Partying with coworkers OK?

[uncertain80]

Hi all,

 

Long time reader, first time poster (this is a throwaway account).

 

I'm hoping to gain some perspective on my situation, essentially to figure out if I'm being too controlling or if my concerns are legitimate.

 

Backstory: My wife and I are just over 40 years old and have been married for 10 years. We have two kids, 4 and 8 years old and we both work full time. We've had our rough patches in the past, but currently things (mostly) couldn't be better. We spend quality time together, enjoy sex regularly, and mostly have good communication. I couldn't be more in love with her and she couldn't be more in love with me (she both says and acts that way, at least).

 

I'm an introvert and she's an extrovert. I have a couple of very good friends that I go out with regularly, sometimes partying. I mostly enjoy doing things together with her at home, but we occasionally go out together - be it to have dinner together at a restaurant, visit common friends, or go out partying. With the young kids, these outings require some planning with babysitting etc. so not very often.

 

She has many good girlfriends from different times in her life. She meets with them regularly during the week (maybe 3-4 times a month) to grab dinner together, have a glass of wine, catch up on gossip or whatever. She also goes out partying with them maybe once every two months, usually staying out until 1-2 am, as well as occasionally going on weekend trips (maybe twice a year). I no concerns whatsoever about these get-togethers, although I sometimes complain when I find that there are too many in quick succession. On the flip side, she sometimes complains that I can be too demanding of her time and that she doesn't have the energy to have date nights and have sex as often as I would like, which is probably fair.

 

However, there is one area which I'm most bothered with and was hoping to get some perspective on. My wife works in finance and regularly meets with colleagues after work, usually on a Friday. Sometimes these gatherings are organized by her company (Christmas party's etc.) and sometimes she and her coworkers (about ~15 in her department, 5 male and 10 female) meet to party themselves. Usually these last until 1-2 AM. They are almost always for employees only (so no spouses) and there is always alcohol involved. Inviting spouses is not an option.

 

Now, given that our marriage is solid and happy, I completely trust my wife. However, these late-night parties really annoy me. I find it inappropriate and unprofessional to go out partying with male coworkers without spouses being invited and I'm also a bit hurt that she chooses to spend a Friday evening off with her coworkers rather than with me. The work-week is often hectic and weekends are really the only time to unwind together.

 

I've discussed this with her in the past and she really doesn't understand my point of view. She says that if these gatherings annoy me that means I don't trust her and that in itself would be a big issue for her. She also points out that most of the other females are married and their husbands don't seem to have any issue with their wife's attending. Furthermore, she says that if she stops going to these parties there is no telling what I'll ask for next. Basically, that I'll next ask her to stop partying with her girlfriends etc. She says that we have to have our independent lives and views marriage as more of a "partners in crime" situation, while I want more of a "in this together" marriage).

 

These are all good points. But still. I'm really annoyed about the situation. I'd really like some perspective and opinions from others. Am I being too controlling and possessive? Does it make sense to find these parties inappropriate, even though I trust her to not cheat? And if you think my concerns are legitimate, does the same apply to company organized parties (which are important for networking) as well as the employee organized parties (which are mostly for partying)?

 

Please help!

[Maplewaffle]

Company parties are normal, and no, spouses aren't always welcome because clearly you are not in the business with her.

 

She sounds like a social butterfly, perhaps you are overthinking or have other reasons to think that her behavior is "inappropriate". Parties till 1-2AM sound like light party '"gettogethers", most in my company last till 8AM.

[schlumpy]

I've discussed this with her in the past and she really doesn't understand my point of view. She says that if these gatherings annoy me that means I don't trust her and that in itself would be a big issue for her. She also points out that most of the other females are married and their husbands don't seem to have any issue with their wife's attending. Furthermore, she says that if she stops going to these parties there is no telling what I'll ask for next. Basically, that I'll next ask her to stop partying with her girlfriends etc. She says that we have to have our independent lives and views marriage as more of a "partners in crime" situation, while I want more of a "in this together" marriage).

 

I'm on your side. The excuses she gave you are not acceptable. They come across as veiled threats. This is not the viewpoint of a concerned and loving spouse. It's the viewpoint expressed by spouse that feels you are taking something away from them that they don't want to give up. They see you as an obstacle.

 

These parties are very important to her and you will have to find out why. Take the blinders off and get the radar up and running.

 

Forget all the happy home stuff and start taking a very hard, long look at your relationship.

[Maplewaffle]

I'm on your side. The excuses she gave you are not acceptable. They come across as veiled threats. This is not the viewpoint of a concerned and loving spouse. It's the viewpoint expressed by spouse that feels you are taking something away from them that they don't want to give up. They see you as an obstacle.

 

These parties are very important to her and you will have to find out why. Take the blinders off and get the radar up and running.

 

Forget all the happy home stuff and start taking a very hard, long look at your relationship.

 

These parties are important because they strengthen teamwork and socializing is often 50% of the business. These parties are very normal. If the OP has other reasons to feel suspicious then it'd be great to know those reasons.

[PegNosePete]

These are all good points.

No, I don't think they are good points.

 

If the parties annoy you then you don't trust her? That is a leap and a half in logic there. You have explained that it's not about trust, it's about spending quality time together. She is prioritising spending quality time with her friends and coworkers whereas you would like to spend more quality time together.

 

Then she flips it around and makes it all about you, and how your lack of trusty is a big issue for her. She expects you to understand this, but she doesn't understand your desire to spend quality time together? This is manipulative tactics. She is not trying to find a solution that pleases everybody: she is trying to WIN, and she is punching below the belt.

 

The other women's husbands' lack of issues is nothing to do with you. Besides, neither of you have any idea what is discussed behind their closed doors.

 

The escalation of control she is implying is ridiculous too. That could be applied to almost anything. So you ask her not to leave dirty plates in the sink, don't tell me what to do, next you will be banning me from calling my mother!!! Another underhanded technique she is using to WIN rather than to solve issues in her marriage. By this logic she could do absolutely anything she wants, and you can't say anything.

 

The only point she makes that I agree with is that you absolutely do have to have your independent lives. But you also need to have your together lives too. Where the balance between those two lies, is down to each individual couple to determine. Do I think you're being reasonable here? Well, it's difficult to know without knowing your schedules. If you're together every night and every weekend except she goes out on Fridays then I think that is absolutely reasonable. If she's out multiple nights a week and some weekends then I think most people would agree that you're being reasonable asking her to reign it in.

[ExpatInItaly]

Have you ever met any of these coworkers, OP?

[uncertain80]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It has helped me rethink some of her points.

 

The only point she makes that I agree with is that you absolutely do have to have your independent lives. But you also need to have your together lives too. Where the balance between those two lies, is down to each individual couple to determine. Do I think you're being reasonable here? Well, it's difficult to know without knowing your schedules. If you're together every night and every weekend except she goes out on Fridays then I think that is absolutely reasonable. If she's out multiple nights a week and some weekends then I think most people would agree that you're being reasonable asking her to reign it in.

 

It's somewhere in the middle. We are together 4-5 nights a week, but often use those to meet with family, help the kids out with homework etc., work from home, go to bed early due to exhaustion or simply don't have the energy to do anything but watch Netflix. I'd say we maybe have quality time together as a couple 1-2 times a week for 2 hours at a time.

[uncertain80]

Have you ever met any of these coworkers, OP?

 

A couple of times, mostly when there have been company functions with the entire firm (not just her department). They are friendly and likable.

[d0nnivain]

Company happy hours after a long week are pretty normal in certain industries like finance. They are no big deal but they generally break up around dinner time -- 7 - 8 p.m. 2-3 hours of after work drinking should be more then enough binding time. The ones that go on through 1 -2 a.m. are trouble. I don't know what industry maplewaffle works in but there is no such thing as a 15 hour overnight work party from 5 p.m. to 8 a.m. Oh hell no. I can only imagine how screwed up that work culture is.

 

I don't really see / sense cheating in your post but I wonder if your wife has a problem with alcohol? She's doing a lot of drinking.

 

Moreover, how to you know they are spouses only? Never heard of such a thing. In all the companies where I worked that engaged in this behavior -- heavy drinking after work on Fridays, by 7 p.m. SOs were always welcome. The 1st round was usually just the co-workers but that was more a function of we left work together & went to a place convenient to the office so it was logistical not a desire to exclude people. Besides, these events happened in public bars so it's not like there weren't others around. If it was a closed event, it started earlier before 5, usually at lunch, & was in a private room, not a bar open to the public. Your wife just doesn't want you there & that is a problem.

Edited December 3, 2019 by d0nnivain

[uncertain80]

 

I don't really see / sense cheating in your post but I wonder if your wife has a problem with alcohol? She's doing a lot of drinking.

 

 

Thank you for your helpful reply.

 

I discussed alcohol misuse with her many years ago, because she often enjoys 1 glass of wine and/or beer after work. Maybe I was being overly critical at the time, because this was usually limited to 1 glass, maybe 2-3 times a week. Last time I raised this point she got extremely defensive and angry and actually said that I shouldn't comment on her drinking again, so I haven't raised the topic since then.

 

Regarding the work parties, I hadn't really thought about them in the context of alcohol abuse. She does drink quite frequently (often with me, of course), usually in moderation, but at times she drinks quite heavily, sometimes to the point of becoming sick. I have a sense that the work parties involve heavy drinking, so maybe that could be the key factor. Don't exactly know how to deal with that without getting major blowback...

[d0nnivain]

Alcoholics don't like it when you comment on their drinking. They won't change until they want to change.

 

In the short run focus on safety & moderation. I'd start with how she gets home from these events & making sure she's not driving. Some hardcores give me grief about being an enabler but my parents were alcoholics & I always drove them when they were drinking in the era before Uber/Lyft. I didn't clean up messes but I didn't want them to get into car wrecks & hurt somebody else. I will always offer a drunk a sober ride rather then risk the public's safety.

 

Don't try to tell her she can't go to happy hour but encourage her to come home by 7 - 8 p.m. for dinner.

[PegNosePete]

I'd say we maybe have quality time together as a couple 1-2 times a week for 2 hours at a time.

Then, I think you are totally within your rights asking her to cut back on the co-worker outings and to put more effort into couple bonding.

 

If it was a closed event, it started earlier before 5, usually at lunch, & was in a private room, not a bar open to the public. Your wife just doesn't want you there & that is a problem.

Yes, good point. If it's company organised then spouses not being invited is understandable, but company organised events are presumably a lot less frequent. Co-workers going out on a Friday night is different, why are partners not allowed? Who made those rules? And the fact they go on so late is unusual too. It doesn't really add up to me. She is acting like a single woman.

 

If she's not prepared to hear your concerns then I would advise marriage counselling before this problem becomes worse. It could well lead to the end of your marriage if it's swept under the rug. Better to deal with it now...

Edited December 3, 2019 by PegNosePete

[uncertain80]

Alcoholics don't like it when you comment on their drinking. They won't change until they want to change.

 

In the short run focus on safety & moderation. I'd start with how she gets home from these events & making sure she's not driving.

 

She actually lost her licence two years ago for 6 months due to drunk driving... coming home from a work party. I really can't believe how blind I have been

[uncertain80]

Co-workers going out on a Friday night is different, why are partners not allowed? Who made those rules?

 

I'm really not sure. She says she can't change it on her own (which I totally believe) and I don't think I'd be comfortable being the only spouse tagging along...

 

Regarding why partners aren't allowed, I get the sense that it is because they are a close knit group with a lot of work banter. E.g. they have their own Snapchat group where they joke almost everyday and I'm sure that to people outside the group many jokes would seem strange. So basically, including spouses would change the vibe and make it more stilted.

[d0nnivain]

Oh dear . . . .this is way more about booze then cheating, although she is choosing the bottle over you & your family.

 

If you have never been consider going to an Al-Anon meeting to learn how to cope when your spouse is an addict.

 

I promise the bulk of the co-workers go home at a decent hour. This is just her time to overindulge without what she sees as you being judgmental. She has a problem but doesn't want to face it.

[uncertain80]

Oh dear . . . .this is way more about booze then cheating, although she is choosing the bottle over you & your family.

 

If you have never been consider going to an Al-Anon meeting to learn how to cope when your spouse is an addict.

 

I promise the bulk of the co-workers go home at a decent hour. This is just her time to overindulge without what she sees as you being judgmental. She has a problem but doesn't want to face it.

 

I hope I haven't given the impression that she is neglecting her family. She truly is a wonderful and caring mother, very involved in everything our kids do and gives them love and attention. As I mentioned in the original post, she is also a wonderful wife and definitely doesn't neglect our marriage, although I'd like more quality time with her and find these Friday night outings problematic.

 

So, no, her life isn't overwhelmed by alcohol misuse, but yes, binge drinking on weekends might be an issue.

 

Regarding others going home at a decent hour: I know that senior managers etc. go home pretty early from these functions, but most junior people (her among them) stay until late. So it's definitely not just her.

 

But your overall point is well taken. Thank you for giving me good advice and a very helpful perspective.

Edited December 3, 2019 by uncertain80

[Crazelnut]

So she's out partying multiple nights a week, until after midnight, and you're home watching the kids. She's had a DUI. OP, you've got a real problem on your hands. You say what a good wifeand mother she is, but I'm not buying it. She's acting like a childless 20-something.

 

In my opinion, you should try to get her into IC and/or MC. Industry norms aside, no 40-something mother of 2 needs to be out partying every week! And getting a DUI!

[d0nnivain]

Being an alcoholic does not make her a bad person. It's just eye opening that there is a problem here.

 

You will get through this but the initial realizations can be jarring

[mark clemson]

If you really want to know what's going on at these work parties until 1-2 am, then you could consider asking a lawyer about the legality of having her observed by a PI and (if legal) send one to observe at a bar or wherever they go.

 

I'm NOT recommending you do this. Just pointing out that that way you'd know.

 

If *I* was in a similar situation and decided to do this, I would be extremely careful to "cover my tracks" in terms of hiring the PI, etc. I would not want my wife to ever find out I did it, nor would I ever speak to her about it. Given strong feelings about "trust" I would assume her finding out would create the risk of divorce.

 

If nothing inappropriate was seen, I could rest easy.

 

If something very inappropriate was seen I would remain calm and speak to a lawyer about next steps (not necessarily divorce).

 

If something "borderline inappropriate" was seen (such as my wife with her arm around a co-worker but nothing more) that would probably be the trickiest situation as I'd have to decide if it mattered to me enough to follow up. Then I'd have to figure out a way to "intervene" (if I was going to) without revealing how I know, or possibly even what I know, etc. I would continue to be extremely cautious so as to minimize the risk of divorce or similar issues.

 

But that is all just hypothetical and for me. I'm not in a situation where my wife is out until 1 am on Friday nights regularly drinking with work friends.

[mark clemson]

By the way, if there is some time in the mornings where you are both awake but not fully up/out of bed, you could consider "cuddling" during that time. Don't make it about sex, just make it about cuddling at first. This may increase your and her bonding during this busy time in your lives.

 

Many women like "cuddling" and this might (but of course might not) eventually start turning into more sex.

[Els]

What exactly do you mean by "party"? Are they literally hitting up nightclubs together, or is it just drinks?

 

 

Drinks are totally normal, but drinking until 1-2am on the regular feels a bit strange to me. But... I'm not in finance.

[alphamale]

work and partying don't mix under any circumstances. this is from experience

[clia]

I think you are overreacting. You said yourself that she's home with you 4-5 nights a week, which means she's only going out 2-3 times a week, once or twice with her girlfriends and once with her coworkers. She obviously considers her coworkers to be her friends, so it's really no different than going out with a group of friends. That's likely why spouses aren't invited. (Does she invite you when she goes out for dinner or drinks with her girlfriends? If not, does it bother you that you aren't invited?) Some work environments are like this. I worked in law and it was similar -- we would often go out after work and it would lead until partying until after midnight. And there was nothing inappropriate going on, either. And I guess everyone is different, but I don't think staying out until 1-2 on a weekend night is that out of the ordinary or crazy.

 

I suspect your problem is really that there are men as a part of this group, which means that you don't trust her for some reason. If you two can only get 2 hours of quality time together a couple of times a week, that's an entirely different issue and requires both of you to put more focus on that, but I really don't think her doing her own thing 2-3 nights a week is a big deal. Presumably you have some nights where you do your own thing?

[vla1120]

Alphamale beat me to the punch. I was going to mention that I've seen people lose their jobs because of compromising behavior when drinking. I understand the whole "teamwork" concept of Friday happy hours, but there is nothing keeping your wife from leaving when the rest of upper management leaves so that she can come home to have dinner with her family.

 

Maybe you want to remind her that the "upper management" likely made it to that position by NOT putting themselves in the position of over-drinking in a "work-related" setting. She could be risking her future career at this company with her behavior.

[RecentChange]

Wow, I work in finance and I thought we were really tying one on because we stayed out till 10 PM, once.....

 

I agree with the way the discussion is going - it sounds like she has some issues with alcohol use.

 

We drink at my office, it's common place to open a bottle of wine or two on a Friday. Every few months we will go out after work for a happy hour (usually when out of area co-workers are in town).

 

Things are usually done and everyone is heading home to their families by 8 PM - Once we stayed out till 10 - once in 15 years.

 

I couldn't imagine drinking till 1-2 AM. Umm isn't that at least 7-8 hours after they got off work? Does EVERYONE stay drinking till that late? I find it doubtful that the whole office stays and gets tanked till the AM hours.

 

And the DUI is totally unacceptable - and to keep drinking till the AM hours after an incident like that is worrisome.

 

How does she usually get home after these work gatherings now?