What is this?

[CharlieDan1995]

Hi All,

 

So, to cut the initial part of this story short – myself and my ex had been together for over a year, it ended back in January this year (technically I was the dumper, but I still stand by the fact it was mutual) and that was that. I discovered she'd met someone else straight away, so I went 100% no contact (blocked/removed etc). But then out of the blue, 6/7 months later during summer this year, she contacted me.

 

She was full of remorse and regret, apologising for how she was prior to and during the breakup and how she’d changed certain things/elements etc. All was not rosy in the garden of her new partner either which I learnt quite quickly, to the point she ditched him soon after she saw that I was responding to her. Should I have entertained that initial message? In hindsight, probably not – but we have a lot of history together, friends for years before hand, so it was near on impossible for me to ignore the reach out.

 

So, the initial contact she initiated grew and chat was flowing back and forth like it used to, we arranged to meet up face to face quite soon after – but it was labelled as purely friends. A few months have passed since then, and I must admit I’m completely and utterly confused, and it feels like I’m on some sort of emotional rollercoaster which some days feels like it’s ruining me, and others feels like it’s a proper high.

 

My main issue is that I’m totally unsure of her intentions and trust me, I’ve asked. Which equates to me having no idea how to act around her a lot of the time. All I’m getting back is ‘no rushing’ ‘taking things day by day’ ‘no pressure’ – but through all of that, there’s no label of what we are. If her friends ask her if we are together again, she’ll make comments along the lines of ‘We’re seeing where it goes’’. Am I being strung along here? I’ll list out some of things which happen below.

 

- She’ll blow serious hot and cold. Some day’s she’s touchy feely and properly reciprocating touch/hand holding/kissing etc, other days it’s like she doesn’t want me to breath on her and she’ll position herself so I can’t hold her hand/touch her.

 

- There has been hardly any sexual flirting, absolutely no sexual interaction since we’ve been doing whatever this is (3 months)

 

- Recently I’ve been ‘allowed’ to share the bed with her if I stay at her flat, but again – absolutely nothing sexual ever happens and it feels like she builds a barricade to even stop me touching her. (Why let me in the bed then? My sexual frustration is at an all-time high)

 

- She’ll ‘pleasure’ herself whilst I’m there, not in the room – but in the bath/shower with the door open (I can hear)

 

- It always feels like it’s me having to initiate a touch, or a hand hold or a kiss – she’ll reciprocate it most of the time, but she never starts it.

 

- Some days she wants to see me, other weeks she doesn’t really want to see me and suggests I need some time away from her.

 

- It feels like I’m a secret – she doesn’t label me anything other than a friend to her work colleagues and seems to avoid any chance of me bumping into any of them with her.

 

- She’ll tell me she loves me and all that malarkey, but it doesn’t feel like it face to face.

 

- Some days she’ll criticise almost any element of me, what I do, how I act.

 

- She'll try and make me jealous by mentioning other guys or intimating that another guy was checking her out earlier etc.

 

She mentioned during the breakup in Jan that it was ‘always her’ initiating things (I didn't agree with that), she didn’t like that – so part of me is thinking that she’s testing me now, but then 3 months in and just me initiating is pretty emotionally exhausting, especially when it feels like I’m getting absolutely nothing in return.

 

She’s getting company, emotional support, the feeling of closeness without any label. I’m getting mixed feelings, mixed emotions, absolutely no feeling of intimacy and left in a total state of limbo.

 

What are your thoughts? Shall I just ditch and run for my own emotional sanity here? Or is she desperate for me to lead and take charge? (I just fear rejection mainly, as her signals are so incredibly mixed)

Edited November 4, 2019 by CharlieDan1995

[mark clemson]

Hmm. I don't know what it is. Perhaps she's keeping you around to help her feel "validated"? Perhaps she's simply got a low need for actual sex if she masturbates. At any rate, it sounds awful.

 

I DO know what you should do, which is walk away from it and start seeing someone else. Whatever this is, it's nothing for a young male to be wasting his time with. You should find someone who really likes you and is all over you, not this bizarre roomate-ish relationship.

 

- Recently I’ve been ‘allowed’ to share the bed with her if I stay at her flat, but again – absolutely nothing sexual ever happens and it feels like she builds a barricade to even stop me touching her. (Why let me in the bed then? My sexual frustration is at an all-time high)

 

Yeah, this sounds awful. Not to be mean but this sounds very "beta". The flip side of that is that, of course, you can't force yourself on her. But really, do you think she has any respect for you if she does this?

 

What are your thoughts? Shall I just ditch and run for my own emotional sanity here? Or is she desperate for me to lead and take charge? (I just fear rejection mainly, as her signals are so incredibly mixed)

 

You can attempt to "take charge" and see what happens. If it were me, I'd just leave and find someone else.

[MsJayne]

No idea what it is, but you need to get away from it because you're being manipulated and used to fill a void in her life.

[Mr. Lucky]

Or is she desperate for me to lead and take charge?

 

Why are you asking about her when the real question is this - why would you put up with this? Mind games? No-contact sleepovers? Sneaking around?

 

And for three months?

 

Man up and move on...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Inspire]

Welcome Charlie. I think you absolutely need to have the talk with her. I'd understand if you two had just started to reconnect but its now been several months.

 

She either wants to reconcile and begin dating again or she doesn't but it can't be something in between. Its time to fish or cut bait.

 

Underlying all of this is working on the reasons you two broke up to begin with. Any couple that reconciles without addressing those issues is bound for failure.

 

I'd have the talk, but if she is still not definitive then you ultimately need to make a decision for yourself. This is not looking good though.

[CharlieDan1995]

Hmm. I don't know what it is. Perhaps she's keeping you around to help her feel "validated"? Perhaps she's simply got a low need for actual sex if she masturbates. At any rate, it sounds awful.

 

I DO know what you should do, which is walk away from it and start seeing someone else. Whatever this is, it's nothing for a young male to be wasting his time with. You should find someone who really likes you and is all over you, not this bizarre roomate-ish relationship.

 

 

 

Yeah, this sounds awful. Not to be mean but this sounds very "beta". The flip side of that is that, of course, you can't force yourself on her. But really, do you think she has any respect for you if she does this?

 

 

 

You can attempt to "take charge" and see what happens. If it were me, I'd just leave and find someone else.

 

Yeah, it is a pretty awful dynamic to be in for me tbh - the description of this being very betaish is probably a good one.

 

I don't want to 'force' myself onto someone sexually. I think we all need encouragement, maybe yes guys take the lead...but from a tiny bit of encouragement first, or at least an idea where they stand - otherwise it just feels wrong. (maybe I’m not like most guys, I’m not the most experienced so maybe I’m being stupid).

 

I think the biggest alarm to me is that this is the opposite of who she was when we first started dating back last year. She was all over me, always touching me, always cuddling me, always initiating, always wanting ‘sex’- she’s always been a very sexual/sexting type, which has been non-existent the last few months. So, I kind of always knew where I stood and that I felt wanted.... but now I have absolutely no idea.

 

Another element I didn't say and I’m 99% sure this is having an impact in how she feels is that she had a bad time in the 5 months we weren't seeing each other. She lost her best friend and her brother, who both died.... she hooked up with someone else at that same time and that didn’t go well either. (that hook up was for the wrong reasons). So obviously I feel I need to respect what she’s been through, but then I don’t want to forget myself and what I’m feeling either.

 

Whenever I broach the subject of what we are, she speaks to me about how she is unsure, she wants to make sure I won't 'dump' her again and she wants to make sure she doesn’t change her mind either. I’ve been told she never lost her feelings for me, but she was hurt by how it ended and doesn’t want to rush anything - but what is a reasonable time frame for this non-relationship limbo?

 

She’s kept all our memories; we went through them the other week (she kept pin board of the places we visited etc). So, part of me believes the genuine feeling is still there when we talk about things like that, but then other times I just feel she isn’t into this at all and wants me to fill a void and keep her company (Always messaging me, like the most frequent person on her phone. She phones me all the time, from the bath, from the car – if we’re not together. She is doing a lot of push/pull in terms of wanting to see me a lot). But when we are together, she’s not really making me feel wanted physically.

 

So, I either give up on this and walk away – or I wait and have patience, give her time and allow her to grieve as she needs…and then see what happens. But as selfish as it sounds, this isn’t fair on me either. I know it’s not all about ‘sex’, but I guess I just don’t feel wanted physically and without that clarification it’s just a bit of a non-entity in my mind.

[CharlieDan1995]

Welcome Charlie. I think you absolutely need to have the talk with her. I'd understand if you two had just started to reconnect but its now been several months.

 

She either wants to reconcile and begin dating again or she doesn't but it can't be something in between. Its time to fish or cut bait.

 

Underlying all of this is working on the reasons you two broke up to begin with. Any couple that reconciles without addressing those issues is bound for failure.

 

I'd have the talk, but if she is still not definitive then you ultimately need to make a decision for yourself. This is not looking good though.

 

 

We split up because we were completley at odds with our life plans, it wasn't a bad breakup in the slighest. She was moving state, I wasn't. etc etc.

 

 

Obviously in the end she didn't move state and her life plans changed, which is why she reached out to me to apologise that she should have considered my views more.

 

 

How on earth do I bring this up this limbo-land relationship though? Not sure how else to bring it up. Do I ultimatum it?

[CharlieDan1995]

No idea what it is, but you need to get away from it because you're being manipulated and used to fill a void in her life.

 

 

Yeah, the filling a void is a genuine concern.

 

But, why offer me the bed? When I was staying over occasionally, I just used the pull-down sofa, which was fine. Only recently has she said ''I think I’m ready to share my bed again now''.

 

So, if I was filling a void, she'd surely just keep me at arm’s length in all aspects and on the sofa...there was no need for her to offer me her bed if she was just using me, surely?

[ExpatInItaly]

My guess is that she is seeing someone else too, isn't sure where that is going, and keeps you around to keep her company in the meantime.

 

And even if she isn't currently seeing someone, you are still the filler until she meets another guy. She likes being desired and likes having a warm body around.

 

You need to walk away from this. It's gone on long enough and it's not likely to end the way you're hoping.

[Inspire]

It sounds like is afraid of getting hurt again but she needs to realize that this limbo you're in is not healthy. It leaves you in a position of not knowing how to act or how to feel.

 

Sex for her with you only serves to make her feel even more connected to you. So if she is afraid of getting hurt, that could be a good reason why she hasn't been physical with you. I was in a very similar situation to this.

 

You're right though. None of this is fair for you either. I think you need to talk to her, see what she says and then make a decision.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Inspire

[CharlieDan1995]

It sounds like is afraid of getting hurt again but she needs to realize that this limbo you're in is not healthy. It leaves you in a position of not knowing how to act or how to feel.

 

Sex for her with you only serves to make her feel even more connected to you. So if she is afraid of getting hurt, that could be a good reason why she hasn't been physical with you. I was in a very similar situation to this.

 

You're right though. None of this is fair for you either. I think you need to talk to her, see what she says and then make a decision.

 

 

So, I guess my question is how do I remove that fear? I guess I just need to come out and be straight and tell her that I don't like this limbo situation.

 

 

I guess my fear on the back of that is that this loses her totally and she just withdraws 100%.

[Inspire]

 

I guess my fear on the back of that is that this loses her totally and she just withdraws 100%.

 

That is a possibility, but you also need to look out for yourself in all of this. Be direct, but be polite. Don't make it an ultimatum. Everything thus far has been on her terms, and she is the one that reached out to you. You need to have a voice too. If you plan to be a couple you both need to be equally involved.

[Inspire]

My ex dragged it out for months. She was guarded and holding back. Like you, I was patient and understanding because of how I felt about her but everything was on her terms and eventually I needed to do what was right for me. Patience and understanding can only stretch so far. Being too patient only serves to allow people to take advantage of you.

[CharlieDan1995]

My ex dragged it out for months. She was guarded and holding back. Like you, I was patient and understanding because of how I felt about her but everything was on her terms and eventually I needed to do what was right for me. Patience and understanding can only stretch so far. Being too patient only serves to allow people to take advantage of you.

 

 

It sounds like you were in a very, very, very familiar situation to me.

 

I'm guessing from the tone of your post, nothing ever happened even though you waited and you just broke contact completely?

 

I've also been told on numerous occasions that I'm 'missed' when I'm not around, but she doesn't know why she misses me. That's another head **** and a bit of a heart ripper.

 

 

I think I deserve better than this. I'm not even sleeping at night anymore. And I'd got myself into such a good place after the breakup, and then boom.

[Inspire]

No, nothing ever came of it.

 

Yea, that is a heart ripper (not knowing why you're missed). Feeling that way is one thing, openly admitting that to your partner is something else entirely. Her statement doesn't exemplify her readiness to get back together. That speaks to her uncertainty and is exactly why she is guarded. She is in turmoil with her emotions and the result is this limbo you're in. Sex would only complicate matters.

 

Mine had similar encouraging words like "it's hard to pretend like were together when we're not," or "I don't owe you anything, and you don't owe me anything. There were a few others, but those were the standouts.

 

Feel free to PM me as well.

[CharlieDan1995]

No, nothing ever came of it.

 

Yea, that is a heart ripper (not knowing why you're missed). Feeling that way is one thing, openly admitting that to your partner is something else entirely. Her statement doesn't exemplify her readiness to get back together. That speaks to her uncertainty and is exactly why she is guarded. She is in turmoil with her emotions and the result is this limbo you're in. Sex would only complicate matters.

 

Mine had similar encouraging words like "it's hard to pretend like were together when we're not," or "I don't owe you anything, and you don't owe me anything. There were a few others, but those were the standouts.

 

Feel free to PM me as well.

 

 

Doesn't seem to let me PM you, might be because I don't have a high enough post count?

 

 

If you can PM me, let me know your email and I'll talk to you over that - sounds like our stories tally up 100%. Would be very good to chat it out with you!

[mark clemson]

...what is a reasonable time frame for this non-relationship limbo?

 

The answer to that actually depends on you. Perhaps, understandably, she's not ready to "have fun" yet due to her losses. However, YOU are the one impacted and so have the option to decide what's "reasonable". You're being hurt and affected by it, so the time has passed.

 

You can be supportive as a platonic friend while moving on if you feel that's what's right. However, be aware that a) as much as you may want to, it's not your job to stand in as her therapist if that's really what she needs (nor are you particularly qualified) and b) any new GF is likely to be bothered by too much closeness to an ex, so you'd need to "keep her at arm's length" relative to how it is right now.

 

IMO you're probably best served by moving on. If you're going to try to talk through this first then IMO now's the time.

[CharlieDan1995]

The answer to that actually depends on you. Perhaps, understandably, she's not ready to "have fun" yet due to her losses. However, YOU are the one impacted and so have the option to decide what's "reasonable". You're being hurt and affected by it, so the time has passed.

 

You can be supportive as a platonic friend while moving on if you feel that's what's right. However, be aware that a) as much as you may want to, it's not your job to stand in as her therapist if that's really what she needs (nor are you particularly qualified) and b) any new GF is likely to be bothered by too much closeness to an ex, so you'd need to "keep her at arm's length" relative to how it is right now.

 

IMO you're probably best served by moving on. If you're going to try to talk through this first then IMO now's the time.

 

 

I don't want it to sound like I just want to 'have fun’ re: sex - I just want an emotional connection again, none of this half arsed half-relationship bull**** which this is.

 

So, yeah, I'm going to talk it out. I think I need to make my feelings clear again, but this time I'm going to try and say in the best way I can in that I'm all in....I can't live in this weird limbo land of not knowing how to act around someone I want to be with.

 

Either come back on board 100% or I'll have to back away and progress my life.

[Inspire]

You might need 10 posts to be able to PM, but double check in your settings that you have PM's enabled. If its enabled then you might just need a few more posts because it says I couldn't PM you but I have gotten PM's before so I am good on my end.

 

Yea, definitely get your thoughts in order and be prepared to handle the most obvious answers she'll have. Try not to overly focus on one specific instance but rather the bigger picture stuff. All too often you can get into dancing around in circles getting bogged down in the details that often takes away from the big picture.

[CharlieDan1995]

You might need 10 posts to be able to PM, but double check in your settings that you have PM's enabled. If its enabled then you might just need a few more posts because it says I couldn't PM you but I have gotten PM's before so I am good on my end.

 

Yea, definitely get your thoughts in order and be prepared to handle the most obvious answers she'll have. Try not to overly focus on one specific instance but rather the bigger picture stuff. All too often you can get into dancing around in circles getting bogged down in the details that often takes away from the big picture.

 

 

I'm going to try and take my time, but funnily enough tonight seems like a good night to broach this....but I don't think I've got the right words to do it yet.

[Inspire]

What is she like? Is she normally direct,indirect, blunt etc?

[CharlieDan1995]

What is she like? Is she normally direct,indirect, blunt etc?

 

 

She's a pretty confident person. I wouldn't say she's blunt or direct to be honest, she can be pretty indirect with how she feels.

 

 

 

I mean, she hardly ever broaches the subject of 'what we are' face to face - it will only ever be via message, it's like when we're face to face that topic is never considered and things just go with the flow (We cuddle, hug, snuggle on the sofa, kiss etc).

[Inspire]

Did you make a move to have sex and if so how did she respond? How long ago was that?

 

I hate talking about those kinds of things by text. Too much can be misinterpreted. At least you two are seemingly spending time together. How often do you two get together and do you two go out, etc?

[CharlieDan1995]

Did you make a move to have sex and if so how did she respond? How long ago was that?

 

I hate talking about those kinds of things by text. Too much can be misinterpreted. At least you two are seemingly spending time together. How often do you two get together and do you two go out, etc?

 

So, I haven't made a move in that sense since the bed sharing started. (Maybe that's what she's waiting for). The most that has happened is one-way foreplay about a month ago, which then left me in a state of what the **** because she left me in limbo there. Nothing back my way there, which didn't make me feel too good.

 

Then there was the situation of the vibrator usage on a weekend morning whilst I was downstairs, and yes, I could hear everything. Sometimes I wonder if I was a dumb arse there and she was playing it out in her head that I’d find her or something weird like that, but given how limbo this all feels it doesn’t feel like I can act or approach in that sense.

 

In terms of how often we see each other? Pretty much 60% of the week. Maybe leading to me staying over twice a week, we either meet up at eachothers homes, go out for some walks or at the weekends go for some night-time restaurant meals etc.

 

 

If we're not seeing each other, she's phoning me 3 or 4 times a day. From the bath, from the car, from the shops, from her work. Part of me wonders if it's because she's lonely, but surely, she has other people to phone and her friends are nearby anyway.

 

 

I try not to overdo it, but she will always ask - she is the one initiating seeing me most of the time now days, as I've backed off a little recently due to me getting very little in return out of all this. It's hard for me to say no…. because I want it, but then I'm not getting what I want from it in the sense that I'm still in limbo. So, she’s got me by a string and I’m a puppet to her tune.

Edited November 4, 2019 by CharlieDan1995

[Inspire]

Make a move and see what happens. I'd do that before I had the talk with her. Was she one to initiate sex before? I know some women that never do.