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Question for OW here!


JimmyNorth

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To my way of thinking this is just a case of you being a cheater and you cheated with a cheater. I know lots of people think it's not possible for your gf to have cheated on you since you were actively married but I disagree. If you didn't have an open relationship where you agreed to share her with other men and she let you believe that she was exclusive to you then she cheated. Sure she was sharing you with your wife but she knew that and by being the OW for 3yrs she consented to that. If she didn't like sharing you with your wife she could have walked away at anytime. It was her choice to be the chick on the side for 3yrs. You didn't know that you were sharing her with other men and you had no idea that it was going on. You have learned that she can look you in the eye and declare her undying love all while casually boinking some guy on the side without you having a clue. You have good reason to be upset and not trust her. However you are also a hypocrite and have no moral high ground to stand on. You are both dishonest and untrustworthy. 

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spiritedaway2003
13 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

I truly always wanted to be with her and I just needed a kick in the butt to get me out of the rut I was stuck in. 

I like how frank you are here, even though every one is kicking you from behind and telling you to get a move on from this hangup.  It sounded like you have recognized it as irrational too.

It sounds like you knew your marriage was over for a while.  I think there will always be the question of, "If you know the marriage was over, why didn't you do the 'right' thing and end the marriage first?   Would you have been comfortable just being yourself for a while too?  

And if the AP couldn't promise you to the there at the end, would you have continued to stay stuck "in the rut", as you call it? 

A bit off-track.  Not being judgemental, but I'm genuinely curious.

 

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3 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

 I think there will always be the question of, "If you know the marriage was over, why didn't you do the 'right' thing and end the marriage first?   

He already answered that one

On 12/9/2019 at 1:02 PM, JimmyNorth said:

I was just comfortable before on not making any moves and living a double life.

 

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RecentChange
On 12/10/2019 at 1:40 PM, JimmyNorth said:

Her main complaints are she was worried about my commitment, didn’t feel desired, and hated being a secret. 

Why were you letter her feel like she wasn't desired? After all - you should know how fatal that can be to a relationship, it's the excuse you used for cheating on your wife.

And she used the same excuse to cheat on you - oh the irony!

A few tips from someone who has been on both sides of this coin.

Affairs are forbidden - which lends an extra level of adrenaline and excitement to everything. Jacks stuff up to a level that is near impossible to duplicate in a stable long term relationship - so understand this all started with some spikes of feel good hormones that just can't be recreated. 

Attention - she's young and hot and female - and well, probably has gotten used to a lot of male attention. You are going to have to really step up in order to keep her eyes on you and forsake all others. You already know that she isn't monogamously hard wired.

You already know that she can have meaningless sex in order to get those excitement and attention buttons pushed - all while still proclaiming to love you. You know she can lie straight to your face. (How did you find out about the cheating anyway? How do you know it's the only instance?)

This one is going to need a LOT of your attention in order for it to be enough for her. For your stable regular ol' relationship to be satisfactory in the light of the excitement cheating can bring. 

She's still younger than you, and she is still hot - you are going to have competition period, plus you come with more baggage than she does. You will have your work cut out for you to keep her satisfied and loyal. 

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1 hour ago, RecentChange said:

Why were you letter her feel like she wasn't desired? After all - you should know how fatal that can be to a relationship, it's the excuse you used for cheating on your wife.

And she used the same excuse to cheat on you - oh the irony!

A few tips from someone who has been on both sides of this coin.

Affairs are forbidden - which lends an extra level of adrenaline and excitement to everything. Jacks stuff up to a level that is near impossible to duplicate in a stable long term relationship - so understand this all started with some spikes of feel good hormones that just can't be recreated. 

Attention - she's young and hot and female - and well, probably has gotten used to a lot of male attention. You are going to have to really step up in order to keep her eyes on you and forsake all others. You already know that she isn't monogamously hard wired.

You already know that she can have meaningless sex in order to get those excitement and attention buttons pushed - all while still proclaiming to love you. You know she can lie straight to your face. (How did you find out about the cheating anyway? How do you know it's the only instance?)

This one is going to need a LOT of your attention in order for it to be enough for her. For your stable regular ol' relationship to be satisfactory in the light of the excitement cheating can bring. 

She's still younger than you, and she is still hot - you are going to have competition period, plus you come with more baggage than she does. You will have your work cut out for you to keep her satisfied and loyal. 

Ehhhh....... she stayed loyal for 3+ years. I kept dragging it along while promising we would be together. 

I know plenty of women that wouldnt have lasted even 6 months or a year. 

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mark clemson

Perhaps, but if you want to make this work, don't let hubris be your downfall. Day to day living together is NOT like an affair. She may be thrilled at first, but then it drags on. She won't have a wedding ring on her to keep her with you either (not that that necessarily always works anyhow, as we all know). If the advice is to keep up your game, I think it's good advice in your situation.

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9 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Perhaps, but if you want to make this work, don't let hubris be your downfall. Day to day living together is NOT like an affair. She may be thrilled at first, but then it drags on. She won't have a wedding ring on her to keep her with you either (not that that necessarily always works anyhow, as we all know). If the advice is to keep up your game, I think it's good advice in your situation.

Absolutely! However, she is definitely inquiring about getting married and traveling together. 

I have a complete understanding of what true remorse looks like and her actions have shown this. ALTHOUGH, I have to say that “technically” she doesn’t have anything to be remorseful of due to me being a MM man and treating her as a mistress that I thought would last forever.

As others have posted here, I am a complete hypocrite to even be complaining about exclusivity when I set the crap standard for the first 3+ years anyways!!!

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9 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Day to day living together is NOT like an affair.

It has been, for us. But then As are all different. Some people thrive on secrecy, Adrenalin, etc. We didn’t. And OP’s description of his OW suggests she didn’t, either. 

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RecentChange
19 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

Ehhhh....... she stayed loyal for 3+ years. I kept dragging it along while promising we would be together. 

I know plenty of women that wouldnt have lasted even 6 months or a year. 

Stayed loyal for 3 years that you know of.

How again was the 3 month affair on her part discovered? Did you know something was amiss from day one of her affair or was she good at covering it up and saying "I love you" while having exciting "new relationship energy" sex with someone else?

Again.... I have cheated, and it's the perspective I am coming from as a woman who cheated at her age.  

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RecentChange
19 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

 

Double post

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6 hours ago, RecentChange said:

Stayed loyal for 3 years that you know of.

How again was the 3 month affair on her part discovered? Did you know something was amiss from day one of her affair or was she good at covering it up and saying "I love you" while having exciting "new relationship energy" sex with someone else?

Again.... I have cheated, and it's the perspective I am coming from as a woman who cheated at her age.  

I noticed a “disconnect” during those 3 months. I found out a couple of months after she stopped seeing the guy.

She had made comments during the past 3 years about how I’m not around, and has made hints that she is lonely. She never came straight out and gave an ultimatum, but if I had paid attention I would have seen it coming. 

She hated the secrecy, and I eventually hated the double life I was living. The moment I committed, my OW was relieved and happy to finally become someone significant in my life.  

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My advice to MM’s out there who really do love the OW but are stuck on making a move...IF you are truly done with your marriage and your OW is your exit and see a future, then don’t sit for too long, because the OW may become a Wayward OW and go explore other options that fill her needs. We are all human and in the end, a MM that is being selfish will in turn get that back in return EVENTUALLY!!

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Basically I am just jealous, as a man, that another man had her. It’s super hypocritical, but it’s just my stubborn primitive thinking. She’s totally digging on me super hard. And she is so happy I’m living at her place now. 

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11 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

She never came straight out and gave an ultimatum

If she had, what would you have done? 

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2 hours ago, Prudence V said:

If she had, what would you have done? 

I’ve brought this up recently with her. I told her that if she had actually gave an ultimatum that I would have made a move to commit fully.

She mentioned that she never gave an ultimatum because she felt she shouldn’t have had to. She wanted me to WANT to commit, and not by force. 

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11 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

My advice to MM’s out there who really do love the OW but are stuck on making a move...IF you are truly done with your marriage and your OW is your exit and see a future, then don’t sit for too long, because the OW may become a Wayward OW and go explore other options that fill her needs. We are all human and in the end, a MM that is being selfish will in turn get that back in return EVENTUALLY!!

Um, right. What's your excuse going to be the next time she pulls this? She didn't cheat on you because of you. She cheated because of her.
 

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spiritedaway2003
3 hours ago, pepperbird said:

Um, right. What's your excuse going to be the next time she pulls this? She didn't cheat on you because of you. She cheated because of her.
 

I would say she strayed because of her own needs, but she didn't cheat on the OP.  She was not in a committed relationship with him. 

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2 hours ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

I would say she strayed because of her own needs, but she didn't cheat on the OP.  She was not in a committed relationship with him. 

This is true. It was not a committed relationship. Most people here, if felt they were being strung along and not in any formal relationship, would probably end up dating someone else.

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Many women here would not have got into an affair with you in the first place, nor would they feel the need to cheat on any one.
If they felt there was a lack of commitment they would end it and find someone else
Committed or not she shared your bed, told you she loved you whilst sleeping with another man...

I get it though, you are stuck with her and if you can  do the mental gymnastics to make this OK then you will.

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2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Many women here would not have got into an affair with you in the first place, nor would they feel the need to cheat on any one.
If they felt there was a lack of commitment they would end it and find someone else
Committed or not she shared your bed, told you she loved you whilst sleeping with another man...

I get it though, you are stuck with her and if you can  do the mental gymnastics to make this OK then you will.

But here is the thing. I approached my AP in the beginning and told her that I was already leaving my wife and wanted to start something real with AP. At that point OW was thinking that we would be in a committed relationship much earlier than it took.

I 1000% believe that, from the beginning, she wanted an “all in” R, but my lagging for 3+ years just messed with her mind as to if I was EVER going to be with her.

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Many OWs are not just hanging on in there for no reason, they put up with all the B*llSh^t as they hope the prize is worth it.
The prize being that they get to have a real relationship with the MM, that he leaves his wife and there is a happy ever after. 
They see themselves as Mrs MM one day.
Many MM feed their OWs the happy ever after story as it gets them what they want.
You may have said you were leaving early doors, but yourself said you liked the comfort of the two women, many men do.
No boats rocked...

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23 hours ago, elaine567 said:

The prize being that they get to have a real relationship with the MM, that he leaves his wife and there is a happy ever after

An EMR is a real relationship, as real as any. Too many girlchildren are raised with fairy tale ideas about marriage. Marriage is not a prize. 
 

The real prize, in our case, was that we were both able to resolve our circumstances so that we could be together, and that we choose to be together each day, as part of many other things that enrich our lives, like work we both enjoy, friendships we treasure, family we are close to, and a home life that feeds our souls. But neither of us consider our pre-M relationship to have been any less real. It’s all the same R, even though it’s had different labels. 
 

OP and his OW being free to pursue a FTR matters, but it doesn’t make the R they had before any less real. 

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On 1/7/2020 at 11:04 PM, JimmyNorth said:

 

As others have posted here, I am a complete hypocrite to even be complaining about exclusivity when I set the crap standard for the first 3+ years anyways!!!

I really appreciate your honesty in this thread and the ability to face this head on when you're getting your butt kicked around a bit. Sometimes you have to have thick skin around here but the growth from communicating with others here is palpable. Haha. Some completely lack the self awareness entirely and it's clear you would rather be happy than be right. 

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JimmyNorth,

When we get married nobody can see the future or predict the outcome.. we are not in a fairytale romance so real life marriage has ups & downs..

The more we live together as husband @ wife our flaws becomes transparent each day. Nobody is perfect this goes for both spouses.

However, i believed the good deeds overpower the bad ones. You made a vow to stay together tru thick or thin.

If I am in your situation i will drop my AP asap @ go home to my wife. I will ask for her forgiveness @ do whatever i can to start over..

Your wife didn’t cheat on you; she’s probably pre occupied with the kids or household chores, work to help you make ends. ( my hint ).

Have you look in the mirror & ask yourself if your a good husband pre-affair ?? Your wife has her faults but so are you ?

Thats why Husband & Wife principle “ 2 heads better than one “.. they share responsibilities, ease the pain, & communicate..

Its not too late.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 1/9/2020 at 2:12 AM, JimmyNorth said:

My advice to MM’s out there who really do love the OW but are stuck on making a move...IF you are truly done with your marriage and your OW is your exit and see a future, then don’t sit for too long, because the OW may become a Wayward OW and go explore other options that fill her needs. We are all human and in the end, a MM that is being selfish will in turn get that back in return EVENTUALLY!!

hmmm...

this is akin to "I only cheated because the OW/OM made me". You are making yourself responsible her choices.

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