I think my girlfriend may be breaking up with me? I haven't heard from her in days.

[healing light]

On 12/9/2019 at 6:36 AM, d0nnivain said:

If you had expressed these travel concerns, sleeping arrangements & the mom's religious views with your GF you probably could have worked out a compromise but to unilaterally ditch her without giving her any input that was a slap in the face.  You essentially told her that you don't care about her. 

 

I agree with this.

 

I understand where you're coming from about the drive, but ideally you could have had a chat with her in the process of negotiating Christmas that included staying at a motel, hotel, or AirBnb, etc. if sleeping arrangements were a concern and you didn't want to drive back that night. Obviously you have the money for a 3 day trip to NYC, why couldn't those resources have been allocated towards finding a compromise that would have addressed your concerns?

 

If I were you, I would reach out and see if you could still come to this compromise assuming that you value the relationship enough to not want to risk her breaking up with you.

 

PS. I only read the first page of this thread--didn't realize there were several more after that, so if my answer is redundant, apologies.

Edited December 13, 2019 by healing light

[K.K.]

Wonder how all this is going to turn out.  

 

Where’s a good popcorn eating emoji when you need one. 

[fromheart]

20 minutes ago, Ambereyes said:

1. You are looking for the wrong type of women.

2. Making sacrifices for others, doesnt mean one needs to drop his own life. Working on oneself, doesnt mean he should put every one else second and behind and cant make compromises. Self-improvement and virtues are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary, I doubt anyone with no virtues can achieve much at all in his life.

3. Im astonished how you dont see how selfish your words sound. Would you want to be friends with someone you just described? Do you find that kind of man attractive? Is that the kind of person you want to be?

 

With respect, your answer and another posters answer doesn't make sense.

You only get emotional stability with self work.  Is there any other method?  No.  A man must definitely put his purpose first.  How can you be attractive without your health and financial stability?  You can't look after or be there for other people, if you cant be there for yourself can you. 

I take away one of the main weapons of entitled, spoiled little princesses.  The proverbial doghouse.  The cold shoulder.  The unwillingness to communicate like an adult, to except an apology and move on.  Because to take this abuse means you lack self worth and self love.  She gets a few minutes to act like an adult, and then any self respecting man is out of the door.  Because she'll never, ever change.

And if you find that threatening, its because you have a controlling nature.  

As for the presumption that such a man must therefore be unattractive, quite the contrary.  Taking care of yourself and respecting your own boundaries means that you can be there for other people a lot more.  Should they prove themselves worthy of such an investment that is.

[healing light]

Okay, so I've caught up with the whole thread now. 

 

No, I don't think her letter was manipulative. I'm a bit shocked that was your apparent first reaction to it. You're actually lucky in that she wrote out her entire thought process about the relationship and why she was done. 

 

I think telling her and showing her that you love her is the utmost importance if you want a snowball's chance in hell of getting her back.

 

From her letter, it sounds like you have never invested as much in the relationship as her and that you've gone silent/been conflict avoidant when situations arise rather than stepping up to fix problems or give her the reassurance that she needs.

 

She had gone behind the scenes and made extravagant wonderful plans in a gift to you, yet you just informed her as an aside that you were blowing the plans and anything she may have attached to them to go on a rendezvous with your friends. D0nnivain absolutely hit the nail on the head with the dynamics on this thread; it would be worth your time to revisit her posts.

 

It's time to grovel and beg for a second chance by making things right if you love her enough to reconcile.

[Ambereyes]

How does "taking care of yourself" mean 'give people only 3 minutes to respond" ?

 

How does "self work" mean you cant do things for others, like drive 2 hours for your loved ones, but "women should fly around the world to see me"?

 

Why does doing things for others mean you will lose health, finance, and you cant be there for yourself?

 

Since when  doing things for others=not taking care of yourself and not respecting your own boundaries?

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Ambereyes

[smackie9]

6 hours ago, fly_five said:

I’m the one who brought up marriage and kids actually.

Yes I know BUT it's just talk for now but she's seeing it as a promise, and along with that, commitment to spending time/meeting her family. This is going a little too fast for you. You are not acting like you are all in now are you?

[Ruby Slippers]

20 hours ago, fromheart said:

With respect, cooking and cleaning is something we are all doing for ourselves in this day and age.

And surely in HER position you'd offer him an alternative to sleep?  Of share the evening with him?  She did not and I'm sure that if you were in his position you'd be feeling the same way.

Well, many young women find a man who is working on himself first and foremost and without compromise attractive.  A man who drops his whole life, or doesn't have a life to drop, to travel across the world is asking for a whole load of s~~t.

Yes, and driving is something we all do, too. He needs to drive to the location where her family is, and I'm sure she would have made parallel effort at the location to make it nice for him and everyone.

 

I would try to figure out a workable situation, of course, but she couldn't do that when he simply canceled their plan and made another one. Making a small sacrifice for one day isn't dropping his whole life. It's a drop in the bucket of what real men do for their women and families.

 

My lord, our ancestor men risked life and limb in battle to protect their families, and these days some people can't even make the trifling effort to drive a few hours.

Edited December 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed inappropriate comment.

[Timshel]

On 12/11/2019 at 2:18 PM, fly_five said:

I do love her. I was the one who brought up marriage and kids. I was the one thinking of moving in together before her. Last week I made a post and tagged her in it that said love is just a word but she brings it definition. I wanted to her to see it when she landed but it had timed out before she saw it.

I’m 29. She’s my first girlfriend. First person to ever meet my parents. First actual relationship.

 

It's your first relationship, you're on a learning curve.  Your noncommittal, wishy washy, this would be more fun, change of plans isn't awful in that it's where you are right now.  Your ex gf is in a different place; ready to settle down and start a family together.  Note: do not start a family with anyone until driving to the moon and back isn't overwhelming 

Anyway, let her go and date around.  Actions are most important in a relationship and yours in this situation reveal that you aren't all in...and that's ok.  Only don't play around with this, just move along.

[fromheart]

43 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Yes, and driving is something we all do, too. He needs to drive to the location where her family is, and I'm sure she would have made parallel effort at the location to make it nice for him and everyone.

 

I would try to figure out a workable situation, of course, but she couldn't do that when he simply canceled their plan and made another one. Making a small sacrifice for one day isn't dropping his whole life. It's a drop in the bucket of what real men do for their women and families.

 

My lord, our ancestor men risked life and limb in battle to protect their families, and you jokers these days can't even make the trifling effort to drive a few hours. Way to preserve the legacy that stronger men before you left. No wonder the Western birth rate is falling.

So your conclusion is a woman can't answer a text promptly because she's busy, but a man must drive 4 hours on his holiday to show love.

As for the implication that I am weak, I train 5 days per week and am an accomplished martial artist.  Very capable of defending myself, and my loved ones.  I value self work as a path to love and emotional security, not driving.  

If you value the old days so much, then you must value traditional roles.  No one really does, as the racial, sexual inequality of times gone by is incompatible with modern society.  Men don't do the driving while women wash the dishes anymore.  Both are capable.  Driving doesn't prove love as far as I'm concerned.  Self work and intense self discipline, with self respect are what makes a man attractive... putting his purpose first.  This is a lot more demanding and challenging, than driving a car.   

It also makes a man who can't be controlled by his partner.  I would respectfully suggest that this is what you are challenged by.  Yours is a very common response. 

 

[Tamfana]

14 hours ago, healing light said:

From her letter, it sounds like you have never invested as much in the relationship as her and that you've gone silent/been conflict avoidant when situations arise rather than stepping up to fix problems or give her the reassurance that she needs.

 

Yeah, I saw that too, that this was not the first incident in which she felt she made effort and you didn't, OP.  

 

So maybe think back to all of the incidents, examine what the common threads are and figure out where to make improvements- IF you want and are ready for a lifetime committed relationship.  

Edited December 13, 2019 by Tamfana

[preraph]

16 hours ago, fly_five said:

I’m the one who brought up marriage and kids actually.

Maybe, but you don't know what it means.  You seem oblivious that all those things comes with enormous responsibility and obligations.  I think you did that thinking what it means in your own head, which is very different than what a mature adult who actually understood what it means would envision.  Once you have kids, you have to help take care of them, not bail out and go off with your friends leaving her stuck.  It wouldn't have worked out anyway if you had gotten married or pregnant.  This was doomed to failure because you're not mature enough to even understand what a real relationship and family means.  And I guess that's okay, but use this time to really absorb what married folks do in real life.  It's not about reliable sex and someone cooking dinner for you.  It's much busier than that. 

[ThorntonMelon]

So why post all this?

 

Im confused why you didn't take the energy it took to post the message and use it to try and fix things with her? I get it, you think she overreacted, and is being unreasonable and that's fine, but she then gets to decide she doesn't want to play by your rules. 

 

Think about this a different way - the person you love is probably as important a thing in your life as just about anything. You made her completely question your commitment to her. She is going through an emotional car crash. You seem to have little remorse for the pain she's feeling so why not just move on to the next girl?

[preraph]

11 minutes ago, fromheart said:

Yours is a very common response. 

 

 

It's a common response because it's correct.  You're the fringe element here, the guy way out on the edge where no one lives trying to justify your own shortcomings by telling the rest of the world you're right and the rest of the world is wrong.  When that happens, it's YOU.

[Ruby Slippers]

30 minutes ago, fromheart said:

So your conclusion is a woman can't answer a text promptly because she's busy, but a man must drive 4 hours on his holiday to show love.

What does a text message have to do with anything? The woman stopped responding to him because he failed, proved he's a lost cause for anything meaningful.

 

If he didn't want to drive 4 hours on Christmas, he shouldn't have agreed to the plan. If he changed his mind later, he should have discussed an alternate plan with her, not irresponsibly and carelessly bailed on the plan they made, leaving her embarrassed and forced to explain to her family how this guy had bailed like a scared little boy.

[preraph]

He got what he considered to be a better offer and bailed.  He is just clueless about what mature relationships entail.  He was just enjoying the surface stuff of a relationship.  It's fine if he's not ready there yet if he's still young, but no point in pretending to be headed toward marriage and commitment if that's the case. 

[Super Phantom]

You decided so stick by it. I understand you want to spend Christmas but not wanting to travel to and from. Plus possibly no christmas sex and have to drive. Yeah you made a wise decision

[schlumpy]

4 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

If he didn't want to drive 4 hours on Christmas, he shouldn't have agreed to the plan. If he changed his mind later, he should have discussed an alternate plan with her, not irresponsibly and carelessly bailed on the plan they made, leaving her embarrassed and forced to explain to her family how this guy had bailed like a scared little boy.

I strongly agree. If she has a single ounce of self-respect she has to walk. Either that or be his bobo for as long as they are together. 

[fromheart]

17 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

What does a text message have to do with anything? The woman stopped responding to him because he failed, proved he's a lost cause for anything meaningful.

 

If he didn't want to drive 4 hours on Christmas, he shouldn't have agreed to the plan. If he changed his mind later, he should have discussed an alternate plan with her, not irresponsibly and carelessly bailed on the plan they made, leaving her embarrassed and forced to explain to her family how this guy had bailed like a scared little boy.

He wasn't scared, he just didn't want to drive 4 hours on Christmas day. This is going around in circles, with you refusing to listen to another side. 

Once again, if she wished to take a step forward in the relationship they could had driven together to their destination and left together.  That's how couples generally do it. 

People are allowed to have a period of retrospection and change their minds if something doesn't feel right, though I have said he should also reflect on his communication.

Maybe it was another poster who implied, a woman may be too busy to answer promptly.  That has appeared on this forum a few times.

To which I say, 'a woman may be too busy to answer, but a man must drive 4 hours to prove his worth,' is a concept which is completely nonsense.  She can drive to me, and pay for dinner when she gets here.

Being a nice guy doesn't work.  We have a generation of angry women to thank for that.  

[d0nnivain]

2 hours ago, fromheart said:

He wasn't scared, he just didn't want to drive 4 hours on Christmas day. This is going around in circles, with you refusing to listen to another side. 

Once again, if she wished to take a step forward in the relationship they could had driven together to their destination and left together.  That's how couples generally do it. 

People are allowed to have a period of retrospection and change their minds if something doesn't feel right, though I have said he should also reflect on his communication.

 

 * * * 

Being a nice guy doesn't work.  

 

 

Being a polite thoughtful partner (nice guy) always works.  Being a doormat (what people mistakenly think a nice guy is)  is a problem. 

 

You finally got my point.  This problem developed & the break up resulted because of how he behaved after he changed his mind.   Changing his mind was a pretty crappy thing to do IMO because she was counting on him.  This was Christmas & her family not some ordinary Wednesday.   Even if he decided he didn't like the deal he struck & he wanted to drive down together or reorganize the sleeping arrangements in a relationship you discuss those changes.  You do not just unliterally decided  you are not coming & spring that on somebody.  The fact that he didn't understand why she was so upset & claimed she was overreacting highlights how inconsiderate he was being which lead to her tirade.  

 

To put this more in your parlance & if he acted like a man -- talking to her about his concerns -- this probably would have had a happier ending or at least would not have resulted in a break up.   

[elaine567]

We have no idea where this woman lives in relation to the OP or her parents, she may be 2 hours in the opposite direction from her parents for all we know...
It would then be ludicrous for her to drive 4 hours to pick up the bf, drive him for 2 hours to the parents, then ferry the bf home for 2 hours, then drive the four hours home...

[fromheart]

4 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

 

 

Being a polite thoughtful partner (nice guy) always works.  Being a doormat (what people mistakenly think a nice guy is)  is a problem. 

 

You finally got my point.  This problem developed & the break up resulted because of how he behaved after he changed his mind.   Changing his mind was a pretty crappy thing to do IMO because she was counting on him.  This was Christmas & her family not some ordinary Wednesday.   Even if he decided he didn't like the deal he struck & he wanted to drive down together or reorganize the sleeping arrangements in a relationship you discuss those changes.  You do not just unliterally decided  you are not coming & spring that on somebody.  The fact that he didn't understand why she was so upset & claimed she was overreacting highlights how inconsiderate he was being which lead to her tirade.  

 

To put this more in your parlance & if he acted like a man -- talking to her about his concerns -- this probably would have had a happier ending or at least would not have resulted in a break up.   

I made my point right at the beginning, he does need to work on his communication.

You chose to react against other things you disagree with.

Whats your definition of a doormat?  Waiting by the phone whilst being given the cold shoulder is being a doormat as far as I'm concerned. 

Both people will F' up at some point.  Give an apology if necessary and if she can't accept that promptly, its not meant to be.  Best to end things.  So, I give a few minutes after attempting to patch things up.  If she needs to give the cold shoulder, doghouse treatment, I'd rather move on than accept a life of stress and eventual ill health.  And I strongly advise men to do the same.   

[fly_five]

 

My gf and I were supposed to be moving in with each other next month. However, that all changed today. We both have dogs and they hate each other. They fight multiple times a day. And if we’re being honest here I don’t like her dog. I even told her today, “that thing sucks”. Well they got in another fight today while I was gone and I received a text from my gf saying my dog bit her while trying to break up the fight. I told her my dog has never done that so I don’t believe her. She sent me the picture and still told her that she was lying oh my dog. She snapped and said don’t ever disrespect her again by calling her a liar. She then suggested we get a dog trainer but like I said I just don’t like her dog. I told her that her dog is not allowed to live at my house (she was supposed to live with me) and to have her dog stay with her parents. All in all she told me her dog wasn’t going anywhere, called me selfish, and broke up with me. 

1. I feel like this is the dumbest reason to break up with someone-just send the dog to your parents it’s not a big deal. 
2. If she really cared about me she wouldn’t have dumped me for her dog. 

Like I said dumb.

[Ambereyes]

1. Yes you are selfish for not even consider a dog trainer and give both her and her dog a chance. 

2. If you really cared about her, you wouldnt have forced her to choose you.

3. You feel so entitled that she has to choose you, but you can choose your dog. 

I think she did the right thing. You acted terribly and you dont even know it. 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Ambereyes

[ThorntonMelon]

A lot of women would have broken up with you for that reason. 

Whether it's dumb or not..who knows. I'd say given the maturity levels being shared, good thing you're not moving in with anyone for awhile. 

[elaine567]

You are the same guy who after arranging to go spend Xmas with her parents you cancelled last minute to go to NYC with your friend, now you want her to give up her dog...
You are not mature enough to have a gf, never mind live with her...
Take a long hard look at yourself...