Are close friends of the gender you are attracted to okay when you're married?

[Faithful1975]

Again, appreciate all the responses and I think at the end of the day I just need to do my best to gradually back off on my friendship.

 

After speaking with my wife it's pretty clear that almost every interaction with my friend makes her uncomfortable, although, she seems to be okay with a phone call and text once in awhile.

 

I think my issue is that there seems to be this underlying belief that all male/female platonic friendships will result in some kind of affair if one party is single and that if you have this type of friend you are not getting something from your spouse/partner.

 

For example, my wife has friends (females) who she grabs coffee, or lunch with, about once a month and I don't ever feel this represents her not getting something from me. In fact, if she didn't have friends outside of our marriage I would be worried.

 

There are probably things my wife talks about with these friends she could discuss with me but on occasion I am sure she talks about subjects I don't care about. My point here is that I think friends expand our lives and can also give our partners/spouses a "break" once in a while.

 

Again, I get the fact that my friend is a woman, and that she is going through a divorce/separation, makes a difference but this idea that there is some nefarious intention on her part to steal me away from my wife, and that I can't control myself, is what is kind of tough to swallow. But none the less my wife is my "number one" so I will do what's necessary to make her feel comfortable.

[mark clemson]

A wise maneuver to be sure...

[fromheart]

Have you ever heard the term emotional affair?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I don't bother with such nonsense personally, perhaps you could tell the OP about it.

[central]

It's best to establish these kinds of boundaries before you get married, but it's not always possible. My take is that existing friendships are sacred, and if a potential spouse has issues with that, then they won't become my spouse because our values would be incompatible. To a degree that would also be true after marriage, depending on the situation and level of unjustified jealousy. If there were no kids to consider, I'd seriously consider ending such a constricting relationship - again, out of incompatible values. If there were kids and I felt I had to lose a friend because of irrational fears, I'd definitely resent it.

[healing light]

Well, if she's really just your friend, then there is NO reason why you wouldn't want your good friend to get to know your wife and also be friends with her. So this would make anyone suspicious. You either incorporate your wife into the friendship at least occasionally so she can get a read on this woman and decide for herself if she's a threat or not, or you choose.

 

 

Incorporate the wife into the friendship so you can still see her in public places (the three of you) and your wife can see there's no threat. "Hiding" her from the wife by not inviting her to join along will just raise your wife's shackles. If you bring the wife along, you're not violating the one-on-one rule. Otherwise I think you're both going to build resentment.

[elaine567]

Even bringing the wife along will not be good enough for her.

Plenty affairs go on right under the spouse's nose, the good "friend", the "coworker", the "acquaintance", all perfectly innocent, only they aren't.

That is the issue here.

 

I guess the wife will not want to meet this woman socially, she doesn't want her marriage "polluted " by her.

Marriages and relationships can end in a domino type effect when couples start separating/divorcing.

It is like a virus once one is affected the rest get infected and start falling over one by one.

I guess, the wife here does not want to be a part of this woman's failing marriage, nor does she want her husband potentially being "corrupted"...

[preraph]

You can tell, though, by how they act around each other and tell if they're holding back and putting on a show.

[Faithful1975]

I haven't posted for a while on this but I wanted to come back and give an update and I also have to say some of the responses are a bit "interesting".

 

First, I have backed off quite a bit on my friendship to make my wife happy. It has been a bit awkward with my friend but it is certainly causing less drama on the home front.

 

Secondly, to address some of the responses. Look, I get it, people have affairs and marriages get ended as a result of friendships growing into something else but at the end of the day if a marriage was meant to go that way it's going to happen one way or the other. In fact, I tend to think that if you can't trust your spouse, even with a friend they have had for 20 plus years, that alone is probably a sign of a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

Also, this idea that I need to "include" my wife in activity with my friend seems a little silly in the sense that it would really only about bringing my wife along to placate her and let her supervise to make sure we are "behaving" ourselves.

 

As I have said before I don't expect my wife to "include" me in her activity with her female friends and I know my wife has no interest in hanging with me and my male friends. And honestly, I am not sure how having coffee with my friend, over lunch, at an oh so "romantic" Starbucks or, "gasp", Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf once a month, or less, requires supervision. No, that wouldn't be awkward at all;)

 

I would understand the concern if my friend and i were hanging out every week and we were doing things that should only be reserved for a spouse/significant other but that has never been the case here.

 

Anyway, for now, I am keeping things really low key, and distant, but I have no plans to "ghost", or give up, my friend.

[preraph]

So sounds like you've talked to her, so talk to her again and be totally honest, and be honest with yourself about which of these "just friends" you have or would like to bang someday. The let your girlfriend/spouse whatever she is set the boundaries.

 

My biggest advice is don't communicate or take communication from any that have a crush on you. That's cheating.

 

And if you keep them, you have to share them and incorporated them into your life with your wife, meaning, she gets to be with you at least most of the time you're with any of them.

 

And third, remember whatever you do, she gets to do with her male friends.

[elaine567]

..my wife essentially asked me to not hang out with her alone anymore

 

Anyway, for now, I am keeping things really low key, and distant, but I have no plans to "ghost", or give up, my friend.

 

I see big trouble ahead....

[vla1120]

Secondly, to address some of the responses. Look, I get it, people have affairs and marriages get ended as a result of friendships growing into something else but at the end of the day if a marriage was meant to go that way it's going to happen one way or the other. In fact, I tend to think that if you can't trust your spouse, even with a friend they have had for 20 plus years, that alone is probably a sign of a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

Also, this idea that I need to "include" my wife in activity with my friend seems a little silly in the sense that it would really only about bringing my wife along to placate her and let her supervise to make sure we are "behaving" ourselves.

 

As I have said before I don't expect my wife to "include" me in her activity with her female friends and I know my wife has no interest in hanging with me and my male friends. And honestly, I am not sure how having coffee with my friend, over lunch, at an oh so "romantic" Starbucks or, "gasp", Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf once a month, or less, requires supervision. No, that wouldn't be awkward at all;)

 

Of course, no one goes into a marriage with the intent of seeing it break up over an EA (or PA) years down the line. Of course, everyone should be able to trust their spouse - even with friends of the opposite sex, right up until that moment they cannot.

 

Your wife would have no interest in being included in your activities with your guy friends, just like you have no interest participating with her female friends' get togethers. What if your wife had a male friend? Would you be just as accepting of her having lunch, coffee, going to the movies, etc., with a "best" friend of the opposite sex? Try to put yourself in your wife's shoes.

 

You might think you nor your friend would ever cross the line. You don't know that for sure. Everything is innocent and on the up-and-up until that boundary is crossed.

 

Let me ask you this - why is she separated? Are you certain her husband did not have a problem with your friendship?

[preraph]

Incorporating them by letting your wife know them is the best way to keep them going longterm. It accomplishes many things. First, your wife can judge for herself whether either you or this woman have a thing for each other.

 

Second, if she's a friend worth having, seems like you'd want your wife, the closest person to you, to get to know her and also come to like her.

 

The fact you want to keep her closeted makes me very suspicious what this friendship is about. If I were your wife, I would ask her over to dinner and see for myself what the whole attitude is between you and also to be sure she knows you're already attached and understand that.

[Faithful1975]

Thanks for the responses and I do get where everyone is coming from but to answer a couple of questions.

 

First, my friend's marriage ended because of her husband and had absolutely nothing to do with me. In fact, I had no idea her marriage was imploding until it was pretty much done and I was shocked when she told me.

 

Secondly, my wife has met my friend several times over the years. In fact we had dinner with my friend, and her husband, several times when our kids were really little. We were never friends as couples but my wife knows my friend.

 

Third, my friend has never given me one iota of indication that she is interested in more than friendship ever. She has never flirted with me physically, or verbally. When we hang out she always asks how my wife is and how things are going. She has said several times she would never want me to experience what she is going through. And really, at the end of the day, my friend and I probably text a few times per week and maybe talk once per week but we have weeks where we don't talk at all.

 

But again, I do get what I need to do and I am being respectful of my wife's wishes. I guess, as much as I think it's silly. maybe I should invite my friend to do something with my wife and I. I don't think she would say yes, and I am sure she would think its kind of weird, but I suppose I could do that if the occasion arises.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't think she would say yes, and I am sure she would think its kind of weird, but I suppose I could do that if the occasion arises.

 

I'm confused by this. If she really does respect the boundaries of your marriage, what would be "weird" about the 3 of you doing something together?

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

She has said several times she would never want me to experience what she is going through.

 

Yeah. I remember when my 5-yr-old told me she saw my husband kissing my best friend (and neighbor), my husband and best friend denied, denied, denied. I specifically remember my best friend telling me "My first husband cheated on me. I know how that felt. I would NEVER want you to go through that." Part of her "12 step program" later on was to come and apologize to me for cheating with my husband.

 

So...yeah...with my experience, I'll take your friend's proclamation with a grain of salt.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Faithful, you have been given a lot of advice from both ladies and gentlemen on this forum. That being so you have a wide variety of views to help you make up your mind about what you should or should not do. From reading your responses I get the impression that while you acknowledge the validity of what most people are saying, you have a bit of a dog with a bone attitude about how you view this matter almost to the point that there is an element of resentment in how you react to your wife's requests about cutting down on your interaction with this lady friend of yours.

 

The fact is that in all the years when this lady friend had a stable marriage, your wife had no problem in your interactions with her. It is only now when she is separated from her husband and is possibly in the process of divorcing her husband that your wife's antennae have gone on alert and she has requested you to cut your interactions with your friend. As a woman I think her intuition is much more tuned into the hazard of your maintaining a friendly relationship with your lady friend than you could ever possibly have. As someone else has suggested, if the roles were reversed and your wife was the one maintaining a friendly relationship with an old male friend when he was separated from his wife and in the process of going through a divorce, then maybe, you too, would be feeling very uncomfortable at this point. The fact is that we are all human. Human behaviour can and does change when under stress and someone in an emotionally devastating situation like divorce is likely to clutch at straws to alleviate the pain that they are undergoing. In such circumstances your Lady friend is likely to reach out emotionally to you for support and if she is not already in a new relationship, will likely draw you in for some intimate comfort. One can never rule out such a scenario.

 

The one thing you need to ponder on is how important your relationship with your wife is. Does it trump everything else or are there circumstances where it takes second place to a relationship with someone else. If this be the case then you need to be completely honest with your wife and tell her where she gets off the bus.

Best wishes.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Just a Guy

[Faithful1975]

Upon reflection, and more recent experiences with my friend, I do think there is a bit of an unhealthy dynamic which is probably setting off my wife's radar and I need to break so suggestions would be appreciated.

 

I will emphasize that I don't believe my friend is interested in anything romantic with me but I do think she is "using" me a bit as emotional support and as an ego boost when she needs one. I almost feel like she is treating me a bit like a guy who is trying to date her or like somewhat of a remote "back-up" plan for her even if she doesn't realize it on her end and here's why.

 

One of the things I have tried to do lately is really back off on initiating any communication with her. Now with most friends, especially when one has kids, a job and other stuff going on, it should be totally cool not having any communication with someone for a week or two but that has never happened with her.

 

Inevitably, after usually a few days, I will get some little text from her, that is completely unnecessary, which will require some sort of response. If I don't respond I will get a follow-up phone call and/or text within 24 hours which is usually some passive/aggressive jab at me for not responding. It will be nice, and even kind of cute, but it' clear she wanted a response.

 

If, on the other hand, I do respond, and treat her like a normal friend, we will get into some text back and forth where she will always leave me hanging. She will just go completely "dark" and not respond to whatever I said. I have even called her to make sure she is okay and I get nothing. And then, after I get over my irritation, and feel like I'm in the clear, another text from her will come and the whole "dance" will start again. It's really a bit odd.

 

I have honestly thought about just completely cutting off all communication with her, and not responding to anything, including social media, but I don't want to come across like an ass either so any suggestions will be appreciated. I also am curious for thoughts on her bizarre behavior.

[mark clemson]

There is an expression "push-pull" which is used to describe the dynamics of affairs (where the APs want each other "close but not TOO close"). This sounds a bit like that, so perhaps it's a bit of an EA from her perspective.

 

Your sense that she wants validation or some sliver of hope that you're a soft landing for her (even if she knows it's self-delusion at some level) sounds like it could be accurate.

 

You might consider mentioning, if you haven't already, your wife's discomfort and consider using that as a reason to go dark on her for longer periods (which still constitutes normal friendship for many adults).

 

She probably doesn't want to face her current sit without you as a bit of an emotional crutch, but it might (or might not) be what's actually best: in the end, she can't have you (and once a single woman might not actually want you) so she needs to come to grips with it.

[Mr. Lucky]

I also am curious for thoughts on her bizarre behavior.

 

Honestly, why does it matter? This is a time to be selfish, there's an unhealthy dynamic here that doesn't benefit you or your marriage. I don't think her intentions or thoughts are really relevant, your focus should be on addressing your wife's discomfort with the 'friendship'.

 

When it comes to "who, what, where, when, why", there's a reason "why" is last. Act accordingly...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Faithful1975]

I think "Push-Pull" sounds completely accurate for describing our current relationship. I honestly think if she viewed me purely as a friend she would just be pretty straight up in the way she communicates with me.

 

It's kind of odd but I think if she did not have these type of feelings she would probably just communicate with me more directly and consistently. In a normal friendship there isn't really any heavy analysis that goes into communication. If you want to text, or call, your friend you call them. If they text, or call, you you respond to the when you can.

 

Someone pointed out to me that they think what's going on is that she has some feelings for me so she decides to back off which is why her communication habits seem a little weird.

 

And I also agree that her intentions, at the end of the day, don't matter because my wife is defininitely numer one.

[preraph]

Yeah. I remember when my 5-yr-old told me she saw my husband kissing my best friend (and neighbor), my husband and best friend denied, denied, denied. I specifically remember my best friend telling me "My first husband cheated on me. I know how that felt. I would NEVER want you to go through that." Part of her "12 step program" later on was to come and apologize to me for cheating with my husband.

 

So...yeah...with my experience, I'll take your friend's proclamation with a grain of salt.

 

Sorry you went through THAT. Ugh. Leaves you with no trust for anybody. Bunch of hyenas.

[preraph]

Faithful1975, I'm glad you've found a reasonable stance on this. I'm a woman, and I have to tell you that a lot of women have very acute intuition about this type thing. Others, of course, are just jealous of everything, but if your wife is usually on an even keel, do take her intuition and fears seriously when her alarm sounds. It's basic instinct for women.

[carhill]

 

I will emphasize that I don't believe my friend is interested in anything romantic with me but I do think she is "using" me a bit as emotional support and as an ego boost when she needs one.

Normal female behavior. You can choose to enable it or not. A male friend she has no romantic or sexual interest in can become a surrogate husband in the best friend sense when the marriage is in trouble or blowing up. Seen this many times and I'v been the friend a few, even recently. .......

 

Inevitably, after usually a few days, I will get some little text from her, that is completely unnecessary, which will require some sort of response. If I don't respond I will get a follow-up phone call and/or text within 24 hours which is usually some passive/aggressive jab at me for not responding.

Again, perfectly normal. In her state of mind, in the middle of an apparent separation and/or marital discord, you're the guy she's been a friend to for 20 years and you will respond on her terms. It's all about her. Not an indictment, rather reality.

 

If, on the other hand, I do respond, and treat her like a normal friend, we will get into some text back and forth where she will always leave me hanging........

Yup, I've even had them 'hang up' on the phone. Not even say goodbye. I call it temporary insanity.

 

I have honestly thought about just completely cutting off all communication with her, and not responding to anything, including social media, but I don't want to come across like an ass either so any suggestions will be appreciated. I also am curious for thoughts on her bizarre behavior.

IMO, having seen/been on many sides of this stuff over the decades, I'd move away from any focus on this stuff and back onto focus on your marriage, presuming you love your wife and desire a healthy and long-lived relationship with her. IMO, if you and your friend had wanted to bang each other, it would have happened long ago, affair or not. That's not the issue though, the issue is the health of your marriage. You're very fortunate to be able to have long-lived friendships. That says a lot about your interpersonal relationship skills. You will have other friendships and likely do. You have one wife.

 

More generally, addressing the title, IME women often believe they can have male friends when married since they are the gatekeepers of sex and fidelity for themselves and can control or terminate any man's access to them. They believe they are in control but men cannot control themselves. You see some signs of this in your wife in that she finds this friend to be a problem now that she's separated. Why? Can't you control yourself? You have for the entirety of your marriage and the many women you've had as friends and the thousands met in real life, right? What's the big deal?

 

Are there exceptions? Sure! Just pointing out one more hypocrisy of many I see in the real world. The reason it exists is simple. You don't like it, see ya, there's always another man lining up to bang her and she knows it. That's power. Some wield it with finesse and others like a blunt instrument. Your wife? IDK. How many male friends does she have? Do you control her access to males? Approve them? How does that go for you?

[basil67]

I will emphasize that I don't believe my friend is interested in anything romantic with me but I do think she is "using" me a bit as emotional support

 

Female friends 'workshop' their issues with each other all the time. It's the basis of how women interact. We don't see supporting each other as 'using' we see it as friendship.

 

That said, I do agree that this isn't an ideal dynamic for you to be in. She should be seeking out other women for support.

[carhill]

OP, question.... are you a 'rock' or do you ever express doubt, vulnerability, share problems, etc? If the latter, I presume your wife is a wonderful partner to be intimate with in that way but when she isn't around, how does this old friend react if/when you go a little bit off the reservation? This is key. Is she a good listener, willing to talk things through without injecting herself into the interaction, etc, etc? What keyed me in is how she's been 'workshopping' with you but then dismissing you often without a polite thank you or in some cases just bla, bla then cutting you off cold like you're a machine. If she's historically been a loving and supportive friend I'd likely write it off to temporary separation insanity but still friends should be more polite and appreciative than bang bang, silence. Don't enable that. What will likely happen if you call her out on it is she'll erase you. Seen that a lot. That means you were never really a friend, just a convenient hole. Kinda crude but it is what it is.

 

Lastly, a hypothetical.... your wife is close friends with a really attractive guy, she even tells you that. She's married to you so I presume she's attracted to men. She tells you he's gay. Does that matter to you? Do you presume he's 'safe' because she tells you he's gay? She has really intimate and emotional conversations with him because, well, the stereotypical gay guy can be like that. Problem? She might even discuss your marriage with him like I'll bet she does 'workshopping' with her girlfriends. Problem? She might even discuss this old female friend of yours and your interactions with her. Cool? Just some food for thought. One painful lesson I learned over many decades is to be very watchful of women manipulating you. They're experts at it. I see it every day. For some it's like breathing for others only when there's a specific and important goal in mind. Examine the totality and make a decision in your best health. No one will care more about you than you. Never diminish that.