Intergenerational Courtships

[awalns]

Hello,  I have been trying to revive the discussion about dating those where the age difference is 20-35 years.  I hope to get a variety of viewpoints on this topic, particularly how can brings this option back into the mainstream of dating and marriage.  I look forward to a lively and productive exchange with all of you!!

[preraph]

IMO, that's too big of a gap to be practical.  

[awalns]

That's the common perception, but I am here to discuss why in at least some cases it would be advisable to call it a misperception.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Go ahead....tell us why you feel that way.  

[awalns]

What I would like to do is first examine the common prejudices  and slanders directed against those couples with large age differences, show that many of these are unfounded and/or inappropriate, then move to look at the advantages of such relationships/marriages.  I think many people will be surprised by a systematic exposition of this type of interaction.

1 minute ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

Go ahead....tell us why you feel that way.  

Well first it would be prudent to examine the current and often hostile environment for people that have such a relationship or would like to.  I can begin to expound on this later in the week.  For those who would like to observe some real life situations in the meantime,  I strongly recommend the Age Gap Love series available for viewing on Netflix.  I know I can identify a lot with what these folks say.

21 minutes ago, preraph said:

IMO, that's too big of a gap to be practical.  

Not necessarily.  More on that later.

[basil67]

You're talking about it 'bringing the option back to the mainstream', so I assume you're comparing it to historical marriages where a woman needed a husband to provide.   My family history does have a handful of women remarrying an older man after their husbands died due to the sheer necessity of having a roof and food for themselves and their children.  There was also a couple of women barely out of their teens who married much older men.  Again, it was about having a roof over their heads.   That said, most of my ancestors married someone very close in age....so I can't see there being much of a history to return.

 

 

[awalns]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're talking about it 'bringing the option back to the mainstream', so I assume you're comparing it to historical marriages where a woman needed a husband to provide.   My family history does have a handful of women remarrying an older man after their husbands died due to the sheer necessity of having a roof and food for themselves and their children.  There was also a couple of women barely out of their teens who married much older men.  Again, it was about having a roof over their heads.   That said, most of my ancestors married someone very close in age....so I can't see there being much of a history to return.

 

 

That is INDEED one of the great advantages to this arrangement:  The return of the housewife/mother/homemaker!!!  That is part of what I want to get into in a bit.

Great first day of discussion!!!!

[d0nnivain]

Why does it have to be brought back to the mainstream?  If you want a relationship like that & find a willing partner, have a relationship like that.  Why do the rest of us have to buy in, as long as we don't intentionally interfere?  

 

Personally when I was younger I was all about my career.  I cherish my economic independence & would have been unfulfilled relying on someone else for money or anything else.   I liked older men, but not that much older.  Ironically I am married to a younger man & it's been great.  

 

Our cable has been out since a bog ice storm last week.  I have been watching old shows on the internet.  One of the series I discovered was a short lived thing called The Astronauts' Wives Club -- all about the women who were married to America's first space heroes in the 1960s.  The infidelity  was rampant according to this but these poor women stayed & played dutiful little homemaker while the boys diddled every skirt in sight.   Even if this is a work of fiction, it was disgusting.  The characters were close in age so it's not exactly the generational gap you are advocating.   

[mark clemson]

Well, assuming you're in a culture where people can date/marry who they choose to, the way to effect this change would be to convince people of its benefits (if any actually exist) on a large scale. This might be possible via mass media and "marketing" of this concept. Presumably companies that specialize in sales could find a variety of strategies to effect this kind of mindset change. As it goes against people's (general) current tendencies to choose folks relatively close in age, it would probably require an extended, widespread marketing campaign (and the bankroll to fund it).

 

So that's how one might accomplish it. I'm not at all clear on what benefits there might actually be for anyone. Why, for example, might a 29 year old male wish to date or marry a post-menopausal 50+ woman if he desires to start a family? Doesn't make much sense to me. But marketing folks seem to be good at accentuating some of the facts and downplaying others, so presumably people could be convinced.

Edited December 9, 2019 by mark clemson

[preraph]

The ponies are already out of the corral and have been for some time now.  Good luck putting them back in. 

[elaine567]

Mark makes a good point.
People tend to do what is best for themselves.
The benefits of a young women marrying a guy old enough to be her father/grandfather are not sizeable enough in most cases to outweigh the disadvantages.
Similarly the benefits of a young man marrying a woman old enough to be his mother/grandmother are not sizeable enough in most cases to outweigh the disadvantages.
Yes there are outliers, and people who see opportunity  to take advantage, and there are no doubt some genuine love stories out there, but "mainstream" not ever going to happen anytime soon.

 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I can't imagine a women in her twenties actually being sexually attracted to a man in his sixties.  She may like the lifestyle he provides and go along with the sex and act like she's into it because she likes the lifestyle so much, but actually being sexually attracted?  I think that would be rare.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, awalns said:

That is INDEED one of the great advantages to this arrangement:  The return of the housewife/mother/homemaker!!!  That is part of what I want to get into in a bit.

Great first day of discussion!!!!

Given that I was writing from a historical perspective, we're talking about women who have no education or ability to purchase property being forced into the situation with no choice other than prostitution, sewing till all hours by candlelight or the poor house.   You see this as something to aspire to?

Edited December 9, 2019 by basil67

[stillafool]

Are you a man or a woman?

[basil67]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Why, for example, might a 29 year old male wish to date or marry a post-menopausal 50+ woman if he desires to start a family? Doesn't make much sense to me. But marketing folks seem to be good at accentuating some of the facts and downplaying others, so presumably people could be convinced.

As a post menopausal woman, there's also the lost sex drive to factor in.   A man who's equipment isn't as firm/reliable as it used to be would be a far better match all around than a 29yo guy.  

 

 

9 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Are you a man or a woman?

I'm guessing a man because he wants to direct the conversation to the advantages of stay at home wives.

[awalns]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 4:14 PM, stillafool said:

Are you a man or a woman?

I am a man; 51 years young as of now.

Before I get into some of the advantages of this type of relationship/marriage: I would like to construct a hypothetical composite of what the general public would perceive if they saw two people of such a vast age difference together.  Let's say it is a 50 year old man and 25 year old woman who are obviously enjoying each other's company in a romantic manner.  For the man they public would most like think more than one of the following: (remember the only thing they know about these two people is the large difference in age):

 

Again for the man:

Pervert

Cradle robber

Sugar Daddy

Groomer

 

For the Woman:

Gold digger

Sugar baby

 

Now I ask is this fair?  TRUE, there are many situations where these labels are quite accurate, but to stigmatize and malign them SOLETY based on the age difference is not acceptable. It is presumptuous and mean.

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 4:23 PM, basil67 said:

As a post menopausal woman, there's also the lost sex drive to factor in.   A man who's equipment isn't as firm/reliable as it used to be would be a far better match all around than a 29yo guy.  

 

 

I'm guessing a man because he wants to direct the conversation to the advantages of stay at home wives.

That is indeed one of the pluses of this whole thing; the cost of child care, health care, tuition, etc makes it very hard for the woman to stay home even if their dual income is considerable.

[awalns]

Please remember this isn't first and foremost about sex.  It's about a truly loving relationship that will lead to marriage.  Soulmates.  Best friends through thick and thin.

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 3:23 PM, elaine567 said:

Mark makes a good point.
People tend to do what is best for themselves.
The benefits of a young women marrying a guy old enough to be her father/grandfather are not sizeable enough in most cases to outweigh the disadvantages.
Similarly the benefits of a young man marrying a woman old enough to be his mother/grandmother are not sizeable enough in most cases to outweigh the disadvantages.
Yes there are outliers, and people who see opportunity  to take advantage, and there are no doubt some genuine love stories out there, but "mainstream" not ever going to happen anytime soon.

 

Yes, sadly society will still degrade and ostracize them instead of offering the benefit of the doubt.  I appreciate you acknowledge the presence of outliers; I happen to be one of them. 

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 3:00 PM, d0nnivain said:

Why does it have to be brought back to the mainstream?  If you want a relationship like that & find a willing partner, have a relationship like that.  Why do the rest of us have to buy in, as long as we don't intentionally interfere?  

 

Personally when I was younger I was all about my career.  I cherish my economic independence & would have been unfulfilled relying on someone else for money or anything else.   I liked older men, but not that much older.  Ironically I am married to a younger man & it's been great.  

 

Our cable has been out since a bog ice storm last week.  I have been watching old shows on the internet.  One of the series I discovered was a short lived thing called The Astronauts' Wives Club -- all about the women who were married to America's first space heroes in the 1960s.  The infidelity  was rampant according to this but these poor women stayed & played dutiful little homemaker while the boys diddled every skirt in sight.   Even if this is a work of fiction, it was disgusting.  The characters were close in age so it's not exactly the generational gap you are advocating.   

That's the problem; sometimes people do interfere. Shouting obscenities at them, badgering them to the point where they feel they have to move to a new location.  Feeling like they have to explain themselves to everyone who calls them out on their private matters

I am delighted with the thoughtful responses, intriguing questions, and civil discourse you people have shown here in such a short time.  Thank you for this and let's keep talking! I am hoping to be able to post some useful links on this topic soon.

[basil67]

23 minutes ago, awalns said:

That is indeed one of the pluses of this whole thing; the cost of child care, health care, tuition, etc makes it very hard for the woman to stay home even if their dual income is considerable.

How is this relevant to marrying an old guy?   Are you assuming all old guys have money?  

 

Also, one of our mates dated a 20 years younger woman when he left his first marriage.  We said none of the things you cite.  We simply waited for the fling to end, as it did after about three months. 

 

I'm your age - early 50's.  Can you explain the benefits of me being with a 78 yo guy over my late 50's partner?  Because I struggle to see any benefit whatsoever.

Edited December 11, 2019 by basil67

[elaine567]

Ok so you are an outlier, a man who wants/has a woman half your age.
The problem here for society is that there is a huge "ick" factor and taboo associated with men having sex with women the same age as their daughters.
That is why society does not want to give free rein to large age gap relationships.
We(gen) want to protect our children from older people, who will steal their youth and saddle them with extra work as they age.
We want to maintain the family unit, two young fit people having kids in their prime, not having them grow up with older, sick and infirm people who will likely not survive into their adulthood. We need youngish grandparents, not dead people.

[basil67]

Hmmm...just wondering now.  Do you have a young partner and people are interfering?   Or is it that you want a young partner and are having trouble getting one?

[elaine567]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I'm your age - early 50's.  Can you explain the benefits of me being with a 78 yo guy over my late 50's partner?  Because I struggle to see any benefit whatsoever.

Exactly.

OP
At 51 do you see any advantage in having a 76yo partner?
That is what you expect this young woman to put up with.
I get it, you want a fit "nurse" to tend to you in your old age, but what is really in it for her? 

Edited December 11, 2019 by elaine567

[d0nnivain]

20 minutes ago, awalns said:

That's the problem; sometimes people do interfere. Shouting obscenities at them, badgering them to the point where they feel they have to move to a new location.  

 

 

Where the heck do you hang out?  I can't image caring enough about some strangers' romance to comment. 

 

If you can find a woman half your age who wants to date you & procreate with you, have at it. 

[awalns]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 3:34 PM, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

I can't imagine a women in her twenties actually being sexually attracted to a man in his sixties.  She may like the lifestyle he provides and go along with the sex and act like she's into it because she likes the lifestyle so much, but actually being sexually attracted?  I think that would be rare.

Don't be so sure.  If she is interested in more than just sex, any number of fine qualities he has may catch her eye

4 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

 

 

Where the heck do you hang out?  I can't image caring enough about some strangers' romance to comment. 

 

If you can find a woman half your age who wants to date you & procreate with you, have at it. 

That is what I am holding out for.  I have had 10 times better luck with getting their attention than with those who are/were my age

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Exactly.

OP
At 51 do you see any advantage in having a 76yo partner?
That is what you expect this young woman to put up with.
I get it, you want a fit "nurse" to tend to you in your old age, but what is really in it for her? 

What indeed??? How about wisdom, knowledge, wit, humor, financial security, resourcefulness, compassion, understanding, and on and on and on???

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Hmmm...just wondering now.  Do you have a young partner and people are interfering?   Or is it that you want a young partner and are having trouble getting one?

People once tried to interfere; thank goodness they were not successful. But she is going through a phase where she can't seem to stay with the task due to boredom.  I know people with ADHD have a tendency to divert their interests with a good degree of frequency, but as some point she needs to learn that no matter how boring or mundane life's routines may be, she has to do what needs to be done.  What is she going to say in the future:  "sorry my children but taking care of you and your father has become too boring and routine for me, so I am going to do something different now"???

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Ok so you are an outlier, a man who wants/has a woman half your age.
The problem here for society is that there is a huge "ick" factor and taboo associated with men having sex with women the same age as their daughters.
That is why society does not want to give free rein to large age gap relationships.
We(gen) want to protect our children from older people, who will steal their youth and saddle them with extra work as they age.
We want to maintain the family unit, two young fit people having kids in their prime, not having them grow up with older, sick and infirm people who will likely not survive into their adulthood. We need youngish grandparents, not dead people.

Who said anything about sex??  That's for marriage.  How about just being together in a wonderful courtship that only gets better with time??

[awalns]

To say nothing about other qualities like experience, faithfulness, patience, knowing how the world works, honesty... well you get the idea!

Edited December 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[basil67]

1 hour ago, awalns said:

People once tried to interfere; thank goodness they were not successful. But she is going through a phase where she can't seem to stay with the task due to boredom.  I know people with ADHD have a tendency to divert their interests with a good degree of frequency, but as some point she needs to learn that no matter how boring or mundane life's routines may be, she has to do what needs to be done.  What is she going to say in the future:  "sorry my children but taking care of you and your father has become too boring and routine for me, so I am going to do something different now"???

 

And here is exactly the reason that dating an older man is to be avoided: The patronising tone he will employ speaking down to her with all his "worldly knowledge".   I have news for you: not everyone wants the same thing and trying to tell a partner that your way is the only way is a recipe for disaster.    This woman apparently needs a relationship which is a bit more dynamic than what you have to offer. Someone who can appreciate that simply being housekeeper, wife and mother can be very boring.  

 

Are you married?  Do you have a child?  Just how unhappy is she in this life?

Edited December 12, 2019 by basil67