Relationship is making me lose sense of judgement- need impartial advice

[Poppy93]

My boyfriend [25M] and I [25F] have been together for 3 years and live together. 

 

Over the past year especially, he has become more emotionally disconnected from me. For example, he won’t offer affection, be vulnerable with his feelings or initiate any difficult conversations. I have nicely told him that these things would make me feel more emotionally connected to him many times.

 

He usually responds by saying he feels attacked, that I am the one who is withdrawn and that he can’t be emotionally connected with somebody who is not physically intimate with him. 

 

From my point of view, he is not trying to connect with me. For example, last weekend I proposed the idea to go to the Christmas markets as a bonding activity to try and get things back on track. He was completely disinterested, staying in corners on his phone and I got upset. He said it was way too busy and couldn’t understand why I was upset because he agreed to come and told me to take my time shopping and ‘it’s never enough’. To me, it wasn’t about shopping, it was about bonding with him which I tried to explain. 

 

I agree with him that I do become withdrawn after repeatedly feeling i’m not getting my needs met, alongside the pressure that I need to be having sex with him as he makes out I’m rejecting him. In reality it’s due to not feeling attracted to him because I do not feel emotionally safe with him when I open up with my feelings. This point goes into our argument yesterday which has led to me seriously rethinking the relationship. 

 

We had gone food shopping and taking his dog for a walk. He put the food shopping in the boot with the dog which was clambered all over. When I opened the boot to get the shopping out, his dog pushed to get out despite me pushing him back and I dropped a carton of eggs. I was frustrated that I’d have to clean it up and go back out and get some now. My boyfriend responded by saying ‘don’t worry about it, it’s not the end of the world!’ and ‘are you going to clean that up?’ which amplified my frustration as it was easy for him to say when he didn’t have to deal with it. If it was my dog, I’d feel obliged to replace the eggs but from his point of view, he doesn’t control the dog and I should never have opened the boot if I couldn’t handle him but that’s another point entirely. 

 

The real issue was that my feelings were invalidated by him. He later went on to say that I ‘blew the whole thing out of proportion’ and ‘over-reacted’. I tried to explain to him that those comments minimalized what I was feeling. Despite the amount of times I tried to explain to him, he argues from a completely logical point of view, and cannot understand why I’m acting like this over some eggs. He says he was trying to reassure me that it wasn’t a big deal, which I believe was his intention, but I wanted him to understand how I took it so he would be more careful with my feelings in the future. I wanted empathy. But when I ask if he understand how his comments made me feel, he says ‘I can’t imagine because that’s not how I’d react’ but that lack of true understanding makes me feel unheard and unable to move forward. 

 

I feel like I’m having circular conversations and going crazy. We were really getting along for a couple of days before this and now I feel like my behaviour has ruined everything. I would have to move back home if I was to end the relationship and my parents have an emotionally abusive relationship which isn’t a great environment for me to be in, so I feel trapped between a rock and a hard place. It’s also my Christmas and my birthday this week and my boyfriend has said how he was unsure whether to even get me anything because of how insecure the relationship feels at the moment, and that he can’t afford the house if I was to leave, so the money would be better spent there, which attaches guilt to my presents. I feel guilty that I’m thinking of leaving and he’s bought me anything with not a lot of money but it’s also left a bad taste in my mouth. 

 

I would hugely appreciate if somebody impartial could give me some advice? Thank you.

[elaine567]

You want to take this relationship to the next level, deeper bonding, greater understanding, but he is stuck at the "I need sex, why won't she give it to me when I need it" level.
You tell him you are unhappy  and tell him how you are feeling he counters with logic.
Logic trumps feelings as far as he is concerned and thus he "wins" the argument.
"You are "nuts",  the incomprehensible, illogical woman, he is just trying his best to please you... "
Only he isn't, not really, he doesn't want to.
I think you have probably outgrown him.
You want "more" from this relationship and he is not capable of giving you "more".

[d0nnivain]

Men need to have sex to feel loved.  Women need to feel loved to have sex.  You two are at a cross roads.  You want emotional intimacy which he might not be able to give you.  He also is drawing a line in the sand essentially saying he won't even try to bond if you two aren't having sex. 

 

The fact that you live together both talk about HIS dog as opposed to Your joint dog & the eggs aren't a joint house hold expense makes me think you are more disconnected then connected.  

 

Unfortunately you can't change him.  All you can do is decide if this is how you want to spend the rest of your life.  Assume nothing will ever change.  What do you want to do then -- stay or go?  

[schlumpy]

It was a no-win situation. One of you needed to rise above it but neither did. That you would make such a big deal out of your feelings being minimized tells me that you don't have a solid connection to this man. If he had any common sense or experience with women he would have stopped arguing with you and just cleaned up the eggs and replaced them. After all, didn't he state it wasn't a big deal? Then he should have acted like it.

 

You have to have more of a reason to stay together then a bad family atmosphere and the mortgage needs payed. You two need to get on the same page or start a new one with someone else.

[Poppy93]

I’m not sure I am making a big deal out of my feelings being minimised; coupled with a lack of intimacy it makes you feel disrespected. It also causes you to question your sense of judgement if you are emotionally vulnerable with a ‘trusted’ partner and they tell you how you’re feeling is wrong. This may be why I am not connected to him. 

 

Thank you for your comment though.

[preraph]

Just doesn't sound like a good match.  He only wants sex and rejects any other type of giving or receiving affection, and that's not right.  He needs to be more balanced that for sex to be the cornerstone of the relationship for him.  And you don't need to have sex with someone who is acting like he's acting except when he's having sex.  So doesn't sound like a good match.  He sounds too limited in scope....

[chillii]

You say your needs aren't being met , god l tell ya can't stand that term it just cries me me me for a start.

Yep , your both going in circles , , he's needs aren't being met either if you wanna put it that way. And no l'm not talking about physically / sexually , although yeah that is one thing bugging him.

But you see this is only one side of the story and from your point of view. But even from what you say , he ain't happy either. You do this and don't do that and your distant and l can see what he's saying. Your talking about him him him , but l don't think you realize what you might be like to live with and just be with.

That's bugging him , a lot . Your both bugging each other and it's cause and effect BOTH ways.

Not sure if there's a solution because your both just totally different and both withdrawn because of it.

 

l can only think of one thing really that might help the ball roll again , start listening to him too, and thinking about what  he tells you, and taking a look at yourself in this too. A lot of women have no clue what they're like to live with ,they think they're perfect, but they have no idea how things they do effect a partner and actually make him even more and more distant .

Not saying it's all you , that's what l meant, your both doing it to each other. Because your just different , not aligning .

But if neither listen and look at themselves as well , then really how can it change.

And no , the physical alone ain't gonna fix it , it'll only make it a little bit better, for awhile. There's much much more to you two goin on than just that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by chillii

[mark clemson]

I think you BOTH need to understand that for you to get what you want, you need to give the other what they want. You need to consider starting to be more physically intimate. HE needs to understand that for you to do that the relationship itself overall needs to be better, including your emotional needs being met.

 

Hopefully you two can sort that out. Couples counseling (CC) would probably help.

 

Barring this improvement, it sounds like whatever wheels are left will just continue falling off the train until your financial circumstances change enough for one or both of you to leave or something "breaks the camel's back" (e.g. cheating).

 

I'm not saying its beyond repair, but IMO BOTH of you need to come to the table willing to meet each others' needs. Right now it seems neither of you are interested/willing without the other providing first.

 

You might consider "cosy" cuddling (without sex being the primary focus) as an initial icebreaker/first step. E.g. during TV time or in the mornings before getting up. A chance for you to connect more without having to give "full" physical intimacy. Consider doing this as time to "connect" on a regular basis while you repair the R (IF you decide to repair the R).

[snowboy91]

10 hours ago, Poppy93 said:

My boyfriend [25M] and I [25F] have been together for 3 years and live together. 

 

Over the past year especially, he has become more emotionally disconnected from me. For example, he won’t offer affection, be vulnerable with his feelings or initiate any difficult conversations. I have nicely told him that these things would make me feel more emotionally connected to him many times.

 

He usually responds by saying he feels attacked, that I am the one who is withdrawn and that he can’t be emotionally connected with somebody who is not physically intimate with him. 

...

In reality it’s due to not feeling attracted to him because I do not feel emotionally safe with him when I open up with my feelings. 

...

I feel guilty that I’m thinking of leaving and he’s bought me anything with not a lot of money but it’s also left a bad taste in my mouth. 

 

Because you're not emotionally connected to each other, his emotions are out of step with what is really going on (he feels attacked when you try and open up, when he shouldn't be taking it personally). But you may also be out of step and might be withdrawing yourself.

I think you're right to be reconsidering the relationship. You're trying to get him to open up to no avail, and he's withdrawing possibly because he isn't feeling as strongly about you as he once did, and he's still trying to process it. That being said, there could be a whole range of other reasons for him withdrawing.

Guilt isn't a reason to stay in a relationship. You both need to discuss with each other what it is you need from this relationship, and whether or not you (and he) want to stay in it. Try to do so without judgement - if he said to you he feels trapped in the relationship and wants to leave, how would you feel? What would you expect him to do?

[elaine567]

On 12/9/2019 at 8:52 PM, mark clemson said:

Hopefully you two can sort that out. Couples counseling (CC) would probably help.

 

Why would they bother? They are 25, both single, no kids.
They tried it, they moved in together, it doesn't work which means they split up to find better options. They are not 45 with a houseful of kids and a live in granny...
The purpose of dating is NOT to find someone and then spend the rest of one's life trying to push a square peg into a round hole.

[mark clemson]

Fair enough. I'm assuming she wants the R to continue, but your point that it seems like they're probably not right for each other is a valid one.

[2BGoodAgain]

it's not really true that men need sex to feel loved or vice versa for women.

I've met women who are more like men then some men I know. and myself, I've found that how intimate I am with a woman, greatly affects my desires for sex. 

 

Here's the thing, you two should take the 5 languages of love test. It's a general short questionnaire but it may help you find out how you interpret love and how you express love. For both you and your bf.

 

it's just a basic thing; it doesn't explain why you express/interpret love that way, but it may help you and him understand each other in terms of how you express and comprehend love.

 

Then you two need therapy. for diff reasons. not b/c you're both crazy or anything, but there are usually underlying reasons for why you interpret love a certain way. it's more to help each of you individually to understand what's underneath your feelings/actions.

 

B/c personally, your bf seems like a prick. lol. but that's just me. Sorry if that offended you. I realize this whole situation in your life is from your viewpoint only, and we don't know his side of the story... so i'll give you that, but his reactions and actions towards you doesn't seem to concerned about you, but just what he gets out of the relationship.

 

One of the tenets of love is .. wanting the best for the other... selfless love.

He seems to be only concerned about his wants, his needs, his actions... just a thought.

 

Wish you the best!

 

 

[spiderowl]

I think it is very difficult for people to feel their needs are being met when they are so different from each other.  You need to feel he is more empathic and caring and he needs to feel wanted sexually more than he is at the moment.  Unless both of you make a real effort to meet the others' needs, this will inevitably fall apart.  Having said that, if I were in your position, I would not bother.  He does not sound caring enough to me.

[Legatus]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:01 PM, 2BGoodAgain said:

it's not really true that men need sex to feel loved or vice versa for women.

 

I agree. This is gender-biased stereotype that perhaps has some validation in reality but not always.

 

To me it seems like he doesn't have one major thing that you explicitly said you wanted: empathy

 

Whether it be eggs or something else, his lack of imagination and responses like "I can't imagine because I wouldn't react like that" is basically a poor explanation of his lack of empathy. 

 

Somebody described it perfectly: you've outgrown him.

 

You could potentially stay and wait, and try to work on him, but clearly you were good for 3 years and you just diverged too much. That means you weren't growing together. You might spend another 3 years trying to change him but he will only get defensive and frustrated. Your needs are not at the same level. To me both parties should want physical and emotional intimacy and not be split like that.

 

I can imagine it is hard to keep in such relationship but at the same time thinking that financially it could be difficult when you leave. That is a tough situation. Can you talk to some friends and see if anybody could at least lend you their couch for few weeks?

[preraph]

He just wants sex and to him, that's as close as he gets to "closeness," which is sad for him.  We hear it a lot on here:  I can't feel close without sex.   It's just him leveraging you to get sex.  Plenty of guys can be interested and engaging before they ever have sex with someone or one in particular.  He's saying, If you want me to pretend to care, have sex with me (which at this point is asking YOU to pretend to want to have sex).  So I'm afraid you've hit this impasse, and it's a bad one.  You need someone with more depth than "can't feel emotionally connected with someone unless it involves their penis.  I mean, Lord, what if you have kids someday?  Wouldn't it be nice if he could feel "emotionally connected to them"?  

 

Find someone not so one-dimensional.

Edited December 17, 2019 by preraph

[stillafool]

You two don't sound very compatible at all.  The way you each need love is not compatible.  You sound like you need deep, emotional conversations but he does not.  You want to go Christmas browsing and but he does not (my husband would rather cut off his arm),  Your expectations are different than his, he wants sex and you aren't feeling it.   I don't see this relationship lasting before one of you meets a person you're compatible with.

[basil67]

I can see that you're unhappy with what's going on, but I suspect the language you're using to try and address the problems is missing the mark.   I'm guessing that you've either been seeing a therapist or reading self help books and this is where you've picked up the language you're using, but he doesn't know what you need because you're not putting it in simple terms.  I would also suggest that in terms of being vulnerable, you're wanting him to act like one of your girlfriends instead of a guy.

 

To break it down further, I'm going to look at issues one by one:

 

>> he won’t offer affection, be vulnerable with his feelings or initiate any difficult conversations. I have nicely told him that these things would make me feel more emotionally connected to him many times.<< 

 

With affection, be specific with what you want.  Now we know he wants sex, so he will say that he is offering affection.  But spell out what you need.  Cuddles on the sofa, a hug when he walks by.  What is it that you want?    Regarding being vulnerable with feelings....generally speaking, men sort out their own feelings without sharing them.  I know we workshop all our issues with girlfriends, but guys don't do that.    Initiating difficult conversations:  He has told you that he's not OK with you being physically withdrawn, so he IS initiating difficult conversations.

 

>>weekend I proposed the idea to go to the Christmas markets as a bonding activity ......he agreed to come and told me to take my time shopping and ‘it’s never enough’. To me, it wasn’t about shopping, it was about bonding with him which I tried to explain<<   

 

Oh Poppy, again, 'bonding' is therapy speak.   Try to switch out the word 'bonding' for 'fun' or 'have a good time together'.  When you do make a suggestion, don't suggest Christmas shopping.   OK, so there are a few gifters around who really enjoy this, but for most of us, Christmas shopping and markets are a slow form of torture.  I'm not surprised that he wasn't engage.  If it's winter where you are, perhaps he'd jump at the chance of going to the pub to sit by the fire with a few impromptu drinks.  Or finding time to ski or skate.  Or rug up for a picnic with gourmet food. 

 

>>When I opened the boot to get the shopping out, his dog pushed to get out despite me pushing him back and I dropped a carton of eggs. I was frustrated that I’d have to clean it up and go back out and get some now. My boyfriend responded by saying ‘don’t worry about it, it’s not the end of the world!’ and ‘are you going to clean that up?’ which amplified my frustration <<   .......The real issue was that my feelings were invalidated by him. He later went on to say that I ‘blew the whole thing out of proportion’ and ‘over-reacted’. I tried to explain to him that those comments minimalized what I was feeling. Despite the amount of times I tried to explain to him, he argues from a completely logical point of view, and cannot understand why I’m acting like this over some eggs<<   

 

Of all the therapy speak, 'validating my feelings'  or 'minimilalized what I was feeling' are probably the most cringe worthy.    So before we look at other ways to approach this, first tell us what he was doing while you were cleaning the eggs.   If he was on his phone, then you've got a problem.  If he was unpacking the shopping, then he's probably got a point.  

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by basil67
formatting

[Super Phantom]

Being vulnerable is not a good thing gor a man to do in a relationship. 

[Super Phantom]

On 12/9/2019 at 9:16 AM, elaine567 said:

You want to take this relationship to the next level, deeper bonding, greater understanding, but he is stuck at the "I need sex, why won't she give it to me when I need it" level.
You tell him you are unhappy  and tell him how you are feeling he counters with logic.
Logic trumps feelings as far as he is concerned and thus he "wins" the argument.
"You are "nuts",  the incomprehensible, illogical woman, he is just trying his best to please you... "
Only he isn't, not really, he doesn't want to.
I think you have probably outgrown him.
You want "more" from this relationship and he is not capable of giving you "more".

It's not about taking it to the next level. A lot of people really need to date a while before the get in a relationship. Some qualities you want are only good on paper and a man being vulnerable emotionally is definitely one. A man doing that is only making more problems for himself. I will just wait for the virtue signaling to begin now

[JoeyArnold]

Relationships built around sex are flawed. 

[Super Phantom]

4 hours ago, JoeyArnold said:

Relationships built around sex are flawed. 

Every relationship is flawed

[2BGoodAgain]

i doubt many relationships start perfect or ideal... though i'm sure there are some. :)

 

It matters how you first meet... how/why/where/etc , but since most people are in this boat, it kinda also doesn't matter.

 

What matters is what you do when you DO start having feelings... some folk hook up and then fall for the other... and then it can blossom into a beautiful thing b/c the relationship transforms each other for the better... it's when it doesn't benefit both, that relationships/individuals take a sharp turn into hell. :)

 

your bf perceives love thru sex. that isn't necessarily a bad thing until the benefits to you starts going south... b/c on one hand, that could be a fun thing to have in a relationship... on the other hand, it seems you're at a stage or perhaps a core tenet of your love isn't just sex but more indepth feelings etc...

 

he may not be mature enough or have grown enough to be where you are... and he's stuck... but he may be in denial or unaware of this part of him and so as far as he's concerned, since you two started out great and now you suddenly seem to want more... he feels YOU are at fault for trying to change the relationship, when in reality, all relationships change over time... together, you should meet that change and find a path that satisfies and benefits both... but again... he's not there.

 

he's also prob offended or angry, when you approach this subject b/c mebbe consciously or subconsciously, he knows he needs to get past just sex = love... but he can't or he won't or he's in complete denial.

 

anyway, when you love someone, their needs/wants matter.... and it should go both ways, not just from one partner to the other.

 

So if he keeps ignoring/denying your feelings/thoughts on this important matter to you... i see a dead end to this relationship. mebbe not immediately, but eventually.

 

wish you the best!

[Super Phantom]

11 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

i doubt many relationships start perfect or ideal... though i'm sure there are some.

 

It matters how you first meet... how/why/where/etc , but since most people are in this boat, it kinda also doesn't matter.

 

What matters is what you do when you DO start having feelings... some folk hook up and then fall for the other... and then it can blossom into a beautiful thing b/c the relationship transforms each other for the better... it's when it doesn't benefit both, that relationships/individuals take a sharp turn into hell.

 

your bf perceives love thru sex. that isn't necessarily a bad thing until the benefits to you starts going south... b/c on one hand, that could be a fun thing to have in a relationship... on the other hand, it seems you're at a stage or perhaps a core tenet of your love isn't just sex but more indepth feelings etc...

 

he may not be mature enough or have grown enough to be where you are... and he's stuck... but he may be in denial or unaware of this part of him and so as far as he's concerned, since you two started out great and now you suddenly seem to want more... he feels YOU are at fault for trying to change the relationship, when in reality, all relationships change over time... together, you should meet that change and find a path that satisfies and benefits both... but again... he's not there.

 

he's also prob offended or angry, when you approach this subject b/c mebbe consciously or subconsciously, he knows he needs to get past just sex = love... but he can't or he won't or he's in complete denial.

 

anyway, when you love someone, their needs/wants matter.... and it should go both ways, not just from one partner to the other.

 

So if he keeps ignoring/denying your feelings/thoughts on this important matter to you... i see a dead end to this relationship. mebbe not immediately, but eventually.

 

wish you the best!

No no and no. I will repeat this. Men sharing feelings hurt them in the end. Women say they want a certain thing until they see it and this it turns to the guy being dumped. Vulnerability is a trait men should share with women sparingly

[Poppy93]

Thank you to everybody for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.

[Poppy93]

 

-

Edited December 20, 2019 by Poppy93
Double post