Even the ex is confused

[hotpotato]

My ex who dumped me ran out of ideas as to why I've been dumped so much. He said I wasn't talkative (in a very mean way) and that I'm not nurturing. As far as nurturing, most of the things he recommended I've already done. He said I never cooked for him. That's true, but I cooked for other guys. I did it so much that I lost my love of baking. I started to associated baking and rejection. Since I stopped dealing with men, it came back full force. Really, if I got good enough, it could be a business. Also, I doubt I'll be nurturing at this point. He didn't catch me when I was 20 and hadn't been through much. I don't think it's fair to compare me to a 20 year old young woman who just started dating.

 

I think my relationship issues are deeper than most of the advice people try to give. Now it's more complicated now that I've been through so much. I learned some hard lessons quickly. 

 

I've been single for almost 4 years, and that's that. I had a ons, and he said I seemed done with men & relationships. I'd agree. I feel like if I dated someone, I'd leave for something very minor or for no reason at all. I got tired of being the one in the relationship who wants to talk and work things out. Men see my faults and leave. 

 

I have thought about some of the advice I've been given here. One person told me not to torpedo a guy because he came at me sexually. Honestly, Im not extremely attracted to most men in that way. Most men don't light my fire in a strictly sexual way. They try to come at me aggressively and that makes me look at them objectively. Also, I don't believe in trying to make a man feel a certain way. If a man is presenting to me in a certain way, how much can I change his mind? I don't believe in hand wringing, trying to make a man get to know me. A man has to show me that he wants to get to know me.

 

I'm a hardcore loner. I'm very introverted. Maybe I spent too much time alone over the years.

[preraph]

I mean everybody has their own style of nurturing but I think the guy who's whining about wanting nurturing and cooking sounds more like someone who needs to go back home to Mommy. I certainly wasn't well-known for being a nurturing girlfriend in the classic sense that you would think about it, but I was very supportive about their careers and passions, and that's my way of nurturing, not sitting around babying him like their mom. 

 

It's always nice if you cook some, but no one should rely on you doing it. I went through most of my dating years not cooking anything or anyone except breakfast because I didn't have money or enough pots and pans to make big dinners for myself or for them. Once I did have the money to do that, I did.

 

Everyone is different. there's just no reason to bend over backward to get a man if it's not way up top on your priority list. Obviously if someone wants a family it would probably be best to try to find a man you could live with. 

 

Not all men are going to demand the same thing as this last one did. Some of mine were actually more interested in me as a person and intellectually and we shared a common love of music. There was one who wanted someone more conventional. And he wanted a family. He married the first woman to had had cooking lessons the best I can tell, and he ignored that she was a psycho in every other way. Within three years she had cheated on him. Then another friend of mine knocked her up and married her and she eventually ended up in prison for stealing people's credit cards and identities. 

 

There's all kinds of people and there's all kinds of men. For you to find an actual match, there is just no reason to go faking that you're someone you're not. You'll either find someone who's more of a match or you won't. You sound like you're happy enough on your own like I am. frankly for me now that I'm older it's just been a relief to not be falling in love with guys and getting anxious and hurt all the time. And ultimately disappointed. 

that said if you find someone who's close to what you want that you think would work for you you need to make some compromises to stay together, that's the time to do it. 

[chillii]

Nah not at all , he may've just meant warmth and femininely , caring , a woman loves the male versions of all the same stuff, doesn't mean she needs a daddy, but some people just don't put that type of thing out and it's a real turn off.

But l can understand how op has just been so discouraged with the run she's had and just doesn't bother.

And yeah . everyones different though none the less and so many things where people are having troubles just come down to meeting and being with the right person when you just match and fit and things just come natural to you both. You just naturally and comfortably treat each other and just get along and just do things in the ways you both just like, your just into each other.

There's always things but mostly l mean.

 

This stuff is rare and hard to find but it seems some either just don't understand it and so just don't know what to look for and just go on getting involved with all the wrong people  or else they just don't seem to get lucky enough to just come across it at some point.

So it's a really hard one to be of much help with but all l can really suggest is be more careful more selective before you even bother getting involved with someone . They need to be very special and to be things like the stuff above to each other.  But when you do meet them , it needs to be nourished and built on , we've all had our crap but you really don't have much choice but to slowly start to invest in it when things are right as you start to trust it and if all is mutual  , run that risk take that chance and give it a try. Holding back tpo much will just kill it before it even starts, but going at it too much too early just gets you into trouble too, it's a slow and steady type thing where you go by what your both feeling and giving.

But l know , that isn't easy when you've had such a bad run .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by chillii

[Foxhall]

You need to meet a man who will ignite some passion in you,

 

perhaps someone who would have an interest in establishing a baking business, 

 

you could attend some health talks, keep an eye out for healthy food types who might be interested in gluten free baking or something,

 

attend some courses aimed as helping start a business,

 

get into circles where you could meet guys with whom you have things in common.

 

 

 

 

[RecentChange]

Hot potato.... From reading your posts over the years the picture I have gotten is....

 

At one point at least you had low self esteem and chased men who were quite terrible to you. Clung to toxic relationships etc.

 

From that you have developed a large amount of baggage and now stay aloof etc.

 

You cooked for other men - and those relationships didn't work out. So now you are so bitter about it you don't enjoy baking any more, and never cooked for your most recent boy friend?

 

Punishing current love interests for the failings of other men you have previously invited into your life will never work.

 

Taking a relationship to the next level (rather than "dumped") involves a certain amount of vulnerability. But I get the feeling that because you have been involved with so many crappy guys that you are now completely closed off and not willing to open yourself up to anyone.

 

Not that I am sure that the most recent guy you dated deserves you, and is worthy of your vulnerability....

 

But unless things change within you - and I am not talking about being extroverted - these patterns will continue to repeat. 

[mark clemson]

Are you ok with being by yourself? Some people are fine with it while others wish that had someone. Which are you?

 

If you DO desire a male companion and your personal psychology/interaction style is part of the issue preventing it, have you considered IC to work through those issues?

[hotpotato]

On 12/11/2019 at 6:44 PM, RecentChange said:

Hot potato.... From reading your posts over the years the picture I have gotten is....

 

At one point at least you had low self esteem and chased men who were quite terrible to you. Clung to toxic relationships etc.

 

From that you have developed a large amount of baggage and now stay aloof etc.

 

You cooked for other men - and those relationships didn't work out. So now you are so bitter about it you don't enjoy baking any more, and never cooked for your most recent boy friend?

 

Punishing current love interests for the failings of other men you have previously invited into your life will never work.

 

Taking a relationship to the next level (rather than "dumped") involves a certain amount of vulnerability. But I get the feeling that because you have been involved with so many crappy guys that you are now completely closed off and not willing to open yourself up to anyone.

 

Not that I am sure that the most recent guy you dated deserves you, and is worthy of your vulnerability....

 

But unless things change within you - and I am not talking about being extroverted - these patterns will continue to repeat. 

I would say yes to that, pretty much. 

 

As far as baking, I know it sounds silly, but I think I emotionally connected baking and being dumped. 

 

I agree that punishing a guy for the actions of someone else wont work. 

[preraph]

How about you get over that by only baking for yourself for a while.  

[Ellener]

'Most men don't light my fire in a strictly sexual way. They try to come at me aggressively and that makes me look at them objectively.'

 

It's not just you.

 

I was in the park this morning perfectly happy with solitude and a cute guy came over, fussed the dog and made small talk. I do admire a man, a person, who will initiate contact and be friendly. He said 'would you like to go for a run?' and I smiled and said 'not today'. Then he seemed annoyed and said 'why not?' and it felt aggressive and not so attractive. If he'd smiled and said 'another time?' I would have chatted longer, given him my number maybe, but I have no time for another person's irritation or demanding. So when you say ' I feel like if I dated someone, I'd leave for something very minor or for no reason at all.' well I wouldn't even get that far! unless someone shows they are initially worth nurturing the connection. It's too much compromise too soon and I've learned from experience such a relationship won't work for me anyway, and that's it's a positive rather than negative not to pursue.

 

 

 

 

[hotpotato]

On 12/11/2019 at 11:17 PM, mark clemson said:

Are you ok with being by yourself? Some people are fine with it while others wish that had someone. Which are you?

 

If you DO desire a male companion and your personal psychology/interaction style is part of the issue preventing it, have you considered IC to work through those issues?

I'm perfectly fine on my own. 

 

What is ic work?

[JoeyArnold]

On 12/15/2019 at 9:18 PM, Ellener said:

Then he seemed annoyed and said 'why not?'

 

Smooth Operator

My younger self would be tempted to ask that same question in that kind of situation.

 

Smooth Criminal

I would have said it with a smile on my face, in a curious way. Some people have described me as a smooth operator or a smooth criminal haha. But seriously speaking, I've came across as too negative, annoyed, aggressive, etc, in life, in conversations, as well, sometimes.

 

Frozen: Let It Go

I'm 34 years old now and I've been trying to learn how to be less scary to people who don't know me. In other words, I've been the opposite of shy at times.

 

Shy & Not Shy

Now, I can be shy. I can feel shy. But sometimes, I can turn something inside of me on. But it can be perhaps too aggressive. Looking back in reflection upon my life, I can better understand different perspectives. Of course, I wasn't trying to come across as hostile. But I probably was maybe a toxic white alpha male at times.

 

Walking Dead Beta

As I get older, I sometimes am guilty of being too beta at times as I try to counter my former self.

 

Oatmeal Jogging

If I asked you out for a jog and you said no like you said, then, my current self would probably smile and nod.

 

Silent Perhaps

I may not even say anything after that.

 

Body Language Art

I may watch your body language to see if you still wanted to talk or not. If you were still interested, I might even sit down and continue the conversation. I might ask for your name. But I would probably begin to slowly walk away as soon as it was time, eventually, if you were perhaps busy or if you were losing interest or whatever. But I'm not saying I'm an expert in understanding body language and everything haha. But I would at least look for nonverbal cues. I would probably try not too hard to  ask the "Why Not" question. I love asking questions. So, I love WHY NOT questions. For example, if Trump were to not stop censorship, I might yell, "YO TRUMP, WHY NOT, WTF?" I'm not trying to be political.

 

Debate

But I love debate. But some people may not be comfortable with constant and excessive debate. I love debate. But it is crucial to know what kinds of people you are talking to. And different people can be different lol.

 

Common Sense 101

I mean, Common Sense 101, right? I can be crazy, I know. I call myself the Original Green Oatmeal Joey Arnold. Huh, WTF is that all about? Well, I like oatmeal. I eat oatmeal. You are what you eat.

 

Try Not to Scare Away New People

But, when you meet new people, they may not be ready to handle that. So, tread lightly as they say haha. Be patient with new people. Be gradual. Be calm perhaps. And Be a Cool Kid if you can.

Edited December 17, 2019 by JoeyArnold

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, hotpotato said:

What is ic work?

 

Individual counseling (as opposed to MC).

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

One of the titles that modern women are choosing to adopt is "Ethically Non-Monogamous"... Simply put, most first-world women see more value in themselves when they are single or at the very minimum, available. Women who are available, are unquestionably treated differently by men than women who are not. 

 

To me, as a man, what Ethically Non-Monogamous means is the man with the most resources, gets her time today and tomorrow is a new day. I mean, for a woman who does not want children, has her financial life somewhat together, I do not see why they would do anything other than be this way, unless they feel social pressures to be Monogamous, but overall, I feel women, especially young women, have more to gain socially, financially and any other faucet, by being non-monogamous as opposed to monogamous.

 

Do I date with women who are EnM? No, I do not, but I know there are lots of women looking to maximize their personal value and feel this is one of the better ways to do it.

[thefooloftheyear]

There's nothing wrong with you...You are just a harder nut to crack, so to speak....I can relate....Stay who you are and don't change..

 

TFY

[hotpotato]

On 12/14/2019 at 8:36 PM, preraph said:

How about you get over that by only baking for yourself for a while.  

I have been, and it's been fabulous. 

On 12/17/2019 at 9:16 PM, mark clemson said:

 

Individual counseling (as opposed to MC).

Yes, I'd consider it. I think I'd need cbt or something like that. I almost have a phobia at this point. 

[hotpotato]

On 12/17/2019 at 9:41 PM, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

One of the titles that modern women are choosing to adopt is "Ethically Non-Monogamous"... Simply put, most first-world women see more value in themselves when they are single or at the very minimum, available. Women who are available, are unquestionably treated differently by men than women who are not. 

 

To me, as a man, what Ethically Non-Monogamous means is the man with the most resources, gets her time today and tomorrow is a new day. I mean, for a woman who does not want children, has her financial life somewhat together, I do not see why they would do anything other than be this way, unless they feel social pressures to be Monogamous, but overall, I feel women, especially young women, have more to gain socially, financially and any other faucet, by being non-monogamous as opposed to monogamous.

 

Do I date with women who are EnM? No, I do not, but I know there are lots of women looking to maximize their personal value and feel this is one of the better ways to do it.

So in other words, you dont like when women act like bachelors & explore their options. Women no longer need men the way they used to. 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

8 hours ago, hotpotato said:

So in other words, you dont like when women act like bachelors & explore their options. Women no longer need men the way they used to. 

 

Why you would use other words? Read what I posted.

[hotpotato]

On 12/14/2019 at 7:36 PM, preraph said:

How about you get over that by only baking for yourself for a while.  

I have been baking for myself and my family, and it's been going very well.

 

On 12/20/2019 at 2:28 PM, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

 

Why you would use other words? Read what I posted.

I think if men as a whole have a problem with it women not being monogamous, then men need to step their game up by a wide margin.

Since Im not trying to have kids, I don't have any benefits of being with a man, except maybe that second income.

In fact, it feels like I gave up mostly negative things. I don't have to worry about a guy leaving me alone in bed to go watch porn. I don't worry about domestic violence or cheating. I sleep very well at night. I don't have to date down as far as looks in the name of love. Many women are dating down as far as looks, and I've already btdt. Straight men as a whole are not going to adopt a fitness regimen. Straight men have some incredible self esteem. The other day an 85 year old man tried to holla at me, and he was sooo sure of himself. That's an extreme example, but not uncommon with straight men. Most men I wouldn't even want for sex as they are not physically my type. I'm not going clubbing, Im not forcing myself 'out there,' so that's that I suppose. I want someone who into fitness as well, which is asking a lot from average straight man. Now gay men are much more likely to be in shape. 

 

Men don't generally demand commitment or romance or hell even liking them as a person in exchange for sex so that makes it even easier to move from guy to guy sexually, if I wanted to.

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

5 hours ago, hotpotato said:

I think if men as a whole have a problem with it women not being monogamous, then men need to step their game up by a wide margin.

Since Im not trying to have kids, I don't have any benefits of being with a man, except maybe that second income.

In fact, it feels like I gave up mostly negative things. I don't have to worry about a guy leaving me alone in bed to go watch porn. I don't worry about domestic violence or cheating. I sleep very well at night. I don't have to date down as far as looks in the name of love. Many women are dating down as far as looks, and I've already btdt. Straight men as a whole are not going to adopt a fitness regimen. Straight men have some incredible self esteem. The other day an 85 year old man tried to holla at me, and he was sooo sure of himself. That's an extreme example, but not uncommon with straight men. Most men I wouldn't even want for sex as they are not physically my type. I'm not going clubbing, Im not forcing myself 'out there,' so that's that I suppose. I want someone who into fitness as well, which is asking a lot from average straight man. Now gay men are much more likely to be in shape. 

 

Men don't generally demand commitment or romance or hell even liking them as a person in exchange for sex so that makes it even easier to move from guy to guy sexually, if I wanted to.

 

Here is the thing though: Men's self esteem has not been eroded by social media. Like for example, all these magazines that praise the plus size women who are over weight and even have a fitness regime and are still over weight... Like being over weight is not only usually unattractive, it is extremely unhealthy and overall just a negative lifestyle to have, yet if somebody points this out, they are saw as somebody who is being mean or a bully... Where as men, you can give us pointers and sometimes we take them, sometimes we don't. but either way we don't have this option to just opt out of the conversation because our feelings are hurt and as a result, make you look bad, it just doesn't work that way.

 

Men don't fool themselves into believing that getting into fitness is going to afford us something stable and concrete, that is ridiculous, finance will always be the #1 status indicator among men, period. As a woman, you have a cushion, a bubble, when we speak about finance, that men just do not have in this gynocentric society... But to suggest that being physically fit or possessing any other trait will be a whole substitute for a measure of finance, especially when you have a higher quality of life than your competitors, like as a man, that conversation is trivial at best. YOU, as a woman, can have that conversation and have it be applicable to you, because you have your bubble, your cushion, but for men, the conversation is just silly.

 

The reason I say I don't like to date these women is because their loyalties are to the cushion, to the bubble, not to me. Their loyalties lay in the fact that if she brings up sex, its all good, but if I bring up sex, its a problem. If she asks me to pay, thats fine, but if I ask her to pay, its an absolute travesty.

 

As a man, I am not loyal to some social construct, I am loyal to my time. My time affords me finance, my time affords me dates, my time affords me everything I have owned, own and will own; to suggest that I will give this time away to an individual that is no more loyal than the topic of conversation is silly... The fact that this is an EXPECTATION of me, is actually scary.

[hotpotato]

22 hours ago, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

 

Here is the thing though: Men's self esteem has not been eroded by social media. Like for example, all these magazines that praise the plus size women who are over weight and even have a fitness regime and are still over weight... Like being over weight is not only usually unattractive, it is extremely unhealthy and overall just a negative lifestyle to have, yet if somebody points this out, they are saw as somebody who is being mean or a bully... Where as men, you can give us pointers and sometimes we take them, sometimes we don't. but either way we don't have this option to just opt out of the conversation because our feelings are hurt and as a result, make you look bad, it just doesn't work that way.

 

Men don't fool themselves into believing that getting into fitness is going to afford us something stable and concrete, that is ridiculous, finance will always be the #1 status indicator among men, period. As a woman, you have a cushion, a bubble, when we speak about finance, that men just do not have in this gynocentric society... But to suggest that being physically fit or possessing any other trait will be a whole substitute for a measure of finance, especially when you have a higher quality of life than your competitors, like as a man, that conversation is trivial at best. YOU, as a woman, can have that conversation and have it be applicable to you, because you have your bubble, your cushion, but for men, the conversation is just silly.

 

The reason I say I don't like to date these women is because their loyalties are to the cushion, to the bubble, not to me. Their loyalties lay in the fact that if she brings up sex, its all good, but if I bring up sex, its a problem. If she asks me to pay, thats fine, but if I ask her to pay, its an absolute travesty.

 

As a man, I am not loyal to some social construct, I am loyal to my time. My time affords me finance, my time affords me dates, my time affords me everything I have owned, own and will own; to suggest that I will give this time away to an individual that is no more loyal than the topic of conversation is silly... The fact that this is an EXPECTATION of me, is actually scary.

I think men have higher self esteem because women don't put them down as much for their looks. I think a lot of women out there are way too forgiving, hence the pretty, thin woman with the obese man.

 

Fitness is something one should do for themselves. A man can be fit, attractive, and make good money. It's not an either or. Also, I very much doubt every overweight guy I've seen is making bank. For the average man, is not spending all his hours running a corporation. 

 

As far as loyalty, no one can expect that in the beginning. I could say something very similar about men. In my experience men are not sexually loyal. I could say something similar that most men are trying to bang as many women as possible instead of being monogamous. Then when you're serious, they're still on the prowl.

 

I'm the type of girl who pays for dates sometimes. With the last ex I paid $100 for our second or third date, which is way more money than he had spent on our first date. I think dates should be cheap or free especially in the beginning. 

 

IMo the way men bring up sex is the problem, and it's a lot like treating a woman like a piece of meat. Yes, many women will get tired of thinks like unsolicited pics of the junk, pushing for sex early paired with minimal efforts to get to know her. Many men come across as impatient and lazy.

[hotpotato]

16 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

I think men have higher self esteem because women don't put them down as much for their looks. I think a lot of women out there are way too forgiving, hence the pretty, thin woman with the obese man.

 

Fitness is something one should do for themselves. A man can be fit, attractive, and make good money. It's not an either or. Also, I very much doubt every overweight guy I've seen is making bank. For the average man, is not spending all his hours running a corporation. 

 

As far as loyalty, no one can expect that in the beginning. I could say something very similar about men. In my experience men are not sexually loyal. I could say something similar that most men are trying to bang as many women as possible instead of being monogamous. Then when you're serious, they're still on the prowl.

 

I'm the type of girl who pays for dates sometimes. With the last ex I paid $100 for our second or third date, which is way more money than he had spent on our first date. I think dates should be cheap or free especially in the beginning. 

 

IMo the way men bring up sex is the problem, and it's a lot like treating a woman like a piece of meat. Yes, many women will get tired of thinks like unsolicited pics of the junk, pushing for sex early paired with minimal efforts to get to know her. Many men come across as impatient and lazy.

You also forget that women experience the negative consequences of sex. If a woman is sensitive about who she has sex with, it's her right. When men start having babies, let me know. Until then, women are bearing each and every child.

 

Birth control isn't 100%, and condoms can and go break. Women tend to have more fear of STDs. Plenty of women and up in predicaments bc they weren't thoughtful about who they had sex with.