My Parents Are Trying to Seize Control of My Money! conversation reopened

[ironpony]

14 hours ago, schlumpy said:

How about doing youtube music videos for local and upcoming musicians? The script would be much easier, no special effects to worry about and they supply the material.  

Oh well, yeah maybe.  It's just that there haven't been many bands advertising for videos that I have seen where I live.  There is one band I know, since I am friends with one of the members, but I don't like mixing friendship with movie shooting, as things have gotten ugly in the past when I tried that.

 

But I can see.  The thing, I don't know much about cinematography, since I put my concentration into directing.  I can tell a cinematographer what I want but I don't know much about it myself.  So as long as I could direct and the get a separate cinematographer for the video, then it should turn out a lot better then.

[ironpony]

Another thing is, I have worked with other filmmakers and actors and I got two of them interested in the script, but they said that i keep stalling and I have to take the plunge and just do it, and stop making excuses.  They said they will help me make it but I have to stop making excuses and take the risk.  Do you think they have a point?

[d0nnivain]

Yes.   At some point you have to take concrete steps.  Yes, it's scary but that is why you need a business plan.  Don't pay somebody to create this for you.  You need to learn about your own finances.   I'm not sure about Canada but in the US we have Small Business Development Centers & something called SCORE.org where you can get FREE help with these business issues.  Find the Canadian equivalent.  If you don't' do the #s yourself you will get taken advantage of until you understand what you are looking at.  

[NuevoYorko]

I don't think you should give up your dreams; however, your parents are under no obligation to keep supporting you forever.  You need to learn how to be responsible for yourself.  

 

Most people I know of either go to film school AND get a lucky break, or work in the industry diligently to learn all the ropes and be around to take advantage or opportunities that may arise.  

 

Do you know how to make a budget for the production of a feature film?  Maybe you should get to work on that; it will help you see clearly what you have ahead of you.  

[ironpony]

Oh okay.  I have budgeted it the best I can so far, just trying to bring the budget down a lot smaller, since I was told to, as it will make the risk a lot easier that way of course.  I am just having trouble bringing it down.  Perhaps I should bring someone else on who can bring it down better.

 

I also wanted to learn as many ropes as I could but I was told by other filmmakers I've worked with that that's my problem, and I won't advance if I keep trying to be a jack of all trades.  They said I should stick to do directing, and that's it, and keep working on that if I want to get really good at it.  Are they right and learning as many ropes can be slowing me down?

[NuevoYorko]

Exactly what is your directing experience up to this point?  Please be specific.  

[schlumpy]

Have you done anything to incorporate yourself as a small business? There are tax advantages to doing that although you would need to talk to an accountant to realize them all. You might be able to get your parents to quit fussing if you put your savings into and IRA or 401K (or Canadian equivalent.) Doing something responsible with the money that has a real return on investment (ROI) may just allay their fears.

 

Here in the states the limit of an IRA contribution is six thousand dollars for a single individual under 50. Drop six in this month and six into your new account in January. That will give you a nice start with 12k and you can get a tax deduction (or at least you could if you were in the States) for this year and for next year. If you are self employed then a 401K is more apt vehicle with larger contribution limits.

 

Don't go the advisor route because the fees will eat up your returns. Use a company like Vanguard that has wide selection of mutual funds and other investment vehicles.

 

I have owned some Canadian pipeline stock in the past and it worked out well for me. 

[ironpony]

I've done a few things like that with my money and was able to make a few thousand dollars back so far, yes.

 

I've directed a few short films so far, as far as experience goes.  But also have gotten other shoots for experience, as well as reading directing books.

[Mr. Lucky]

On 12/11/2019 at 10:47 AM, ironpony said:

Perhaps I should hire a budgeting person that can figure this out for me, how to shoot for that much less, if possible.

You should hire someone you can’t afford to help you make a film you don’t have the funds for?

 

My friend, you don’t have the artistic or business experience to pull this off, no shame given your limited CV.

 

Why not work in the audio side of the business for 10 years, keep your eyes and ears open and grow your wallet, network and knowledge base?

 

Mr. Lucky 

[ironpony]

Oh okay, but I thought that's what I have been doing for the last 10 years.  I've saved money and gotten to know more people in the community.  Isn't that what I have been doing?  Who says I can't afford it?

Edited December 15, 2019 by ironpony

[basil67]

The fact that you've been losing sleep over your spending on this says you can't afford it

[Mr. Lucky]

The next step would be a move to a city with large scale film production - Toronto, Vancouver, LA, etc. - and establish your credentials there. Get some experience with both independent and studio companies on a variety of projects.  You’re not going to jump from YouTube to Netflix...

 

Mr. Lucky 

[elaine567]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Lucky said:

The next step would be a move to a city with large scale film production - Toronto, Vancouver, LA, etc. 

BUT Ironpony just lost his job in an outdoor warehouse.
He is 36, he has never lived alone, he is on the spectrum.
He has had some temporary film work, but no actual job in the industry.
His Youtube videos/films were not seen  by many people.
How is he going to make a living in a big city?

[ironpony]

Well the thing about living in Vancouver is, where a lot more movies are made is, it that the cost living is so much higher, I haven't been able to figure out how to afford it, unless I get a job that can pay extremely high while working to try to get into movies.  My parents said that moving to Vancouver would actually be a worse idea than making a feature a film, cause all my savings would be eaten up in two years, unless I found a very high paying job though.  Do you think they are right on that and moving to such a costly city is the riskier move, unless I find such a job there?

 

I was also told by filmmakers I have worked with before, is that in Vancouver, there is so much competition that I would have to work my way up a lot more, and movies cost so much more to make there, cause of all the permits and insurance laws, there that want to make money; where as here, I am ready higher up in the game they said by comparison, and already have a community of some connects of people to work with over and over again.  Do they have a point?

Edited December 15, 2019 by ironpony

[Ellener]

If you are keeping yourself and paying for your projects yourself and no wife/children to consider then it's no one else's business.

 

If I wanted to 'break into' that field I would live somewhere I could volunteer/work in it or close to it, learn to budget and cut my finances to the absolutest minimum, have no debts and save up to be in a financial position to prioritize what I want to do/take a time out, and seek support from people who understand and have lived their dream themself or who will maybe mentor others who have a similar talent and passion. Maybe someone like the in-demand AD guy needs a cover person sometimes.

 

When I became a musician people said negative things to me, and then when I did it for years it became 'you won't be able to do this forever...' I just listen and take out the truth of what people say then ignore the rest. They were right, I won't want to sing when my voice is faded with age, so I transitioned the business into more comedy and more therapeutic music and now I'm writing a book on the effect of music on memory loss diseases. 

 

Be prepared to have a life of side gigs to pay the bills, but be open minded about what you learn there too. I took a job in a gift shop as a stressless income stream for the summer, and it's made me tons of contacts and new friends and the owner has taught me all she knows about selling!

 

I don't know about making a feature film, but there is inexpensive software to make animated shorts for example?
Using software I spent a year once writing and recording a CD of classical music, it never lead to a career writing film music or sold many copies but it is something I am proud of and brought me a lot of joy and fulfillment.

Family aren't always the most supportive, I remember asking my sister if she'd like it hear it: 'no!' and change of subject. She isn't interested in the memory loss book I'm writing today, so we just don't talk about such things! even though ironically she's a Parkinson's Disease specialist and you'd think we'd have a lot to discuss professionally.

 

'It is what it is' people say in Texas.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

[clia]

You're asking a bunch of people on a web site aimed at love advice for very specific advice about breaking into the film industry.  That tells me all I need to know.  You should listen to advice you are given from people who are actually in the industry and who are familiar with your work and go from there.  

[JoeyArnold]

On 12/11/2019 at 1:39 AM, ironpony said:

what can I do to make them see that it may be a necessary risk?

 

 

Invisible

Nothing. You can't really get people to see what you see.

 

Risky

The film industry is risky.

 

Changing Landscapes

Also, the film landscape has been changing. In the 2010's, we have seen Star Wars start a YouTube channel. They began uploading trailers to YouTube. People have been uploading their films and their shows to YouTube, Vimeo, Bitchute, etc. You can find Fuller House on Netflix.

 

Gradual

So, I say that to say that you should try to take it a step at a time. It depends on many different things.

 

Patient

But the general rule is to gradually work your way up towards bigger projects, different jobs, more work, and everything. Also, accept failure as well. But don't be lazy at the same time. Anything can happen. It can be over night or it may never happen.

 

Be Ready

So, you have to always be ready for the best and for the worst. So, only spend as much money as you are willing to lose. Sometimes, people make films and they lose money. In 2019, they made the Joker film for like several millions of dollars and Joker went on to make over a billion dollars. Star Wars Solo, however, lost money. That is right, Disney lost some money with that Han Solo movie. Should you be a director before you try to produce? Maybe. But you don't have to. Why? Because each person is different perhaps. There can be exceptions to the advice you may get from people. So, keep an open mind. Always network with people. Stay in contact with people as you may never know when they can come in handy, especially if you are a producer right now or potentially.

 

Hollywood Oatmeal

Just kidding. I'm not in Hollywood but I made a parody Power Rangers film with family and friends right before my eleventh birthday in 1996 in Oregon. Since then, I've made other videos. I say that to say that I know that people can call you crazy. People try to take control of your money. They may think they know better than you. Maybe they do or maybe they don't. But you need to determine your priorities between maintaining your relationship with family with your career, with filmmaking, producing, directing, in story telling, etc.

Edited December 17, 2019 by JoeyArnold

[ironpony]

On 12/16/2019 at 11:34 AM, clia said:

You're asking a bunch of people on a web site aimed at love advice for very specific advice about breaking into the film industry.  That tells me all I need to know.  You should listen to advice you are given from people who are actually in the industry and who are familiar with your work and go from there.  

 

Oh well the filmmakers I have worked under, which are two so far, have told me that I need to believe in myself and I need to have more confidence when it comes to making a feature film to break in.

 

One of them also said I am at a higher advantage than most filmmakers since I have the money to do it, where others have to get funding from other sources, and those sources cause one to have limitations put on them by the funders, where as I can direct it as I want with no limitations, if I use my money.  So they both seemed more optimistic about it.

[Watercolors]

On 12/13/2019 at 10:59 AM, ironpony said:

Oh okay.  I have budgeted it the best I can so far, just trying to bring the budget down a lot smaller, since I was told to, as it will make the risk a lot easier that way of course.  I am just having trouble bringing it down.  Perhaps I should bring someone else on who can bring it down better.

 

I also wanted to learn as many ropes as I could but I was told by other filmmakers I've worked with that that's my problem, and I won't advance if I keep trying to be a jack of all trades.  They said I should stick to do directing, and that's it, and keep working on that if I want to get really good at it.  Are they right and learning as many ropes can be slowing me down?

 

Do you know the role of a 'line producer?' They are the person the director hires to create a budget and shooting production schedule for the film. You should hire someone to freelance as your movie's 'line producer.' 

[ironpony]

Oh yeah, I was planning on doing that for sure.

[ironpony]

I wanted to get into the filmmaking business, and was going to make my own feature film to try to break in before. However, it does cost quite a bit of money and I am under a lot of pressure because of it.

I want to give another shot at making a feature film when covid gets better, perhaps next year, but I feel that it's going to turn out bad, especially when people you know are saying "you don't have what it takes to make a movie", "It will be a total waste of money", "You haven't made anything yet that turned out well". etc.  I talked about it on another thread before:
 

I went to a therapist to talk about it and he said if I don't do it, I am going to keep looking back and wondering what if, and keep regretting it, if I don't. So he says go for it.

But now people who have been trying to talk me out of it, are saying that therapist is irresponsible, that I have to take such a big risk with my money like this. What do you think? Should I see someone else?

[Acacia98]

33 minutes ago, ironpony said:

I wanted to get into the filmmaking business, and was going to make my own feature film to try to break in before. However, it does cost quite a bit of money and I am under a lot of pressure because of it.

I want to give another shot at making a feature film when covid gets better, perhaps next year, but I feel that it's going to turn out bad, especially when people you know are saying "you don't have what it takes to make a movie", "It will be a total waste of money", "You haven't made anything yet that turned out well". etc.  I talked about it on another thread before:
 

I went to a therapist to talk about it and he said if I don't do it, I am going to keep looking back and wondering what if, and keep regretting it, if I don't. So he says go for it.

But now people who have been trying to talk me out of it, are saying that therapist is irresponsible, that I have to take such a big risk with my money like this. What do you think? Should I see someone else?

The therapist may have encouraged you to follow your passion, but he didn't guarantee you'd be a huge financial success (I imagine). He didn't guarantee that it would end well. No one can guarantee that. Not even you. Sometimes people pursue their dreams and succeed. Sometimes they pursue them and fail.

I don't know if he's a good therapist. But I think he's right about the fact that, if you're passionate about something and you don't do what you can to pursue it, you could spend the rest of your life knee-deep in regret.

Now, having said that, it's important for you to take full ownership of your dream. I think that means that, ideally, you should not seek affirmation from the people around you, including your therapist, that you're doing the right thing. That affirmation should come from deep within you. Also, you should weigh the risks and benefits and figure out how far you're willing to go and how much you're willing to spend to pursue your dream. If there are real financial constraints, then you should take them into consideration. If there are other disadvantages, you should decide for yourself whether you're willing to live with them. And once you have decided to live with them, then they are your responsibility. You don't get to blame other people for pushing you in the "wrong" direction. That's just how life works out. You have to take responsibility for the choices you make consciously.

[snowboy91]

The people you know who are trying to talk you out of it are trying to look out for you... but through their lens. Which is presumably one of valuing financial security.

You sound really passionate about what you want to do with your filmmaking, to the point that you would always regret not taking that chance, and that you would accept failure if you really enjoyed chasing that dream. Which is the lens you, and your therapist, seem to be viewing the situation.

It's essentially down to you living according to what you value rather than what those around you do. There's no point being the richest man in the cemetery, so if you want to follow that passion then go for it.

[Amethyst68]

I know a couple of people who work in the industry and who have won breakthrough awards for their work (not in the US). They both did it while working (that's how I knew them) and filming around their work schedule.

Rather than full length features they both went the short film route. Easier to plan, shoot and of course less expensive. Maybe that's something you could consider. 

[ironpony]

Oh okay thanks, I've made a couple of short films so far, but wanted to use the rest of my money for a feature.  I was told by people I have worked with on feature films before, that features are a much better guarantee to get in rather than shorts, if they are right.