Intergenerational Courtships

[PinkFlamingo]

On 12/26/2019 at 3:07 PM, awalns said:

And even if what you say is true about being taught to be nice, maybe this is part of the problem.  Many guys (especially lonely, vulnerable ones) often can and will take their niceness as something else.  Maybe they will think "she likes me" or "she seems to want to get to know me better".  So it may be creating false impressions and false expectations.  This could be part of why guys make so many unwanted advancements towards girls.  Girls really need to be mindful of the power they have when it comes to this sort of thing; they need to have that "better safe than sorry" mentality if they are only trying to be "nice".

You're the kind of guy who would tell random women walking by on the street to smile more if they stopped being nice. Women are screwed whatever they do. Even when they wear a burka and get raped, it's their fault for being lascivious and seducing men with their overtly displayed sexuality.

[PinkFlamingo]

On 12/26/2019 at 4:11 PM, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

How old is he??"  She said, "like 25 or 26!!" 😂

 

Zac Efron is 32.  And that dessert is delicious, by the way.

I remember, when I was 26 (a very, very naive 26 year old) and I saw this guy that I found attractive, but thought he would surely not be interested in me, because he looked like he was over 32 or so and that was old, therefore he surely must not think much of a woman who was much younger than him. I had been looking for a roommate as well at that time and the 33 year old guy who showed up, was also kind of old, although I thought he did look much younger.

Yep, I can't believe how naive I was about the world and men. And OLD opened up my eyes even more.

Most women are probably not as extreme as I was, but the older guys make me pity them and cringe at their ignorance and creepiness at the same time.

[mark clemson]

To be fair to OP (on his original topic). If a younger woman and older man (or vice versa) pair up and decide it works for them, that's really no one's business but theirs. "Creepy" is very much a judgement call, and judgy, and in the eye of the external beholder. I'm not sure what % of relationships are have a high age difference, but it's clearly common enough that we're talking about it here.

[mark clemson]

Now as for older men who "chase" younger women and give them unwanted attention - well, that's at least as bad as unwanted attention from any other guy. Definitely won't be appreciated...

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, mark clemson said:

Now as for older men who "chase" younger women and give them unwanted attention - well, that's at least as bad as unwanted attention from any other guy. Definitely won't be appreciated...

And, the same goes for older women who chase younger men.

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

To be fair to OP (on his original topic). If a younger woman and older man (or vice versa) pair up and decide it works for them, that's really no one's business but theirs. "Creepy" is very much a judgement call, and judgy, and in the eye of the external beholder.

Creepy is not a "judgement" it is a feeling
It is felt when there is an ambiguous threat.
Not an obvious threat like a guy with a knife on the street, but a gut feeling that there is something not right, danger lurks...
The urge is to flee but the threat is usually not severe enough to up tail and run, but bad enough to wish to avoid.

[mark clemson]

Ok, but it's a judgement when you're talking about something that has nothing to do with you. As in I find that older woman and young guy couple "creepy". Maybe it does make you feel weird, but it's still absolutely none of your business and not your place to say things about it.

[Miss Spider]

My most recent ex was 22 years older. The age difference itself wasn’t really an issue for us. It was mostly my friends and people we knew that were judgmental about it. I also knew if he met my parents they’d freak tf out. There were times where his age showed for sure, but I brushed it off. Also, there were times where I felt he was trying to ‘father’ me, but I’m young for my age and most of my bf’s have done that. Plus, he’s older and has more experience. It makes sense he’d want to impart some of it. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[mark clemson]

OT: Chaotic neutral, eh? You are a D&D player or similar, or is that just a "life philosophy"?

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Ok, but it's a judgement when you're talking about something that has nothing to do with you. As in I find that older woman and young guy couple "creepy". Maybe it does make you feel weird, but it's still absolutely none of your business and not your place to say things about it.

One cannot "police" feelings.
Especially such a primal instinctive feeling like being "creeped out".  

[mark clemson]

Agree. Feeling a certain way is one thing. Saying whatever happens to pop into your brain about an intergenerational couple without filtering is another. People do it all the time no doubt, but that doesn't make it right.

[PinkFlamingo]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

To be fair to OP (on his original topic). If a younger woman and older man (or vice versa) pair up and decide it works for them, that's really no one's business but theirs. "Creepy" is very much a judgement call, and judgy, and in the eye of the external beholder. I'm not sure what % of relationships are have a high age difference, but it's clearly common enough that we're talking about it here.

Single older men going after younger women is often creepy business.

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Now as for older men who "chase" younger women and give them unwanted attention - well, that's at least as bad as unwanted attention from any other guy. Definitely won't be appreciated...

No, there is still more creepiness to it, because what must be going on in the older men's mind to read something into the women's behavior? I never assume that a guy in his twenties is interested in me, it's so very unlikely. So what do these older dudes actually think? There are countries where it's acceptable that young girls marry men in their thirties, forties, and older. Even in European history at certain points it was acceptable to marry off young girls to older men. Somewhere in their twisted mind, some older men think that it's natural for them to marry young girls. And that is creppy.

[mark clemson]

 

25 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

 And that is creepy.

To you, based on your cultural assumptions. But fair enough, we all have our views. A few months ago at a theme park I saw a woman in a burka being lead around on what looked to me essentially like a leash. Didn't like that one bit. But there are women in countries that practice this that will "see the logic" of it (whatever that might be, *I* don't get it) and argue in support. Tourists...

 

25 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

There are countries where it's acceptable that young girls marry men in their thirties, forties, and older. Even in European history at certain points it was acceptable to marry off young girls to older men. Somewhere in their twisted mind, some older men think that it's natural for them to marry young girls. And that is creppy.

And in the US too in the past. In fact in some parts of the US, 16 is the age of consent so a 17 year old and a 40 year old might theoretically be possible. It might bother folks a lot, but it's legal and ultimately between them. All this illustrates my point.

If it's accepted culturally, is it "twisted"?   It works both ways in that older women can date or marry younger men too. The whole cougar thing.

Homosexuality, interracial marriage, abortions, BDSM, all are viewed as "twisted" by some folks. BJs and non-missionary position sex have both been outlawed at various times. Even masturbation has had its nay-sayers. "Twisted" is very much in the eye of beholder and not an objective fact.

Of course I have my own biases as well. Not trying to claim immunity here or anything.

Edited January 7, 2020 by mark clemson

[PinkFlamingo]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

To you, based on your cultural assumptions. But fair enough, we all have our views. A few months ago at a theme park I saw a woman in a burka being lead around on what looked to me essentially like a leash. Didn't like that one bit. But there are women in countries that practice this that will "see the logic" of it (whatever that might be, *I* don't get it) and argue in support. Tourists...

 

And in the US too in the past. In fact in some parts of the US, 16 is the age of consent so a 17 year old and a 40 year old might theoretically be possible. It might bother folks a lot, but it's legal and ultimately between them. All this illustrates my point.

If it's accepted culturally, is it "twisted"?   It works both ways in that older women can date or marry younger men too. The whole cougar thing.

Homosexuality, interracial marriage, abortions, BDSM, all are viewed as "twisted" by some folks. BJs and non-missionary position sex have both been outlawed at various times. Even masturbation has had its nay-sayers. "Twisted" is very much in the eye of beholder and not an objective fact.

Of course I have my own biases as well. Not trying to claim immunity here or anything.

Yeah, the cultural relativism, as if any sane woman really wanted to be led on a leash and was not brainwashed. Respect other cultures, blablabla. As if 12 year old girls would voluntarily choose to marry 40 year old men. 

Most women do not want a 12 year old boy. But even if we were not talking about children, most older women usually not into robbing the cradle. Most women want men their age. I know women with husbands who are 10 or more years older and while they love their husband, now that they are older, they seem a bit wistful. 

[mark clemson]

I agree about both the points you mention above. Consent is an important factor and I suspect missing in both those cases as both are essentially forced by their surrounding culture to accept the situation. Some women might consent to burka's etc, but no doubt some really hate it.

[basil67]

6 hours ago, mark clemson said:

To be fair to OP (on his original topic). If a younger woman and older man (or vice versa) pair up and decide it works for them, that's really no one's business but theirs. "Creepy" is very much a judgement call, and judgy, and in the eye of the external beholder. I'm not sure what % of relationships are have a high age difference, but it's clearly common enough that we're talking about it here.

I think you underestimate how many women value the opinion of their friends and family.   When a woman says to her friends "so what do you think?" she opens up the dialogue and will receive honest feedback.  Likewise, when a woman brings a man home, her family will have views too.   Mostly, we try and keep it to ourselves....but if things are dire, we do speak up.   Of course, a modern woman can reject all of this.  She can run away with the guy if she chooses.    But the OP doesn't want a modern woman.

 

 

[awalns]

Another scenario where I see a lot of feminine nonsense is accidental-type stuff that has happened over the years.  For example, this one girl at work who is seasonal was someone I thought was attractive and wanted to learn more about her. So I use my mobile phone to view her Social Media Profile (available to the general public BTW).  I must have accidently hit the “friend request” button because when I checked my profile later that night, I was surprise to see she accepted it. But that was "all she wrote" so to speak!  Never any “likes” even for the birthday wish, no nothing, not one comment.  And when I saw her today working in my building her demeanor matched her online activity:  FLAT! NATA! ZIP!  This was after I decided to remove her as a contact earlier in the week (I don't believe there is a link as she doesn't appear to pay attention to the online stuff; I would be shocked if she even knew I deleted her).  I saw no value in keeping her on as such.  Well as least as a bio major in college she is consistent (scientists in general love that; I know I do).  But I really don’t understand why she bothered to accept in the first place?????

[elaine567]

Some people "collect" FB friends.
They may want to appear popular by having loads of friends or they just want to have an insight into the lives of others.

OK that girl did not acknowledge you but as you initiated the friend request was it not up to you to start the conversation with her?

[Poutrew]

One of the interesting facts I read about the aftermath of the American Civil War was that many young women would go looking for old Civil War Veterans to marry. Not for love, but for pure economics. As the wife of the veteran, they would be entitled to their pension after the old guy died. Which, if the young gal had it figured right, wouldn't be too long. So for a minimal outlay of time on her part, she would be guaranteed a pension income for the rest of her life. The old Guy wasn't in the dark about his child bride's motivations though. He knew what she wanted wasn't his semi cold old body, but his fat paycheck, but he got someone who would take care of him in his twilight years...  so it worked out for both of them.  So, if a gal wants to invest a bit of her time with an older guy for a  future payout, who am I to judge? 

[awalns]

I truly believe the age difference has little if anything to do with the fact that many girls as well as society as a whole are uncomfortable with intergenerational courtships/marriages. Take me for instance.  I am very responsible, have a respectable career, impressive resume, never in trouble with the law, pay my bills, save money, take care of a home, treat people more or less equal, I don’t live on the wild side, or do drugs, am not verbally/physically abusive, or hang out at all hours of the night spending my money willy-nilly at the drop of a hat.  I think a lot of girls find that kind of life “boring” or “mundane” and that is why they would be uncomfortable with such an arrangement.  So being responsible is indeed an impediment for those still trying to work sh*@ out well into their 30’s (which is most of them).  But those who have worked it out much earlier stand to greatly benefit from such a union and those are the ones I have met and stay close to.  They know a good guy when they see it and want to have someone like this in their life

[elaine567]

Many younger women do want to see all these "responsible" traits in a husband/lover/partner, they want "a good guy", only they don't want one in his fifties. 
They like that you are responsible but that makes you a good friend, a good boss, a good coworker, a good father figure, a good grandparent... etc
They do not see you as an object of desire, a sexual partner, as you are too old and their sexual attraction for you is thus low or non existent...
 

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, awalns said:

  I am very responsible, have a respectable career, impressive resume, never in trouble with the law...

But are you attractive? Do you have the "alpha vibe" that draws women to you? Or a fun, upbeat personality that's genuinely enjoyable to be with?

It sounds like you have the basics of being a responsible husband down pat. Good for you. But those qualities aren't what gets women interested. That's the comfortable background of a "great guy". Are you a "great guy"?

You don't have to answer, but I wonder how many of these younger women you apparently are interested in have you actually had actual successful relationships with? Not friendships or "almost" but actual BF/GF situations.

There are women who favor age-appropriate relationships and there are those who don't care. So you could find one. But you have to be what they want.

If you're actually attractive and fun to be with and have good social skills, you'll get looks, attention, and interest from younger women (sometime even much younger). But you'll get that from many women - your own age too. Are you getting that?

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by mark clemson

[basil67]

On 1/10/2020 at 9:24 AM, awalns said:

Another scenario where I see a lot of feminine nonsense is accidental-type stuff that has happened over the years.  For example, this one girl at work who is seasonal was someone I thought was attractive and wanted to learn more about her. So I use my mobile phone to view her Social Media Profile (available to the general public BTW).  I must have accidently hit the “friend request” button because when I checked my profile later that night, I was surprise to see she accepted it. But that was "all she wrote" so to speak!  Never any “likes” even for the birthday wish, no nothing, not one comment. 

This isn't 'feminine nonsense'.  This is 'old person is out of touch with social media'.   Even worse, I'm older than you and about to explain it.

Being 'friends' on social media doesn't mean actual friends.   Sure, some might be actual friends, but a vast amount are simply acquaintances.   She saw a request from you, an acquaintance and accepted it because...why not?    She hasn't liked or commented on anything you've posted because it simply hasn't resonated with her.   She hasn't messaged you because you're simply an acquaintance and she's comfortable with this distance.    Either that, or due to algorithms, you don't make it onto her feed.   As for birthday wishes, there are so many of them, I only comment on my really close friends birthdays.  Everyone else's birthdays....who cares?   I recently removed my birthday from FB so that I don't get all these meaningless birthday wishes.     And you're right - she won't notice now that you've unfriended her.  

[basil67]

On 1/17/2020 at 2:08 AM, awalns said:

Take me for instance.  I am very responsible, have a respectable career, impressive resume, never in trouble with the law, pay my bills, save money,......

This is pretty much the basics of what makes a good partner.   On top of that you would need to have an emotional connection.    Thing is though, you talk about helping or guiding a young woman with your wisdom.   This doesn't make a romantic connection - rather, it's more like a father/daughter thing.   Hardly the type of thing to entice a young woman with the world at her feet.

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

On 1/18/2020 at 4:08 PM, basil67 said:

This isn't 'feminine nonsense'.  

Im gonna have to stop you there... 6 pages of this conversation and not one of you can make a coherent rebuttal on why old men dating young women is a problem...

Lets get some facts straight first: All of you arguing against this are older women. As much as we value all of your opinions, you have to understand you all have an inherent bias in this conversation... You want older men to date older women because you are all older women. 

Personally, I would prefer to hear a rebuttal from a party directly impacted by this: Young women or Old men... Not saying you shouldnt have a voice in this conversation, just saying that it sounds like y'all are a lil' too invested in this whole thing, its as if guys your own age are checking out younger women or something.