Not free to disagree

[Fair]

How many of you have had the experience of having a friend or romantic partner you can't disagree with in the slightest... meaning you can't have your own opinion.

 

I disagreed with a friend about ADHD and was dumped over it. I'm one of those people who don't believe ADHD exists. Her daughter was diagnosed with it, and I expressed my opinion about ADHD without thinking, though I never once denied she and her daughter are struggling.

 

 

It's a difference of opinion, not grounds for expulsion.

 

What are your opinions? I can even stand ones that differ from my own. Go figure!

[basil67]

This isn't a difference of opinion about which season is more pleasant. Or cats vs dogs. This was you dismissing her son's diagnosis, the doctors who've helped him and the DSM as if you know more than they do.

 

The fact that you feel this was a slight disagreement is indeed grounds for expulsion. A bit of self awareness on your part wouldn't go astray.

[Fair]

I think that's your opinion, basil.

 

I wasn't dismissing the fact she's struggling with her daughter... I am a little doubtful as to the underlying cause of the trouble. I just don't believe in ADHD, I never did.

 

I think you and she have the same mindset but I think it's a little immature. I wouldn't throw someone out with the trash for not believing a certain 'condition' exists.

 

That said, I'm tired. Life is too short to walk on eggshells around people who think a difference of opinion is a personal attack. I'm hardly a bad person. But I'm not going to try to prove it. If I'm judged negatively so easily by someone I considered a friend, they were never a friend.

[preraph]

I agree with basil. This wasn't a casual subject. It's a subject close to her to do with the person she loves the most and is trying the hardest to take care of. she likely knows way more about the subject than you do since she's dealing with it in real life. So it was insulting to her.

[central]

I wouldn't tolerate someone who didn't respect my opinion. Of course, some opinions are ignorant or toxic, and I would seldom tolerate those from anyone if directed at me, and I suppose I could be wrong or misinformed, too. Of course, I am usually open to being proven wrong using logic and data.

[central]

I'll add that unless you've studied or researched the issue, or are a medical professional in this field and can clearly explain your view and offer viable alternatives, your opinion is unhelpful, unjustified and insulting.

[Fair]

The mental health field is extremely faulty. I know because of my own experiences with it. I don't just automatically swallow it whole when these so called mental health professionals dole out their 'diag-nonsense.' There are so many reasons people can be struggling and it doesn't necessarily mean they have a mental health disorder.

 

If it was my kid, I would be turning over every leaf to try to find a solution. that, to me, would be more important than my pride over thinking I was being thought of as 'wrong'. I think people like this just can't tolerate the thought of possibly being wrong. Not that I told her she was... I just advised her to be careful and to look into other possibilities which was my way of being supportive and helpful.

[Fair]

I'll add that unless you've studied or researched the issue, or are a medical professional in this field and can clearly explain your view and offer viable alternatives, your opinion is unhelpful, unjustified and insulting.

 

I disagree. And I do know what I'm talking about. Medical professionals don't know it all. They don't know much, in fact. It looks at human beings through a very narrow scope. A one sheet questionnaire buys you a label with a stigma attached to it that you have to carry around with you for life whether or not it's even accurate. Not to mention long term affects of being on medications begun in childhood. Now children are hopped up on pills. Children. Think about that. And mainly only because the drug companies want everyone taking drugs.... hence all these new and fancy disorders that may or may not even exist.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Fair

[Fair]

Also this friend I've known since childhood, and since childhood she's been known as someone who can't take anyone disagreeing with her. About anything. It's so stupid I'm not even upset anymore. I was trying to help in my own way. It wasn't her way, or your way... but it was mine. You can't have a closed mind if you sincerely want answers. None of the pills shoved down this child's neck have been doing her a damned bit of good.

[Beendaredonedat]

This isn't a difference of opinion about which season is more pleasant. Or cats vs dogs. This was you dismissing her son's diagnosis, the doctors who've helped him and the DSM as if you know more than they do.

 

The fact that you feel this was a slight disagreement is indeed grounds for expulsion. A bit of self awareness on your part wouldn't go astray.

 

I agree with that ^^^

 

My goodness you, by having such an opinion, you basically told your friend that her child was just a bad seed which reflected on her.

 

Not cool, sorry but I think Basil is right on.

[central]

I disagree. And I do know what I'm talking about. Medical professionals don't know it all. They don't know much, in fact. It looks at human beings through a very narrow scope. A one sheet questionnaire buys you a label with a stigma attached to it that you have to carry around with you for life whether or not it's even accurate. Not to mention long term affects of being on medications begun in childhood. Now children are hopped up on pills. Children. Think about that. And mainly only because the drug companies want everyone taking drugs.... hence all these new and fancy disorders that may or may not even exist.

 

Fair enough. However, your friend apparently does not agree with you - or with how you presented your opinion. Often, it's not what you believe, but how you communicate it that matters most. I have friends whose children have been helped tremendously by ADHD medications. Perhaps there are other options and alternatives, but they aren't necessarily easy to find, or able to be implemented successfully.

[major_merrick]

Fair, I agree with your perspective and some medical folks that I know would agree (to some extent) as well. However, as you can tell by the average opinions on this forum, the idea of medical dissent is completely rejected by many in modern society. Thus, the rejection you experienced from your friend. People have been taught to accept at face value the things that are said by people wearing white coats, and get offended if you ask them to think otherwise.

Sometimes, it is also about presentation. Those of us who are medical dissenters can come on a bit strong when presenting our case to people who still rely totally on the modern medical system. It takes practice to soft-sell new ideas, especially when it comes to topics we are passionate about. People can mistake genuine passion and caring for being argumentative, and they will get offended. I'm not saying that how you made your case was wrong, but it might help to review in your mind the conversations you had with your friend.

 

At the end of the day, it is difficult to have a close friendship with someone whose life experience and values are significantly different from your own. I'm sorry that you got hurt, but it is one of the unfortunate realities of our modern experience.

[Scarlett.O'hara]

Depending on what someone is going through, I think some opinions can be trigger points, and for that reason they shouldn't be discussed if you care about the other person's feelings or if it doesn't have some benefit.

 

For example, if you were talking to your friend about struggles with anxiety and depression and she told you that she didn't believe they were real conditions, would that be okay with you? Even if she was to acknowledge the depth of those struggles, would that be much consolation?

 

Could you put it aside as just her opinion, knowing what a battle it has been? Would you feel supported or ridiculed and defensive? Would it make you question why she would say that to you in the first place? These are just some of the questions that spring to mind.

 

I understand that you're upset right now because of what has happened, but when things calm down, maybe you can reflect on it and try to see how it would feel if the situations were reversed?

 

Sometimes we say the wrong thing or make a mistake that results in a punishment that feels excessive, like being dumped by a friend or lover. I know how easy it can be to go on the defensive and feel harshly judged when you didn't intentionally mean to hurt someone, but we have to accept the consequences for our actions.

 

In time though, there might be something you can learn from it.

[LivingWaterPlease]

basil and central, while I get what you're saying and wouldn't discount a diagnoses someone was given by a health care professional, I've had it done to me and can attest it's possible to offer grace to the friend and continue to enjoy the friendship.

 

A friend basically told me that if I had faith in God I wouldn't have the condition I'd been diagnosed with; that there really was no actual condition, just lack of faith. At the time I was quite ill to the point of needing hospitalization.

 

Now I'm a very strong believer in God and have much faith in Him.

 

But, instead of writing my friend off, I just chalked it up in my mind to his ignorance. I kept loving (platonic) my friend because he just didn't know the facts about that particular thing.

 

His unbelief in my condition didn't invalidate either my condition or my feelings for him as a friend or his feelings for me.

[Gaeta]

A one sheet questionnaire buys you a label with a stigma attached to it

False.

 

There is no single test used to diagnose ADHD. Experts diagnose ADHD after a person has shown some or all of the symptoms on a regular basis for more than six months and in more than one setting.

The diagnosis involves gathering information from several sources, including schools, caregivers, and parents

 

https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/diagnosing-adhd#1

 

 

.

[SumGuy]

I’m with basil on this as well. I don’t care for opinions that are ignorant and toxic and invalidating someone actual experience, calling such things opinions doesn’t remove the smell of where they are pulled from.

 

For the record I believe ADGD is greatly over diagnosed in the US, but having read the actual data, the actual clinical trials, it does exist in my learned opinion.

 

It’s not so an opinion that I would drop someone for it is how the come about it, what it says about there worldview versus mine.

[Fair]

False.

 

There is no single test used to diagnose ADHD. Experts diagnose ADHD after a person has shown some or all of the symptoms on a regular basis for more than six months and in more than one setting.

The diagnosis involves gathering information from several sources, including schools, caregivers, and parents

 

https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/diagnosing-adhd#1

 

 

.

 

It's still not the only possible cause. Six months, ten months... there are other things it could be that have similarities and overlapping symptoms. People are complex and sometimes given pills for personality traits that for that specific person are actually just normal. We don't all 'fit in' to a society that expects us all to get on the same treadmill and run. Some of us will have problems doing it. Not because we're ill, necessarily, but because we're individuals.

 

I have no diagnosis for my friends daughter. I'm just aware the world isn't black and white.

[SumGuy]

...couldn’t edit...ADHD I meant to say not ADHD

[Beendaredonedat]

It's still not the only possible cause. Six months, ten months... there are other things it could be that have similarities and overlapping symptoms. People are complex and sometimes given pills for personality traits that for that specific person are actually just normal. We don't all 'fit in' to a society that expects us all to get on the same treadmill and run. Some of us will have problems doing it. Not because we're ill, necessarily, but because we're individuals.

 

I have no diagnosis for my friends daughter. I'm just aware the world isn't black and white.

 

But what has all that got to do with how you offended your friend with your opinion? I think, and with all due respect that you focus on what your opinion did to your friend and less on being so adamant about your beliefs. You lost a friend over it after all.

[Gaeta]

It's still not the only possible cause.

I agree, and I also agree doctors are too quick on the pills when sports seem to have a lot of positive effects on those children. I wanted to point though that those diagnostics are not done so quickly. Here with a diagnostic the child is entitled to special services paid by government and some parents wait 1-2-3 years for a diagnostic.

[SumGuy]

It's still not the only possible cause....

I have no diagnosis for my friends daughter. I'm just aware the world isn't black and white.

? What ? You made it black and white by saying ADHD doesn’t exist. You didn’t say it could be ADHD but it could be something else.

 

Of course you have no diagnosis as I suspect you really have no knowledge about these things. And by that I mean more than can be obtained from the internet.

[Fair]

I’m with basil on this as well. I don’t care for opinions that are ignorant and toxic and invalidating someone actual experience, calling such things opinions doesn’t remove the smell of where they are pulled from.

 

For the record I believe ADGD is greatly over diagnosed in the US, but having read the actual data, the actual clinical trials, it does exist in my learned opinion.

 

It’s not so an opinion that I would drop someone for it is how the come about it, what it says about there worldview versus mine.

 

Like I already said I didn't come across as rude or abrasive. People here are just INSISTING that I did. I don't treat my friends caustically. I was trying to help in my own way and can't help it if everyone here is dreaming up the way they think the situation went down.

 

I don't believe ADHD exists. You people will just have to live with that.

[major_merrick]

Fair, in substance, I mostly agree with your perspective on ADHD. However, communication is what the thread is about. And I think you've demonstrated here that your communication skills could use a bit of touching-up, which is why people are assuming that you spoke to your friend in the same manner. I'm trying not to assume, I'm just feeling the temperature of the room.

 

I am usually the most aggressive girl in the room. I've learned that my method of speaking is not always the most endearing, and that sometimes the tone can put people off of the truth I am trying to share with them. So I've learned to modify how I present things so as to retain the audience. You can be perfectly correct in your facts, but if you lose your audience, what have you gained?

 

Sometimes, you'll have ardent, sincere opponents that you just can't convince. They might be annoying or at times even offensive, but it doesn't make that person a troll. My lifestyle is different, and I've taken a lot of heat on this forum. I'm still here. Consider it an honor, actually, when you are facing opposition. You'll always catch flak when you're "over the target."

[Artdeco]

Back to the OT. I can somewhat relate. I have a friend, a very good friend actually, whose child is “diagnosed” with ADHD. Since age 9 (!!)....... The child also takes meds for that, but the child has grown up, and also has become very disrespectful and a lazy teenager. So of course - and I’m just a friend with no experience with kids and I’m always the skeptical one - I think this is BS - and if you are 16 and you cannot treat your mom with respect, then I’m the first one who believes adhd is just an excuse ..... not only for the kids but especially for the parents. Because I’m sorry but sometimes I think all that parents are looking for are excuses. My kid behaves horribly. He’s being bullied. My kid is overweight. He’s a stress eater. My kid is behaving horribly in school. ADHD. My kid gets bad grades. The teacher is an idiot. Gahhhh.

 

But there is also another aspect to this. If this is your very good friends child and this is a friend you’ve known for multiple decades, like you said, I think it shouldn’t be too hard for you to treat her with kindness. I’m sure she’s going through some struggles. Having a difficult child is not a joyride. And you as a friend, as a long-term friend, you should be there for her rather than judging her and throwing it in her face that she’s an idiot or a bad parent .. Not cool.

 

Also - what’s up with all the troll calling in this thread? Jesus. People have been banned for less.

[BluEyeL]

Fair, it's just not OK what you did. It's not about believing or not believing in ADHD, it's about you being very insensitive to your friend's feelings. I believe all sort of things, but I try to not tell my friends anything that would make them feel attacked in their parenting, or criticized.

 

Maybe you don't have children, and it's hard for you to understand what you did wrong. But yes, you are in the wrong, and no, she didn't drop you because of a difference in opinion, it was because you insulted her and her kid.

 

It would be good if you apologize and told her you understand how insenstive you were.