Path to Forgiveness

[JuneGirl]

I have heard that letting go of all the past hurt that people have caused to you is completely freeing. That it is not about them, but more about you. Its about not having that pain have that intense control over you aka trust issues or bittnerness, or social anxiety, and all the problems that stem from it, that limit personal growth.

I am definitely trying to forgive a lot of things: straight up lying, betrayals, cheating, mean people, bullies, backstabbers, emotional abuse, etc.

Sometimes I honestly want to forgive, but then when faced with those same behaviors. But it seems like I've mastered the art of blocking it out (forgetting) but then when reminded of the bad stuff, I am back to being all hurt again.

What is forgiveness to you, and how do you go about that process?

Do you let other people know that you forgive them, or is it something that you do just in your own mind?

Can you forgive without reconciliation?

I posted in the spiritual and religious beliefs section, I welcome all point of views, religious, spiritual, logical, factual, etc and everything in between.

Edited March 6, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[preraph]

Oh, it does suck. What other people did to you hurts you and suffering from it never hurts them, as it seems like it ought to. That's reason enough to walk away from it as soon as you can. I would never forgive someone who wounded me to the point of fully engaging with them again, but I did forgive one enough to have a casual acquaintance with him, because on one level we do miss each other. But I'd never give him my heart again, ever, ever. I was in bad shape after him, though I think a lot of it on his end was his lack of insight, and that's what made me able to move away from it in the end. At some point, I went, you know, he's not so much evil as just stupid and has no insight.

[JuneGirl]

Sorry there are some mistakes in my post I'm unable to edit, I meant to say Sometimes I honestly want to forgive, but then when faced with those same behaviors, I seem to get hurt again.

 

I have trust issues now, like serious trust issues, that I'm not even sure if mastering forgiveness can cure.

 

 

I can forgive people for past things, sure, but now I have to be completely cautious going forward.

 

 

I learned a really interesting lesson though, everyone behaves and is pleasant in the good times, its when the bad times come or in moment's of weakness, the actual true colors of a person's core beneath all the fake masks come forth.

 

 

Maybe forgiveness has to do with detaching from the pain somehow, to be able to live normally and happily, but acknowledging that individual is still very bad for you and that you should still not engage with them.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

 

Maybe forgiveness has to do with detaching from the pain somehow, to be able to live normally and happily, but acknowledging that individual is still very bad for you and that you should still not engage with them.

 

Yes, absolutely. Forgiveness is choosing not to hold the misdeed against the person anymore, but it does not mean that you excuse or condone the act, OR that you have to have that person in your life anymore. I learned the hard way that forgiveness does NOT have to lead to reconciliation to be true forgiveness. Sometimes reconciliation is a huge mistake! You can say "that person is messed up and what they did to me was bad, but that's their problem now. It doesn't affect me and my life anymore" and not have them in your life anymore for your own health and/or safety.

 

Forgiveness is a choice. A conscious decision. It's not because the other person's behavior deserves to be excused. Often it does not. But, I will tell you, it IS very, very freeing in a way that's hard to describe unless you've done it.

[major_merrick]

The way I understand it, forgiveness is consciously withholding your right to vengeance. And after you do that, you try to reduce the emotion surrounding what they did to you by giving the whole situation up to God. You ask God to do what He wants with it, and trust that He will judge or not as He sees fit. It is no longer your problem. You forgive for two reasons. First, God expects you to forgive because He has forgiven you. Second, you do it for your own mental health. Getting revenge and doing it right is hard work! It also chews a lot of people up inside. Third, forgiveness means you are still in control. You made the choice. Maybe you had some help from God getting there, but it was your choice. When you've been a victim, it gives you agency in your life again.

 

That said, forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation. Ideally, people would reconcile. God prefers it, if possible. But if the other party is unrepentant, dead, or somehow inaccessible, then reconciliation is not an option. And you aren't obligated to put yourself in harm's way again. God expects you to do the smart thing and take care of yourself, because you have rights too! If someone keeps hurting you, you can let them know you forgive them, but you can also let them know that you can't reconcile and have a friendship or relationship unless they make a change that you can trust. Trust doesn't get rebuilt overnight, it is earned based on evidence.

 

 

I've dealt with forgiveness a lot in recent weeks. My abusive mother just died. And my sister drugged and assaulted me. I'd have every right to press charges and seek vengeance, but I still love her and I'm trying to help her. Forgiveness takes work. It is emotional and heavy. And you don't just say "I forgive you" and it is done and over with. It ends up being a continuous thing. You choose daily to lay aside vengeance. I come from a culture of vengeance, family feuds, and dueling. Pistols at dawn, if you will. Forgiveness is not natural, but you can learn it.

Edited November 4, 2019 by major_merrick

[JuneGirl]

@CautiouslyOptimistic Okay thats good to know I can forgive without having that person in my life anymore. I agree reconciliation can be the worst thing in many cases. I've been working really hard to forgive today, and I felt for the first time a weight lifted, and a little bit more free. I think I'm just going to practice this continuously in my mind everyday

 

 

 

 

@major_merrick your post speaks to me. Consciously withholding right to vengeance and giving up the situation to God is such a powerful move. The only way I'm able to cope is lately telling myself that God is after the all the most just Being. And yes, I've been looking at how God forgives us as inspiration!! Totally agree with you on the bit about forgiveness does not mean reconciliation (depending on the circumstance). And I'm sooo sorry to hear that you went through that! Sending prayers and good wishes your way. I also agree with you that forgiveness is not natural, its DIFFICULT and requires so much will power and mental effort and tears sometimes. I hope you find healing and inner peace with what you are going through.

[basil67]

There is a person in my history who I had to forgive misdeeds towards myself and my family.

 

I still think he's a POS and I wouldn't pee on him if he was on fire. But I chose to let go of the anger I feel towards him. For me, it was about not giving him that power over me. It did take a while to process all the anger though. I couldn't let go until I was ready.

[Justanaverageguy]

As the saying goes: Holding onto anger - is like you drinking poison and then expecting the other person to die.

 

In reality the damage is all inwards to yourself - to your state of mind - to your well being. Any short lived satisfaction you may get from your dreamed about revenge pales into insignificance when compared with the emotional turmoil you inflict on yourself and those close to you by holding onto this anger. When you release it and let go you are free.

 

And forgiveness doesn't mean you don't take steps to avoid being hurt again - or even potentially limit your interaction with the person in future. It simply means you release the the pain, the anger, the hurt and regret - you release the blame and need for payback on the other person - so you can move on and be free. This ^^^^^ is easy to say of course and makes perfect sense - the hard part is how to actually do it when the emotional pain within ourselves is so high.

 

I'm no expert on this - but a buddhist teacher I like - Thich Nhat Hahn - says the secret to forgiveness lies always in - "recognizing the other persons suffering". As a general rule - hurt people .... will hurt people. Those who inflict suffering on others generally do so because they themselves have a deep seated sense of unhappiness within them. Maybe this stems from child hood neglect. Maybe from a crushed ego from a painful breakup/divorce or continual rejection. Maybe from not being recognized and appreciated and so seeking outward validation in unhealthy places. Or maybe even from something as simple as being overworked and over stressed.

 

It can be very hard for us to do this when we ourselves are suffering as a direct result of this other person. But if we can sit with the pain without lashing out ..... and

then see past the other persons actions to see where the actions came from - from there own unhappiness - we see this pain we are now experiencing as a stream that didn't really come from the person - but has rather been past along between many people all of whom were suffering until it eventually reached to touch you.

 

Sometimes something magical can arise when we understand this. Compassion. Yes compassion for the one who hurt us and even past them to the one who hurt them. We see the damaged person who hurt us and recognize how much they themselves are suffering. We feel sorry for them. For how unhappy they are and how much they suffer causing them to mistreat others around them as a result. Even if just for a moment - we can see past our own pain and realize we have a choice ..... to become apart of the stream of pain and suffering and continue to spread it to others around you as the person before you did ..... or to end the stream. To cut it off so it flows now further. ..... to forgive.

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Justanaverageguy

[mark clemson]

There was a person in college who, in my view, was quite petty and did some rather cruel things to me. He was bi and I (respectfully, I felt) rebuffed his advances. I guess he was hurt, though because one thing he did was set up my recently broken-up with GF with someone else. He also apparently convinced some of his friends (who didn't really know me or her that well) to say some pretty mean things to me "at random" about it. He did a few other things as well.

 

I truly hated that guy after what he did. It took me many years to forgive him, but eventually I did.

 

On a lark I looked him up on the internet several years ago. One thing that happened to him, a few years after college, was that he lost his right arm in a car accident.

 

This made me glad that I forgave him.

[JuneGirl]

@basil67 I'm really glad you were able to let that go and that you were able to process it in your own time, that's so important and it can't be rushed. Healing takes time. I think I'm starting to understand what forgiveness is, you can let go of the pain, but still be detached enough to think that the person who hurt you is still a POS, because they're just bad for you to engage with. I'm really glad you were able to let it go.

 

 

@Justanaverageguy Thanks for your comment. I like that: hurt people will hurt people. The goal is to remove myself from the grips of the pain, and just look at the outcome objectively, just like how you mentioned. And looks like the buddhist teaching really helps guide in that direction to mental detachment yet feeling compassion and freedom. I very much appreciate buddhist outlook on life.

 

 

@markclemson Sorry that you had to deal with that, sometimes people do such terrible things that it definitely takes years to forgive but its all part of your healing process and its a really powerful move on your part that you forgave him even though it took you years to overcome it!

[Justanaverageguy]

I think I'm starting to understand what forgiveness is, you can let go of the pain, but still be detached enough to think that the person who hurt you is still a POS, because they're just bad for you to engage with. I'm really glad you were able to let it go.

 

Hmmmm I think ideally when we forgive we don't think of the person as a POS. That still indicates we are holding onto malice and judgement towards the person even if we don't act on it. It can in many circumstances be healthy to recognize that they have personal issues or unhealthy behavioral problems - and so it would be wise for us to avoid engaging closely with them in future.

 

But if we forgive truly from the heart - we no longer hold that malice or negative judgement of the person themselves. In fact to truly forgive it must be released. That's the "path" where true freedom comes. Because we now look at the person differently - the emotions we feel about them and their actions change. Instead of seeing a POS - a terrible human being - who we are angry at and feel the need to judge or gossip or look down on. We instead see someone who is dysfunctional and hurting themselves and others around them. The change of view causes the anger, judgment and dislike to morph into concern and compassion. We wish the best for them going forward recognizing that their healing and happiness would be beneficial for everyone. You actually want good things for them - thats true forgiveness when you can bless someone who hurts you.

 

It may be a bit childish - but I recall reading a story as a child - can't remember the name of it - about a wild animal that was terrorizing a town - I think it was a bear. Everyone was terrified and the towns people made plans to kill the bear - but a little girl figured out the animal had its foot stuck in a trap and was in pain. After removing the trap the animal stopped terrorizing the town and it went back to being peaceful place. Forgiveness requires you to look closely and see the painful mental/emotional "traps" attached to the person ..... not simply the crazy hurtful behaviour. Maybe my own view on this comes from having gone through a period a few years back following a divorce where I recognize I acted very hurtfully towards others - as a result of my own pain. When I see someone now acting out and hurting others, being a "dick" or involved in some scandal ..... I can look at them differently now. You see the real underlying cause and problem - the pain or ignorance - and don't judge the "symptoms" as much. Of course its harder to do and requires more effort - when we are the one hurt by their actions.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Justanaverageguy

[JuneGirl]

omg you're so right, see I am struggling with that so much. I am holding so much judgement right now for the people that hurt me. I hope to come to a place where I am not so upset about it.

 

 

I'm just so angry that they wasted my time and lied and betrayed, especially when they started the relationship saying they hate liars and betrayers. I instantly trusted them because of it. I have been pretty naive.

 

 

I think I need to take some time reflecting on how to let go of the malice and negative judgement. It really is difficult.

[Justanaverageguy]

omg you're so right, see I am struggling with that so much. I am holding so much judgement right now for the people that hurt me. I hope to come to a place where I am not so upset about it.

 

I think I need to take some time reflecting on how to let go of the malice and negative judgement. It really is difficult.

 

Don't worry - its difficult for everyone and can simply take some time before we have processed enough to be able to move to that higher - healthier happier space. But you will get there. Its great that you are actually conscious and aware enough of your state of mind - and wanting and willing to channel it in positive directions. Thats the biggest step

[JuneGirl]

I'm really trying to read all kinds of things about forgiveness, and I'm experiencing totally opposite emotions: either I start to cry or feel detached about it once the pain fades.

 

 

 

I guess maybe every time I feel pain, I should follow it up with positive and hopeful thoughts, instead of indulging in it.

[todreaminblue]

when people really hurt you either physically mentally or emotionally(and i'm not talking little hurts easily forgiven) they take a piece of you with them,the type of hurt that rips you up is what i'm talking about...the unforgivable that you need to forgive...pain that is deep seated in your soul where pieces of your innocence and true love exists to be nurtured instead......there's a black hole ..or there is with me ...im full of scarred sadness holes

 

some of us have holes from the people who give you the type of pain that makes you question your own faith the goodness in peoples you havent know or will know.... and the goodness inherent in you..with that pain and the non forgiveness you feel deep down those people who hurt you have access to take who you really are and meant to be from you(they take pure joy and personal peace and replace it with misdirection,grief loss and fear..

 

what those people take, twists you in regards to how you treat others...how you treat yourself how you will treat the people you cross paths with in the future....

 

 

..forgiveness is the place where you can get back to be close to whole,where scars heal(sounds like poetry to me) you get that joy back that peace back and on the path to forgiveness you lose fear grief and loss ever so slowly......but you wont forget how those things feel to have in you ....you have restored faith and hope at the place called forgiveness...but you have scars getting to that forgiveness place....its better to have scars than having no knowledge of the path to forgiveness....

 

Jesus said when asked by peter .."how many times should i forgive my brother ...till seven times?" and jesus answered "...i say not unto thee seven times but seventy times seven" .....

matthew 18 21-22

 

 

when i have to really work at forgiving someone......i think of jesus and what he forgave....He is my role model my protector of my heart and all my holes....he loves me regardless of how hurt i am or how hard i have to work at getting over being hurt........he has the best heart of all time....his level of forgiveness he had to give....will never be surpassed and if he did that for us..the level of pain and suffering and yes torture he went through and still forgave...for all of us...i can try my best to forgive another who needs forgiveness as much as i....

 

i can can try my utmost to forgive for the people who have hurt me...will hurt me.and hurt me still....that however doesn't mean forget...or even to forgive unconditionally ...i work my guts out forgiving......i never will be that enlightened on earth that forgiveness comes easily..if i ever owned a farm i would call the farm forgiveness so i would be reminded every single day its the best place to be...i believe when our tiem si up on earth and we pass over.....we will be enlightened to gods plan that he has for us.....everythign will be dealt with accordingly...justice...peace and love.....will be on tap....it will pour down on us like silver rain.....had to add and edit this bit for some positivity....

god gave us power to seek and find forgiveness and i truly believe to activate that power you have to work at it.....its sometimes brutal and it is soul searching work....and when i have trouble i give it to god in prayer i let him know ...hey its deb i'm struggling again with this...help me...i need some respite....its getting hard down here....

 

you know what i feel the end of the world is and will be...armageddon......is where forgiveness will be forgotten....forgiveness will be a place that is no longer visited...where the world and all that live and breath on it no longer seek to forgive.....but seek....to war...instead of peace..and never forgive.......it is inevitable....

 

but...i dont have to be part of that bleakness and war....so i look to god to help me....i look to jesus for inspiration and to be a guide for my heart and a protector.... and i try my very best to remember i need forgiveness to be given to me too to those i trespass on their peace of heart...always...not even seven times...not seventy times...but seventy times seven......i need forgiveness....i wish you peace my friend and forgiveness to be the place you know well.....deb

Edited November 6, 2019 by todreaminblue

[chillii]

ln my experience, forgiving the wrong people is for you and your peace because it'll be a waste of time on them. They might even think it was you in the wrong but they're forgiving you and seem or act completely blinded to what they actually did.

But forgiving the right person is for both, their peace your peace.

But l don't go round telling people l forgive them , not unless it's someone very close but otherwise , they'll just know by my actions , or they should.

[JuneGirl]

Thanks chilli, yeah I don't plan on telling certain people oh hi I forgive you, but I do want my actions and behavior to show that their behavior has no hold on me. I'm not going to do revenge, just my actions will show moving onward and upward, no matter how much I'm hurting.

 

 

 

Honestly this is harder than I thought, I spent the last 2 days crying to get the hurt out. I feel sad mostly. I do hope I come to feeling peace or something resembling it.

[basil67]

I would like to add that unlike Major Merrick, forgiveness would have been a whole lot quicker and easier if the police had been able to link him to the crime and he could have been punished by full force of the law. We all knew it was him, the police were sure of it too...but not enough evidence.

[skywriter]

For myself forgiveness comes from a place of faith, courage, widsom, a desire, or even determination to move forward, letting go, (hence having faith), (lifes field will yield as we make it).

 

Forgiveness for me is more for myself than the actual act of forgiving, it's about growing, and inner strength. It doesn't require the one being forgiven to be acknowledged in any way. In fact just because they're forgiven doesn't mean forgetting, it's about coming to terms with whatever it is, that needs to be put to rest.

 

Forgiveness is loving yourself enough to release whatever you need to be free of. No, I don't let them know and I do the forgiving through prayer and meditation.

[JuneGirl]

I'm working through the painful memories, rather than blocking them out. Revisiting memories is painful but its helping me work through them, so I can overcome them with indifference or detachment, if they ever do cross my mind.

 

 

Because of this, I have been completely miserable this last week or so since I started the thread.

 

 

Maybe its good because all the blocked memories and blocked emotions are coming forth.

 

 

I do realize this is a process only for me, no one else.

[skywriter]

It sounds like a time of personal growth and something you need to go through to get on the other side of it.

Edited November 12, 2019 by skywriter

[JuneGirl]

I think I'm getting there. Maybe this doesn't work for many people, but empathizing with the person who hurt me is actually making me feel so much better.

 

 

Taken from mayoclinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/forgiveness/art-20047692

 

 

What happens if I can't forgive someone?

 

 

Forgiveness can be challenging, especially if the person who's hurt you doesn't admit wrong. If you find yourself stuck:

 

• Practice empathy. Try seeing the situation from the other person's point of view.
  
• Ask yourself why he or she would behave in such a way. Perhaps you would have reacted similarly if you faced the same situation.
  
• Reflect on times you've hurt others and on those who've forgiven you.
  
• Write in a journal, pray or use guided meditation — or talk with a person you've found to be wise and compassionate, such as a spiritual leader, a mental health provider, or an impartial loved one or friend.
  
• Be aware that forgiveness is a process, and even small hurts may need to be revisited and forgiven over and over again.
  

 

[Ronni_W]

On 11/3/2019 at 2:32 PM, JuneGirl said:

Sometimes I honestly want to forgive, but then when faced with those same behaviors.

[...]

Do you let other people know that you forgive them, or is it something that you do just in your own mind?

Can you forgive without reconciliation?

If you want to have a continuing, mutually beneficial, supportive and rewarding relationship with the person, then you both do need to go through a proper process that will end with genuine reconciliation.  But, if you're done with the person and your forgiveness/forgiving them is purely for your own self-healing and moving forward, then you don't need to tell them anything about any of your inner processes or your ultimate outcomes of your healing work.

If people keep apologizing but don't actually stop their negative attitude or behaviour(s) against you, then you need to wonder about the logic, reason and wisdom of keeping yourself in that situation and why you keep allowing them to hurt or mistreat you; willingly choosing to stay in a non-constructive, destructive or toxic relationship is not on the other person; you don't owe it to them to sacrifice yourself, no matter who they are or what the nature of the original relationship.

Wishing you the best.

[Corazon]

On 11/4/2019 at 6:08 AM, major_merrick said:

The way I understand it, forgiveness is consciously withholding your right to vengeance. And after you do that, you try to reduce the emotion surrounding what they did to you by giving the whole situation up to God. You ask God to do what He wants with it, and trust that He will judge or not as He sees fit. It is no longer your problem. You forgive for two reasons. First, God expects you to forgive because He has forgiven you. Second, you do it for your own mental health. Getting revenge and doing it right is hard work! It also chews a lot of people up inside. Third, forgiveness means you are still in control. You made the choice. Maybe you had some help from God getting there, but it was your choice. When you've been a victim, it gives you agency in your life again.

 

That said, forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation. Ideally, people would reconcile. God prefers it, if possible. But if the other party is unrepentant, dead, or somehow inaccessible, then reconciliation is not an option. And you aren't obligated to put yourself in harm's way again. God expects you to do the smart thing and take care of yourself, because you have rights too! If someone keeps hurting you, you can let them know you forgive them, but you can also let them know that you can't reconcile and have a friendship or relationship unless they make a change that you can trust. Trust doesn't get rebuilt overnight, it is earned based on evidence.

 

 

I've dealt with forgiveness a lot in recent weeks. My abusive mother just died. And my sister drugged and assaulted me. I'd have every right to press charges and seek vengeance, but I still love her and I'm trying to help her. Forgiveness takes work. It is emotional and heavy. And you don't just say "I forgive you" and it is done and over with. It ends up being a continuous thing. You choose daily to lay aside vengeance. I come from a culture of vengeance, family feuds, and dueling. Pistols at dawn, if you will. Forgiveness is not natural, but you can learn it.

Excellent understanding about forgiveness. You are so wise

[Libby1]

On 11/3/2019 at 7:32 PM, JuneGirl said:

Sometimes I honestly want to forgive, but then when faced with those same behaviors. But it seems like I've mastered the art of blocking it out (forgetting) but then when reminded of the bad stuff, I am back to being all hurt again...I posted in the spiritual and religious beliefs section, I welcome all point of views, religious, spiritual, logical, factual, etc and everything in between.

So, focusing on that bolded part and approaching it from a Christian perspective - I'm no scholar on these matters, but it's a pretty basic tenet of Christianity that if you pray to God and are asking for forgiveness for your own sins then you need to be clear that you've forgiven others for their sins against you.  I think this is where recognition of our own sins comes in.  Some people use religion as a kind of battering ram to impose their judgments and desire to control on others, but that would certainly not be in accordance with Christ's "let he who is without sin case the first stone" teachings.  I don't think the intention, in asking us to examine ourselves for our own sin, is to make us feel terrible about ourselves. 

It's simply to be honest with the wrongs we may have inflicted on others...and we all inflict wrongs on others at times, because doing otherwise is impossible.  Unless we're perfect like Christ (and who thinks that about themselves??).  Whether it's saying a cruel word because we're tired and irritable, or at the other extreme it might be that our own need to be needed made us too "nice" with the result that we over-helped somebody and didn't allow them an opportunity in which they could have developed their own strength and independence.   Some people who have been badly abused by others end up committing some pretty hard core sins themselves because they've been damaged by the abuse in ways that are hard to address effectively.  Some sins are intended, others aren't...but if you were approaching the issue of forgiveness from a Christian perspective then I think you would need to begin with recognising your own sins.

If it's in a context where a partner has wounded you deeply - say by cheating on you or being deliberately abusive to you - then that's particularly difficult.  Not least because people who cheat on or abuse you are very likely to take any opportunity they can to blame you for their behaviour.  A Christian who is focused on recognising their own sin has to take care that their faith is not abused by people like that.  The fact that we can recognise that none of us are without sin does not give people who maybe have no faith or who lean towards a psychopathic disposition the right to treat us poorly....but if they think they can get away with it, they might well try.

Recognising your own sins and flaws is connected to your ability to forgive a person who has wronged you, but ultimately it has more to do with your relationship with God (and your ability to confidently ask God for forgiveness when you need to) than it has to do with your dealings with that other person.  Unless reconciliation with them seems possible and not detrimental to your wellbeing...in which case your ability to self examine might well feature in your reconciliation discussions with them.  But again I'd stress that while I do believe true forgiveness of others is greatly helped by some self examination, you should always maintain awareness that there will be people out there who try to take advantage of a person of faith's willingness to critically self examine.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Libby1