How do i manage a bad bunch of employees

[missingu]

Hi, it's been a while..I am once again having issues with a bad bunch of employees. I have been managing them for nearly 2 years. There's one female employee in particular who is extremely toxic and is a bully.

 

I constantly have new employees come up to me and tell me she is bullying them. She singles them out and badmouths them to others.

 

I know she's been saying nasty things about me again too. She tells,everyone that everything bad that's happening must be due to me and me and my management and telling my boss what to do which isn't always,the case. I say my piece as they do theirs and then we make a decision as a group.

 

Another girl that started not long ago and I never had a bad word with until today has a toxic attitude too (FRIENDS with toxic employee above) first to admit I was wrong today as I yelled at her after she randomly said how no staff like me (had nothing to do with the argument) and made it personal .I told her that no one has a gun to her head and if she doesnt like the job then leave. She walked up to me trying to intimidate me so we got in eachother face because I didn't back down.

 

I saw my managers and told them I know I was wrong and they said it's all good but I need to learn to remain calm or I give the employee the power.

 

 

Anyway how do I manage this. I'm nearly ready to give up and find another job. I am tired of working with a manager who won't do anything about these problem employees and might just need to start documenting everything to get rid of them.

 

If I document everything as a middle manager can I get rid of these people? I'm tired of the drama i just want to go to work do my job make money and go home to the people who do love me.

 

Anyone had this issue and what did you do?

[d0nnivain]

Do you have written manuals in your company? If not create some & make everybody sign the rules.

 

Meanwhile call a meeting with the toxic bully & ask her for her insights on what how could be improved. Then point out to her that she need to be the instrument of change -- to boost moral. With permission from your higher ups make her in charge of boosting moral -- ordering in bagels on Fridays or having monthly birthday cake for everyone celebrating that month. You need everybody on board to show appreciation.

[clia]

It doesn't sound like you are managing them at all. It sounds like you are treating them more like your peers rather than subordinates. If you give someone an inch, they will take a mile, and it seems like they don't have much respect for you as a manager.

 

Iif they are acting inappropriately or insubordinately toward you or any of the other employees, it is on you to manage that and make every attempt to put a stop to it. Is there an HR manual that lays out how people are to behave? Have you had a discussion with them about their behavior? Have you written them up or given them warnings? You need a solid paper trail and discussion with them about the possible outcomes if they continue to behave that way.

 

I am tired of working with a manager who won't do anything about these problem employees and might just need to start documenting everything to get rid of them.

 

Yes, you should be documenting all of these incidents. Why haven't you been doing that? You need a clear statement of how they are expected to behave and warnings and write ups when they do not behave that way if you want to "get rid" of them. You can't really expect your manager to do anything about it if you aren't providing the back up for him/her to do it.

 

If I document everything as a middle manager can I get rid of these people? I'm tired of the drama i just want to go to work do my job make money and go home to the people who do love me.

 

Sit down with your manager and have a discussion about how you should proceed and what your manager would like to see from you to deal with these problem employees. Try to do it in a way that doesn't make it apparent that you have completely lost control of your subordinates.

[Mr. Lucky]

There aren't "bunches" of bad employees, only poor or ineffective bosses and managers.

 

Because good managers lead, user the tools at their disposal and allow employees to "fill their buckets" first.

 

You should be following the steps your company provides to use progressive discipline with any toxic employee, not that hard to weed them out. There are a ton of management and leadership resources out there, from "One Minute Manager" to "Good to Great". Improve your Leadership IQ, results will follow...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Rockdad]

You best be documenting all work infractions. If your middle management you may not have the authority to fire someone. Depends on the how your company is structured. Write and issue disciplinary warnings. Verbal warnings are also documented, the employee is issued either one of these letters and copy goes into there file.

 

 

 

Make sure the employee is justly fired when appropriate and be armed with a well kept employee file. If there is a legal complaint or unemployment filed against the company you have documentation of bad conduct or work performance.

[LuckyLady13]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. From the wrong angle.

 

Don't concern yourself with giving the employees power because that's not where your problem is at all. I knew exactly what to say to you (and the answer was easy) until you said you have to report to upper management. You don't have enough power but not because of the employees.

 

1 - You need to have the power to send these people home without pay if they get that out of hand and aren't doing their job.

 

2 - The other thing you need to do to gain power in your situation is lead by example. You need to be the strong force in your life that will waltz in the door, have confidence that you have good intentions and control over the situation and know exactly what you're doing.

 

(You don't sound like you have clear rules and regulations or the power to send someone home. This is what is making you feel powerless. If you have an employee getting in your face, why are they still at the job site for the rest of that day or the next day?)

 

You need to talk to upper management and get clear on the rules and regulations. What power do you have? If you find that you don't really have any, you're being used as a cushion to soften the blow between employees and upper management who don't want to deal with the employees. If that's the case, start job hunting! Immediately!

 

3 - You need to get morale up. It's certainly not for the bad employees you're talking about. It's for everyone else who is getting brought down by their behavior and the vibe they are creating at the workplace.

 

I wish you the best of luck!

[HappySenior]

I read a quote from somewhere that said

"Never take a job where you are expected to do things the job doesn't give you the authority to do." (or something along those lines)

 

Sounds like that could be the type of job you have...

[preraph]

I learned a long time ago not to accept a management position over people unless I have firing authority. That's the ONLY way you get respect. If they know everything they say or do only gets YOU in trouble with your boss, they have no incentive to play nice.

 

My last management position, i had that agreement, and then they welched on it. So I told them around Thanksgiving if we didn't get back to my three conditions I gave on hiring, I was quitting, and I was gone after the holidays but I let them give me a severence package to keep my mouth shut.

 

You can't manage if they won't let you MANAGE and fire people when needed. The behavior you report is atrocious! Those people need to be fired. Talk to your manager about having firing authority and tell her this isn't working.

[missingu]

Thanks you guys. I think from now, if this continues i might need to resign from this position and just go back to being a storeperson. I'm tired of being treated like an enemy just for doing my job. It's a high school mentality and dumb people. It's a lot of stress to take the stress off of my coworkers.

 

And Its really not worth it. I also realize people are just jealous. They can't handle that I'm in charge when they think they should be.

[Inspire]

First and foremost, your supervisors were right. Losing your cool only serves to empower the associate. One tip I'd give to someone new to a management role or even a seasoned manager that may not have a lot of experience in dealing with a difficult employee is to never have the talk when you're emotional. It's better to walk away, gather your thoughts and approach the situation with a clear head.

If you're in middle-management it would be a good idea to partner with your direct supervisor and discuss a plan of action. Document infractions, continue to share your findings with your supervisor(s) and take this opportunity to brush up on your company's "Code of Conduct" and "Employee Guidelines" ... Don't just rely on their knowledge on the subject. Get involved and become an expert on what the company expectations are. Those will serve as a the basis for corrective actions going forward.

If you've been working alongside of these employees as a peer in your prior role it may be a difficult road ahead.

 

[dispatch3d]

If you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty, but the pig likes it.

 

That foolish quote aside - you need to walk away if things like that are getting too heated. Or leave the room. Focus on controlling your own behaviour despite what they are doing.

 

I think you'd also do well to set different expectations for different people, and try to accept them for who they are. Not every employee you hire is going to be a star, and sometimes you have to be OK with shoddy work, or give lighter feedback than you would prefer (maybe they take criticism poorly?).

 

I would distance myself (personally) from office gossip, which is probably mostly what that employee whose "toxic" does. I realize there is only so much you can do, but if you don't participate in those conversations it goes a long way. I also don't try to get personally involved with people I work with - I think it shortens the period of time I can maintain healthy boundaries with them.

 

I put less emphasis on the ability to fire a troublesome employee than others. I've only really "managed" three people - and I for sure never had firing authority over any of them. One of them became insubordinate enough that I was fed up, but they were all there for short periods of time (students). At any rate I got along - mostly - with 2/3 of them. I was able to get my point across usually more-so with indirect comments than direct, although I certainly used a combination. One employee talked to me too much/asked for help too often and I said I only get to talk to my manager once a month. Oops I wanted him to talk to me once a week. Just as an example of something indirect that had a good effect. Later I setup weekly meetings with my coworker/employee (we were closer to equals) and I was able to manage his workflow then. I largely left the details of the tasks up to them and only delt with giving the bigger picture and removing any obstacles (eg. how do I do this, I'm stuck here, etc.).

 

The biggest problem employee he'd anger me and I'd say I'm listening to eminem the rest of the day. Haha that worked in-so-much he'd back off for that period of time.

[missingu]

I went and saw my doctor and told him I am stressed and that it's affecting my personal life. He told me having time off alone won't work. He gave me his email and told me to document everything from now on and send it to him so that he has a record of it and then if I do go to hr I will have sufficient evidence of what has been happening. I found it very helpful. 

 

I'm having a couple of days off (I am never sick) as i feel annoyed that management hasn't backed me up and this employee just goes on as if nothing happened when she should've been given a warning. 

[Eternal Sunshine]

I would be careful with walking away from a heated or emotional conversation. I did that once and my co-worker reported me to HR for disrespecting him. What happened is that I set up a meeting to discuss an issue. The conversation got heated and was going downhill fast. I got up and said "I'm leaving now" and went back to my office thinking that I have done the right thing. I read his HR complaint and it said something like "She snapped her laptop shut very loudly".. lol

 

Nothing much came out of the HR thing but there is no winning with difficult people.

[Watercolors]

Quote

 

If I document everything as a middle manager can I get rid of these people? I'm tired of the drama i just want to go to work do my job make money and go home to the people who do love me.

 

 

Everyone here who is a manager has given you great advice. The only way to make this drama disappear is to take back your power as the store associates store manager (I assume that's what your role is). You cannot treat your associates like friends. You have to treat them like employees. And, not emotionally react to the toxic personalities when they antagonize you.  If you have the authority to cut the bullies (the two friends) retail shifts and send them home if they become combative and disruptive, then do it. They'll quickly see the consequence of their behavior is the loss of a paycheck. Quickest way to regain your credibility as the store manager is to follow through with what you say, not emotionally respond, document their behavior and send regular communication to your boss if you don't have the authority to fire these store associates. As a store manager, you should have the authority to fire them or at the very lease, send them home from their shift if they are creating chaos for customers and you and the other associates. 

[Inspire]

@Watercolors The OP said they were in middle management. While things vary by company, my experience has been that people in these positions have limited authority.

To the OP, I know how you must feel because I have met managers throughout my career that avoided confrontation (to a fault), they swept things under the rug and ignored the bigger picture. Maybe it would be worthwhile to look at finding another job or is there an option to transfer to a different division within the company? In the meantime, make sure you're doing everything on the up and up. Continue documenting/sharing notes with your supervisor and not just in draft form but also by e-mail.

[JoeyArnold]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:38 AM, Eternal Sunshine said:

Nothing much came out of the HR thing but there is no winning with difficult people.

 

Very true.

[missingu]

I have thought about this seriously. My downfall is my willingness to call people out who are bullies and nasty people and defend other people in management that won't defend me to the same degree. 

 

I have decided from now on I don't care. Im going to work, doing my job and not saying anything to anyone about bad behaviour as it gets rewarded by higher management anyway so why should I care. They have put me in this position and I am just a cushion so they don't have to deal with it. Not just higher management but the managers I work with too. Im sticking to that, I've tried but can't do it on my own anymore. 

 

We had A meeting with staff today and when asked if I wanted to add anything my reply was no which is unusual. I'm sticking to that. 

 

I'm going to enroll in leadership training and get out asap. Hopefully somewhere closer to home and better money and all round just a better job. 

 

Thanks for your awesome replies I really appreciate them. 

[JTSW]

Wow, i feel like i'm reading MY boss' thread. 

I work in a company where my manager is very toxic and a nasty bully.

The main director is too soft and never did anything about it for many years because he felt like he couldn't get any power over her.

Eventually she began coming into work drunk and medicated for depression (i found hidden empty alcohol bottles and cans in the office). 

This is where she was called in and was issued warnings about her behavior. He had to go down the employee welfare route first and couldn't straight up fire her.

She has improved significantly but still bad mouths people. 

She also knows that if her behavior became out of hand again that she will indeed get fired.

[missingu]

Yeah it's just not worth getting upset over. We just have to hope that eventually they come undone. Just sit by quietly and watch it all unfold. Because it will. And when it does I'll have nothing to do with it. 

 

The difference is I was on very good terms with this employee until I realized she is manipulative and not a friend at all and i was too smart to want to be her friend Anymore. I've noticed she picks out dumb people to rally to her side. Or weak people who don't stand up for themselves. 

[missingu]

Just came to say after the events of the last few weeks and reading a whole heap of Google articles my eyes have been opened wide about my work situation. 

 

I am at fault and I didn't even realize until now. I am still easily manipulated. I didn't think I was but I am. I make myself look bad to people who don't know me  by reacting to a narcissist employee. 

 

Every thing I've read she has the text book personality of a narc. I got promoted after getting on really well with her she changed and didn't like that I'm in charge of her. New employees came in and didn't know the situation so she has gained their trust and they have sided with her. She is an expert at turning people against eachother until now. 

 

I will not play into her hands anymore. When she wants conflict I won't give it. When she acts out in front of everyone I'll take the high road and ignore it and hopefully expose some people  for what they truly are. I'm not engaging in any sort of conflict with her. 

 

It's Christmas and I'm excited for an awesome new year where things change for me for the better. 

 

I look at everyone as dumb but I'm dumb for enabling her disgusting behaviour. 

 

Wish me luck and thanks heaps again. She'll get found out eventually and her flying monkeys too. 

[missingu]

Hi all, it's a new year and I'm excited. I've been going to work with a spring in my step. I had an issue that came up between 2 employees today, held a meeting with them,listened to them argue and get angry and didn't say anything at all. Until I started getting a headache and I then told them that they are assuming things about eachother and all I would like is for them to do their work and worry about the job. 

Narcissist asked if I was going to say anything and i simply said no. Little wins. I think I'm starting to understand no matter how much I dislike an employee it pays to pretend I'm listening when they speak. Even when I think they are crazy, show no emotion. 

 

[JTSW]

This is great. Well done 🙂.

I believe that woman was trying to get to either quit or do something so that you would lose your job.

My manager does this.

She has pushed many people out of the company.

She tried it with one guy by reporting him for pulling on her bra strap when he didn't.

It was investigated and he strongly maintained his innocence. 

Eventually, when she realized that he wasn't going to get fired for it, she admitted to making it up because she was mad at him.

It takes a special kind of nasty person to do something like that.

Edited January 3, 2020 by JTSW

[missingu]

Yeah well things are changing. I'm extra friendly to people. I don't really care about drama I just want them to do their jobs. When my colleagues who hate confrontation come back to work,  they won't like it as they are used to me being the bad guy and shirking their responsibility. 

It's time that enough is enough. It interferes with My home life and they just go home and don't care. 

 

[missingu]

I'm back.. another thing I have figured out is on our management team the 2 other managers hate confrontation and will do anything to avoid it. 

I had staff ask me why I did a roster a different way so i told them the truth which is that the 2 other managers want it that way so I did what they asked. 

Manager comes into work and asked me why the roster is different so I told him "remember that's what you 2 guys wanted and agreed on before Christmas". I don't care as I'm on the early shift so you guys make those decisions as you're on the late shift. He replies "yes that's right"..so I ask him again while I'm doing the roster "so do you want me to change it back or keep it the same"..he replied "same"..

Now I know they both like to pass the buck. I've just consciously realized after all this time which creates problems for me with the staff. Staff blame me for everything as they don't know the real truth of what's going on. 

This one manager just wants to be friends with everyone and hates conflict so he'll push his decisions that cause conflict back to me and blame me for them. 

So I'm just not making decisions and if any one has questions I'll just tell the truth which is I'm just doing as I'm told by those 2 managers. 

Any one have this situation or had it before?? How did you handle it? 

 

[major_merrick]

The problem you have is that you're on the hook for everything, but your power is basically nonexistent.  And your underlings know it!  You exist as a buffer between the employees and the management that actually has the power.  Tough spot.  I think you're discovering that all you can do is just give EVERYBODY what they want.  Your managers are typical management - they want to be idle.  The employees want to spend their time creating drama instead of working.  So you let them be.  You focus on disengaging from everything, and obfuscating all details. 

In the meantime....look for a different job.  Find a spot where you can either be lower or higher, but not in the same pinch where you're at.  Chances are, you're not getting paid what you're worth where you're at anyways.  Focus on creating an exit for yourself BEFORE you absolutely have to have it!