boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hello LS. I have posted one previous thread about this topic. Background is here: https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/676868-not-sure-if-dead-end Fast forward until now, we just had our 2 year anniversary! Everything is amazing and we are so very happy. The ongoing discussion and problem that has recently come up is our difference on opinion in marriage. Since we are both divorced, he is unsure he ever wants to get married and I am positive I want to. However he tells me wants to spend the rest of his life with me, I am the one, yet can't tell me whether he sees marriage or not after two years. At our ages (36, 46) you would think that would be enough time to make a decision. I know some people just don't want to get remarried, especially after a bad divorce, but if that's the case the guy needs to say so. Instead he tells he he could change his mind and he asks me to wait because he doesn't want to lose me. He insists he isn't stringing me along but I am not real sure what to think about this. I don't want to lose him, I am willing to give it time but to the same token, I will feel like an idiot if I keep waiting and he keeps stalling. This is a tough! P.S. He agreed to go to couples counseling with me. Our first appointment is in a few weeks. Link to post Share on other sites
MsJayne Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Many people genuinely don't see any benefit to formalising a union, and then you get people who will deliberately refuse to go along with what you want simply because they feel you're being pushy. And, no offence intended, but you do sound pushy about the marriage thing. If I was a guy I would never propose if the woman was hassling me about it, the more she hassled the less chance I would cave. So his ex had to railroad him into marriage, and look how that turned out......are you aiming to be his next ex? Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Of course he is stringing you along. What he has here is a nice uncomplicated arrangement, he doesn't want to lose that. Many newly divorced/separated men want a companion, they want regular sex, but they don't want responsibility. He is 46, he has done his child rearing, I would guess the last thing he wants is to be seriously involved with kids of 5 and 7. You don't live together, he lives deep in the country, and will not move for at least 5 years due to his youngest son and you live in the town by necessity due to your disability. It works fine for him as is, if you want to get married, IMO he is not the guy... Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Of course he is stringing you along. What he has here is a nice uncomplicated arrangement, he doesn't want to lose that. Many newly divorced/separated men want a companion, they want regular sex, but they don't want responsibility. He is 46, he has done his child rearing, I would guess the last thing he wants is to be seriously involved with kids of 5 and 7. You don't live together, he lives deep in the country, and will not move for at least 5 years due to his youngest son and you live in the town by necessity due to your disability. It works fine for him as is, if you want to get married, IMO he is not the guy... I think we both logically understand the obstacles you mentioned above..however because our relationship is so amazing its hard to let go and we are both at the point where we are wondering if compromise is possible to where we both are happy and get our needs met. I am unsure of that at this point... Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I think we both logically understand the obstacles you mentioned above..however because our relationship is so amazing its hard to let go and we are both at the point where we are wondering if compromise is possible to where we both are happy and get our needs met. I am unsure of that at this point... IF you want to get married then I believe you are wasting your time. BUT if you are content free-wheeling along with no commitment then fine. It may not last as long as you may imagine though. Seems to me that people who say they don't want to get married, can suddenly change their minds when the "right" one comes along. That is the risk you run here. You could "waste" your thirties to find he goes off and marries someone else once he gets his head in order As this is the second thread you have made about this I do not think you are happy with the status quo. I think as time goes on and hope of a "happy ever after complete with ring" fades, you will regret the time you spent waiting for more. Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 IF you want to get married then I believe you are wasting your time. BUT if you are content free-wheeling along with no commitment then fine. It may not last as long as you may imagine though. Seems to me that people who say they don't want to get married, can suddenly change their minds when the "right" one comes along. That is the risk you run here. You could "waste" your thirties to find he goes off and marries someone else once he gets his head in order As this is the second thread you have made about this I do not think you are happy with the status quo. I think as time goes on and hope of a "happy ever after complete with ring" fades, you will regret the time you spent waiting for more. Correct. I will not just wait indefinitely, that would be a terrible idea. My thought is to set an internal deadline (perhaps give him another year) and that is enough time to decide if he wants to get married. If nothing changes I will know I am doing the right thing because his actions arent matching his words and have no regrets about it. At this point I am still unsure about walking away because I know he moves slowly so he very well need more time. But I wont give him all the time in the world. Link to post Share on other sites
chillii Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Only 2 yrs , l'd give it another year, he might change on the marriage thing if he's sayibg all that stuff. l swore l'm not getting married again and l'm older than him butttt, 5yrs later and yeah , l'd like to again now if everything's right. Divorce is enough to turn most sane guys off again for life , for awhile, especially if it was the w that started the divorcing . and triple that if ot was a bad divorce and there's kids and lost properties and finances. And you can bet 20 yrs ago she was the one pushing to get married in the first place. So you know , it becomes water of a ducks back after all that, for awhile anyway. Edited October 30, 2019 by chillii Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 If you love this man and have no intention of having children together then don't lose him for the sake of a marriage certificate. Good men are hard to find. You can drop this one and marry the next one that will make your life a living hell. Find a compromise. The only thing marriage will bring you of value is a legal protection. The rest marriage has no guarantee, it doesn't protect you against abuse, infidelity, lies, disrespect, none of that. When you're ready to move in together or buy your home together simply go to the notary and come up with a legal paper protecting each other's investments in the home. I am 54, my bf 52. I would get remarried, he would never. No way I will lose him over something like this. I had a husband before for 15 years and he never respected me and never made me feel special the way my bf is now. . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 If you love this man and have no intention of having children together then don't lose him for the sake of a marriage certificate. Good men are hard to find. You can drop this one and marry the next one that will make your life a living hell. Yes, good men are hard to find but no way would I stay with him if he doesn't want to get married. I am not afraid of ending up with a jackass because no way would I just settle for the wrong guy just to get married. Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Why do you stand strong on a marriage? Is it because of religious belief? ETA: I realize there is no point of me debating marriage with people of different culture as me. In my culture we don't marry anymore. We get legal protection and we're good to go. If marriage is so important to you, and so important socially in your culture then break up with him. . Edited October 30, 2019 by Gaeta Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Why do you stand strong on a marriage? Is it because of religious belief? Sort of, I was raised Catholic. However I think its more because I had a very traditional upbringing. My parents have been married 43 years, my mom was a stay at home mom, my dad worked a corporate job, we lived in a nice house in the suburbs There is nothing wrong with debating about marriage! Actually I am not sure its a cultural thing, as lots of American divorced men and women do not wish to remarry. Some are just gunshy and need lots of time. Thats where I am trying to see the difference in my boyfriend..gunshy vs against it completely. Edited October 30, 2019 by boymommy Link to post Share on other sites
divegrl Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hi! I would tell him that you would like to get married within the year. (Your internal deadline). Then drop it. Don’t bring it up or mention it. After the year, reassess the relationship. If he still does not want to get married, break up with him. Take care. Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPeach1 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 By wanting you to wait in case he changes his mind, he's having his cake and eating it too. In other words, he's receiving all the benefits of a husband without legally claiming and protecting you. If he's in love with you, thinks you're the One and realizes how lucky he is, why WOULDN'T he want to marry you? Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Sort of, I was raised Catholic. However I think its more because I had a very traditional upbringing. My parents have been married 43 years, my mom was a stay at home mom, my dad worked a corporate job, we lived in a nice house in the suburbs There is nothing wrong with debating about marriage! Actually I am not sure its a cultural thing, as lots of American divorced men and women do not wish to remarry. Some are just gunshy and need lots of time. Thats where I am trying to see the difference in my boyfriend..gunshy vs against it completely. Men are extremely hard to convince to remarry after a divorce especially if they've lost a lot financially. If that is his fear would he be open to negotiate a prenup? I was raised Catholic by Church going people. My parents have been married 55 years. I understand tradition but my parents circumstances were different and they lived in another time. Contrary to my mother I am a financially independent woman who doesn't need social approval for her happiness. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hi! I would tell him that you would like to get married within the year. (Your internal deadline). Then drop it. Don’t bring it up or mention it. After the year, reassess the relationship. If he still does not want to get married, break up with him. Take care. That sounds like a good plan. I should mention that I am not the one bringing up the topic of marriage. It either comes up in general (like we are talking about other people and then start talking about us or he just brings it up himself) and so I sometimes am not sure how to react as I dont want to come off as pushy. He seems worried and insecure that I will break up with him because he knows I want to get married. Thats what I gather he brings it up to assess where I am at. Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 By wanting you to wait in case he changes his mind, he's having his cake and eating it too. In other words, he's receiving all the benefits of a husband without legally claiming and protecting you. If he's in love with you, thinks you're the One and realizes how lucky he is, why WOULDN'T he want to marry you? Why is it always about him getting the benefits of a pseudo-wife...isn't she getting the benefit of a pseudo-husband as well? Doesn't she get love, affection, respect, help when needed, support, sex, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Men are extremely hard to convince to remarry after a divorce especially if they've lost a lot financially. If that is his fear would he be open to negotiate a prenup? I was raised Catholic by Church going people. My parents have been married 55 years. I understand tradition but my parents circumstances were different and they lived in another time. Contrary to my mother I am a financially independent woman who doesn't need social approval for her happiness. He said he wouldnt want a prenup actually. I believe his fears are emotionally based. He is even scared of living together because he says “if things go bad it cant be easily undone” (because of our kids). So his fear is that he will be trapped in an unhappy situation and unable to get out. Why he thinks it will be unhappy I am not sure. Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 He said he wouldnt want a prenup actually. I believe his fears are emotionally based. He is even scared of living together because he says “if things go bad it cant be easily undone” (because of our kids). So his fear is that he will be trapped in an unhappy situation and unable to get out. Why he thinks it will be unhappy I am not sure. He sounds like my bf and I think these men need time. My bf at 2 years dating mark expressed to me he's afraid of moving in because if one day I don't want him anymore he'll end up with nothing as I own my place and he'll own nothing. He also had this belief women are nice before moving in together and once you settle together the woman turns into an evil controlling freak. I said OK! I am not in a rush for anything, I was married before, I got my children already, he loves me, makes me happy, he's a full part of my life, my kids, family, we travel together, support each other, etc. Forward another 2 years to 2019, we started dating 4 years ago. Now my bf's speech has changed. We've been through a lot together and he discovered I kept being a loving, patient, affectionate woman. He's talking about us buying a house together and working all of the details, he talks about our retirement together, and all he wishes for us for our old days. What ever demons he was fighting he finally got control of them. I gave him time to confirm I am not like his exs, I am not after his financial support, I am not out to control him or change him. But, like I said, I am in a place in my life where being happy is more important to me than any social status or paper. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Why did his marriage fail? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Only 2 yrs , l'd give it another year, he might change on the marriage thing if he's sayibg all that stuff. Afraid chillii, have to disagree. Two years is plenty of time to know if he's committed and waiting a year just kicks this same decision down the road, doesn't change the parameters. Yes, good men are hard to find but no way would I stay with him if he doesn't want to get married. boymommy, here's what I'd ask all those, your BF included, who say marriage is just a piece of paper. Then why are you so afraid of divorce? It just dissolves the legal relationship, and with no kids or decades-long tenure involved, resets both partners. I'd guess his concerns are about more than just showing up one day at city hall... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 It just dissolves the legal relationship, and with no kids or decades-long tenure involved, resets both partners. It's much more than that. You are financially responsible of each other while married, debts and all. Is OP earning as much as he is? Can she financially pull her own weight in this relationship? If they remain married 10 years and she makes 25% of his earning then she'll been entitled to 50% of the assets he built in those 10 years. If she earns 25% of what he does then after the divorce she could ask to court for him to maintain the level of comfort she had while with him. I would not ask why he divorced, I'd ask how much cost him that divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 One of the best reasons for getting married is when someone goes in the hospital and you guys are entering middle age, one of you at least. If you are not family and one of you gets in a car wreck, you will not be allowed any say over what goes on should the other be unconscious or too incapacitated to make decisions. They will wait for a relative to show up. Also, you should never mix money unless you are legally married. So please don't cave and do that. It's such a mess if there is a split later. It's fine if you both want to keep money separate even after married or if you want to have some prenup, but do NOT mix money until you are married. Let him know these things. Two years is not a long time and he's not ready. Thing is, he may never be ready. If that's the case, he ought to let you know. I would wait another year and see how things are and not share money or anything and see if he's progressed any. If not, that would probably be time to bail out. You need someone as you grow older who can make decisions for you and your kids, and you need the protections of a contract for any money mingling. I might advise you to stop acting like a wife until you are one, too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 I might advise you to stop acting like a wife until you are one, too. I told him that I wouldn't live with him (or anyone for that matter) until marriage, for many reasons but mainly it's because of my children. I could cut him off from sex, I could stop helping him in the ways he likes me helping him (like with phone calls, being attentive, ect) but quite frankly I think it's manipulative to pull back in an effort to try and get a guy to marry you. If I can't be myself and have a guy accept that then I'd rather just cut my losses. I don't think it's a problem with me, it's him. Or it is me, but if that's the case then there is someone who will be the right fit. I don't want to be in a relationship that has no future. Link to post Share on other sites
Author boymommy Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Why did his marriage fail? He left the marriage after 10 years. He says his ex wife was extremely controlling and demanding and tried to keep his son away from him because she said she didn't trust him. She tried to take full custody during their divorce but lost. According to him, the times when he tried to talk to his ex, she would avoid those conversations and just walk away. It came to a head when he asked her if she would marry him again and she said no (which IMO why would you ask such a question when your marriage is already bad?) but he STILL tried, but things went downhill quickly. He then asked for a divorce. boymommy, here's what I'd ask all those, your BF included, who say marriage is just a piece of paper. Then why are you so afraid of divorce? It just dissolves the legal relationship, and with no kids or decades-long tenure involved, resets both partners. I'd guess his concerns are about more than just showing up one day at city hall... From what I gather he doesn't think it's just a piece of paper, but at the same time he is fearful of divorce because of his own divorce and his parent's. His own divorce however was a lot of his own doing and I am not exactly sure he understands that it takes two. He may still blame his ex wife for most of it since he is the one that walked away and he never sought therapy. Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 So being aware of his history with marriage you still cannot give this man another year? Like in my story, your bf is afraid of being controlled. He needs time to come to terms with that. Also, 2 years is not a lot of time to get to know someone and trust them fully with your future. More you talk marriage more he'll associate you with his ex controlling ways. You are after all giving him an ultimatum and that never ever has happy ending. What is the rush in getting married? Why is the time spent dating considered wasted time in your eyes? You have small children why rush in a marriage with a man you didn't know existed 2 years ago!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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