stillafool Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Look since the beginning of time men have married women much younger than them, if they can get them. Just do what you want and not try to drag other people into your decision. Whether people like it more and more people both men and women are choosing younger partners if they can get them. I guess because I have no children I have no dog in this fight and I really don't care. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Perhaps you needed to just come on the forum and say I am a 51 yo man in a relationship with a woman half my age and I am experiencing problems, a, b and c, and I need some advice , instead of trying to turn this into a discussion about how large age gap relationships of 25-35 years NEED to be seen as mainstream. People make up their own minds about what is seen as acceptable, you can't force them to accept what is to them the unacceptable, just because you want to live your life a certain way. If your gf/wife is "bored" with her life at 25, she is probably NOT going to want to stick around no matter how much you want her to. She doesn't NEED to learn anything, she is an adult, she is not your child. Trouble is many younger women can want to "play house", but when they wake up to the reality of "playing house" then they tend to not want to "play house" any more. In days gone by they had no option but to stay put. Now they don't have to do that. And yes some women have walked out on husbands and kids when their life becomes intolerable or when they realise the whole marriage and kids thing was never what they wanted to do the first place, they were railroaded into it... 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/11/2019 at 11:43 PM, basil67 said: And here is exactly the reason that dating an older man is to be avoided: The patronising tone he will employ speaking down to her with all his "worldly knowledge". I have news for you: not everyone wants the same thing and trying to tell a partner that your way is the only way is a recipe for disaster. This woman apparently needs a relationship which is a bit more dynamic than what you have to offer. Someone who can appreciate that simply being housekeeper, wife and mother can be very boring. Are you married? Do you have a child? Just how unhappy is she in this life? I do not have all the answers for her at this point; it's work in progress and a long one at that. But this is what's so wrong with society, belittling/looking down on the wonderful role of wife and mother over career. Women who marry secure, responsible older men have a great chance to engage in this type of life leaving time to spend with the kids not only at home but also at school, to be more involved with the community, including her church if she belongs to one. This lack of such women is responsible for so much of the moral decay of the modern world. So not only would she be with someone who is mature, accomplished, and knowing pretty much what he wants in life, society stands to benefit enormously. True, this kind of arrangement is not for everyone and I don't advocate that; I simply wish to present it as an option to consider and most of all respect. Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 11:22 AM, elaine567 said: Perhaps you needed to just come on the forum and say I am a 51 yo man in a relationship with a woman half my age and I am experiencing problems, a, b and c, and I need some advice , instead of trying to turn this into a discussion about how large age gap relationships of 25-35 years NEED to be seen as mainstream. People make up their own minds about what is seen as acceptable, you can't force them to accept what is to them the unacceptable, just because you want to live your life a certain way. If your gf/wife is "bored" with her life at 25, she is probably NOT going to want to stick around no matter how much you want her to. She doesn't NEED to learn anything, she is an adult, she is not your child. Trouble is many younger women can want to "play house", but when they wake up to the reality of "playing house" then they tend to not want to "play house" any more. In days gone by they had no option but to stay put. Now they don't have to do that. And yes some women have walked out on husbands and kids when their life becomes intolerable or when they realise the whole marriage and kids thing was never what they wanted to do the first place, they were railroaded into it... That is why a good courtship prior to marriage is CRITICAL. They need to be sure they want the same thing together. I do not want to get series with career women. I am traditional and that is what I am looking for in a spouse should I marry again. On 12/12/2019 at 9:27 AM, stillafool said: Look since the beginning of time men have married women much younger than them, if they can get them. Just do what you want and not try to drag other people into your decision. Whether people like it more and more people both men and women are choosing younger partners if they can get them. I guess because I have no children I have no dog in this fight and I really don't care. If that were the general consensus, I would not be doing this. But there are many out there who harass, interfere, intimidate, making trouble for these couples. If they could just learn to stay out of it we would all be fine. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 People have complained about "moral decay" since Greek, Roman, and biblical times (both Old and New Testament) so I hardly think it's a feature of today. I think it's a permanent fixture as ideas about what constitute morality ebb, flow, and change from one generation to the next. There are parts of the world today where education of women is seen as "immoral". Do you insist she be ignorant of the world as well? Probably not (and I agree) but some would consider that a moral failing on your part. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 4:14 PM, stillafool said: Are you a man or a woman? I am an older man 1 minute ago, mark clemson said: People have complained about "moral decay" since Greek, Roman, and biblical times (both Old and New Testament) so I hardly think it's a feature of today. I think it's a permanent fixture as ideas about what constitute morality ebb, flow, and change from one generation to the next. There are parts of the world today where education of women is seen as "immoral". Do you insist she be ignorant of the world as well? Probably not (and I agree) but some would consider that a moral failing on your part. Heavens NO!! I think all women can be highly educated and totally committed to their families. Having advanced degrees for a homemaker can't hurt as far as I am concerned! It can make her all the better at taking care of her family. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Do you live in the United States? If so, I find this hard to believe. I've known many men and women for that matter who have dated considerably younger and no one made a peep. Unless it's their daughter or son no one cares. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, stillafool said: Do you live in the United States? If so, I find this hard to believe. I've known many men and women for that matter who have dated considerably younger and no one made a peep. Unless it's their daughter or son no one cares. I would like to think we can live and let live, but I am still of the mind that there is significant prejudice and condensation when it comes to this kind of thing. For example let us say a man goes out on the street and asks 25 people at random if he/she knows someone he could take on a date. How many of those 25 do you think would bother to ask: "What kind of age are you looking for?". Right? They just ASSUME you are looking for someone your own age. But maybe the hate/harassment is more likely in countries like England. If you watch the show "Age Gap Love" this appears to be true. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Age Gap Love on Netflix would be as inflammatory in representation as any other network looking for market/shock value. What is your question, awalns? There are age gap relationships everywhere who are quietly going about their lives and frankly, no person gives a fuss. If you are asking whether a person observes in public a grey haired, incapacitated person making out with a much younger individual would raise eyebrows...yes it would. Then again, any persons of an unusual coupling is noted in public for a multitude of reasons not regarding to age. Most people glance and move along. Why the thread awalns? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 53 minutes ago, awalns said: I do not have all the answers for her at this point; it's work in progress and a long one at that. But this is what's so wrong with society, belittling/looking down on the wonderful role of wife and mother over career. Women who marry secure, responsible older men have a great chance to engage in this type of life leaving time to spend with the kids not only at home but also at school, to be more involved with the community, including her church if she belongs to one. Why do you need to marry so young in order find a woman who is traditional? Is it because you can mold her into what you want? I think there are plenty of older women who would be like "heck yeah, I'll quit my job and be a housewife!" if you asked them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, awalns said: Women who marry secure, responsible older men have a great chance to engage in this type of life leaving time to spend with the kids not only at home but also at school, to be more involved with the community, including her church if she belongs to one. This lack of such women is responsible for so much of the moral decay of the modern world. So not only would she be with someone who is mature, accomplished, and knowing pretty much what he wants in life, society stands to benefit enormously. Full disclosure: I'm a stay at home mother/carer to our disabled child. But my husband is a similar age to me . We met when he was 30. He is also mature, accomplished, established and know what he wants in life. Add to that, he is young enough to be a fun, active, dynamic father who will still be around to actively enjoy his grandchildren. You have yet to persuade me that you can offer anything which he can't. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 11:22 AM, elaine567 said: Perhaps you needed to just come on the forum and say I am a 51 yo man in a relationship with a woman half my age and I am experiencing problems, a, b and c, and I need some advice , instead of trying to turn this into a discussion about how large age gap relationships of 25-35 years NEED to be seen as mainstream. People make up their own minds about what is seen as acceptable, you can't force them to accept what is to them the unacceptable, just because you want to live your life a certain way. If your gf/wife is "bored" with her life at 25, she is probably NOT going to want to stick around no matter how much you want her to. She doesn't NEED to learn anything, she is an adult, she is not your child. Trouble is many younger women can want to "play house", but when they wake up to the reality of "playing house" then they tend to not want to "play house" any more. In days gone by they had no option but to stay put. Now they don't have to do that. And yes some women have walked out on husbands and kids when their life becomes intolerable or when they realise the whole marriage and kids thing was never what they wanted to do the first place, they were railroaded into it... That's not what this is about. At the present moment I am merely working to raise awareness of the way people who are in such relationships are treated/perceived. I am working through my own situation as I see fit and am keeping it where it belongs: between the two of us. 4 minutes ago, basil67 said: Full disclosure: I'm a stay at home mother/carer to our disabled child. But my husband is a similar age to me . We met when he was 30. He is also mature, accomplished, established and know what he wants in life. Add to that, he is young enough to be a fun, active, dynamic father who will still be around to actively enjoy his grandchildren. You have yet to persuade me that you can offer anything which he can't. I don't have to convince you of anything. I simply am looking to remove the stigma/maligning against those who wish to have this keep of arrangement. Your situation is perfectly fine, but so could one that is the same expect the husband is twice as old. 34 minutes ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said: Why do you need to marry so young in order find a woman who is traditional? Is it because you can mold her into what you want? I think there are plenty of older women who would be like "heck yeah, I'll quit my job and be a housewife!" if you asked them. Hopefully that will happen. It's better if that is what she wants. I find it banging my head against a tree if I have to convince her of this. I really don't have the time or energy to do that anymore. If we want the same thing it will work out great and that's what I wait on. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, awalns said: I simply am looking to remove the stigma/maligning against those who wish to have this keep of arrangement. Your situation is perfectly fine, but so could one that is the same expect the husband is twice as old. And yet you've conveniently not quoted the bits I wrote about why a younger father/husband would be preferable. As for working to remove the stigma, I'm afraid you're only adding to it. No way would I want my daughter to be with a man who sees himself as worldly due to his age yet expresses such a patronising attitude towards women and how he perceives her role in society. Edited December 13, 2019 by basil67 9 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, basil67 said: As for working to remove the stigma, I'm afraid you're only adding to it. True that!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, awalns said: Your situation is perfectly fine, but so could one that is the same expect the husband is twice as old. But you are missing what Basil is saying. An old father is not what Basil needs at present when her child is disabled and needs maximum care and support. The last thing she needs is some guy 20-35yo older than her to potentially add to her burdens. Her husband is perfectly capable of providing all you can offer with the added advantage of youth. That is why the advantage of an older guy quickly dissolves, as age appropriate guys catch up and end up looking like better prospects to younger women. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 2:29 PM, Timshel said: Age Gap Love on Netflix would be as inflammatory in representation as any other network looking for market/shock value. What is your question, awalns? There are age gap relationships everywhere who are quietly going about their lives and frankly, no person gives a fuss. If you are asking whether a person observes in public a grey haired, incapacitated person making out with a much younger individual would raise eyebrows...yes it would. Then again, any persons of an unusual coupling is noted in public for a multitude of reasons not regarding to age. Most people glance and move along. Why the thread awalns? Maybe I am not yet convinced this is the case; I certainly hope it is. What you say is true and doesn't cause any real problems for anyone, but you always have that prejudice, envy, when can create tension if they are close enough together. So to continue. Sometimes we don't always find our perfect match right out of 12th grade. We didn't have a high school sweetheart, we didn't meet in college or on the job, but maybe we met many, many years later in the most unusual way. Maybe she was the real deal, one who truly loved a guy for who he is and not for his wealth or what he could do for her (for example get her into the US). It was for all the RIGHT reasons, a situation that is so sorely lacking these days where a lot of what I see is people being used or neglected or abused. The only thing different about the perfect above scenario: a very large difference in age. So why should that be frowned upon ("oh you are too old for her" or "what are you throwing your life away with that old goat")? On 12/13/2019 at 4:15 PM, elaine567 said: But you are missing what Basil is saying. An old father is not what Basil needs at present when her child is disabled and needs maximum care and support. The last thing she needs is some guy 20-35yo older than her to potentially add to her burdens. Her husband is perfectly capable of providing all you can offer with the added advantage of youth. That is why the advantage of an older guy quickly dissolves, as age appropriate guys catch up and end up looking like better prospects to younger women. True there are risks to both sides. She could be stuck caring for an older husband in her prime if he had a stroke and yes he could lose her is she succumbed to the temptation of a younger man. There are risks to be sure. But aren't there always???? On 12/13/2019 at 3:49 PM, basil67 said: And yet you've conveniently not quoted the bits I wrote about why a younger father/husband would be preferable. As for working to remove the stigma, I'm afraid you're only adding to it. No way would I want my daughter to be with a man who sees himself as worldly due to his age yet expresses such a patronising attitude towards women and how he perceives her role in society. That stereotype you put forth is found at ANY age not just with intergenerationals. That is a patronizing attitude that any good leader of his family would not employ. Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 3:09 PM, preraph said: The ponies are already out of the corral and have been for some time now. Good luck putting them back in. We don't put them back in, we play them Link to post Share on other sites
Pleasant-Sage Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I think people do consider age when choosing a relationship but it's due to what they want out of a relationship. Getting with someone and trying to change them is the completely wrong mindset to have though. That's manipulative behavior at its finest. If I were to ever start a new relationship, she'd probably have to a little older than me. As I don't want anymore kids and I'm not interested in raising step kids after what I just went through. Women my age or a little younger who have kids wouldn't fit the bill and that wouldn't be fair to her kids. Even women without kids wouldn't work either because as their biological clock keeps ticking, they might decide they want some then our relationship has a new problem. See how that's done? You create problems for yourself by making youth your priority when looking for someone to love you. Maybe you don't want love though. Perhaps, you just want someone to make you FEEL young. Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 55 minutes ago, Pleasant-Sage said: I think people do consider age when choosing a relationship but it's due to what they want out of a relationship. Getting with someone and trying to change them is the completely wrong mindset to have though. That's manipulative behavior at its finest. If I were to ever start a new relationship, she'd probably have to a little older than me. As I don't want anymore kids and I'm not interested in raising step kids after what I just went through. Women my age or a little younger who have kids wouldn't fit the bill and that wouldn't be fair to her kids. Even women without kids wouldn't work either because as their biological clock keeps ticking, they might decide they want some then our relationship has a new problem. See how that's done? You create problems for yourself by making youth your priority when looking for someone to love you. Maybe you don't want love though. Perhaps, you just want someone to make you FEEL young. That's not it at all. Any age would have done for me but what I have learned over the last decade is I do much better with those much younger than I; they notice me, they take the time to talk to me, they give me the hugs, they say the sweet things, they go out of their way for me (see how it's done?). The minute I stopped fighting against societies definition of relationship and focused on what is best for me, I found peace whether it meets with anyone's approval or not. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Pleasant-Sage Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, awalns said: That's not it at all. Any age would have done for me but what I have learned over the last decade is I do much better with those much younger than I; they notice me, they take the time to talk to me, they give me the hugs, they say the sweet things, they go out of their way for me (see how it's done?). The minute I stopped fighting against societies definition of relationship and focused on what is best for me, I found peace whether it meets with anyone's approval or not. So, you do want love. I stand corrected. I don't think you will have to worry your other half falling out of love with you simply because of what other people think when you have the right one. You just have to make sure she feels appreciated as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Pleasant-Sage said: So, you do want love. I stand corrected. I don't think you will have to worry your other half falling out of love with you simply because of what other people think when you have the right one. You just have to make sure she feels appreciated as well. Ain't that the truth???? And boy have I worked hard to make THAT happen! Link to post Share on other sites
PinkFlamingo Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 9:40 PM, basil67 said: You're talking about it 'bringing the option back to the mainstream', so I assume you're comparing it to historical marriages where a woman needed a husband to provide. My family history does have a handful of women remarrying an older man after their husbands died due to the sheer necessity of having a roof and food for themselves and their children. There was also a couple of women barely out of their teens who married much older men. Again, it was about having a roof over their heads. That said, most of my ancestors married someone very close in age....so I can't see there being much of a history to return. Yeah, just the other day, I read, how in ancient Greece teenage girls were commonly married to men who were 20 years older. That's every teenager's dream. Most women do not want to marry men who are that much older. If it happesn, it happens, but there is no real reason why something like that should get promoted nowadays. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 18 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said: Yeah, just the other day, I read, how in ancient Greece teenage girls were commonly married to men who were 20 years older. That's every teenager's dream. Most women do not want to marry men who are that much older. If it happesn, it happens, but there is no real reason why something like that should get promoted nowadays. Not promoted but simply respected as a viable, albeit rare, option Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I think that's what it is generally, at least in the US. Just to note: that wasn't how you came across in your original post, although your use of the word "mainstream" may have been the reason. To many I think that suggested you wanted it to be more commonplace. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author awalns Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 2:46 PM, CautiouslyOptimistic said: Why do you need to marry so young in order find a woman who is traditional? Is it because you can mold her into what you want? I think there are plenty of older women who would be like "heck yeah, I'll quit my job and be a housewife!" if you asked them. I don't plan on molding her; she will already be like that when we meet; we will want the same thing. Those are those ones worth waiting for! Link to post Share on other sites
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