I think I've been alone for too long and it's made me unable to even start a relationship

[Luke Cage]

Venting, will take anything anyone has to offer.

I've posted a few times here before and I appreciate the advice that was given but it's really hitting me that I've been alone for too long in life and it's directly impacting my ability to interact in the world. Forming relationships is a skill that never developed with me. I just don't get it. I don't get flirting, I don't get 'game', I don't get reading body language, it's all completely arbitrary and varies from person to person. Hell, it's not even consistent with the same person and feels like throwing s*** at the wall until something sticks.

Whenever I confide in anyone about this, it's always 'just get out more' , 'put yourself out there' 'what do you have to lose' and it just frustrates me because I can't make that work. I am almost 40 years old and spent 25+ years facing rejection, humiliation, and social exclusion. At this point with my life experiences you are telling me to touch a hot stove and keep my hand there . I'm supposed to work on myself, better myself, travel, develop skills,  nurture talents, live an interesting life and be a good person. And that is good advice in general, I am always up for self improvement , but that isn't getting me any closer to a date (which I've never had before).  And I see plenty of couples where the men are fat, lazy, stupid, bigoted, hateful, talent less, abusive people who don't travel, squander their money, have no goals and are just aimlessly walking through life in a miserable state, but they have a mate. So I don't think that this is my problem and again, I'm firmly in support of self improvement because that is important for me.

 

I'm not being facetious or exaggerating when I say I don't understand the 'secret' to attraction. I don't know what it looks like, I don't know how it feels and I feel like I'm almost conditioned to remove myself asap from these situations because I must be reading it wrong and to save myself from  another round of rejection. That's what over a quarter century of failure will do to you.

 

 

[alphamale]

dude you need professional help, you need to see a therapist who specializes in this area.  hopefully they can help you out

[GeorgiaPeach1]

Is it possible you are seeking partners who are way out of your league? There are a lot of Plain Janes who are decent women and want healthy relationships.

[preraph]

1 hour ago, Luke Cage said:

 And I see plenty of couples where the men are fat, lazy, stupid, bigoted, hateful, talent less, abusive people who don't travel, squander their money, have no goals and are just aimlessly walking through life in a miserable state, but they have a mate. 

 

Because they're fat, lazy, stupid, bigoted, hateful, talentless, abusive men who aren't afraid to talk to a woman or get out and meet them.  

[Piddy]

I agree you need professional help.  Confidence can make up for a lot and you have zero confidence.  And there is no secret to attraction it's either there or it isn't.   

[RecentChange]

Do you find it easy to make male friendships?

 

Has anyone ever suggested that you might be on the autism spectrum?

 

For many of us, body language isn't arbitrary, but I can understand how it may seem that way to someone who struggles with it.

 

I often equate it to a second language. English for example doesn't make a ton of sense - to be proficient in it, you either had to grow up a native speaker - or out serious work into learning it.

 

I feel body language is the same way. Sounds like you might not be a "native speaker" so you are losing a lot in translation. Kinda like being thrust into a foreign country and not knowing the language.

 

Any way, that's my hunch.

[Luke Cage]

"Do you find it easy to make male friendships?"

Not really. I don't get along with or have much interest in most people I meet in general.

 

"Has anyone ever suggested that you might be on the autism spectrum?"

All the time, usually as an insult. If I am autistic I must be on a spectrum outside of this universe because the people I know who do have it don't have nearly as severe an issue as I do.

 

"For many of us, body language isn't arbitrary, but I can understand how it may seem that way to someone who struggles with it."

Is there any sort of universal standard for body language? Because it honestly changes from person to person and region from my experiences.

 

 

[preraph]

I just wonder if you're really not interested in people why you even care if you meet a woman or not. Doesn't sound like it's going to be something that will work for you. 

[RecentChange]

38 minutes ago, Luke Cage said:

"Do you find it easy to make male friendships?"

Not really. I don't get along with or have much interest in most people I meet in general.

 

"Has anyone ever suggested that you might be on the autism spectrum?"

All the time, usually as an insult. If I am autistic I must be on a spectrum outside of this universe because the people I know who do have it don't have nearly as severe an issue as I do.

 

"For many of us, body language isn't arbitrary, but I can understand how it may seem that way to someone who struggles with it."

Is there any sort of universal standard for body language? Because it honestly changes from person to person and region from my experiences.

 

 

 

No, there isn't any sort of universal standard - just like language has regional accents and dialects, so does body language - but in some ways it's also a universal language. Many can understand it even if they are not totally familiar with a particular "dialect". If I meet someone that doesn't speak a lick of English (and I don't know their language) - I still have a chance at communicating with them non verbally. Facial expressions etc can convey more than words. 

 

For example I work with horses. Horses do not understand English, but they are very astute to body language and read it well - a good horse trainer learns how to read the body language the horse is speaking back to the human  Personally I struggle with dyslexia (thank God for modern computers and spell check) - language was more difficult for me, but I have always been good at the body language stuff.

 

Sounds like you struggle mightily with interpersonal relationships / understanding body language / unwritten social norms.

 

In my mind you have a few choices.

 

Give up on it and figure out how to be content as a loner. Kinda against ingrained human nature, but some are truly happy that way. You say you don't have much interest in people - so perhaps this is your best fit. 

 

Do nothing about it, but keep being frustrated and increasingly bitter - and spend precious days on Earth angry. This seems like an unpleasant path. 

 

Recognize you have a specific issue regarding communication / social interaction and seek diagnosis and treatment.  There is counseling available for those on the spectrum etc that can help them become better non verbal communicators - which can improve their ability to form social relationships.

[2BGoodAgain]

two things.... hmm.....

 

1) I'm in my 40s and i gotta tell you, i've dated and had relationships and affairs and what not and i gotta tell you, there are days I don't get it at all...thought i did. The point I'm making is... that's ok. Think of relationship like a book.. you look at the entire book and it's overwhelming, it's impossible, but if you take it page by page, chapter by chapter... before you know you're at the index and you're like...wtf???

 

Don't overthink or look too far ahead.. find a person who sticks out.. and say hi. don't think about life partner or friend for life... just a person you say hi to. and build upon each conversation. slowly, steadily, and who knows what it will lead. and you can do this to one person one day... another person another day... page by page... chapter by chapter... keep that in mind...

 

2) .... i'll get back to you on two... done with work.. .must drive thru snow...

[Luke Cage]

The problem I have with body language is that it varies from person to person. The past few months alone in my default stance in a conversation I've been told I'm disinterested, overly excited, passive, aggressive or my favorite, passive aggressive. It's all over the place and ultimately beyond my control because I can't change how someone thinks.

I just gave up on it, try to remain as neutral as possible and focus on whatever argument is being put forward (because really that is all that matters).

 

I never said I'm not interested in people, I said I'm not interested in most people I meet.  I wasn't kidding about the social ostracism. I'm not some kid who just had a bad social experience at a party. Being  told 'no', 'ew' laughed at or 'go away' for over 20 years led me  to ideals and interests far removed from the mainstream that it makes most interactions with people feel like shallow surface conversations that go nowhere (and I'm sure they feel similar about me as well).

 

[RecentChange]

I am guessing it's because you are putting out "weird" body language and others are having a hard time interpreting it. And thus you have continually struggled with interacting with people.

 

For many of us body language just comes naturally. I have never had to think about it, nor have I had people tell me I am conveying something I didn't intend to / be dramatically misread.

 

Personally, I think there IS something you can do about it. You are the common denominator in the misread body language - if everyone is having a hard time understanding you, and you do not know how to communicate what you want to - therein lies the problem. It's with your communication not theirs.

 

An effective counselor could point out the things you are blind to, and show you ways to communicate with people so that they can actually understand what you are trying to convey. 

[alphamale]

2 hours ago, Luke Cage said:

"For many of us, body language isn't arbitrary, but I can understand how it may seem that way to someone who struggles with it."

Is there any sort of universal standard for body language? Because it honestly changes from person to person and region from my experiences.

 

 

there are many books on body language available at the local bookstore or library,  for newer books i'd hit the bookstore

[RecentChange]

1 hour ago, alphamale said:

there are many books on body language available at the local bookstore or library,  for newer books i'd hit the bookstore

The thing is - if you think you are conveying "correct" body language and everyone else is interpreting it wrong....

 

It's going to be difficult to recognize what it is you are doing wrong - especially if it's been ingrained for decades.

 

At first when the OP said that it's abritrary, I thought he was having a hard time reading others - which is something books can help with. 

 

But when he clarified that it's others that are "arbitrary" in their interpretation of him - well then I think he is sending mixed signals that he doesn't realize.

 

An impartial third party explaining to him where he is off kilter would probably be helpful. 

[alphamale]

1 minute ago, RecentChange said:

An impartial third party explaining to him where he is off kilter would probably be helpful. 

indeed RC, and this is where the therapist comes in

[Foxhall]

Perhaps aim to become more comfortable talking about yourself as a starting point,

what are you interested in?

 

Im sensing a sense of shame in you relating to your everyday life and that needs to be addressed and fixed,

 

why should you feel bad about pursuing your interests, or feel bad about what you believe in, you are good as anybody else,

 

start a meetup group focused on your "off the wall" interests, and take a leap and tell your story.

 

 

 

 

[Luke Cage]

2 hours ago, RecentChange said:

I am guessing it's because you are putting out "weird" body language and others are having a hard time interpreting it. And thus you have continually struggled with interacting with people.

 

For many of us body language just comes naturally. I have never had to think about it, nor have I had people tell me I am conveying something I didn't intend to / be dramatically misread.

 

Personally, I think there IS something you can do about it. You are the common denominator in the misread body language - if everyone is having a hard time understanding you, and you do not know how to communicate what you want to - therein lies the problem. It's with your communication not theirs.

 

An effective counselor could point out the things you are blind to, and show you ways to communicate with people so that they can actually understand what you are trying to convey. 

 

Yeah, I'm not doing any of that. I'm tired of always conforming to some other person's ideals and then getting s*** for it.

This was a waste of time. Mods lock this.

[RecentChange]

3 minutes ago, Luke Cage said:

 

Yeah, I'm not doing any of that. I'm tired of always conforming to some other person's ideals and then getting s*** for it.

This was a waste of time. Mods lock this.

 

Then I would seek option one. Try to find some peace and happiness in the lifestyle you are living. 

 

Life isn't fair, you got delt a bad hand on the interpersonal relationship area. If you do not want to put effort into changing that - that's fine. But unless you let go of the anger you have towards others because they do not conform to your way of communicating life is going to be continually frustrating.

[Luke Cage]

I just said I'm not doing any of that and then you refer me to  something I said I'm not going to do. I also just said I spent years (decades) of  trying to adjust and make changes and then you tell me I'm not putting effort into changing.

 

Do you see what I mean when I talk about contradictory info?

[chillii]

4 hours ago, Luke Cage said:

 

Yeah, I'm not doing any of that. I'm tired of always conforming to some other person's ideals and then getting s*** for it.

This was a waste of time. Mods lock this.

 

That's what happens to people that conform to others or to the norm that isn't them. That's why 3/4 of the bs all over the net is such bs, relationship wise anyway. No one can keep up being someone they aren't in any real relationship, and why would they even want too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tonk]

I feel isolated and lonely and unable to communicate and terrible at giving off the right impressions too. I'm often angry at life for making things hard for me and easy for others. But I've had moderate success with relationships and I'd say (1) if you want something you have to work at it, I know you have for 25ys but if it bothers you then it's worth making the continual effort, or at least bouncing back again and again after set backs. Like any life skill it needs proper input from yourself and won't happen on its own (2) Change your desires, we all want the super hot blonde twenty something or whatever but inner beauty and personality is way more rewarding, hot women have practically unlimited queues of men lining up so that's never going to work but there is someone out there who will appreciate you for being you, it's just a question of finding them, so you have to persist (3) I never got on with counseling very well but there are a ton of self-help books out there. Read some, not as an instant fix but just for interest's sake. Some are good, some not so but over time it'll help you to concentrate your thoughts, process your feelings and begin to think the way you want to be.

[2BGoodAgain]

5 minutes ago, Tonk said:

I feel isolated and lonely and unable to communicate and terrible at giving off the right impressions too. I'm often angry at life for making things hard for me and easy for others. But I've had moderate success with relationships and I'd say (1) if you want something you have to work at it, I know you have for 25ys but if it bothers you then it's worth making the continual effort, or at least bouncing back again and again after set backs. Like any life skill it needs proper input from yourself and won't happen on its own (2) Change your desires, we all want the super hot blonde twenty something or whatever but inner beauty and personality is way more rewarding, hot women have practically unlimited queues of men lining up so that's never going to work but there is someone out there who will appreciate you for being you, it's just a question of finding them, so you have to persist (3) I never got on with counseling very well but there are a ton of self-help books out there. Read some, not as an instant fix but just for interest's sake. Some are good, some not so but over time it'll help you to concentrate your thoughts, process your feelings and begin to think the way you want to be.

 

self help books can be great, but remember also that bouncing ideas off a trusted, honest source helps to keep your reality in check... many times, we self delude ourselves into a perception of reality that isn't based on "reality...  but our own perception. 

[LuckyM]

I feel for you and I am much older, been through it. Luck and location  are important. When I hit 40 it felt like a wall closing in on me. The social landscape gradually changed and my choices  decreased. The older you are, the less likely for a LTR. You want to find someone before, say, 45 when the odds are worse. I had a friend, a loner, who married at 46, happily. Some people can find love anywhere, walking around, and others never do.

 

Without knowing more, it is not easy giving advice. However, you do not need  professional advice, unless you have some mental issues.. This is a stock answer commonly given on this site and everywhere. Doubtful whether the therapist would really understand your situation, be interested in you and have any insights, especially if he or she has been married all the time. I found that fortune cookie messages have more wisdom than they do!

Give yourself the benefit of the doubt, but you probably should not give women the benefit...if you suspect she is a no-go--she probably is.

 

 

[Luke Cage]

On 12/20/2019 at 5:07 PM, LuckyM said:

I feel for you and I am much older, been through it. Luck and location  are important. When I hit 40 it felt like a wall closing in on me. The social landscape gradually changed and my choices  decreased. The older you are, the less likely for a LTR. You want to find someone before, say, 45 when the odds are worse. I had a friend, a loner, who married at 46, happily. Some people can find love anywhere, walking around, and others never do.

 

Without knowing more, it is not easy giving advice. However, you do not need  professional advice, unless you have some mental issues.. This is a stock answer commonly given on this site and everywhere. Doubtful whether the therapist would really understand your situation, be interested in you and have any insights, especially if he or she has been married all the time. I found that fortune cookie messages have more wisdom than they do!

Give yourself the benefit of the doubt, but you probably should not give women the benefit...if you suspect she is a no-go--she probably is.

 

I've been in therapy for a few months, it's actually done wonders for me. I do think the therapy recommendation line is given when you've challenged someone's worldview  to the point they realize it's bulls*** but have to rationalize it somehow.

Except for any possible romantic life, I've come to the realization that for my own reasons and for reasons outside of my control, I am incapable of it.