not give up his efforts at control, and eventually I just stopped talking to him. We lived together for about three years and barely spoke for most of that because he could not open his mouth without telling me to do something. At that point all I could have done to get him to stop his controlling behavior would be to issue some kind of threat or intimidate him in some way, but I didn't want to do that. He was positively unyielding in his efforts to control me, even after I consistently stood up for myself. I could not imagine having any kind of relationship with someone like that.

 

He had NO respect for you. End of story. Advice? Don't get into relationships with people who don't respect you. I don't know why its so complicated.

[SumGuy]

The "henpecked husband" relationship I described above does describe one relationship I know - my parents' relationship when I was a child. My parents went to marriage counseling and it helped them a lot. Even though their relationship is pretty good right now, being the child that I was watching that henpecking dynamic made a lasting impression on me that has not been easily erased.

 

It's true that I did feel a very deep and very powerful connection with a woman, a connection that transformed me for the better. I will write about it in another thread, and I hope you will all respond

So why do you take your own childhood and think it applies to every or most all relationships? Especially when it sounds like you had one that was the opposite.

 

Do you find yourself engaging in black/white or catastrophic thinking regularly on relationships? If so you may want to talk with a therapist. As much as you don’t want to be henpecked you may also find supportive non-dramatic relationships boring.

[Wave Rider]

He had NO respect for you. End of story. Advice? Don't get into relationships with people who don't respect you. I don't know why its so complicated.

 

The complication here is that this roommate was assigned to me by university housing. I certainly would not have chosen him myself. By his own admission he had emotional problems. In some ways it was good for me because it gave me a chance to practice resisting other's attempts to control and manipulate me.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Wave Rider

[RecentChange]

The complication here is that this roommate was assigned to me by university housing. I certainly would not have chosen him myself. By his own admission he had emotional problems. In some ways it was good for me because it gave me a chance to practice resisting other's attempts to control and manipulate me.

 

Well now you know the signs. If you ever meet a woman who gives the slightest hint of behaving like your mother or your roommate run for the hills.

 

I have to wonder though, if your mother has made such a lasting impression on you regarding how "women" behave, I wonder how much behavior you have subconsciously picked up from your father. Because despite being "hen pecked" you must understand he played an equal role in their terrible relationship. It takes two to tango.

 

It's the old history repeating its self conundrum. For good or bad, many people find themselves in relationships similar to what has been modeled for them in their develop. It's what they know, it's what feels natural.

 

Heck you can't even imagine a healthy relationship - how does one achieve something that they can't even envision?

[Els]

It seems that lovers are not friends and friends are not lovers. I can't seem to manage a relationship with a woman who is both.

 

 

I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not you can - I'm sure you know yourself better than I know you. If you think you can't, then you can't, and you probably need to figure out why.

 

 

Many of us do have a partner who is both.

[Gretchen12]

Yup, I knew it was your parents. What you've experienced in childhood was extremely difficult, and hard to shake off completely when you relate to women. I have met other men with mother wounds. One of them, with movie star good looks, disliked relationships and didn't understand what was happening until he was around 30. He became a psychiatrist and has been happily married for 15 years now.

 

First step is recognizing how your childhood experience affects you in your relationships with women. You will (if you haven't already) lose out on dating certain women and destroy some relationships before you learn how to navigate.

 

There are different ways the mother can really hurt her children. She may be critical, promiscuous, depressed, domineering, getting beat up all the time, neglectful or manipulative. These all hurt the children deeply with fear and shame. A lot of people have slight issues. But it seems you are aware you have a problem. It doesn't help to debate it with others because these feelings are deep seated and irrational. Instead, you should try to find ways to heal.

[snowboy91]

@Wave Rider Eureka!

 

A lot of your sentiment about relationships, especially romantic ones, make a lot more sense now. Whether we like it or not, we tend to build an understanding of what romantic relationships should be like based on that of our parents, or based on that of others we observe around us (which in your case, as mentioned in a previous post, was influenced by movies). I'm still working on a similar issue, although my parents' relationship was based on non-confrontation instead... which arguably is just as bad.

 

Based on what your parents were like to each other, you tend to see long term relationships as some kind of power struggle, or a controlling environment. I think the roommate situation only reinforced that idea further. And yet you feel that part of the relationship is based on you constantly trying to stand your ground because that's the case with the majority of relationships you've observed around you. I also feel that it's also led to this perception that it's often the woman who is the one to instigate the controlling behaviour, and you hanging out with mostly men may cause some confirmation bias around this.

 

If you don't want to be in a relationship where you are constantly badgered and henpecked (and let's be honest, no-one does!), then you don't have to be. What others are saying here (and I'll repeat it) is that romantic relationships don't have to be that way, and in fact what you describe is an unhealthy dynamic. If you end up in a relationship where that dynamic starts to occur, you CAN get out! I get the feeling that a sort of personality that is quite headstrong may not be your jam in a romantic relationship. And that's perfectly fine - the whole point is to find someone who is compatible with you. Most people aren't - which is why most people have many relationships before they find the one they marry. Although I'd go out on a limb and say that many married couples aren't compatible with each other either.

Edited October 28, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote removed

[Woggle]

My childhood was from hell and somehow I managed to find a great relationship the second time around. Thankfully not all relationships and all women are like my mother and I know that now. You just have to hold out for a good thing.

[Wave Rider]

Yup, I knew it was your parents. What you've experienced in childhood was extremely difficult, and hard to shake off completely when you relate to women. I have met other men with mother wounds. One of them, with movie star good looks, disliked relationships and didn't understand what was happening until he was around 30. He became a psychiatrist and has been happily married for 15 years now.

 

First step is recognizing how your childhood experience affects you in your relationships with women. You will (if you haven't already) lose out on dating certain women and destroy some relationships before you learn how to navigate.

 

There are different ways the mother can really hurt her children. She may be critical, promiscuous, depressed, domineering, getting beat up all the time, neglectful or manipulative. These all hurt the children deeply with fear and shame. A lot of people have slight issues. But it seems you are aware you have a problem. It doesn't help to debate it with others because these feelings are deep seated and irrational. Instead, you should try to find ways to heal.

 

OK, let's talk about this. Snowboy91 mentioned something similar. I haven't revealed much about myself on here, and the fact is that I'm probably quite a bit less naive about relationships than I've let on. I'm well aware of my the negative influence of my parents' relationship on my own relationships; the problem is that there doesn't seem to be anything that I can do about it.

 

I've dated several women who most would say would have been ideal life partners for me. Two women told me that they loved me and they wanted to marry me. I've actually had abundant opportunities to date some really great women, women who were emotionally available, kind, affectionate, beautiful, all that. The problem that I had with these women is that I did not fall in love with them. Beyond that, when I was in relationships with these fantastic women, I had the distinctive feeling that there was another woman that I needed to meet in my life and a very important thing I needed to accomplish with this woman.

 

In 2013, I met this woman, the one that I had known would come along eventually so I could do this very important thing in my life. At first I was not super interested in her because I did not think she was my type; but as I got to know her, I started to feel really intense fireworks. Like, crazy fireworks. I'm a pretty logical guy, and I had no idea I could feel that way about someone. I felt an extremely powerful and deep connection with her, and I had a strong intuition that she was the woman I needed to be with. We started dating. The trouble is, she had some pretty bad emotional problems, and, well, I did too. You might say that she was like my mom, and she allowed me to re-create my own childhood dramas in hopes of resolving them and "getting it right this time." She was also a lot like my dad, and you might say that her emotional unavailability reminded me of my father, and I fell in love with her in the hope of finally winning my father's affection by using her as a symbolic stand-in for my dad. But that still doesn't fully explain her shortcomings, nor does it explain some of the other things that have happened since then.

 

If I tell this story, I'll need to do it in a new thread, because it's too long to tell here.

 

The TL;DR is both of us were way too immature 5 years ago for the relationship we were trying to have. Our relationship demanded that we each face our very worst fears and face the very worst parts of ourselves. I have not experienced anything nearly as emotionally intense as the short time we were together, nor has any person on Earth ever brought me to face myself the way that she did. She brought the flaws hidden in the deepest darkest parts of my being out into the light. Finally I saw myself as I really was - and it wasn't pretty.

 

In the 5 years since that break up, I have worked diligently to put that self-knowledge to good use by going to therapists, reading self-help books, and extracting as much life value as I could from the lessons I learned from her. This has been extremely rewarding, as I have finally come to like myself, I have finally cleared away the dark clouds of depression and anxiety that hung over me for more than 20 years, and finally had answers for why I acted in dysfunctional ways. After decades of feeling confused and often miserable, I am in a pretty good place right now and I feel generally happy most of the time. My relationship with her was probably the greatest gift that the Universe has given me.

 

Unfortunately, it does not appear that she has benefitted nearly as much from our powerful connection as I have. The lessons are there for her to learn, but she does not appear to be learning them very well. I talked to her on the phone a year ago and we chat on facebook occasionally, and it seems clear that she is struggling. She seems to remain stuck in her old dysfunctional ways. I feel sad that she still seems depressed and stuck, and I very much wish I could help her to experience the life-changing transformation that I did. I wish that I could help her to be happy.

 

Further, I am still in love with her. And my feelings and appreciation for her have only grown as I have seen the very positive things that have happened in my life that did not happen with my "well-behaved" girlfriends. I still have dreams about her at night fairly frequently - many of them powerfully symbolic - and on the rare occasion that I look at her facebook page, I still feel butterflies for her.

 

Again, this a TL;DR and I would need to post another thread that would do this relationship justice. I don't expect you to have any answers, and my therapist right now doesn't have any solid answers. But I just wanted you to know that this is where I am.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Wave Rider

[Gretchen12]

Wave Rider, thanks for updating. Certainly everyone's experience is unique and we cope according to our own abilities. Nobody can compare dysfunctions and say whose childhood was worse. This woman needs to figure it out for herself.

 

Of course it's well known that people gravitate to the familiar. So it's no surprise you were drawn to her. It is what you know. I once dated a guy very briefly. He ended it and the reason he gave me was I was too emotionally healthy. It didn't surprise me. He only goes for broken women and have these turbulent relationships.

 

One's worse demons come out in a close relationship. A person may live happily as long as he does not fall in love. His fears not being triggered. You're seeing a therapist it's good but you really get to know yourself when you get into a relationship. It's like a mirror.