All out of ideas...

[Thelambofdeth]

So some background on my situation:

 

I'm 26 and I basically have crippling social anxiety. I feel into the incel scene and few times and because of my lack of any actual female companionship, I do have a porn addiction. I do have a few friends, but they don't really share the same interests as I. For the past year and a half, a least one a week we go to the couple of bar. Ones is a wine bar , one is a dice. In that span I've been bit on only a few times and it's either gone nowhere, or I was too oblivious to notice. But I flat put cannot approach any female I see out that I'm attracted to. It never gets any easier for me.

 

The top two recommendations are also dating sites and meet-ups. I've tried dating sites and it hasn't worked. Not bc the dates don't really go anywhere or whatnot, but because I can't get any. I've has tinder, okc, and humble active for years and I cant get a single reply. I'm 6'3, black, I work out 3x a week and have six pack abs, I groom to the point of metro sexuality, I wear literal high fashion suits(tom ford, slp, Burberry,) I make decent money, and I live alone. I know I'm not really physically attractive, but I'm not totally ugly either, so the cpmplate lack of any replies or matches on these sites have all but destroyed any confidence I could have with females irl.

 

When I go out I'm basically uniformly ignored by females. Hell, pretty often I get compliments from guys based on my attire but females completely ignore. I don't get looks, or glances or casual chit-chat. Nothing.

 

The second recommendation tends to be meets ups. And while that is probably more conductive to meet a mate, its not possible for me as an introvert. None of my friends are really interested in the ones I'd attend, and I simply cannot go alone. Thus the only option I really had are the bars I frequent, which has beared no fruit.

 

Hence why at this point entertaining hoookers seems to be the only option. The feeling of loneliness and unhappiness is reaching levels I cant handle. Constantly seeing everyone else with dates, fwbs, gfs, wives, etc while I have nothing is just killing me. If I has the luxury of dating sites or parties, of if I had tons of friends or was still in college, or an extrovert, I would have other venues, but I don't.

 

At this point porn isn't enough, and I know empty sex as a business transaction likely won't help my situation in the long run, but I don't know what else to do.

[Happy Lemming]

Are there any "Speed Dating" events in you area?? Also, some "Speed Dating" coordinators offer coaching prior to the event. You may want to explain that you are an introvert and need some coaching/assistance.

[Thelambofdeth]

Are there any "Speed Dating" events in you area?? Also, some "Speed Dating" coordinators offer coaching prior to the event. You may want to explain that you are an introvert and need some coaching/assistance.

 

I have no idea, but even if there is it's not really something I could do. I can't even approach girls in bars, I'm not social enough to try that. Not to mention I'm not just introverted but rigid upon first meeting. Speed dating is all about first impression and shorts burst interaction, and those are hardly my strengths.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[Happy Lemming]

I can't even approach girls in bars, I'm not social enough to try that

 

It is structured, you register on-line (in advance), go to the venue, you get a name tag/number. When the event starts you'll chit-chat with a woman for 6-8 minutes, a bell will sound and you'll move to the next table. Everyone there is looking to date, its not a cold approach. The women aren't expecting you to be some social Casanova, just chit-chat ask a few "canned" questions.

 

You kind of "keep score" as you go, and turn in a sheet at the end of the evening (to the coordinator) if you liked woman #3 and she liked you. Then the coordinator will pass on your contact information to each other, and its up to you to call her and set up a "real date".

 

If you are really that nervous, call a "Speed Dating" coordinator and talk to them, prior to registering. Ask about "coaching"... You've got nothing to lose but a phone call.

 

I did some checking and it appears "Speed Dating" events only cost about $34; I have no idea what the "coaching" would cost, but look into it.

[Thelambofdeth]

It is structured, you register on-line (in advance), go to the venue, you get a name tag/number. When the event starts you'll chit-chat with a woman for 6-8 minutes, a bell will sound and you'll move to the next table. Everyone there is looking to date, its not a cold approach. The women aren't expecting you to be some social Casanova, just chit-chat ask a few "canned" questions.

 

You kind of "keep score" as you go, and turn in a sheet at the end of the evening (to the coordinator) if you liked woman #3 and she liked you. Then the coordinator will pass on your contact information to each other, and its up to you to call her and set up a "real date".

 

If you are really that nervous, call a "Speed Dating" coordinator and talk to them, prior to registering. Ask about "coaching"... You've got nothing to lose but a phone call.

 

I did some checking and it appears "Speed Dating" events only cost about $34; I have no idea what the "coaching" would cost, but look into it.

So...pretty much in-person online dating. Considering it's just a few minutes, it basically comes down to looks, so if you're attractive you'll do well. If none if the women happen to "like you" it's a complete waste and I'd just feel worse....

[Happy Lemming]

...but I'm not totally ugly either...

 

Yes... it is mainly about looks, and based on your opening post (which I quoted a portion of); you'll do just fine with a "Speed Dating" event.

 

So what if you don't match with anyone, at least you did try something new. You feel bad now, why not roll the dice, you may meet someone you connect with.

[Thelambofdeth]

Yes... it is mainly about looks, and based on your opening post (which I quoted a portion of); you'll do just fine with a "Speed Dating" event.

 

So what if you don't match with anyone, at least you did try something new. You feel bad now, why not roll the dice, you may meet someone you connect with.

 

Because it's in the wheel-house of something I've already tried and failed. If looks weren't an issue I'd get hit on irl more often and I would get more than literally no matches/replies on tinder and OKC. No, I'm not exactly ugly, and I am tall, and in pretty good shape....but I'm a socially awkward, weird black guy. That's not exactly a recipe for something like speed dating. It already excludes me from too many options before I even start. And failing at another platform to meet women would further diminish my already waning confidence.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[Happy Lemming]

...And failing at another platform to meet women would further diminish my already waning confidence.

 

Why don't you call a "Speed Dating" coordinator, explain your situation and see what they think??

 

I mean its just a phone call...

 

Let me ask you a question, if you were sitting at a Sports Bar (watching the game) having a beer and a woman sat down next to you and made a comment about the game (on the TV), you couldn't respond and talk to her??

[Thelambofdeth]

Why don't you call a "Speed Dating" coordinator, explain your situation and see what they think??

 

I mean its just a phone call...

 

Let me ask you a question, if you were sitting at a Sports Bar (watching the game) having a beer and a woman sat down next to you and made a comment about the game (on the TV), you couldn't respond and talk to her??

 

See, that literally never happens to me. For the past couple of years me and a couple of friends have been going to the same few bars and I've had countless random conversations with guys. I've had dudes compliment my attire or just general stuff. I can think of four times in that whole span I was hit on by women, but I've never one time had a female just make have a random, general conversation with me. It's like I'm totally invisible to them. I see the conversing guys all the time. I can exhibit resting bitch face at times, but women totally ignore me in even the most basic sense. Perhaps I'm just less attractive than I thought.

[Peacemaker1]

If you have tried the dating scene and still nothing, while you are still waiting, why not invest something that goes a longer way around. I am talking about building relationships, and practicing on how to develop and keep relationships. Join a hiking group, or even better go to church and start volunteering. The attire is not as important as how you carry your conversation with women. Something in what you say might have put them off, you can be assertive but not overconfident, you can be humble and vulnerable without being a loser. Talk to a pastor as well if you try to check out a church to do volunteer work, they are experts on relationships. It is possible you may pick up a tip or two.

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Often, people who identify with the incel community, do so for a number of reasons, but usually the #1 thing is that the person who calls themselves an incel is calling themselves that, because socially, it is a step up from being mentally ill.

 

Undiagnosed mental illness is like the #1 killer of men. More men commit suicide than woman by a staggering amount and all suicide is preventable. Furthermore, Men's Rights is saw as almost like a misogynistic thing and often people who speak on Men's Rights are labeled incels usually and are socially attacked, either through social media or by peers.

 

Speaking on Men's Rights is perfectly fine, but you are definitely not an incel. There are no incels. There are people who have untreated mental illnesses and are projecting their frustrations upon the world and as a society, we have failed these men... Or as society will tell you, "These men have failed us". 

 

If you have crippling social anxiety, that is unfortunate, but also, crippling is a contextual thing. Anxiety is a contextual thing. Saying you have crippling social anxiety provides us with zero information, other than the fact that you have an unfounded fear over social situations, which is something quite normal in the youth today due to the sheer drop in peer-peer interactions because of technology. Also, anxiety in peers is often interpreted as arrogance by us. We all think every young kid is just this arrogant snot nosed kid when in reality, most just have social anxiety and don't know what to say, but also do not want to be portrayed as somebody with anxiety, so they lash out.

 

So I don't know if you have crippling social anxiety, but if your mental health is getting in the way of your social life, you need to address it.

 

As for your approaches to meet women, you gotta understand a couple things

 

Offline will always be better than Online... Women have an incredible amount of choice in Online Dating and because of this reason, men who would typically not give these women the time of day in real life, are clamoring for their attention online. Also... There is this whole insurgence of "Filters" and all this other non-sense online today and it is to the point, where today, A LOT of women online are basically cat-fishing with their photos.. Gratuitous angles, very up close with no body shots, slimming clothing, etc. 

 

Make no mistake about it, the Online competition has never been higher for a woman's attention, but the offline competition has never been lower.
 

Offline dating, this is where the men have the power today. But before you begin exploring the world of offline dating, you should probably get your mental health in order, either through medication or therapy or a combination of both. Knowing when to approach women offline takes a keen sense of social awareness, in most places other than the gym. The gym is a great place to meet people because you already know that you two share something in common: The Gym. Once you have something in common, all you really have to do is just find women who share more things in common with you: Something that a lot of people have in common are entertainment, or Netflix. You like Coffee? Me too! What exercises do you prefer? I could try that! You watch Netflix? Me too! These wide associations we have with each other often overlap and these overlappings create opportunities for us, as men, to approach on a more personal level... Like, where do you think Netflix and Chill came about? Sure, there is always some underlying chemistry behind the scenes and you will need time to explore that as well, not just what you two share in common.

 

Good luck dude. 

[d0nnivain]

You say you make decent money & wear high fashion clothes.  If you can afford Tom Ford etc. you can afford to get some training to overcome your crippling social anxiety.  Do an internet search for things like Dale Carnegie.  They teach an executive level course about how to meet people & network.  It's about overcoming your innate shyness & advancing your business.  While the techniques are business oriented politicians take them.  You learn to be more at ease & to remember people's names.  This is not a dating course but the skills transfer.  It's also not cheap but the skills are invaluable.  

 

You need to learn how to be sociable.  Fortunately it is a learned behavior not something you have to be born with.   

 

Take the class or something like it -- no PUA nonsense designed to separate incels form their money -- but a real psychologically based insight into human interaction.  Then transfer the business skills you learn to social settings.  As you work with your counselors over the multi-week course you can ask for individualized tips transferring skills to dating.  

[Foxhall]

what your saying about not going to the meet ups alone because you are introverted,

 

that is not good enough, it is too easy a kop out,

 

going alone to one of these events will help you as it will force you to be more social and not hiding behind your mates,

 

I am an introvert myself, not extreme, but I am certainly not an extrovert,

let no one ever tell me that would stop me from meeting women or standing up in front of a group of people

 

build up coffee dates one on one and so on and build confidence,

 

you are not as shy as you think. 

[Ellener]

I developed an anxiety disorder following a natural disaster, and I am not shy at all, but I did go to a doctor for the panic attacks/severe anxiety and then have some counselling with another guy which really helped.

 

I actually prefer to go to events alone most of the time because I feel it's ok to leave when I've had enough. I broke my foot in the flooding too and it's left me with a slight disability so physically sometimes I've had enough as well as mentally. If I go with friends I feel pressured to overdo it sometimes.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[preraph]

Honestly, I don't know how your looks could be holding you back much since you're 6'3" and six pack!  So I guess it's got to be your social anxiety crippling you.  It must show.  Kudos for going out of your way to dress nice and everything.  On the online dating, is it possible you're only trying for real good looking women (like most guys) and just need to ask out some that are not hot?  

 

Have you been going to church?  If you go to church, get in some activities and volunteer at them and you'll at least meet more people and might meet someone nice.  Some people with social anxiety and also introversion are more comfortable talking to people if they have an "official role" or reason to be doing so.  I am like that.  Throw me in a room with a bunch of people I'm not friends with and I can be very uncomfortable, but give me a reason to talk to them (like signing them up for something or handing out things) and I'm fine, and you might be too.  Just a thought.  

[Thelambofdeth]

19 hours ago, Peacemaker1 said:

If you have tried the dating scene and still nothing, while you are still waiting, why not invest something that goes a longer way around. I am talking about building relationships, and practicing on how to develop and keep relationships. Join a hiking group, or even better go to church and start volunteering. The attire is not as important as how you carry your conversation with women. Something in what you say might have put them off, you can be assertive but not overconfident, you can be humble and vulnerable without being a loser. Talk to a pastor as well if you try to check out a church to do volunteer work, they are experts on relationships. It is possible you may pick up a tip or two.

Yes, I've tried three dating sites and garnered nothing from any of them. I've thought about hiking groups, perhaps, but again, I'd be going alone and I'm difficult in situations where I don't already know people. And church is flat-out nothing something for me.

[Thelambofdeth]

17 hours ago, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

Often, people who identify with the incel community, do so for a number of reasons, but usually the #1 thing is that the person who calls themselves an incel is calling themselves that, because socially, it is a step up from being mentally ill.

 

Undiagnosed mental illness is like the #1 killer of men. More men commit suicide than woman by a staggering amount and all suicide is preventable. Furthermore, Men's Rights is saw as almost like a misogynistic thing and often people who speak on Men's Rights are labeled incels usually and are socially attacked, either through social media or by peers.

 

Speaking on Men's Rights is perfectly fine, but you are definitely not an incel. There are no incels. There are people who have untreated mental illnesses and are projecting their frustrations upon the world and as a society, we have failed these men... Or as society will tell you, "These men have failed us". 

 

If you have crippling social anxiety, that is unfortunate, but also, crippling is a contextual thing. Anxiety is a contextual thing. Saying you have crippling social anxiety provides us with zero information, other than the fact that you have an unfounded fear over social situations, which is something quite normal in the youth today due to the sheer drop in peer-peer interactions because of technology. Also, anxiety in peers is often interpreted as arrogance by us. We all think every young kid is just this arrogant snot nosed kid when in reality, most just have social anxiety and don't know what to say, but also do not want to be portrayed as somebody with anxiety, so they lash out.

 

So I don't know if you have crippling social anxiety, but if your mental health is getting in the way of your social life, you need to address it.

 

As for your approaches to meet women, you gotta understand a couple things

 

Offline will always be better than Online... Women have an incredible amount of choice in Online Dating and because of this reason, men who would typically not give these women the time of day in real life, are clamoring for their attention online. Also... There is this whole insurgence of "Filters" and all this other non-sense online today and it is to the point, where today, A LOT of women online are basically cat-fishing with their photos.. Gratuitous angles, very up close with no body shots, slimming clothing, etc. 

 

Make no mistake about it, the Online competition has never been higher for a woman's attention, but the offline competition has never been lower.
 

Offline dating, this is where the men have the power today. But before you begin exploring the world of offline dating, you should probably get your mental health in order, either through medication or therapy or a combination of both. Knowing when to approach women offline takes a keen sense of social awareness, in most places other than the gym. The gym is a great place to meet people because you already know that you two share something in common: The Gym. Once you have something in common, all you really have to do is just find women who share more things in common with you: Something that a lot of people have in common are entertainment, or Netflix. You like Coffee? Me too! What exercises do you prefer? I could try that! You watch Netflix? Me too! These wide associations we have with each other often overlap and these overlappings create opportunities for us, as men, to approach on a more personal level... Like, where do you think Netflix and Chill came about? Sure, there is always some underlying chemistry behind the scenes and you will need time to explore that as well, not just what you two share in common.

 

Good luck dude. 

You're over simplifying it. The incel community gets trolled and gas-lighted into oblivion, but as a concept, it does exist. All too often people can't relate them and simply try to wife away their existence. It's very frustrating, but people just call them terrorist, ill, fake or bitter mysognist instead of listening or trying to understand. 

 

You're also indulging in a great deal of assumptions. You have no idea if my anxiety struggles are "unfounded" or not. This isn't the case of a scared child being awkward, I'm an adult with issues concerning social anxiety and lack of self-esteem.

 

Trying to talk to women requires social awareness, yes...also confidence. I can't approach women in a bar, I can't even fathom trying to talk to a random woman in a gym. You have too many people who are there strictly to exercise who don't want to be bothered for me to consider that. Not to mention a gym is going to be filled will good-looking, confident, muscular guys who would stand a better chance, anyway. It just seems odd to do, imo.

[Thelambofdeth]

7 hours ago, Foxhall said:

what your saying about not going to the meet ups alone because you are introverted,

 

that is not good enough, it is too easy a kop out,

 

going alone to one of these events will help you as it will force you to be more social and not hiding behind your mates,

 

I am an introvert myself, not extreme, but I am certainly not an extrovert,

let no one ever tell me that would stop me from meeting women or standing up in front of a group of people

 

build up coffee dates one on one and so on and build confidence,

 

you are not as shy as you think. 

Its not a cop out. Being alone would frustrate me to be too awkward to the point I won't even attempt. Which is what's been the case thus far. For me to actually consider meet-ups for the like, I need a frame of reference. If I didn't, I would've finally gone to one at this juncture.

 

You're projecting, dude. No one is disputing what YOU'RE capable of. But the extent of your capability isn't applicable to everyone.

 

How? You don't just finally find people to set up coffee dates.

 

No, I'm just much more introverted than you seem to believe.

[Thelambofdeth]

4 hours ago, preraph said:

Honestly, I don't know how your looks could be holding you back much since you're 6'3" and six pack!  So I guess it's got to be your social anxiety crippling you.  It must show.  Kudos for going out of your way to dress nice and everything.  On the online dating, is it possible you're only trying for real good looking women (like most guys) and just need to ask out some that are not hot?  

 

Have you been going to church?  If you go to church, get in some activities and volunteer at them and you'll at least meet more people and might meet someone nice.  Some people with social anxiety and also introversion are more comfortable talking to people if they have an "official role" or reason to be doing so.  I am like that.  Throw me in a room with a bunch of people I'm not friends with and I can be very uncomfortable, but give me a reason to talk to them (like signing them up for something or handing out things) and I'm fine, and you might be too.  Just a thought.  

The height, body and the clothes has just proved how superfluous they are in juxtaposing to just being good-looking. A women is going to take a good face over most anything else.

 

And I'm afraid that's not possible. I've been(trying) using dating sites for years. I don't even message the hot ones. I know its pointless. My standards are pretty low at this point, and I only message women I believe I'd legitimately gel with. Weird, nerdy or alternative females, who tend to be less attractive. Not only that, I don't send filler messages. I exclusively construct messages that harken back to something mentioned on that profile. And none of that matters because I'm not good-looking. I don't get a single reply.

 

I don't go to church. I'm not religious and the slightest and it would be beyond awkward.

[preraph]

We'll just remember that there are a lot of people who aren't good-looking nonetheless find love. It makes it harder because of your social anxiety and your only hope there is to get out of your comfort zone and try to take part in some hobbies or activities where you will see the same group of people over and over because that's how people get to know each other. 

 

Sometimes we meet people through our jobs and sometimes certain types of jobs such as retail bring us into more contact with people. I recommend having your good full-time job and then maybe working a little fun part time jobs such as retail or being a waiter where you'll meet a lot of other people. 

 

You have just got to get active in some hobbies. It's a lot easier to talk to people when you know your subject. 

 

 

[Thelambofdeth]

11 minutes ago, preraph said:

We'll just remember that there are a lot of people who aren't good-looking nonetheless find love. It makes it harder because of your social anxiety and your only hope there is to get out of your comfort zone and try to take part in some hobbies or activities where you will see the same group of people over and over because that's how people get to know each other. 

 

Sometimes we meet people through our jobs and sometimes certain types of jobs such as retail bring us into more contact with people. I recommend having your good full-time job and then maybe working a little fun part time jobs such as retail or being a waiter where you'll meet a lot of other people. 

 

You have just got to get active in some hobbies. It's a lot easier to talk to people when you know your subject. 

 

 

I understand that. I mean I see non-attractive people with attractive people as well. Often. I know it happens but somewhere those people posses something I don't, and lacking that is more important than what I do have.

 

I've had a job in retail. When I was in college. I sold computing devices at bestbuy. While I did make a few co-worker acquaintances, it didn't do anything for meeting people. It doesn't exactly seems plausible in that regard. Perhaps if you're working as a bartender, yes. I can see the likelihood of establishing connection their via the nature hood of the occupation. In the sense you HAVE to be extroverted. Not so much retail. It's just a static job.

[Happy Lemming]

@Thelambofdeth

Educate me a bit...

Are you afraid to approach women??  Is it a fear?? Are you shaking??

I want to try to understand what you think is going to happen if you make the attempt to meet women in a social situation/party, etc.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Happy Lemming
verb tense

[Thelambofdeth]

50 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

@Thelambofdeth

Educate me a bit...

Are you afraid to approach women??  Is it a fear?? Are you shaking??

I want to try to understand what you think is going to happen if you make the attempt to meet women in a social situation/party, etc.

 

 

It is a fear. I am afraid. It is exclusively tied to women I find attractive. I'm just fine around men and women I'm not interested in. I don't shake or show physical signs of distress, but I'm physically unable to appempt it.

 

I cannot envision a circumstance in which a woman I find attractive would want me to approach. Regardless of the venue or occasion I can't really fathom it. Coincidentally, the few instances in which a woman approached me, they happened to have been more attractive than any one I would even think of engaging. But it happens so infrequently, it's done nothing for my confidence.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

3 hours ago, Thelambofdeth said:

You're over simplifying it. The incel community gets trolled and gas-lighted into oblivion, but as a concept, it does exist. All too often people can't relate them and simply try to wife away their existence. It's very frustrating, but people just call them terrorist, ill, fake or bitter mysognist instead of listening or trying to understand. 

 

You're also indulging in a great deal of assumptions. You have no idea if my anxiety struggles are "unfounded" or not. This isn't the case of a scared child being awkward, I'm an adult with issues concerning social anxiety and lack of self-esteem.

 

Trying to talk to women requires social awareness, yes...also confidence. I can't approach women in a bar, I can't even fathom trying to talk to a random woman in a gym. You have too many people who are there strictly to exercise who don't want to be bothered for me to consider that. Not to mention a gym is going to be filled will good-looking, confident, muscular guys who would stand a better chance, anyway. It just seems odd to do, imo.

 

My assumptions of you are based on reality: The reality of your situation is either you are not getting the help you need, you are creating excuses so you don't push yourself and remain in your comfort zone, or a combination of both.

 

I'm not going to go back and fourth with you on the incel community, if you want to call yourself an incel, go ahead.

 

If you have low-self esteem, you need to go to therapy and work through it... You don't just say "I have low self-esteem" and then settle on having low self-esteem, you attempt to resolve it as best as you can, rather than settling on comfort.

 

Overall, most of your responses in this thread shine a light on the fact that you are very comfortable in this place you find yourself in and that is your first problem... You call yourself an incel, tell yourself you have low self-esteem, tell yourself you have social anxiety, yet what are you actively doing about any of this? Posting on a forum? You need to step outside of this comfy identity you have built for yourself and find something more meaningful to identify with... Of course none of us can know your real situation and have to make assumptions about you, but I think the assumptions you make about yourself are the biggest problem here.

[Happy Lemming]

22 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

It is a fear. I am afraid. It is exclusively tied to women I find attractive. I'm just fine around men and women I'm not interested in. I don't shake or show physical signs of distress, but I'm physically unable to appempt it.

Thank you for your honest response.  OK... now we are getting somewhere.

 

This is an unjustified fear.  There are justified fears (where humans should be afraid and our fight or flight reaction becomes instinct), but being afraid to talk to an attractive woman in a social situation is an unjustified fear.  And what you do to unjustified fears is you take its power away.  You take baby steps to beat that fear by conditioning yourself to push the envelope a little at a time.

 

Let's say you try to talk to a woman and she doesn't want to talk to you.  In my 38 years of dating, I've found 99% of women are polite and decline with a "No, thank you" or "I already have a boyfriend" or something along those lines.  I can only think of a handful of times where the woman was rude.  And you know the old saying about "Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names will never hurt you".  So the absolute worst case scenario is a woman calls me a jerk or a**hole and I turn and leave.  I've cold approached many, many women and I can count on one hand the number who were rude. 

 

So how do we inch closer to beating your unjustified fear... You say you go to bars with your friends, are they sports bars or dance bars, can you give me some more information about the places you frequent, then we can attempt to develop a strategy to take the fear away (in baby steps) from this unjustified fear.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Happy Lemming
verb tense