Author trickynj99 Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 Lady your post is very thoughtful...thnx.. i agree with your base concept that we can't FIX our partners... all the "work" can be done on myself...and if i dont stick to it, its not really a change... my anxiety is a problem, has caused problems for me and my wife, and i'm working on it...one way i'm working on it is baring my soul to you guys!!! so thnx for the response you bring up another excellent that i hadnt considered about my changes being contingent on her behavior... that is an excellent point, but multi-faceted...i would ask you this... i've made certain changes for the better, my wife doesnt respond to those changes, in fact, she tells me that the affection and hopefulness i'm expressing through these changes are making her feel worse.. so where you very logically suggest that i should de-personalize her emotions(i agree 100% with you here, i am wayyyy too sensitive about this and can do much better in this regard), she has basically told me she doesnt want my support..first in her actions, then in words so if i withdraw, why do you say i'm not changing?..i still quit paxil, i'm at a good steady weight, i'm doing more than my share around the house...i'm expressing my positive feelings, the "changes" are the actions. If i withdraw, i am making another change by not smothering her with my needs(my anxiety??)...especially when she is pushing me away right to the point of goodbye, then saying dont go!!!! so i would say I'm NOT contradicting the changes i've made.. in fact, as you point out, maybe my needs(issues) are part of the problem and by withdrawing and forcing her to face the consequences of her own issues, maybe she will move forward in some way. I know i cant change her, i really dont want to "Change" her, i want to nudge her, i want her to want to help herself, but unfortunately you cant make somebody want to do something...its like getting someone to quit smoking so i end up in the same place, obviously i'm still here, i spent all weekend in a rainy slop with family, we had an ok weekend, i looked at the kids the whole time and thought to myself that at this point i dont have the heart to do it i'm suffering greatly, i know my wife is too and i just want it to end(the suffering!! i mean) TOPPER>...one thing you said really stuck out to me...when i dig deep the last year has really shaken my world view, but i'm getting back some equilibrium, but i think i have work to do(that i've ignored fora long time) to figure out what's right for me...thus my indecision and message board ranting!!!!! here is the thing...if i knew today that my wife could ever be happy..not just about us, about anything!!!....(and i also know its arrogant of me to assume i know whether she is happy, im just going on what she is saying and doing)... i would do anything to keep going in our marraige...i made a commitment to her and i feel i should honor it.... after going through the last 15 yrs, i dont see alot of commitment from her to try to get some real meaning and happiness in her life...so i would handicap 75/25 against the happy someday outcome right now... so a) am i wrong for demanding in our marriage that she do something that will only help herself ..b) am i wrong for FORCING her to face the consequence of her unwillingness to try to grow and see the bright side ..c) am i wrong to leave the family unit and risk hurting my children .. a) no b)no c)this is the problem when i dig deep...and its a big problem and i dont have an answer right now. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Lady i've made certain changes for the better, my wife doesnt respond to those changes, in fact, she tells me that the affection and hopefulness i'm expressing through these changes are making her feel worse.. so where you very logically suggest that i should de-personalize her emotions(i agree 100% with you here, i am wayyyy too sensitive about this and can do much better in this regard), she has basically told me she doesnt want my support..first in her actions, then in words so if i withdraw, why do you say i'm not changing?..i still quit paxil, i'm at a good steady weight, i'm doing more than my share around the house...i'm expressing my positive feelings If your changes are designed to let your spouse know that you are always there for her, if they are designed to enter into a closer relationship, a partnership.....then withdrawal is off the table. You've got to BE THERE in the relationship consistantly. You're right in one aspect.... You can't force, push, smother, or insist....but you can neither withdraw. That's NOT the goal you've set for yourself. If you haven't had a sexual relationship with this woman in more than four years....you are NOT her husband in the traditional sense. That's assuming that there is no medical reason for this kind of chastity. You have become her roommate, and YOU have allowed the relationship to degrade to that non-level of intimacy. You have to own it. Is she at fault too? Yeah, but she's not here....looking for more. You're the one who's looking for more. She's content with the status quo. If you are the one who wants to affect change, then it's incumbant upon YOU to get in the game and make it happen. Now, if you were only a roommate, would you be in a position to make demands? Not likely. You're going to have to sell her a NEW DEAL at this point. You're going to have to roll up your sleeves, stop looking at what she's doing (or not doing), and convince her that you've got the GOODS. Gentle salemanship. What did she like about you when you first met? An attractive, attentive, charming, good-humored man is difficult to ignore.....like bees to honey. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trickynj99 Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 ahhh ladyjane!!! i can't rebut your points. No medical reason, although i did take anti anxiety medicine that resulted in a number of bad outcomes in the bedroom, and i really cant remember a specific period when we stopped.. An interesting thought you bring up that maybe i can use for my own sanity, is that although we are both to blame for the situation(takes 2 to NOT tang0 hehe:o ..i'm the one that wants it to change, right now she doesnt, thats the simple fact ...so i just have to suck it up and keep pushing forward.. (Since march) that has been my plan and i have been (in my mind..and she agrees) very good about it.. just no results (yet..you point out)...she basically asked me to back off, so are you really saying i should aim for a middle ground short of withdrawl, that there is some kind of coded message i'm supposed to be getting. no question i'm frustrated that i feel like i have been very very focused on the new deal as you call it and winning her back.. but she has reacted quite negatively.. many people feel that the more i chase, the further she is going to push away..that as long as i am gentle and caring THERE for her, she gets what she wants and i dont!!! its all very confusing to me, thnx for your point of view i sincerely appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 .....she has quietly responded after angrily telling me that she wasnt stupid and knew what i was doing.. There's the 'fly in your ointment'. She KNOWS you have an agenda. She's onto you. The fact that you even have an "agenda" is enough to pit her against you. You're trying to WIN her over, and get your way. The two of you have too much resentment built-up after all these years. What's more, she's probably independant emotionally, and no longer relies on you for her EN's. She probably doesn't even have a clear idea about what it is that you have in mind. You two have become adversaries. She's going to automatically gravitate to the other side of whatever topic arises. Your best bet is to find out what EN's she's willing to allow you to meet, and then to start doing that consistantly. It took you YEARS for the relationship to degrade to this point. There's no quick fix now. If it only takes you half the time to climb back up, you'd still be making good time. It's your choice. You've got the keys to your own cage afterall. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Ooops! I double-posted. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trickynj99 Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Lady Jane... thnx again...i see what you are saying...i have been very up front about "my agenda" ..which is to get back to where we were.. we are both good people and i beleive we are both trying to figure things out with as little resentment as possible..the growing problem has been for the first time since this began i am starting to feel resentment and i dont ever want that As far as my agenda goes, I have been sooo up front about it, and it has soooo not helped our situation, i think we are looking at the same conclusion, but then coming up with a different answer..ME- figuring that my "Changes" were not working and beleiving as you do that ANYTHING I DO at this point is going to be opposed in some way, i figured that i would make an adjustment and try to get her to deal with the consequence of her unwillingness to move towards some reconciliation here..(i think that made sense)....what i'm forgetting is that ANYTHING I DO is going to get push back... what i am hearing from you is that because anything i do is going to be opposed anyway, my best bet is to continue to focus on making sure i am following thru on being my "best self", work on myself and hopefully at some point, with no help or pushing from me, she may at some point let me in somewhere and we can go from there... either way, if i'm centered and "changed", i come out of it less painfully. i like your way much better... the fly in that ointment is that i am just a human, and the last weeks have been especially tough and emotional for both of us..expressing my resentment has caused alot more friction.. however for some reason things have calmed down a little in the last few day and i feel less desperate (no reason - just because) so i feel fairly hopeful and positive(illogically)... i know at some point, some event (holidays) will ramp up the emotion and then if my wife continues to aggressively meet NONE of my EN's, than there will be a challenging period. thnx again for paying attention to my problems. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trickynj99 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 you were all so kind in responding with your thoughts before...so i'm just updating where we are now.. at this point, i feel a little like i backed away from a cliff. after agreeing to talk about our issues after the holidays, including thinking about separation,, i got very very angry and depressed for a time...i really felt that we were finished and for the first time i questioned whether i want to stay in this marriage.. looking at the kids, taking a deep breath..i finally decided i've been married 14 yrs, a couple months (they might be tough months) more is not going to change anything for the worse and i should suck it up and see if anything changes with my wife's thinking or actions.. i do think she is finally convinced that i am seriously considering leaving and altho she is not exactly warm to me, she has reduced the chill and is doing things like making dinner and doing laundry(even tho she is stay-at-home mom , she was saying screw it i'm not doing anything)...we both have enough activities and hobbies to keep ourselves busy and avoid the emptiness i know we both feel..but for some reason my "feelings" are ok right now and i'm using that to go day by day.. after the holidays, its sh#t or get off the pot as they say for both of us. I know now for a fact that she is more afraid of me leaving and i would say that is still a fairly likely outcome... i know - i'm a wimp...but in the end i really only have one card to play and once i do that, the kids are involved and that's what i'm hoping to avoid.. Link to post Share on other sites
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