All out of ideas...

[clia]

52 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

I don't really think people consider how daunting it is to make friends in their late 20s. By this point people have well over made up their minds with the people they're really going to associate with, for the most part. I would love to expand my social circle, but of course that's virtually impossible if you're not....social. People are polite and seemingly nice sure, but actually making friends this late is...eh. And meet-ups seem to be groups of people who already made connections and circles, more so than random people being added to existing parties of people.

 

I do know how daunting it is to make friends as you get older.  I've moved to new cities several times in my life and have had to start over.  What I've found is that people everywhere are trying to meet new people and find new friends.  And not all of those people are super social extroverts, and many are as nervous as you are about being there.  If you see someone standing alone looking awkward, go and talk to them.  No, making friends doesn't happen overnight and it won't happen automatically if you go to one Meetup.  But you attend one, make small talk with a few people, be friendly.  Then you go to another one and maybe see some of the same people, ask them how they are doing, how their 5k went that they told you about at the last one, etc., maybe talk to a couple more people, etc.  And go to another one and another one ... until you become a familiar face and a regular, and next thing you know, you've made some friends.  It's a process that might take a year or two, but it can be done.  You just have to be willing to put forth the effort -- go to events, talk to a few people, etc.  I know you aren't social, but you don't really have any other options if you want to expand your social circle.  You have to get out of your comfort zone.

 

Quote

I don't see why a woman with social anxiety, would want her partner to have the same trait. Two introverts would be...jarring. Personally, I wouldn't care, but it doesn't seem plausible. Wouldn't she prefer someone extroverted to foil with and break her out of her shell? Logically speaking...

 

Social anxiety is not the same thing as being an introvert, so please stop confusing the two things.  Being shy isn't the same thing as being an introvert, either. 

 

I have no idea if a woman with social anxiety would want to date a man with social anxiety, but at least you two would have that in common and would understand the struggles that the other is going through.  It might be worth a try. 

 

Quote

I've had friends give feedback on my interactions...often, and incessantly in fact. And the most sourced criticism seems to be how avoidant, and dismissive I seem to be. Ironically, I give the impression I don't like other people and aren't interested.

 

This is a huge problem if you want to meet people, make new friends, and find women to date.  This, along with your crippling social anxiety are the two things you need to work on/change.  

  

[preraph]

1 hour ago, Thelambofdeth said:

The moniker is simply an amalgamation of my two favorite metal bands sequenced together.

 

But you have to put yourself in other people's shoes because no one would know that except maybe some best buddy of yours.  To a woman, that just sounds like you're some mentally ill maybe religious fanatic scary guy.  So is the "deth" Megadeth?  I like Megadeth.  Even here on Loveshack it gives people the wrong impression right off the bat.  

[preraph]

You need to realize that you are not stuck being those things that are holding you back.  It is entirely up to you how you present yourself.  No one can change you, but YOU can change in whatever way you want.  

 

Listen, being a sarcastic person might get you some attention at first, but NOBODY likes to be around that for long.  You're sarcastic because you're just getting them before they get you.  I hope you're not one of those "only joking" guys, because everyone knows that if it comes out of your mouth, it was a thought in your brain first, so you can't disavow the meaning.  

 

You come across as someone (from what you've told us) who has no empathy for others, but I know that's not true because you have empathy for your mom.  Is this what most people would call "a chip on your shoulder" ?  Are you too easily offended by others or are you the one doing the offending?  

 

Lots of things can cause defensiveness, but at some point you grow and cope and stop letting it make you someone you don't want to be.  

 

 

[K.K.]

I confess that I went looking for the picture that Elaine and Preraph had mentioned and (I’m also way older than you and not hitting on you don’t be freaked out lol) but you are good looking! No lie. 

 

As far as the social anxiety goes, I feel you. I’m the same way and that’s not something easily fixed. When I was younger, alcohol worked wonders. 

 

I admit I have only scanned the thread so far, but one thing that stuck out was that you said you dressed almost to the point of metrosexuality. Me personally, I like a man to look kind of rugged. You look quite a bit older than your age going from your pics, maybe loosen it up a little to attract your age bracket. Throw some jeans on. A  tee. Get some dreads in that hair or hell, wear it au natural without the ponytail.   Smile sometimes! You do have resting bitch face. So do I. It’s a problem, I know. It’s either have people think you’re a jerk or go around smiling like an idiot all day to compensate. Maybe smile sometimes though. 

 

Anyway, I just responded to say that it’s not your looks by any means in attracting somebody so don’t think it is! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[preraph]

Just dress to fit the occasion.  If work needs a 3-pc suit, great.  If you like clothes, then I imagine you're doing fine with them.  If you go from job to a bar, you can always take off the jacket and vest.  

[preraph]

Since you like metal, ever thought about doing a Bohemian Jimi Hendrix look?  You could rock it. 

[Thelambofdeth]

3 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

If you know you over think & you know you come off as cold & aloof, try going out of your comfort zone & simply smiling at someone.  You don't have to be the life of the party to make eye contact, be interested & ask a follow up question or two if someone speaks to you.    draw on your sales skills & pretend you are trying to "sell" them you as a potential date.  Can you think of a more quality product?  

 

I don't smile often. Like if someone says something funny, sure. But I just don't have a natural smile to project. I'm terrible at eye contact with strangers(not while conversing, I'm mean more like random locking gaze) but I'm finally at posing questions and continuing conversations. The issue is beginning one in the first place.

 

2 hours ago, preraph said:

 

But you have to put yourself in other people's shoes because no one would know that except maybe some best buddy of yours.  To a woman, that just sounds like you're some mentally ill maybe religious fanatic scary guy.  So is the "deth" Megadeth?  I like Megadeth.  Even here on Loveshack it gives people the wrong impression right off the bat.  

 

I supposed I never put much thought into something as seemingly inconsequential as a username. And yes the "deth" does stem from Megadeth.

 

1 hour ago, preraph said:

You need to realize that you are not stuck being those things that are holding you back.  It is entirely up to you how you present yourself.  No one can change you, but YOU can change in whatever way you want.  

 

Listen, being a sarcastic person might get you some attention at first, but NOBODY likes to be around that for long.  You're sarcastic because you're just getting them before they get you.  I hope you're not one of those "only joking" guys, because everyone knows that if it comes out of your mouth, it was a thought in your brain first, so you can't disavow the meaning.  

 

You come across as someone (from what you've told us) who has no empathy for others, but I know that's not true because you have empathy for your mom.  Is this what most people would call "a chip on your shoulder" ?  Are you too easily offended by others or are you the one doing the offending?  

 

Lots of things can cause defensiveness, but at some point you grow and cope and stop letting it make you someone you don't want to be.  

 

 

 

Nope, I'm pretty genuine with my sarcasm and don't hold back. Its likely why I've never had female friends, really. Females don't get my sense of humor or interests so I don't feel I can ever be myself around them.

 

I'm certainly not totally unempatheric. Slighty bitter perhaps, but I'm not totally uncaring. I can be sensitive at times and take things too personally, but my sarcasm doesn't come from a sense of malice.

 

1 hour ago, K.K. said:

I confess that I went looking for the picture that Elaine and Preraph had mentioned and (I’m also way older than you and not hitting on you don’t be freaked out lol) but you are good looking! No lie. 

 

As far as the social anxiety goes, I feel you. I’m the same way and that’s not something easily fixed. When I was younger, alcohol worked wonders. 

 

I admit I have only scanned the thread so far, but one thing that stuck out was that you said you dressed almost to the point of metrosexuality. Me personally, I like a man to look kind of rugged. You look quite a bit older than your age going from your pics, maybe loosen it up a little to attract your age bracket. Throw some jeans on. A  tee. Get some dreads in that hair or hell, wear it au natural without the ponytail.   Smile sometimes! You do have resting bitch face. So do I. It’s a problem, I know. It’s either have people think you’re a jerk or go around smiling like an idiot all day to compensate. Maybe smile sometimes though. 

 

Anyway, I just responded to say that it’s not your looks by any means in attracting somebody so don’t think it is! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really know how to guage myself physically. I can't ask my friends, bc they lie, and when I post in the "rate me" threads on reddit the replies are decidedly mixed. On the few occasions women did hit on me, they were conventionally attractive so...idk. If you're even moderately attractive you would get SOME type of attention on dating sites so,...meh.

 

Coincidentally, when I drink, like most people, I'm vastly different. I engage and talk to people and I'm not closed off and I've been told people do respond positively to me. Friends have made note of how I should be more like that sober, but if I could, I would.

 

Yes the last thing I come off is "rugged". My hair is usually slicked back, and majority of the time I'm clean shaven. My nails are...kinda long, and painted black. I almost exclusively wear dress boots, tie, tie clips, etc. I certainly agree I need to smile more, but my smile just comes off as...weird.

 

1 hour ago, preraph said:

Just dress to fit the occasion.  If work needs a 3-pc suit, great.  If you like clothes, then I imagine you're doing fine with them.  If you go from job to a bar, you can always take off the jacket and vest.  

 

That's how I like to dress. I'm actually interested in fashion. I don't dress that way to impress people(considering it does quite the opposite) its actually the way I prefer to. But it has done me no favors.

 

1 hour ago, preraph said:

Since you like metal, ever thought about doing a Bohemian Jimi Hendrix look?  You could rock it. 

Not really. That doesn't really fit with my look. I just always thought I personally looked better with it slicked back. I wore it out one time I didn't have the time to properly do it, and I will say people noticed it a lot more. But I don't like the look of it as much, personally.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[Thelambofdeth]

2 hours ago, clia said:

 

I do know how daunting it is to make friends as you get older.  I've moved to new cities several times in my life and have had to start over.  What I've found is that people everywhere are trying to meet new people and find new friends.  And not all of those people are super social extroverts, and many are as nervous as you are about being there.  If you see someone standing alone looking awkward, go and talk to them.  No, making friends doesn't happen overnight and it won't happen automatically if you go to one Meetup.  But you attend one, make small talk with a few people, be friendly.  Then you go to another one and maybe see some of the same people, ask them how they are doing, how their 5k went that they told you about at the last one, etc., maybe talk to a couple more people, etc.  And go to another one and another one ... until you become a familiar face and a regular, and next thing you know, you've made some friends.  It's a process that might take a year or two, but it can be done.  You just have to be willing to put forth the effort -- go to events, talk to a few people, etc.  I know you aren't social, but you don't really have any other options if you want to expand your social circle.  You have to get out of your comfort zone.

 

 

Social anxiety is not the same thing as being an introvert, so please stop confusing the two things.  Being shy isn't the same thing as being an introvert, either. 

 

I have no idea if a woman with social anxiety would want to date a man with social anxiety, but at least you two would have that in common and would understand the struggles that the other is going through.  It might be worth a try. 

 

 

This is a huge problem if you want to meet people, make new friends, and find women to date.  This, along with your crippling social anxiety are the two things you need to work on/change.  

  

I can't really refute anything you're saying here. But I do know the different between an introvert and just being shy. Introverts don't necessarily have any issues initiating or engaging people. They just acquire their energy internally.

Anyway, perhaps I just am too embedded into my comfort zone. Clearly...

[preraph]

Since you like metal, ever thought about doing a Bohemian Jimi Hendrix look?  You could rock it. 

It's not a matter of them not "getting" your sense of humor.  It's a matter of you are expressing bitterness and that's a turnoff.  Thing is, if you make an effort to be nicer and curb yourself, people will treat you nicer, and you in turn will feel more like being nice yourself.  

 

My favorite Megadeth songs are Peace Sells and In My Darkest Hour.  I'm 67.   Be afraid!

 

I think it's nice young people still listen to music from my eras, the Golden Age of Rock n Roll.  I met Dave M. once when he was kicking heroin.  It was at a metal convention.  He was pretty out of it.  I just introduced myself at the end of a panel discussion and he took my hand and didn't give it back.  Like he got comfort from it, but also that he just forgot he had it!  Afterwards, his manager told me he was in the middle of getting off heroin.  

[Thelambofdeth]

17 minutes ago, preraph said:

Since you like metal, ever thought about doing a Bohemian Jimi Hendrix look?  You could rock it. 

It's not a matter of them not "getting" your sense of humor.  It's a matter of you are expressing bitterness and that's a turnoff.  Thing is, if you make an effort to be nicer and curb yourself, people will treat you nicer, and you in turn will feel more like being nice yourself.  

 

My favorite Megadeth songs are Peace Sells and In My Darkest Hour.  I'm 67.   Be afraid!

 

I think it's nice young people still listen to music from my eras, the Golden Age of Rock n Roll.  I met Dave M. once when he was kicking heroin.  It was at a metal convention.  He was pretty out of it.  I just introduced myself at the end of a panel discussion and he took my hand and didn't give it back.  Like he got comfort from it, but also that he just forgot he had it!  Afterwards, his manager told me he was in the middle of getting off heroin.  

My bitterness is a result of not actually being able to express myself. If everyone else is discussing a random Marvel movie, yet what I saw recently is a French horror film, no one is going to care. So I either say nothing or pretend to gaf about some manufactured, extended commerical. It doesn't matter how nice I am, the conversation is going to flow to places when my interests are ignored. It's kind of hard not to get bitter about that at some point. Like I said, I never come off as rude. Condescending, perhaps, but I'm always polite and well-mannered.

 

I was always partial to Five Magics, Disconnect, and Family Tree. Although Peace Sells is one of the first songs that really got me into metal.

 

Lol that's hilarous.(The interaction, not the drug use :/)  I've yet to see them live(although Lamb of God, the other half I my username, I have) but it was ultimately them, Metallica, Sabbath and Guns n Roses which for me into metal. Idk, something about bands of that era were just so...cool. And of course most of my peers have no clue who they are. Admittedly, most of the stuff I listen to now is just...a mess, though.

[elaine567]

I know you like your dressed up, slightly weird  "look" but have you ever tried going out looking "normal" and "mainstream",  have a few glasses of something alcoholic just to loosen up and see where it takes you. Your goal is to attract not to repel.
Another point, do these random guys who talk to you and compliment you on your dress sense , perhaps think you are gay?
If you are giving off a gay and distant vibe, women are not going to be interested, are they?

[preraph]

You know what?  You are just having a hard time finding your niche.  I used to live in Oklahoma and I was a glam rocker.  Talk about alone.  I did finally meet two younger people who liked it.  But then I moved to Dallas and found my crowd and my niche. 

 

But yes, I know what it's like not liking all the same things everyone else does because I was always on the fringe too.  I don't let that get to me about stuff like movies.  I HATE super hero stuff!  I hate most mainstream stuff.  I can't even agree on movies with my best friend, who used to do some work on movies and she likes the work that goes into them.  She tried to talk to me about that latest Scocese film and I listened but at the end just told her, I hate Mob films.  I have to like the characters.  

 

So you won't find people who agree on everything you like with you, and if you're like me at all, you will have to compartmentalilze your friends and online friends to some extent and not expect to find a "one size fits all" one.  Like I love all that music, but I also am bigtime into crime and law enforcement topics.  So obviously, that's two different sets of friends.  

 

I love GNR's first album.  I have a photo of me sitting on a couch underneath them from back in the day.  I was working in that business in the business end.  Saw them getting off heroin too, but they did it mostly by taking handfuls of pills and drinking waaaay too much.  And have to admit, their writing was better on it.  

 

Keep trying to find your niche.  I had to move to find mine.  You'll be happier!

[Thelambofdeth]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I know you like your dressed up, slightly weird  "look" but have you ever tried going out looking "normal" and "mainstream",  have a few glasses of something alcoholic just to loosen up and see where it takes you. Your goal is to attract not to repel.
Another point, do these random guys who talk to you and compliment you on your dress sense , perhaps think you are gay?
If you are giving off a gay and distant vibe, women are not going to be interested, are they?

I don't mind drinking, and like I've alluded to in a earlier post, I totally loosen up when drunk. But I would have to drink to the point of inebriation, but short of that it doesn't really help. I beleive I have a high alcohol threshold. But I don't really dress "normal".

 

Lol. I've had people assume I was gay, but I don't beleive the compliments are me being hit on. Its usually just a dude in passing, or someone in a group of people I just met as an aside. Its not like they're asking about me or trying to have an entire conversation lol. It's just jarring because females don't even do that....As far as if women assuming I'm gay? I haven't the slightest idea what they think. Its not like I wear bright colors, or act feminine, so idk why they would assume that.

[Piddy]

K.K. mentioned alcohol and you said when you drink your friends say you come across much better.   I'm an introvert and in my dating days (1970's) I didn't have the guts to ask girls to dance etc. at a club without having a few beers.  There's nothing wrong with loosening up with a couple drinks.

 

  Alcohol makes you less inhibited and less self conscious.  It will help you become more social and it sounds like it's just what you need.  It's very difficult to change ones personality.  You are what you are.  So have a few drinks and loosen up and become more confident and approaching women will not be as challenging for you. 

 

Confidence is the number one attraction for women.  Let's not over think this.  

[elaine567]

I know in the UK, we like alcohol a bit more than many other countries, but I guess probably more than 75% of guys/girls would never have met anyone if they didn't get a bit of "Dutch courage" first.
Social anxiety is not uncommon. Alcohol oils the wheels...
It allows shy, introverted and socially inadequate people to meet other shy, introverted and socially inadequate people and they then can get on with the rest of their lives...

[Yosemite]

Try reading, How to win friends and influence people, by Dale Carnegie. It'll help you learn how to start conversations and be social. You can find it on Amazon and it has a lot of good advice.

Are you wearing 3 piece suits to the bar? Try business casual or jeans. It sounds like when you're at a bar, you wait for women to approach you. You shouldn't expect women to hit on you, 99% of women will expect you to make the first move and approach her. If you're just sitting at the bar with RBF expecting a woman to approach you, you'll be waiting a very long time...probably forever.

Referring to women as females is another reason you may have trouble getting dates. Most women don't appreciate that. You'll probably say that you only speak that way online and not irl, but there are women who post here who may have valuable advice for you who won't want to post because you use "female" instead of "women." Put your best foot forward everywhere.

Quit the porn, stop masturbating, stop reading incel websites and go to therapy for your social anxiety. A bunch of guys will probably rush in here to tell you that porn is harmless...but how many of them have porn addictions and are virgins at age 26? Maybe what works for them doesn't work for you. Incel websites are especially toxic. Women have to be very careful about the men they let into their lives so they are finely tuned to detect any hatred for women. Filling your mind with toxic incel garbage means that you'll probably inadvertently say or insinuate something that will set off alarm bells for a woman and make her think that you're misogynistic. Cut that out of your life and you'll have one less reason to be nervous when you speak to women.

Have you ever been to a football game or any other sporting event? Did you wear a three piece suit? Probably not, in the same way you shouldn't wear a 3 piece suit to a bar either. Dressing appropriately for the occasion indicates that you understand social rules and how to successfully interact with society. Being overdressed or underdressed sends a message about you that isn't flattering. If you were at a bar and saw a woman in a wedding dress, you would probably think she just got married. But what if you found out that she's never been married, she just thinks she looks good in wedding dresses, so she has a closet full of them and wears them all the time. Would you be eager to date her? Look forward to going to Starbucks on a Saturday morning with her in a wedding dress? That's what you look like being overdressed at a bar...people are going to be wondering, if we go to the beach is he going to wear a 3 piece suit? What if we go to Applebees, will he wear 3 piece suit there too? Remember people don't know you so they don't know if you're crazy, sane, weird, or normal. So they use other clues to decide if you're someone that they want to talk to and get to know. People will look at your outfit, your affect, what you're doing, and your facial expression to make that decision. So, if you're at a bar in a 3 piece suit with a rbf and not talking or socializing with anyone...most people will avoid you and decide to talk the person who's appropriately dressed, who looks fun and inviting, and is talkative and engaging.

 

Some people convince themselves of how unique they are and how different they are as a defense mechanism. It's not that I'm unlikable and mean spirited, it's that my interests are so obscure and unique that I can hardly relate to anyone. Maybe consider if that applies to you. Believe it or not, you can change the way that people perceive you.

The most important thing you can do is to have an open mind and try ALL of the advice you receive. You can read old posts from this section of the forum and you'll see guy after guy in your exact same situation. The vast majority of them just whine and complain and absolutely refuse to try any of the advice they receive. Some of them have been posting for years and years without any improvement because they refuse to make any changes. Unless you want that to be you, have an open mind and give all of the advice you receive an honest try.

[Thelambofdeth]

57 minutes ago, preraph said:

You know what?  You are just having a hard time finding your niche.  I used to live in Oklahoma and I was a glam rocker.  Talk about alone.  I did finally meet two younger people who liked it.  But then I moved to Dallas and found my crowd and my niche. 

 

But yes, I know what it's like not liking all the same things everyone else does because I was always on the fringe too.  I don't let that get to me about stuff like movies.  I HATE super hero stuff!  I hate most mainstream stuff.  I can't even agree on movies with my best friend, who used to do some work on movies and she likes the work that goes into them.  She tried to talk to me about that latest Scocese film and I listened but at the end just told her, I hate Mob films.  I have to like the characters.  

 

So you won't find people who agree on everything you like with you, and if you're like me at all, you will have to compartmentalilze your friends and online friends to some extent and not expect to find a "one size fits all" one.  Like I love all that music, but I also am bigtime into crime and law enforcement topics.  So obviously, that's two different sets of friends.  

 

I love GNR's first album.  I have a photo of me sitting on a couch underneath them from back in the day.  I was working in that business in the business end.  Saw them getting off heroin too, but they did it mostly by taking handfuls of pills and drinking waaaay too much.  And have to admit, their writing was better on it.  

 

Keep trying to find your niche.  I had to move to find mine.  You'll be happier!

 

I'm sure that has much to do with it. I live in MD the one thing nearly every part of the state shares it its blandness. Even the supposed "underground" or "artistic" districts are generic shells. I visited Portland last year and it was night/day in terms of the people and atmosphere.

 

Well I get that. I understand my particular interests are "unique" and I'm not going to find one person who happens to relate to ALL of it. But christ, one aspect would be a nice start....

 

Appetite for Destruction I think was literally the first rock album I bought. I remember looking up bands, and watching a 80s rock documentary and I thought Axl Rose was so cool. Still think he might be my favorite vocalist of all times. His pipes might almost compensate for how much of a giant douchebag he seems to be. Almost...

40 minutes ago, Piddy said:

K.K. mentioned alcohol and you said when you drink your friends say you come across much better.   I'm an introvert and in my dating days (1970's) I didn't have the guts to ask girls to dance etc. at a club without having a few beers.  There's nothing wrong with loosening up with a couple drinks.

 

  Alcohol makes you less inhibited and less self conscious.  It will help you become more social and it sounds like it's just what you need.  It's very difficult to change ones personality.  You are what you are.  So have a few drinks and loosen up and become more confident and approaching women will not be as challenging for you. 

 

Confidence is the number one attraction for women.  Let's not over think this.  

 

Things is, I go to bars a lot and have a decent alcohol threshold. Slightly buzzed isn't even enough to get me to approach random people. I pretty much have to be totally drunk, and I detest being drunk.

 

Sure it is, but you can only fake so much confidence.

27 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I know in the UK, we like alcohol a bit more than many other countries, but I guess probably more than 75% of guys/girls would never have met anyone if they didn't get a bit of "Dutch courage" first.
Social anxiety is not uncommon. Alcohol oils the wheels...
It allows shy, introverted and socially inadequate people to meet other shy, introverted and socially inadequate people and they then can get on with the rest of their lives...

I'll just say Americans are quite fond of liquor as well lol. That said most people are bars already seems extroverted and confident enough. It's like you're already supposed to courageous before you go there. Its not like I ever really see women just there waiting to be approached. It always seems like I'm the only socially inept one there...

[K.K.]

I love this thread!!  Wow the things you learn about people. Just goes to show you can’t judge a book by its cover. Preraph why can’t I meet people like you in real life! I had you pictured as like a really smart, hip Julia Child’s. The skirt and accent and everything! Which was already great lol. Then you go and blow my mind talking about Guns and Roses and Megadeth. 67 years old. Wow! I bet you’ve had some really great times.  

 

Yep, Thelambofdeth you just have to find your “people”. Easier said than done. I’ve always been a lil different and I hate to tell you but it doesn’t get easier the older you get. I remember many times sitting in a room full of people that didn’t get me at all. How lonely that feeling is. I’ve only found a few people in my whole life that “got me” so I know it’s hard. I don’t think you should change who you are and I can tell you’re not about to do that anyway. That’s a good thing. Your people are out there somewhere. 

 

I do think it it would be nice though well.. call it an experiment .. to do like Elaine said and just go out one time looking entirely different. Entirely. Wear your hair wild. Throw on something casual. Take off the black nail polish, drink a few beers first and go see what happens! 

 

If I think about it, I probably would have never had any boyfriends or dates or even sex if I hadn’t have been drinking. I have horrible social anxiety and I could never go it without something to calm me down. Never. Now that sounds sad I know but it was only to get the hard stuff out of the way. The meeting. The kissing. The sex. After that I could be ok without drinking. Now usually after that if he became my boyfriend our nights usually consisted of drinking and sex anyway though but it was ok. Great even because it was fun as hell! I miss that s***. I rarely drink. It’s no fun anymore. I hate being hungover. But guess what. I also haven’t been out on a date in a million years. Why? Because ... anxiety. But I’m old and ok with it now. Less people to piss off and be pissed off by. Wow I spent a whole paragraph on that and talked all about myself. See? Like that one thread we had about making stuff about ourselves. Duck. I’m sorry man. 

 

Ok now what’s with the long nails and black nail polish. Are you in a band? Are you a goth left over from the 90’s? No shade man. I’m here to learn! I just don’t think I have ever seen any guy besides Tommy Lee wearing black nail polish. That’s a certain niche crowd. I think it probably scares people. BUT up there^ you were kind of offended (you said eh) by “conventional women.” Like if a conventional woman said you were hot it didn’t matter. Ok well you didn’t say that at the beginning that you were obviously looking for an unconventional woman. So... ok... who do you think is the hottest woman of your ‘type’ out there? I’m just curious. Because obviously you’re going to have to go where those kinds are, you know?

 

Also, you said you were not rude but maybe “condescending” but polite. How condescending are you? I mean dude.. 

 

This is has been so long winded I don’t even remember what I typed anymore. I better cut it off. Lol 

 

hey... when someone says lol do unconventional people look down on them and roll their eyes. I’ve always wanted to know!! 

[K.K.]

How do you do individual quotes without having to erase most of their post every time you quote to get to the part you want. I’m so not good at it. 

 

I just wanted to say that Appetite for Destruction was the soundtrack to some of the best days of my life. Music is everything. How it can transport you back in time with the press of a button. All of the memories rush back. Chills. 

 

I’m from the days of the hair bands. Cinderella, Motley Crue, Poison. Kix!! Never did much with Sabbath outside of Iron Man but Ozzy is my favorite of all time. I had every album he ever made. I don’t care if he’s senile or whatnot... I’m going to cry when he dies. And I don’t cry. I never got into Megadeth which is so strange I know, I missed the boat on them. I was listening to Metallica instead. 

 

I listen to all all kinds of music. That’s the weird part because for many years now my guilty pleasure has been rap music. Mostly older school s***. Like Lil Jon and Pastor Troy. Tech nine. I just love the beat and the bass. A lot of this new s*** like the mumble rappers I’m not as fond of. But I like hip hop I guess you call it. The slow stuff. Trey Songs. Omg. I also missed the boat on Tupac. Blasphemy I know but I was probably listening to emo. 

 

I mean that’s what I’m saying about not judging a book by its cover. Here I am people probably think I’m listening to Garth Brooks or something and here I am lil white woman I’m pulling up to the light bumpin my Rick Ross. 

[Thelambofdeth]

26 minutes ago, Yosemite said:

Try reading, How to win friends and influence people, by Dale Carnegie. It'll help you learn how to start conversations and be social. You can find it on Amazon and it has a lot of good advice.

Are you wearing 3 piece suits to the bar? Try business casual or jeans. It sounds like when you're at a bar, you wait for women to approach you. You shouldn't expect women to hit on you, 99% of women will expect you to make the first move and approach her. If you're just sitting at the bar with RBF expecting a woman to approach you, you'll be waiting a very long time...probably forever.

Referring to women as females is another reason you may have trouble getting dates. Most women don't appreciate that. You'll probably say that you only speak that way online and not irl, but there are women who post here who may have valuable advice for you who won't want to post because you use "female" instead of "women." Put your best foot forward everywhere.

Quit the porn, stop masturbating, stop reading incel websites and go to therapy for your social anxiety. A bunch of guys will probably rush in here to tell you that porn is harmless...but how many of them have porn addictions and are virgins at age 26? Maybe what works for them doesn't work for you. Incel websites are especially toxic. Women have to be very careful about the men they let into their lives so they are finely tuned to detect any hatred for women. Filling your mind with toxic incel garbage means that you'll probably inadvertently say or insinuate something that will set off alarm bells for a woman and make her think that you're misogynistic. Cut that out of your life and you'll have one less reason to be nervous when you speak to women.

Have you ever been to a football game or any other sporting event? Did you wear a three piece suit? Probably not, in the same way you shouldn't wear a 3 piece suit to a bar either. Dressing appropriately for the occasion indicates that you understand social rules and how to successfully interact with society. Being overdressed or underdressed sends a message about you that isn't flattering. If you were at a bar and saw a woman in a wedding dress, you would probably think she just got married. But what if you found out that she's never been married, she just thinks she looks good in wedding dresses, so she has a closet full of them and wears them all the time. Would you be eager to date her? Look forward to going to Starbucks on a Saturday morning with her in a wedding dress? That's what you look like being overdressed at a bar...people are going to be wondering, if we go to the beach is he going to wear a 3 piece suit? What if we go to Applebees, will he wear 3 piece suit there too? Remember people don't know you so they don't know if you're crazy, sane, weird, or normal. So they use other clues to decide if you're someone that they want to talk to and get to know. People will look at your outfit, your affect, what you're doing, and your facial expression to make that decision. So, if you're at a bar in a 3 piece suit with a rbf and not talking or socializing with anyone...most people will avoid you and decide to talk the person who's appropriately dressed, who looks fun and inviting, and is talkative and engaging.

 

Some people convince themselves of how unique they are and how different they are as a defense mechanism. It's not that I'm unlikable and mean spirited, it's that my interests are so obscure and unique that I can hardly relate to anyone. Maybe consider if that applies to you. Believe it or not, you can change the way that people perceive you.

The most important thing you can do is to have an open mind and try ALL of the advice you receive. You can read old posts from this section of the forum and you'll see guy after guy in your exact same situation. The vast majority of them just whine and complain and absolutely refuse to try any of the advice they receive. Some of them have been posting for years and years without any improvement because they refuse to make any changes. Unless you want that to be you, have an open mind and give all of the advice you receive an honest try.

I wear suits because I'm into fashion and I like the way I look in them. It honestly never occured to me that its such a big deal.

 

Idk. dude, I'm just telling you what others have told me. I've been told I'm too formal and like I...talk down to people, and dismissive. I'm always courteous, and cordial but i suppose its interpreted as patronizing because of my tone and manner. Little things I don't notice, apparently come off as the wrong way to some people. Of course this seems to also exclusively be a issue with females, rarely if ever, dudes. There was one instance in which this woman happened to be interested in me and she thought I was being dismissive. I was avoiding her because I thought she was into this guy at a party who was all over her. She noticed me the next time be both happened to be out and questioned why I was so distant. In my mind I was being respectful.

 

No, I don't expect women to just approach me. I understand that's not realistic and that even Adam Driver looking guys need to approach as well. Its expected as a man and all that. The thing is, women give hints and indicators of interest that they're susceptible to approach. I don't want to seem like a thirsty creep casting nets, so I look for signs of interests, but they never appear. THAT is my issue. I'm a awkward af, over six foot tall black guy, usually wearing all black. I don't expect to be approached. But the slightest sign that I should or can would be quite refreshing.

 

Wait, saying female is offensive now? What????

 

Erma, I'm not a virgin. I actually did quite well in grade school and college. Granted I haven't had a gf in almost two years, but I've had experience. The porn addiction came from having nothing...at all recently. First of all incels hating women is HUGE, frustrating stereotype. It's not somehow exclusive to that community. Also...(and quite importantly) NORMAL PEOPLE CAN HATE WOMEN TOO. Mysognists don't go around exclaiming it in the streets at passer-bys. Its not always blatantly obvious. There are tons of suave, good-looking, charming, social men who hate women. And often said women don't find our until after the fact. They conceal it. Tons of women let woman-haters into their circle all the time. The irony is the quiet ones who people perceive as being sexist, are often the ones denied a chance. While the 9/10 Chad with all the friends and women chasing him, is a lying, cheating abuser. Anyway, I don't hate women. I get slighty bitter at times when I see the type of people they gives chances to versus what I recieve, but I don't detest or blame my struggles on them.

 

I get what you're saying, dude...but you can't compare a suit to a wedding dress. Theres literally more than one occasion available for one versus the other, but I do see what you mean. If anything I thought the attire compensate for my demeanor, but reinforce it . But yes, I'm starting to realize its not a bet positive.

 

I...get what you're saying, but everyone had negative traits. Idk how else I can conceal them at this point. It's impossible for me to be any more polite or cordigal. I go out of my way not to be a space-invader or intrusive. I can only control so much of my perception.

 

And I'm deeply trying not to be one of those people who after years, makes no progress because of lack of effort. Deeply trying.

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, Thelambofdeth said:

I wear suits because I'm into fashion and I like the way I look in them.

 

This is not on subject, but the last time I wore a suit was for Jury Duty.  My thinking was the attorneys (doing the jury selection) wouldn't want me.  I was hoping they would think "Oh he is too professional or too intelligent" so we'll pass him over for some "regular Joe".

 

It backfired, not only was I picked for the Jury, but the other jurors made me foreman.  That was two weeks of my life I'll never get back.

 

After 1993, I've worn suits on very rare occasions.  Back in the 80's thru the early 90's, I wore one to work (everyday) for that particular job. (It was the dress-code), but since then I can count on one hand the number of times I've worn a suit.  Don't get me wrong I look good in my suits, but I wouldn't go to a bar/restaurant in one.

 

For an upscale restaurant, maybe a sport coat, but no tie.

[Yosemite]

I thought you were a virgin because you said that you wanted to see a prostitute because you couldn't even work up the nerve to go to a meetup alone. That's a pretty extreme reaction for someone who's not a virgin and has only been single for two years. If you were able to be social and do well in high school and college, what's changed? Find out what the source of that change is and you'll probably be able to get past whatever is causing you this social anxiety. Maybe your heart is still broken and you haven't healed from the break up.

Were you as goth back then as you are now? If so, go to those same clubs/bars where there are people who are into the same things you are. Try to connect with the people you knew back then, it'll help you deal with your social anxiety. Did you wear 3 piece suits back when you were socially active? If yes, carry on wearing suits. If not, consider that the changes you've made since you were last socially successful are the reasons that you're struggling now.

Would you wear a 3 piece suit to the beach or Applebees? I'm just curious.
 

Quote

Idk. dude, I'm just telling you what others have told me. I've been told I'm too formal and like I...talk down to people, and dismissive. I'm always courteous, and cordial but i suppose its interpreted as patronizing because of my tone and manner. Little things I don't notice, apparently come off as the wrong way to some people. Of course this seems to also exclusively be a issue with females, rarely if ever, dudes. There was one instance in which this woman happened to be interested in me and she thought I was being dismissive. I was avoiding her because I thought she was into this guy at a party who was all over her. She noticed me the next time be both happened to be out and questioned why I was so distant. In my mind I was being respectful

I got the impression from your other posts that you couldn't even speak to women in a social setting, most of my advice was coming from that viewpoint. Now it seems as though you can, but currently, you're not very good at it.

Little things like what? Calling women females? Tell us your exact conversations. What do you typically say that's misinterpreted as disdainful or dismissive? People here will help you rephrase your speech patterns so that others don't get the wrong impression of you.

Regarding incel websites, if you were trying to get into college, would you read sites dedicated to providing a space for people to whine about not being able to get into college or would you read the sites of people who were successful in getting admitted. Incels aren't successful, that's why they're there. You can fill your mind with that if you want...doesn't seem like the best decision to me.

Anyway, you seem to have your mind set about quite a few things. My advice is to figure out if you're not over your break up or are depressed about something else. Once you do that, you'll probably be able to fix the source of the problem and return to your successful social life.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Yosemite

[basil67]

The problem is that 'female' is an adjective, not a noun, so it sounds all wrong...and a bit disrespectful.   And for reasons that I cannot explain, it's always men who can't seem to get a woman who use 'females' as a collective noun, so the use of the term sends a little red flag up straight away.   The term 'women' is far more socially acceptable. 

 

I would go as far as saying that you're one of the luckier single people here asking for advice.  So many come here and we can't tell them what they are doing wrong.  They don't have mates who can tell them...or their mates aren't honest.   But with you, there are answers.   You've written many things that your mates have told you.   And you now know a new thing - three piece suits as daily wear are not helping your cause.   

 

The question is, are you willing to make the changes needed?  The thing which makes we humans special is that we can do self reflection and make changes if we so desire.  I mentioned earlier that I have done much the same.  I'm still me.  But a nicer me.   Can you still be you, but without the sarcasm and adversarial attitude?

[Thelambofdeth]

2 hours ago, K.K. said:

Yep, Thelambofdeth you just have to find your “people”. Easier said than done. I’ve always been a lil different and I hate to tell you but it doesn’t get easier the older you get. I remember many times sitting in a room full of people that didn’t get me at all. How lonely that feeling is. I’ve only found a few people in my whole life that “got me” so I know it’s hard. I don’t think you should change who you are and I can tell you’re not about to do that anyway. That’s a good thing. Your people are out there somewhere. 

 

I do think it it would be nice though well.. call it an experiment .. to do like Elaine said and just go out one time looking entirely different. Entirely. Wear your hair wild. Throw on something casual. Take off the black nail polish, drink a few beers first and go see what happens! 

 

If I think about it, I probably would have never had any boyfriends or dates or even sex if I hadn’t have been drinking. I have horrible social anxiety and I could never go it without something to calm me down. Never. Now that sounds sad I know but it was only to get the hard stuff out of the way. The meeting. The kissing. The sex. After that I could be ok without drinking. Now usually after that if he became my boyfriend our nights usually consisted of drinking and sex anyway though but it was ok. Great even because it was fun as hell! I miss that s***. I rarely drink. It’s no fun anymore. I hate being hungover. But guess what. I also haven’t been out on a date in a million years. Why? Because ... anxiety. But I’m old and ok with it now. Less people to piss off and be pissed off by. Wow I spent a whole paragraph on that and talked all about myself. See? Like that one thread we had about making stuff about ourselves. Duck. I’m sorry man. 

 

Ok now what’s with the long nails and black nail polish. Are you in a band? Are you a goth left over from the 90’s? No shade man. I’m here to learn! I just don’t think I have ever seen any guy besides Tommy Lee wearing black nail polish. That’s a certain niche crowd. I think it probably scares people. BUT up there^ you were kind of offended (you said eh) by “conventional women.” Like if a conventional woman said you were hot it didn’t matter. Ok well you didn’t say that at the beginning that you were obviously looking for an unconventional woman. So... ok... who do you think is the hottest woman of your ‘type’ out there? I’m just curious. Because obviously you’re going to have to go where those kinds are, you know?

 

Also, you said you were not rude but maybe “condescending” but polite. How condescending are you? I mean dude.. 

 

This is has been so long winded I don’t even remember what I typed anymore. I better cut it off. Lol 

 

hey... when someone says lol do unconventional people look down on them and roll their eyes. I’ve always wanted to know!! 

Yep, I can very much relate to this.

 

I mean I will sometimes wear and sweater and jeans. They're very stylized, but its dressing down for me. The hair though...idk, I think I'm too married to the ponytail. Nonetheless, I've drank a few beers or cocktails, but I can attest, unless drunk very little changes.

 

I get that and it make a great deal of sense, actually. But it's almost a catch 22 because since everyone is drinking I can't tell which women are introverted and would make more sense for me to approach. Which in turns just makes everyone there sans me extroverted, and me back to square one...

 

Coincidentally, painted nails aren't likely as jarring as one would expect since apparently Post Malone has made them cool again. I paint them black bc I'm puesdo-play guitar, I'm goth-ish, and I just think the black nails fit my motif.

I mean I still find conventional women attractive. I just assume them to be more shallow(Yes, I do realize the irony) and know I'm less likely to form an actual connection with them that goes anywhere because of how unorthodox I am. An example of my type? You mean like a famous woman?

 

I see it as polite. Idk how other people take it. I suppose my manners are up for interpretation lol.

 

I don't suppose so. "Lol" is so widespread there would just too much mass eye-rolling spread to the point it would likely cause

 contagian. Hell, even I use it 

.

 

 

2 hours ago, K.K. said:

I just wanted to say that Appetite for Destruction was the soundtrack to some of the best days of my life. Music is everything. How it can transport you back in time with the press of a button. All of the memories rush back. Chills. 

 

I’m from the days of the hair bands. Cinderella, Motley Crue, Poison. Kix!! Never did much with Sabbath outside of Iron Man but Ozzy is my favorite of all time. I had every album he ever made. I don’t care if he’s senile or whatnot... I’m going to cry when he dies. And I don’t cry. I never got into Megadeth which is so strange I know, I missed the boat on them. I was listening to Metallica instead. 

 

I listen to all all kinds of music. That’s the weird part because for many years now my guilty pleasure has been rap music. Mostly older school s***. Like Lil Jon and Pastor Troy. Tech nine. I just love the beat and the bass. A lot of this new s*** like the mumble rappers I’m not as fond of. But I like hip hop I guess you call it. The slow stuff. Trey Songs. Omg. I also missed the boat on Tupac. Blasphemy I know but I was probably listening to emo. 

 

I mean that’s what I’m saying about not judging a book by its cover. Here I am people probably think I’m listening to Garth Brooks or something and here I am lil white woman I’m pulling up to the light bumpin my Rick Ross. 

 

Coincidentally Ozzy just did a song with Post Malone. So there's that. And to think I used to think so highly of Ozzy...And I think for most people with Metallica/Megadeth you almost had to choose a side. Lucikly, I discovered both after their prime so I just opted for both. Fade To Black is still one of my favorite songs ever. The first Unforgiven as well.(Also Cinderella's Nobody's Fool, but that's a secret...:/)

 

Eminem's "Relapse" was the last rap album I've ever listened to. He was my favorite rapper, that album sucked and the climate of rap was changing too much so I just gave up. In hindsight it was a good choice because it was a few years before trap/mumble rap and that stuff makes we want to take a shot of bleach.

 

And here I am black dude listening to Italian Death Metal. It takes all kinds, I suppose.

[Yosemite]

I've been told I'm too formal and like I...talk down to people, and dismissive. I'm always courteous, and cordial but i suppose its interpreted as patronizing because of my tone and manner. Little things I don't notice, apparently come off as the wrong way to some people. Of course this seems to also exclusively be a issue with females, rarely if ever, dudes. There was one instance in which this woman happened to be interested in me and she thought I was being dismissive

Can you see that these incel websites are already having a negative effect on you? Their thoughts and viewpoints are getting into your mind, their phrases and word choices are probably peppered in your speech and it's turning people away from you. You read these things and they sound normal to you because you read it regularly...to everyone else these ideas are crazy and toxic. When you speak to people, what you consider insignificant and normal sounds crazy and dangerous to them. It could be as small as calling someone a Stacy or a Chad or saying something about 80/20 theory, or hypergamy, or any other thing that only someone who reads incel sites would say. That's going to cause alarm bells to go off in any normal, sane woman. And it happened to you here in the above quote. You can't expect to remain a well adjusted, decent human being if you fill you mind with garbage. It will eventually catch up with you...kind of seems like it already has.

I thought you were a virgin because you said that you wanted to see a prostitute because you couldn't even work up the nerve to go to a meetup alone. That's a pretty extreme reaction for someone who's not a virgin and has only been single for two years.

Quoting myself to say that reading incel sites probably is a huge factor in your extremely quick progression to thinking about going to sex workers after less than 2 years of being single. Add on the fact that you used to have a normal social life and now your social skills have evaporated and you have extreme social anxiety...seems pretty clear that you're not as immune to the toxicity on those incel sites as you think. Like I said, it's your life and your choice, but it really seems like you can't see the forest for the trees here.

My suggestion would be to quit porn and incel sites for at least 2 months. During that time, try to talk to new people and reconnect with the friends you lost touch with. Pay attention to what you allow to enter into your mind. Think, "is what I'm reading/watching right now going to bring me closer to my goal or take me further away from it?" Make yourself go to Meetups and stop wearing the suits. Exercise, eat healthy, and get plenty of sleep. See if you're more successful and if your anxiety hasn't decreased. See if your social skills come back and you reconnect with old friends. I'd bet a million bucks that it works, if it doesn't, it's time to see a therapist.

Good luck.