Ruby Slippers Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I'd guess this 'industry' exists because it serves a need on both ends of the transaction... This is basically how I see it. I had a Russian friend in college who had a female cousin back in Russia who was desperate to escape her dating options in Russia and find a decent American guy to take care of her. She was advertising herself on lots of mail order bride websites. Her opinion was that Russian men who would marry her were, in general, fat, old, unattractive, domineering, alcoholics, and not anything she wanted to be associated with. For her, even the most average American guy would be an improvement. They are manipulated through family "honour" and "respect", culture and tradition, to go earn bigger money by prostitution or by marrying Western guys... A poor girl will feel she has no option but to comply. This is a problem. We'd hope that any decent guy wouldn't exploit a woman in this situation, but of course many would. However, this isn't just women. Many old-world parents make it very clear to the oldest son that he'll be expected to provide for the mother and siblings once the father dies, and will be considered a shameful failure if he doesn't. Perhaps this is why Asians are the highest earners, on average. How do you get around the fact that some people have kids essentially to serve their needs / take care of them and will pressure, guilt-trip, and abuse them to ensure it happens? My mom grew up on a big farm with many siblings, and it was openly understood that the reason for having all those kids was... free labor. My mom and her siblings had no choice but to work the land as long as they lived with their parents. It was hard, grueling work. During the busy season, they were forced to skip school so they could work more. Some might describe this as exploitation and abuse. For them, it was survival. You know the song line "every form of refuge has a price", right?? Yep. My most enticing options for marriage have been cases where the man made it clear he would never stop me from working, but as long as I was with him, I'd never have to work if I didn't want to. Personally, I haven't been able to make the compromises required - that is, it would need to based primarily in love; I can't go through the motions just for the benefits. But obviously, many women do. It seems to me that the majority of "kept women" are making conscious compromises to get the benefits they want, all over the world. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 However, this isn't just women. Many old-world parents make it very clear to the oldest son that he'll be expected to provide for the mother and siblings once the father dies, and will be considered a shameful failure if he doesn't. Perhaps this is why Asians are the highest earners, on average. Not just after the father dies... How do you get around the fact that some people have kids essentially to serve their needs / take care of them and will pressure, guilt-trip, and abuse them to ensure it happens?This is a real problem in Asian families. Note to the bride-seekers - as a son-in-law this expectation will apply to you too, if the family is traditional. Be warned. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 In many other countries, poverty keeps the sexual economy more balanced. Women will look beyond a man's looks if he has decent qualities and a chance of being a provider. Here in the US, men have a harder time finding a decent wife/girlfriend because the women are very picky, and many want to be treated like a princess. So, foreign women can find a decent-looking American man when their options at home are limited, and the American man can find decent-looking foreign women if their options are limited. It works out. And believe it or not, there's starting to be some international lesbian dating. Russian girls don't get to be openly lesbian at home, but if they find a girlfriend from the US, they can be brought in on a fiance visa. So the international dating market is offering equality in that way. Interesting to see. I don't think many "mail order" places exist. You can't just pick a woman out of a catalogue, pay a fee, and get her sent to the US. The law just doesn't allow that, for one thing. And if she isn't going through the fiance visa process, then she's an illegal immigrant. Foreign women should be wary of anything that sidesteps the visa process, because that's where the risk of prostitution lies. Then again, that isn't always the case. My husband's wife #2 came to the country at a young age, and has simply stayed. No visa process there... Definitely limits work opportunities, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 major_merrick, off topic, but have you written anywhere on this forum about the logistics and background of your non-traditional lifestyle? I'm curious about whether polygamy is legal where you are, how you arrived at this, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I.. I don't think many "mail order" places exist. You can't just pick a woman out of a catalogue, pay a fee, and get her sent to the US..... It used to be, and now it's a little more complicated than that and all internet based. There are rings smuggling people in containers for essentially sex slavery, you don't think the same exists for obstinately far more legitimate reasons? Whole dating sites just dedicated to US men seeking "traditional" foreign women. How do you think most of these meetings happen? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I don't think many "mail order" places exist. You can't just pick a woman out of a catalogue, pay a fee, and get her sent to the US. The law just doesn't allow that, for one thing. The vast majority of the websites are credit card scams. I've read news stories of a few that "worked" in the US though, and seen them happen in other countries too. Some did get "legal" visas. Not sure if the process by which they were obtained was very legal, though... Link to post Share on other sites
BC1980 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 So I'm somewhat familiar with this process because I work with several women who are from Asian countries that moved to the US to marry an American citizen. The end goal is becoming an American citizen. These women came here of their own free will. Much of the reason is that there are more economic and professional opportunities for these women in the US. These women are nurses and can make far more money as a nurse in the US compared to the countries they are from. To be honest, they have a better work ethic than most of my co-workers. They appreciate the opportunity to earn money because they understand what it is like not to have that opportunity. This is a very real reason that I haven't seen mentioned (unless I missed it). 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 This is basically how I see it. I had a Russian friend in college who had a female cousin back in Russia who was desperate to escape her dating options in Russia and find a decent American guy to take care of her. She was advertising herself on lots of mail order bride websites. Her opinion was that Russian men who would marry her were, in general, fat, old, unattractive, domineering, alcoholics, and not anything she wanted to be associated with. For her, even the most average American guy would be an improvement. Agreed. My only real first-hand experience with this is a couple we met through my wife's patronage of her nail salon. She is Vietnamese, mid-30's and stunning in appearance. Her husband, 30+ years her senior, is a Navy vet who met her overseas. Been out with them a couple of times and they freely discussed her requirements when they married, which included a house for them, separate house for her family and a business she could manage. They both seemed relaxed, happy and comfortable with the situation. Different strokes... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
BC1980 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I think it varies widely. Three of the couples I know are perfectly happy, and it works well for them. They miss home and their families, but they feel that they made the right decision. They simply have more opportunities here. Like I said, I know one couple that got divorced, but she still lives and works here. She is not a citizen yet, but she is working towards that. I'm sure there are bad stories out there, but bad things happen in traditional marriages too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 One of my childhood friend’s mother was a mail order bride. Her father lived rurally as he was a farmer, I would assume there were not a lot of dating options. She came from England in the ‘60’s - they married, farmed together, and raised three children. They were a very happy family and as a child, I thought it was such a “romantic” story... And yet, even as a child I knew that this relationship was very transactional. He needed a wife, someone to help him farm and with whom he could have children, and she met that need. Thankfully, I do believe it became a love match but I’m quite sure this is not always the case... I find it rather distasteful that men who fail with dating or just seek a young and subservient woman plan to go to other countries to find their bride. And yet, it seems to me that some men are actually exploited by women who clearly have an agenda and seek to take advantage of their naivety. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 ... I find it rather distasteful that men who fail with dating or just seek a young and subservient woman plan to go to other countries to find their bride. And yet, it seems to me that some men are actually exploited by women who clearly have an agenda and seek to take advantage of their naivety. Maybe it's not a match made in heaven but the other place, or perhaps more a deal with its chief resident. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Yes, old fashioned marriages were entirely transactional. Basically, he got a woman who would care for his home and she got a roof over her head and children. Yes, there were love matches too, but they were rare enough to actually coin the phrase. Changes to women's rights such as education, paid employment and the right to own property are the things which have lifted marriage outside of the realms of transactional. Women who don't have these things are the ones who still have to make transactional marriages. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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