Rayce Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) What you think about this [mail order bride] industry? I personally see it as a form of human trafficking's. We had a civil war to do away with slaves... I think the problem that I have with it mostly is that American culture is very different from some of these under privilege's country. When a man goes and brings a bride from that... The difference in power is overwhelming. He has so much control and her life in American will actually depends on him and his whims. It would be different if both parties involved were on the same playing field but they aren't. Here is a link to the latest stats on the subject in our country. Published 10/11/2019 This report details takeaways and next steps from the HHS Health and Human Trafficking Symposium on November 28–29, 2018. The event was a 10-year followup to HHS’s 2008 National Symposium on the Health Needs of Human Trafficking Victims, which set an agenda for the past decade of research, policy, and practice at the intersection of health and human trafficking. The 2018 symposium reflected on accomplishments and progress in the human trafficking field over the past 10 years and emphasized areas for future work. https://aspe.hhs.gov/system/files/pdf/262596/hhs-2018-symposium-report-final.pdf Edited October 31, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Discussion of moderation redacted and member moderated 3 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I have this to say: If I cared anything about the person, I would get the greatest pleasure from setting them free from their subserviant roles, not keeping them in it for my own gain. After all, they want to come to America to get away from their life there, not to just continue in it amid a new culture. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rayce Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 I have this to say: If I cared anything about the person, I would get the greatest pleasure from setting them free from their subserviant roles, not keeping them in it for my own gain. After all, they want to come to America to get away from their life there, not to just continue in it amid a new culture. Yes and we have a legal process for that... its call immigration. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Have to agree about the power dynamic. Loss of citizenship can be held over someone’s head and even when that is gone lies and isolation can prevent someone from realizing they don’t need to be used. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) My dad it in 2010. He was 61 at the time and she was 37. He is a very selfish man who thinks women should treat him like a king. Everyone has different reasons, but my dad's reasons reflect someone who only in it for himself. Apart from living in a western country, he offers very little else. She "lumps" him just because living in California sure beats the slums of Manila. Edited October 30, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Topical material retained 5 Link to post Share on other sites
lana-banana Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Regardless of whether it constitutes trafficking, I find it unsettling in the extreme to deliberately seek out someone who will have to depend on you to survive. Unless she somehow has the means or the moxie to get out, she is stuck with you for seven years or more. How do you "pursue" someone knowing that you will effectively control them? How do you think they feel? You can't have anything approaching an equal relationship with that kind of imbalance. They can't disagree or even express themselves honestly on the same footing because they know so much of their life depends on keeping you happy. So it's really just a matter of finding whatever thing that pleases you the most. That seems more like shopping for an electronic device than finding a person to be compatible with you. It's also so racist to seek out Asian countries with the assumption that Asian women are man-worshipping domestic goddesses. One of my Korean friends would be furious when guys approached her assuming she'd be this dainty, sweet, subservient woman. She loved telling them she was a data scientist running her own company, thanks! (It also says a lot about the racist and imperialist origin of these fantasies that men always go to Asian countries but never, say, the middle East or southern Africa even when many countries there are far more patriarchal. It's almost like centuries of stereotypes have suggested those women are barbarians rather than delicate flowers.) I strongly support everyone's freedom to do what they want and I believe there's probably a lid for most pots if not all of them. But I also think that if you can't find romantic success in your own culture, or you are most successful in situations where the other person can't engage you as an equal, and has little to no ability to walk away---well, I think that's really telling and probably not in the way you'd like. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Too many -isms associated, male chauvinism, sexism, paternalism, racism, white supremacism, colonialism, imperialism,... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rayce Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Regardless of whether it constitutes trafficking, I find it unsettling in the extreme to deliberately seek out someone who will have to depend on you to survive. Unless she somehow has the means or the moxie to get out, she is stuck with you for seven years or more. How do you "pursue" someone knowing that you will effectively control them? How do you think they feel? You can't have anything approaching an equal relationship with that kind of imbalance. They can't disagree or even express themselves honestly on the same footing because they know so much of their life depends on keeping you happy. At least an indentured servant had the option of leaving after 7 years... in a marriage.. the person really doesn't. If they divorce and haven't reached the status of citizenship then they may face deportation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work for a particular employer for a fixed time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a specific payment or other benefit, or to meet a legal obligation, such as debt bondage. On completion of the contract, indentured servants were given their freedom, and occasionally plots of land. In many countries, systems of indentured labor have now been outlawed, and are banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a form of slavery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 A good-looking and wealthy man I'm acquainted (not friends) with divorced his wife from the USA because he wanted to dominate her, I was told by someone who knew him well, so they didn't get along. He went looking for a foreign wife and found a woman a bit younger than he from Ukraine who was very attractive. Men would probably call her a ten. He brought her over here and married her about fifteen years ago. They had a couple of children. She has turned out to have a very strong personality and character. She's now working as a clerk in a department store and she told me her husband doesn't approve of her working and especially of the job she's chosen. But, she loves it and isn't going to quit. She has also lost her good looks, although she's probably mid forties at most. She's kept trim but her face is ordinary now, not sure why. From what I know of him she's probably not someone he would choose were he to meet her at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 My only "real life" experience with this is a former neighbor. The husband was super weird and the wife was very immature. She wore ball gowns to the annual block party. She also told all of us other ladies in the neighborhood how she landed herself in the ER from rectal bleeding from all the anal sex, like that was a normal thing. I'm really not sure what went on behind closed doors, but it definitely did not seem like she was treated like an equal. She was an amazing seamstress though! Did a great job on my couch after my 2 year old son decorated it with a black permament marker. Link to post Share on other sites
Gretchen12 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 This horrible old geezer we worked with who was in his 70's, was marrying 19 or 20 year old young girls from rural China. A few years ago he was already on his 5th one, so by now, he's probably had more. He was bringing them over for his enjoyment, then he dumps them and go get a new virgin. Really sick stuff. I heard these girls had to go back to China because he didn't follow through. He only played them then dumped them. Is that not human trafficking?! Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Human Trafficking is highly organized and puts money in the pocket of cartels and organized crime. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/20-charged-in-crackdown-on-birth-tourism-to-u-s-by-chinese-women/ Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Western women freely bait and switch guys, use them for their money, marry and them under false pretenses and take half of what they had nothing to do with earning....Stories abound....Heck I even know a guy that was tricked by a lesbian because she wanted kids and a better quality of life....Only to take millions from him in a divorce.. Then throw rocks at guys that choose this option?? FOH... And who's to say that person cant organically fall in love with the one that is rescuing them from the despair of their life in their country?? I can easily see that happening... Last I checked, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head here..If these guys wind up getting shafted in the end when the woman get's brainwashed from the other angry/bitter women here, then so be it....Nothing is guaranteed-whether you choose this route or pick up the average Mary from Match.com..... If you want my opinion, its just another BS reason women try to squash competition...They feign compassion and concern for these women, yet would never bother involving themselves in such a cause if it didn't involve the thought that they felt a guy was cutting a corner to pass them by...I've even heard women ridiculing guys for choosing Asian women as closet pedophiles because these women tend to be smaller and more petite...Like heaven forbid a guy not want to be with the average 175++ pounders you have walking all around these days.. Understand this is nothing I would do, but know a guy who went this route and finally by the time this poor guy got his heart crushed and used up by the useless women he was trying to attract, at 50- something he is happy...Stop worrying about whether or not guys choose this route...Its their business and as long as we are talking consenting adults its no one else's business. TFY 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Certainly the situation makes abuse possible. That doesn't mean that abuse will occur. There are no doubt decent guys who have trouble finding women by the more regular means who sometimes go with this option. I think in the good cases (of which there are no doubt some out there) the woman gets a better lifestyle for herself and better chances for her kids (if any) than she presumably felt she had in her country. The guy gets a wife. In the bad cases - well, some of the stories above are presumably only scratching the surface, unfortunately. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Certainly the situation makes abuse possible. That doesn't mean that abuse will occur... In the bad cases - well, some of the stories above are presumably only scratching the surface, unfortunately. In the case I cited above I don't believe the woman was abused. Seems she's had a good life and is now doing what she wants to do, being a cashier in a department store. She told me she likes meeting a lot of various types of people she comes in contact with there and interacting with them. She doesn't need the money and her husband doesn't want her to work there so she obviously has the freedom to live the way she wants to live. The only other case I can think of seems to me to be a win-win for both the husband and wife (which the above situation probably is, too, IDK). I worried about him for a long time because he seemed to be a really nice guy who was dating a woman from the US known to be rough on men. She was quite attractive and had divorced several husbands. I won't write anymore about her except to say I believe he'd have made a mistake to marry her based on things other than her being divorced several times. Anyway, I began to notice they no longer seemed to be together and shortly thereafter I found out he'd just married a woman from an asian country. She appears to be about the same age as her husband and she also has a lovely and genuine aura about her. I've been very happy for both of them. Turns out he'd had an online friendship with this lady for years, not sure how many. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Love me some 90 day fiance drama! Tlc's portrayal is definitely not about weak women. And, from what I have seen in real life - I'm not seeing it there either. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The thing which stumps me in terms of the women from these countries being 'old fashioned' is that they aren't. 100 years ago, if a family was wealthy, they had servants to do all the dressing, folding, cooking etc. And this servant would have come from a poor, uneducated background much like the women men who choose this route want. If the family wasn't wealthy, the woman would certainly have been doing the domestics, but she would have been far too busy with housekeeping and children to wait hand and foot on her husband. Granted, I don't know the nuances of the history of multiple different cultures, but I don't know of any where the woman behaved as the man's personal valet. All in all though, I have no problem this mutually beneficial exchange between two consenting adults, but let's not pretend that she has old fashioned values. She is simply doing what she needs to do in order to escape the situation she's in - poverty and lack of education. And the guys I've seen with wives who are from the third world are mostly ones which western women wouldn't be interested in anyway. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 10 characters - misunderstood post. Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Love me some 90 day fiance drama! Tlc's portrayal is definitely not about weak women. And, from what I have seen in real life - I'm not seeing it there either. Same! Actually the Asian girlfriends/wives are very outspoken and wear the pants! Annie cracks me up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 She is simply doing what she needs to do in order to escape the situation she's in - poverty and lack of education. Very true. And I'd guess that for many of these women, an additional draw might be that they only have to sleep with ONE man for the rest of their lives, which is definitely preferable to an alternative choice of prostitution to feed their families. Choose a man who doesn't completely gross you out, and it's definitely a better life for you and your future children. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Same! Actually the Asian girlfriends/wives are very outspoken and wear the pants! Annie cracks me up. She's the one who is bankrolling David. I love her spunk. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Western women freely bait and switch guys, use them for their money, marry and them under false pretenses and take half of what they had nothing to do with earning....Stories abound....Heck I even know a guy that was tricked by a lesbian because she wanted kids and a better quality of life....Only to take millions from him in a divorce.. I recall years ago hearing the phrase “pussy cartel” and I never felt I understood what it meant. After reading this thread it’s become abundantly clear Jeez, slavery, trafficking, even racism! The myopia is breathtaking. Why do all these women presume to know what a woman in a country most of them haven’t even heard of, let alone been to, wants from their life? Try speaking on behalf of an Eastern European woman, I guarantee you’ll be in for a shock as there is great disdain in some quarters there for how women in the west live and treat their men. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 there is great disdain in some quarters there for how women in the west live and treat their men. I'm sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean the disdain is right, right? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Sometimes it's hard to determine who's the user, who's the (possible) abuser. Yes, an immigrant mail-order bride is at a disadvantage at first, but once she has a green card, she can leave him and must legally be supported by her ex for a period of time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I think the experiences of international dating can vary widely. Sometimes it could be used as a cover for human trafficking. I've looked at some of the dating sites in passing, and some of those Russian and Ukrainian girls look really sad even though they are trying to smile for the photo. Poor things. I can't adopt them all... Other times, pretty girls who can't get a work visa to the US get a fiance visa, stay married for a couple years, and then run off once they get the coveted green card. The knife definitely cuts both ways. And then, there are some happier stories. I know a man who met a Chinese girl online, brought her to the US, and they married having only known each other for a few days. Seven years and three kids later, they are still happy together. Definitely some cultural difficulties, but they worked through it. Whoever considers international dating would do well to fact-check any dating site or agency, spend a lot of quality time with whoever they meet, and make sure everything is OK before spending tons of money or marrying someone who won't be happy upon arrival. Link to post Share on other sites
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