Dating someone who is only separated

[anotherfool]

On 10/31/2019 at 8:07 PM, preraph said:

Just know that separated couples almost always get back together, taking that last shot at it, or sleep with each other at least. And the time they tend to do this is when they're sorting out personal belongings.

 That is an extremely broad generalization...

I just completed my divorce yesterday.  Separated 14 months (state mandated) and hadn't seen my ex since last January.

I do believe that there is risk of getting hurt, but that risk exists for any prospect who has been in a long term relationship.

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, salparadise said:

There’s no chance of him being involved or of them getting back together. They’ve been separated over a year, property divided, etc., and all that’s left is for him to sign some paperwork, but he’s avoiding it. According to her, the relationship has effectively been over for ten years or more. So I’m not worried about him in the least.

So why does her being separated matter?

 Whether she’s ready for a healthy relationship is another question.

I wouldn’t characterize it as pulling back because that’s more of a conclusion than there is evidence to support. All I really know is that she didn’t want to go to dinner last night.

You can ask that question of any one, you can also ask it of yourself.  Overthinking and angsting about the very normal.   I'd wonder if you are ready to be there for another person through thick and thin, ready to share her attention with her children.  She has a tough life now, and maybe for a while, are you ready for a relationship with a person who does not have a smooth and trouble free life?  

Case in point, why the confusion about why she didn't want to go to dinner?   If you grasped her situation with your heart, empathized, (and not just logically) you'd never have to ask this question.  Given her situation you describe the better question is how she even makes time to go to dinner with you.   

She has a very troubled daughter, she has a chance to spend time with her untroubled daughter who may well become troubled if all her mom's time is consumed by the troubled one.  That alone is more than reason and answer enough.

[FMW]

FWIW, my xH and I NEVER came anywhere near getting back together.  I never brought divorce up until I was done, I didn't use it as a ploy, there was no going back.  

But there are other reasons to be leery of being with someone just in the separation process, and even for a time after the divorce is final.  It's very likely they are in no head or heart space to be a good candidate for another relationship yet.  For most people divorce is a difficult and painful process and it takes a while to find the new normal.  Until they go through the transition there's a good chance the interest/passion they feel for someone else is based on a need for distraction. 

My advice, if you choose to continue seeing her, is to take it slow and dial your expectations way back.  

[preraph]

That maybe your experience but mine has been what I stated in my or first post.  They would still see their wives on birthdays and holidays, and two of them even said I couldn't imagine never sleeping with their wife again.  Some of them even linger after the divorce. 

 

It's very difficult on anyone trying to date them, and then after they are divorced, it's more likely they will be multi dating and seeing what all is out there than just switching over to you. Because now they're finally free.

[SumGuy]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

That maybe your experience but mine has been what I stated in my or first post.  They would still see their wives on birthdays and holidays, and two of them even said I couldn't imagine never sleeping with their wife again.  Some of them even linger after the divorce. 

Interesting, my experience is the opposite.  Once separated never a reconciliation and often the bare minimum contact necessary for the children.  Of course this may only be about half a dozen people total.  Would wonder if there is some predictor....well enough of the thread diversion as here it appears there is no chance for reconciliation.

[salparadise]

51 minutes ago, FMW said:

It's very likely they are in no head or heart space to be a good candidate for another relationship yet.

Yes, I realize. That’s the reason I started the thread. It took me awhile equilibrate when I was divorced. Our mutual friend encouraged me, and she seems to be a quality person... whereas I wasn’t meeting people I was interested in through OLD. 

[salparadise]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

I'd wonder if you are ready to be there for another person through thick and thin, ready to share her attention with her children.

Normally I’d answer yes, however, this may be the most disruptive, all-consuming, problem child imaginable. I didn’t know anything about her issues until after we had gone out a few times. Then she went into full crisis mode. A lot to think about for sure. 

[greymatter]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:29 AM, salparadise said:

Normally I’d answer yes, however, this may be the most disruptive, all-consuming, problem child imaginable. I didn’t know anything about her issues until after we had gone out a few times. Then she went into full crisis mode. A lot to think about for sure. 

My partner was concerned about the fact that I have a son with autism when we met. I'm glad that he didn't exclude me from consideration for a relationship due to that. If he had, it would have been good riddance. My son has already experienced a lifetime's worth of being excluded and anyone who would exclude me because my son has a disability is not someone I'd want to be with.

Although I do talk to him about issues that come up, I have never asked him for help with any of it. I don't need help with it, I'm pretty much of an expert by this point in being a parent to a kid with autism. That being said, I treasure my BF because he listens without giving advice, which is precious to me. There have been a few crises (mostly early on in our relationship) and I handled those independently and involved my kid's dad, not my BF. When things have come up, I definitely do fill him in. I've never let it affect our relationship, but he always says it's part of his duty as my BF to support me and be a listening ear, and tells me I can talk to him about anything. But still, I rely on friends and family and don't overly burden my BF when things come up, because I do have other supports in place and I don't solely rely on him for support. We support each other--it goes both ways. 

My BF was separated when I met him. He is now divorced. We have a wonderful relationship. I almost didn't date him because of him "only" being separated. I'm SO glad that I didn't exclude him because of that. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by greymatter

[greymatter]

One more thought about the separated status. I met my partner’s ex wife early on and that cemented the fact that the marriage was truly over and the details were in the process of being worked through. 

[salparadise]

14 hours ago, greymatter said:

...anyone who would exclude me because my son has a disability is not someone I'd want to be with.

It's not like I'm prejudiced or concerned about the stigma... the question is, will there ever be anything left after she devotes the necessary time and energy to her daughter.

In my previous relationship she had two teenagers in HS (who could be left alone), and an ex-husband who shared custody (every other weekend, every wednesday, plus holidays and summer vacation). This wasn't ideal but it was okay––we got together twice a week reliably, plus whole weekends half of the time. So I am cognizant of and receptive to some degree of limitation.

But with this situation, the ex-h is useless, the child cannot be left alone, and is unlikely to ever be able to live independently. Her only respite is the eldest daughter, who elected to live at home and attend community college because she is super responsible and knows she is needed. This gives their mother a few hours here and there, as long as things are relatively stable. She has no free weekends, no ability to schedule in anything in advance, no overnights, no vacations. When she is in a restaurant or whatever, she has to constantly be checking her phone. I don't hold it against her in a personal way––in fact, I admire how devoted and conscientious she is, but this is super restrictive. My heart says she's wonderful, pure gold... but my head is saying, who in their right mind would sign up for this?

Update on the recent discussion where she declined my invitation on Friday- she initiated Sunday and basically let me know it was not due to lack of interest. I think she realized what I might have been thinking/feeling. So, if we do manage to go out this coming weekend, it will be two weeks....  

 

[greymatter]

6 hours ago, salparadise said:

It's not like I'm prejudiced or concerned about the stigma... the question is, will there ever be anything left after she devotes the necessary time and energy to her daughter

That’s understandable that you are wondering this. In my case I have half of every weekend completely child free, and my phone is always put away when I’m with my partner.
 

Your potential partner doesn’t sound like she has support at this point so it’s definitely cause for concern. 
 

What are you going to do now that she has reached out? 

[salparadise]

1 hour ago, greymatter said:

What are you going to do now that she has reached out? 

Oh I’ll follow through and see what transpires. As I said previously, this feels a lot different than meeting random women online. She’s a sweetheart, genuine, sincere. For the moment I’ll follow my heart and keep my fingers crossed. 

[salparadise]

I made a reservation for a Valentine Day dinner several days ago, and asked her tonight. Her daughter came home (from hospitalization) yesterday. I knew it was a long shot, but the options were to make a gesture or not. She doesn't want to ask the eldest to cover because she has been making a lot of sacrifices already. So I'll cancel the reservation and spend V-Day watching Netflix or something. As much as I realize how difficult her life must be right now, I also think that if she  wanted to see me she would. Loss of optimism sucks.

[greymatter]

I don’t know, Sal. If her daughter had just had surgery and her mom didn’t feel safe going out just a few days after she got home, would it feel any different to you? I don’t get the sense that she declined because she doesn’t care or have an interest in seeing you. I bet she would love to have a date with you for V day but doesn’t feel she can go out.

i empathize with how you feel but V day is not a real holiday and even if it were, her daughter’s condition isn’t going to cooperate with the calendar sometimes. I just hate to see you write her off for something that is beyond her control. She can’t ignore her parenting duties or that would be cause for concern all on its own. 

[chillii]

Noooo , same stuff all over . Man you can't expect her to take off right now , she'll already all these other must do's .

As far as whether she really wants to see ya or she;s into this , ldk. but l'd suppose if your having trouble wrapping your head around everything she's got goin on , she might not be the woman for you man bc her stuff isn't going away anytime soon. l had to ask my gf for some time out for a mth , twice , for my nearly 19yr old daughter a few mths back. And that's no joke she lives 12 hours away so going home is a big thing. But my daughter had big stuff going on and l needed to be there. Gf's also had to be away 6wks a time helping her son and his nearly 30 , new baby , wifes sick. That's life man when kids are involved. The fact you miss vd with someone you've just met with a very sick daughter , doesn't even hit the scale l'm afraid.

Edited February 12, 2020 by chillii

[salparadise]

@greymatte @chillii  

Thank you all for the insights. I do think that if it were not for circumstances she would have accepted. She seemed appreciative that I made the gesture, and at first sounded like she might try to make arrangements. But then she said, "I think my life is a little too chaotic, unfortunately." So what am I supposed to do with that? Keep asking until she has to explicitly give me the "you're a nice guy, but..." line. The circumstances aren't going to change much. If she's going to have a relationship it would have to be within the context of the limitations, and she would need to show a bit of enthusiasm, even if in a subtle way. If she had said maybe we could get lunch or coffee, or whatever-whenever, it would make all the difference. She's not giving me anything to  hang onto, but maybe she doesn't perceive how it makes me feel either. I don't know––I just feel like I should back off.

 

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, salparadise said:

at first sounded like she might try to make arrangements. But then she said, "I think my life is a little too chaotic, unfortunately." So what am I supposed to do with that? Keep asking until she has to explicitly give me the "you're a nice guy, but..." line.

I could be wrong but I think she actually gave you that line,  just in different words.
Sorry.

[salparadise]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I could be wrong but I think she actually gave you that line,  just in different words.
Sorry.

Exactly—that was my assumption as well. greymatter thought otherwise.

I’m not one to persist where it’s not appreciated/reciprocated, and I have nothing but that to go on. She’s probably thinking, there has to be something seriously flawed in a man who would accept this... like the joke where the guy says, I’d never go to a party where they’d consider inviting me. And conversely, it seems like I’d never date a woman who’d accept me. I think I should just quit and get a dog. 

[carhill]

While pets are great, if someone said no here, OK, cool, billions of other humans on the planet and a hopefully long life. A dog can be a chick magnet and/or conversation starter 👍

[greymatter]

11 hours ago, salparadise said:

Exactly—that was my assumption as well. greymatter thought otherwise.

I was basing my responses on what you wrote earlier. “Update on the recent discussion where she declined my invitation on Friday- she initiated Sunday and basically let me know it was not due to lack of interest.“

Regardless, I’m also not one to persist where it’s not appreciated, including here in this thread. Good luck, whatever you decide. 

 

[salparadise]

6 hours ago, greymatter said:

...where it’s not appreciated, including here in this thread.

I don't know where you got that idea? The text you quoted was from a week ago, the first turn-down of the two in a row.

I just think that if she were motivated she'd make it happen. It takes two hours to go out and get something to eat. Both times she employed an excuse, not an obstacle that was impossible to overcome. Anyway, nothing is likely to change, so if we were to continue it would be a situation of me spending a lot of time alone, settling for almost nothing in terms of companionship and reciprocated investment. If she changes her mind, she has my number. I will not be sending cards or flowers.

[vla1120]

On 2/11/2020 at 8:47 PM, salparadise said:

I made a reservation for a Valentine Day dinner several days ago, and asked her tonight. Her daughter came home (from hospitalization) yesterday. I knew it was a long shot, but the options were to make a gesture or not. She doesn't want to ask the eldest to cover because she has been making a lot of sacrifices already. So I'll cancel the reservation and spend V-Day watching Netflix or something. As much as I realize how difficult her life must be right now, I also think that if she  wanted to see me she would. Loss of optimism sucks.

 

Being the mom of a daughter (now 30) who has had mental health issues, suicidal ideations, and multiple hospitalizations since the age of 15, I can sympathize with this woman. It's not a matter of "wanting" to see you. When you are living in that situation, if you're not already in crisis mode, you're usually on high alert, waiting for the next crisis mode to kick in because you know it's only a matter of time.

 

On 2/12/2020 at 5:41 AM, salparadise said:

@greymatte @chillii  

Thank you all for the insights. I do think that if it were not for circumstances she would have accepted. She seemed appreciative that I made the gesture, and at first sounded like she might try to make arrangements. But then she said, "I think my life is a little too chaotic, unfortunately." So what am I supposed to do with that? Keep asking until she has to explicitly give me the "you're a nice guy, but..." line. The circumstances aren't going to change much. If she's going to have a relationship it would have to be within the context of the limitations, and she would need to show a bit of enthusiasm, even if in a subtle way. If she had said maybe we could get lunch or coffee, or whatever-whenever, it would make all the difference. She's not giving me anything to  hang onto, but maybe she doesn't perceive how it makes me feel either. I don't know––I just feel like I should back off.

 

 

Based on my statement, above, you'll see that she may have many more years of this. Unless you are prepared to be an unconditional support system for her, allowing her to put the needs of her daughter before your own needs, it might be best for both of you if you walk away.  It just depends upon how much you are willing to sacrifice your own relationship needs with her to allow her to put her daughter first, when necessary. On top of my daughters issues, I rushed into a marriage with my second husband because he needed health benefits since he had stage III cancer and had no health benefits. He is now stage IV and at the end of his treatment options. We've been married over 5 years. He has never been sympathetic to my daughter's struggles and needs, which has resulted in me living two completely separate lives. In one life with him, I am his caretaker and I never mention the existence of my daughters. In my life with them, I do not mention him because they strongly dislike him (understandably) and do not support the relationship. I patiently await the day my life gets easier, while telling myself life could always be worse. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by vla1120

[salparadise]

On 2/18/2020 at 10:59 AM, vla1120 said:

she may have many more years of this. Unless you are prepared to be an unconditional support system for her, allowing her to put the needs of her daughter before your own needs, it might be best for both of you if you walk away.  It just depends upon how much you are willing to sacrifice your own relationship needs with her to allow her to put her daughter first, when necessary.

Yes, that's a fair assessment of the situation. I don't know how limited it would have to be, or how much I'd be willing to sacrifice. I only know that I like her and she seems to like me. We both seem to be willing to accept what is rather than focusing on some imaginary ideal. I haven't had a date with anyone else in six months, and I don't think she has dated at all. She knows it would take a special person to fit into [accept] the situation, and I know that it feels authentic, unlike numerous OLD experiences over the past couple of years.

She initiated contact the following weekend after I had concluded she probably wasn't interested. We went out again a few days ago and enjoyed each other's company. I don't know if it's headed anywhere. It just is what it is. 

[vla1120]

13 hours ago, salparadise said:

She initiated contact the following weekend after I had concluded she probably wasn't interested. We went out again a few days ago and enjoyed each other's company. I don't know if it's headed anywhere. It just is what it is. 

...and that is probably the best way to handle the situation - just take things day by day and see where it leads you. Best of luck to both of you. I hope her daughter is able to find peace living in her own skin.

[Mysterio]

I am in a situtaion where I am dating a Separated woman with 3 sons that she has Thurs-Sunday.  We have hit a bump in the road.  Now when I was getting to know her.  She did not state that she was separated.  I found out by talking to her.  Had I known that she was separated.  I would have been  a bit more chill.  She wants a full time relationship.  Yet she is on year 6 of her separation.  Money is the issue.  I don't understand why her Ex hubby 2 can't come to a meeting of the minds.  The ex hubby has a kid with his new lady of 6 yrs.   

I don't get why both men and women who are separated can't just at least wait one yr to date.  At least get the paperwork settled.  This way a new love can't use it against you.