2 years in... need convincing that this will not work

[mark clemson]

Quite true and even if they don't it can still be bad, agree.

[Patheticallydespererate]

On 12/28/2019 at 5:22 PM, Pocket said:

 

I’m just aghast with all of the stereotypes and vilification for the MPs on this thread. 
 

First, I’d like to say I hope you resolve this turmoil, whatever it is. Having said that, I wonder why it is you believe that your MOM is lying to you. Do you not trust men? Do you have FOO issues? If he as the MM is a liar does that automatically make you as the MW a liar? I’m just trying to understand. And I think it would be wise to see an IC about all of this. 
 

I think he tolerates you or “puts up with your nonsense” because he cares. Look, it’s not that hard to start an affair but he’s staying with you and willing to work on issues with you. He’d dump you in a hot second if he felt you weren’t worth it so please stop stressing about this. 
 

You say you are putting your life on hold. Did he ask you to stop sleeping with your H? Are you expecting him to leave his M for you? 

 

It feels like you stopped feeling desire for your H so you began an affair and now that you’re in it your feelings are growing for the MOM. Don’t blame him for that because it’s only natural. 
 

I think if you focus only on the present and enjoy the time you have with him you’ll stop feeling like your life is on hold and you’ll stop complaining about what you see on social media. He can’t help what his W posts and those are likely fake smiles for the camera anyway. 
 

So, if you get IC, stop looking at SM, cut him some slack and have trust in him, I think you’ll feel a lot better about your relationship with him. Once that part of your life is stable then you can focus on how this is affecting your family. I’ve been in my affair for many years and I can honestly say it has not affected my family.

 

Hugs to you. 

Thank you pocket for your response. I think I do have trust issues which is from having very low self esteem and I always question why my AP would even love me and question why he puts up with all my outbursts. After reading so many posts, I feel the reason why he puts up with me is purely because it’s easier to work it out with me as I’m a sure bet than starting or finding a new AP? My AF didn’t ask me to stop sleeping with my H, however is was quite with me that if he found out that I’d been sleeping with him during our time together that he’d be very angry. I feel he is still intimate with his wife even though he says he is not. 
you make a good point about the social media, that he cannot control what she posts, however I feel he can control how the photos are taken. He claims he has no love for her and wants to be with me (not now though) but is more than happy to pose in happy snaps with her. That just gets my blood boiling. .... which leads to many many tears. How did your affair not affect your family and the way you were with them ? 
 

thank you for your support 

[Patheticallydespererate]

Update....first, thank you everyone for your support and advice. this past week has been very tough. I went away with the family as we have for the last 14 years and my AP has been really pissed off at me. I promised him that it was purely for the kids and I would always make myself available to chat with him. The day before I had to leave we were meant to meet up but he told me that he didn’t have much time... which I got really angry and upset over. I told him to enjoy Xmas and his time off with his family and wished him a merry Christmas. He said “chat later”. 3 days passed and he didn’t reach out so I did. The attack from him was full on.... he got angry that I hadn’t messaged him for Xmas and even angrier that I was on holidays. I then attacked him and told him to never contact me again because his wife posted Selfies of the 2 of them over the Xmas break having a good old time together (he claimed I had ruined his Xmas.... didn’t look that way) This exchange happened for another 2 days of both just at each other. We both made a pact ... he won’t take any more couple pics and I’m not to plan any more holidays with the family. 
 

this sounds all so crazy .... so toxic. I just wish he would call it off with me. I don’t have the strength or the guts. He always brings me back in some how. 
 

at the moment, I’m still on holidays ... it’s been the worst holidays.... I’ve been so distracted and so distant with everyone,.... although I haven’t shed a tear since I’ve been here which tells me I’m slowly growing stronger. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Patheticallydespererate

[elaine567]

Truth is he is posing for happy snaps with his wife as he IS happy.
The problem as he sees it, is not with him, it is with you, for not accepting this great opportunity for "extra" love and attention.
You are spoiling it for him with your moans and complaints.
You are looking for Prince Charming, and an epic love story with a happy ever after, he is looking for a nice uncomplicated extramarital affair...

Of course affairs affect families, those who say they don't, are fooling themselves... you spent your holidays in misery, distracted, distant... happy days for everyone else... 

[Poppy47]

On 12/21/2019 at 5:48 AM, elaine567 said:

Seems to me,  women know exactly what they want most of the time, but women are pretty good at trying to keep the peace or they hide what they really want in case it scares a man off.
Women are pretty quick to jettison the marriage, separate and divorce if they are not happy, it is usually the MM who stalls  and makes excuses.
Married women are often just looking for a replacement husband, men are not looking for a new wife, they have one of those already.

Even if there is no affair involved, women are far more likely to leave an unsatisfactory marriage than men.

Poppy

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Patheticallydespererate said:

 We both made a pact ... he won’t take any more couple pics and I’m not to plan any more holidays with the family.

Apologies if this comes across as harsh, but this "pact" sounds bizarre and in a way borderline insane. You can't go on holiday with your family?? He can't take pictures with his wife???

Take a step back and think as if it was someone else. Does this sounds in any way even remotely normal?

Rules that are impossible to follow or otherwise don't make sense tend to get broken. But I bet he's a lot more harsh on you about the next holiday than you are on him about the next photo.

What reason will you give for not going along this summer or next December? How long will it fly with your H?

Sincerely hope you are able to extricate yourself from this.

Edited January 2, 2020 by mark clemson

[Patheticallydespererate]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Truth is he is posing for happy snaps with his wife as he IS happy.
The problem as he sees it, is not with him, it is with you, for not accepting this great opportunity for "extra" love and attention.
You are spoiling it for him with your moans and complaints.
You are looking for Prince Charming, and an epic love story with a happy ever after, he is looking for a nice uncomplicated extramarital affair...

Of course affairs affect families, those who say they don't, are fooling themselves... you spent your holidays in misery, distracted, distant... happy days for everyone else... 

If he is look for an uncomplicated affair ... why doesn’t he just pull the pin on it and seek another? And you’re right... my holidays has been miserable and he said I’ve ruined is although I know I haven’t. 

[Patheticallydespererate]

Just now, mark clemson said:

Apologies if this comes across as harsh, but this "pact" sounds bizarre and in a way borderline insane. You can't go on holiday with your family?? He can't take pictures with his wife???

Take a step back and think as if it was someone else. Does this sounds in any way even remotely normal?

Rules that are impossible to follow or otherwise don't make sense tend to get broken. But I bet he's a lot more harsh on you about the next holiday than you are on him about the next photo.

What reason will you give for not going along this summer or next December? How long will it fly with your H?

Sincerely hope you are able to extricate yourself from this.

Not harsh at all... when I was writing it, I was cringing and none of this is normal. He definitely is a lot more harsher than I... he has already said .... “he can’t help it if she comes up to his face and takes a pic of them both” but I’m under no circumstance to organise any further family holidays. H is already talking about going on a cruise over the next few months. I do want this to end... I know my heart will hurt ... but I need to do it but don’t have the courage. I really did believe he would’ve ended it by now. 

[Hip Pocket]

1 hour ago, Patheticallydespererate said:

Thank you pocket for your response. I think I do have trust issues which is from having very low self esteem and I always question why my AP would even love me and question why he puts up with all my outbursts. After reading so many posts, I feel the reason why he puts up with me is purely because it’s easier to work it out with me as I’m a sure bet than starting or finding a new AP? My AF didn’t ask me to stop sleeping with my H, however is was quite with me that if he found out that I’d been sleeping with him during our time together that he’d be very angry. I feel he is still intimate with his wife even though he says he is not. 
you make a good point about the social media, that he cannot control what she posts, however I feel he can control how the photos are taken. He claims he has no love for her and wants to be with me (not now though) but is more than happy to pose in happy snaps with her. That just gets my blood boiling. .... which leads to many many tears. How did your affair not affect your family and the way you were with them ? 
 

thank you for your support 

Ok, so just to be fair, your insecure issues come from your nature of having low self-esteem and trust issues before you ever met your AP, so an affair caused none of this. It would serve you well to get some IC for that.

 

Also, no MP puts up with outbursts because it’s easier than finding another AP. He’s obviously in this because he loves you. (Who else would tolerate outbursts but someone who loves them?). I would stop with the outbursts and try to find solutions to your real problems in a logical way. Don’t bond over these squabbles, bond over things you have in common. 
 

He can’t help but be in pictures with his BW so your expectations are a bit unreasonable. But it doesn’t mean he’s enjoying himself in those pictures, don’t let anyone fool you by suggesting he “IS happy” because they cannot know that. His being in an EMR with you is hard proof that he is not happy in his M. Let’s use some common sense here. 
 

I left my M early in my EMR. The M was over for me before I met my MM but I found the strength and motivation to begin the D process after I met him. It still took some time to get the D finalized because I was M a very long time but nonetheless I did not let my EMR nor my D affect my family. I suppose self-control and self-awareness played a role in that. I am very protective over my kids and wanted to ensure their well-being during all of this so we had many discussions as to how they could cope with this life change. They adjusted well to the D and all of them are adults now and have started their own lives. 

I have zero regrets. I think in time you’ll come to a better place as well. 

 

[Starswillshine]

7 hours ago, Pocket said:

 

Also, no MP puts up with outbursts because it’s easier than finding another AP. He’s obviously in this because he loves you. (Who else would tolerate outbursts but someone who loves them?). I would stop with the outbursts and try to find solutions to your real problems in a logical way. Don’t bond over these squabbles, bond over things you have in common. 
 

He can’t help but be in pictures with his BW so your expectations are a bit unreasonable. But it doesn’t mean he’s enjoying himself in those pictures, don’t let anyone fool you by suggesting he “IS happy” because they cannot know that. His being in an EMR with you is hard proof that he is not happy in his M. Let’s use some common sense here.

False and False. 

My xH dealt with his AP's outburst because he was terrified that if he didnt, she would blow his world up. Once I divorced him, he had no use to keep that charade. She is now drowning her sorrows and calling me in the middle of the night to threaten suicide. 

Some MM are happy as hell in their marriage, but they also want some side action. Something different. Let's face it, eating the same thing for breakfast, lunch and dinner can be boring. That is marriage. Of course, those types should not be married. But they can be and often times are as happy as they can be in a marriage or long time relationship. The issue is that some OP believe that he/she can be the one they will be monogamous with if only the MP leaves their spouse. Quite flawed thinking if OP looks at MP behavior. 

[mark clemson]

10 hours ago, Pocket said:

But it doesn’t mean he’s enjoying himself in those pictures, don’t let anyone fool you by suggesting he “IS happy” because they cannot know that. His being in an EMR with you is hard proof that he is not happy in his M. Let’s use some common sense here.

Not necessarily true, I agree with SWS. He may be happy enough in general but desire an OW. He might be very unhappy but there's no real way to know that either.

I don't think it serves a distressed OW well to replace one black/white viewpoint with another. Truth is frequently somewhere in between IME.

[Bittersweetie]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:58 PM, Bittersweetie said:

I was a MW. I think it is difficult to gain clarity when one is in the midst of the drama itself. You mention you are going away with your family. Maybe take that time to focus on yourself and your family, and push away thoughts of MM and the affair for now. Like a period of no contact in order for you to start getting your thoughts together.

You say things like you're weak and lacking courage, which is a way to defer responsibility. It may not feel like it, but you do have control, you have a choice every moment. It is up to you, though, what kind of person you choose to be moving forward. You do not sound happy. Whether that is regards to the affair or marriage or both I don't know. But if you are this unhappy, then start making changes. They don't have to be huge life-shattering things, but think about the small steps you can take today and then take them. You are in control of your own choices in your life.

Repeating what I said earlier in this thread after your recent update. You cannot control MM or what he does with his family, you cannot control your H. But you DO have control over yourself and your actions. So you need to decide what actions you are going to take moving forward (and deciding not to do anything is a choice in itself). You do not sound happy or satisfied with how things in your life are right now, and it could be those close to you are affected by those feelings. So what are you going to do in 2020 make a positive change? Remember, you can start small or with one thing for now (NC would be the healthiest choice for you at this point....not to affect MM in any way, but for you to gain clarity on your situation). 

Are you going to solve everything at once? No. Is it going to be easy? Of course not. But a person does not complete a marathon immediately...they plan and train for a long time before trying to finish a marathon, and sometimes it takes more than one try. You can take the first step toward a healthier and more authentic you, you do have the courage within you.

[stillafool]

On 1/1/2020 at 2:21 PM, Beentheretoooften said:

It’s never that easy.   You know that too 

Maybe not for cake eaters but  people are divorcing everyday.  Ask the OW whose MM left their wives and family for them.  It depends how much you really want the other person.

[Amethyst68]

This may seem harsh but do you think about your kids at all? You admit you've been distracted during their holiday, which I can almost guarantee they've noticed and then you agree to no more family holidays because you can't handle seeing a picture of your MM with his wife. What's next? Your MM decides no more family activities at all? Your kids can't spend time with both parents because it makes him angry? I doubt he'll have the same restrictions placed on him.
If you're unhappy in your marriage deal with it. Tell your BH about the affair that should help you make a decision plus he deserves to have agency  in his own life.

 

[Truthandhonesty]

Quote

He can’t help but be in pictures with his BW so your expectations are a bit unreasonable. But it doesn’t mean he’s enjoying himself in those pictures, don’t let anyone fool you by suggesting he “IS happy” because they cannot know that. His being in an EMR with you is hard proof that he is not happy in his M. Let’s use some common sense here. 

 

And likewise nobody can actually know he isn’t happy. People do carry out affairs everyday whilst still in love with their wife/husband for a variety of reason.

 

During my husbands affair we had a period of about 6months that were dark and miserable mainly because he pulled away from our marriage and family to send his AP sext/photos/videos etc. His affair began because of his selfishness and a rewriting of our history. Yes he was unfulfilled in our marriage but what broken people don’t realise is that your partner can never fulfill every need you have, you have to take responsibility. Could he have shared his needs and given me a chance to fix things, yes, but he chose to seek them elsewhere. I was unfulfilled in my marriage too but I tried to fix it rather than seek validation outside my marriage.

 

After the 6 dark months, we reached out to each other and agreed we wanted to fix our marriage. I worked my arse off to make things better and shouldered a lot of blame for things. Little did I know he was continuing the affair (he hadn’t confess an affair at this point but I knew he had an inappropriate relationship the whole time but believed he was a man with integrity and morals and wouldn’t physically cheat on me). 

 

So in reply to the photo issue. My husband told his AP that our marriage was over, we didn’t have sex, photos and things posted online where only done to create an illusion for my family that we were ok. It was all bulls***. I was (after the 6 months) happy, he wanted to repair our marriage , we were having regular sex, he happily posed for photos (but would not post them online), we had lots of happy experience and holidays. They are all tinged now I know about the affair but at that point when I was posting I was doing it because I loved my husband and we were happy together.

 

your pact to be frank is ridiculous. You are his side piece, he is yours. Your loyalty should be with your husband and family - what kind of a relationship is it if your “boyfriend” says no you can’t have family holidays- your poor children having their experiences and family time dictated and taken away by a man their mother is f***ing. He is married, his wife should be allowed to take a picture with him, she is his wife for goodness sake. I find it ridiculous that people enter into a relationship with someone who isn’t married and then get jealous about the persons spouse.

 

I’m sorry but if your relationship was genuine and you loved each other you would leave and be together. My husband had a two year affair which started due to his KISA complex and continued for a variety of reasons. He never had an intent to leave because he knew that our relationship was giving him most of what he needed and that their relationship would be a car crash if it ever became his reality.

 

You won’t hear this because you are caught up in lala land but what you should do is end your affair, go no contact with him. Tell your husband EVERYTHING. If your husband decides to give you the gift of reconciliation you may find you rediscover why you married him (I’m sure you probably had a period where he was exciting, amazing and the love of your life). If he doesn’t or you don’t want it leave him. Let him have an honest and truthful life with the gift of finding a wife who deserves him. At the minute you are betraying the man you vowed to love and all your family. It’s rubbish that people spout affairs don’t affect families. They do!

 

And when you have told your husband everything and given him evidence, HE (not you) should contact your AP’s wife because she deserves to know the truth and decided her future based on the facts and truth.

 

If (and it is a big if) you and your AP are star crossed lovers who are meant to be then you will be. But I suspect you aren’t and I suspect deep down you know he wants to remain with his wife and is probably lying to you. Ask yourself why on earth you would want to be in a relationship with a man who you know is a liar and a cheater? I stay with my husband because for 15 years he was a good husband, a man who I could depend on, a man I loved with all my heart. For two years he was an awful man, a man with no integrity, no moral, a man who would leave us waiting to eating dinner so his AP could suck him off in a cupboard, a man who thought little of anybody else. I stay because for the last two year he has worked hard to become an even better husband, a husband who puts me first, a husband who spends time with his children again, a man who wants to become better for himself not just us. I can’t imagine starting a relationship with a liar and a cheater and believing that he would change. 

 

 

Oh and for what it is worth, 2 years after dday my husband feels nothing for his AP, he snapped out of any feeling he had when I threw him out and told him I was divorcing him. He has not contacted her. He is utterly ashamed of himself and how he treated me and our children. He feels nothing but disgust. And the one things he has now come to value more than anything else is me and our marriage. He admits the rewriting of our marriage and now it causes him great pain that his affair has led to our history being tinged with sadness for me. He is the one know we relives the (many) happy times in our marriage. He recognises how good it is and how good I am and how damn selfish he was. His AP, despite two years of declarations of love, means nothing to him and he wishes he had never met her. She will always be his regret in life.

 

 

[Hip Pocket]

15 minutes ago, Truthandhonesty said:

Ask yourself why on earth you would want to be in a relationship with a man who you know is a liar and a cheater? 

For the very same reasons you are.

[Truthandhonesty]

38 minutes ago, Pocket said:

For the very same reasons you are.

I think if you read my post properly you would see

 

Quote

stay with my husband because for 15 years he was a good husband, a man who I could depend on, a man I loved with all my heart. For two years he was an awful man, a man with no integrity, no moral, a man who would leave us waiting to eating dinner so his AP could suck him off in a cupboard, a man who thought little of anybody else. I stay because for the last two year he has worked hard to become an even better husband, a husband who puts me first, a husband who spends time with his children again, a man who wants to become better for himself not just us. I can’t imagine starting a relationship with a liar and a cheater and believing that he would change. 

I had a 15 year foundation built on love, trust, honest, respect, dignity, morals, friendship and many many other things. Hence why I stay. Will I always stay - who knows? My husband knows that I stay because he is doing the work. If he ever lets me down again I won’t.

 

 

An affair has a foundation of lies, cheating, deceptions, fantasy and a lot of other terrible qualities. Love shouldn’t hurt people and affairs ultimately do - they hurt everyone involved to different depths. To accept this relationship which has no good qualities from the start, no solid foundation from the start is a sign of little self worth, little self esteem. 

 

Maybe this persons AP will change, I do believe people can change (hence why I stay) but she has no grounding to see that from. He was a liar and a cheater from day one of their relationship (as is she). 

 

Quote

I cry nearly every day thinking about what I’m doing to my family, I feel disgusted in myself and l’m at a low point where I feel I don’t even deserve my family. 

Love shouldn’t make you feel like this at all. Real love is genuine, honest, kind, caring, giving, truthful. All the things an affair isn’t and never will be. Decide what you want, him or your husband but you can’t have both. And at the minute you don’t deserve your family. You say your husband is a good man and you’ve grown apart - put some energy into fixing it instead of another person or walk away. Trust me affairs hurt everyone including your kids. My son knew his dad was having an affair and was afraid to tell me. His relationship with his father is intact and still quite positive largely because of how I have handled it. You are distracted on your family holiday, your kids know something is up and they are probably fed up of Mum doing what she does. My kids still comment on the fact that Dad would spend ages in the bathroom (because he was busy sexting her), instead of being with them. Kids know, kids hurt and your kids do deserve better. 

 

But and this is the really important bit, you can become the better, you can deserve your family again. And this can happen if you stay married and it can happen if you divorce. I’m not saying stay married if you are unhappy but don’t keep being miserable and hurting people around. Work on yourself, work on your character flaws that led to your involvement in a relationship, work on how you could let yourself hurt people you care about, work on becoming a better person and grow. Become a person you are proud of, become a person your children can be proud of.

 

what would you tell your son or daughter if they were you? What would you tell your son or daughter if they were in your husbands shoes? Think of other people, not just yourself. Would you be proud of your daughter if she behaved like you have? If your son was your husband would you just tell him to suck it up, because his wife loves another man? Be better, everyone should have that goal.

[Hip Pocket]

3 hours ago, Truthandhonesty said:

I think if you read my post properly you would see

 

I had a 15 year foundation built on love, trust, honest, respect, dignity, morals, friendship and many many other things. Hence why I stay. Will I always stay - who knows? My husband knows that I stay because he is doing the work. If he ever lets me down again I won’t.

 

 

An affair has a foundation of lies, cheating, deceptions, fantasy and a lot of other terrible qualities. Love shouldn’t hurt people and affairs ultimately do - they hurt everyone involved to different depths. To accept this relationship which has no good qualities from the start, no solid foundation from the start is a sign of little self worth, little self esteem. 

 

I did read your post “properly” and I see several fallacies, one of which is that all affairs are built on lies thus have no real foundation. If that’s true why do you suspect my MM and I have lasted the nearly two decades we’ve been together? There’s only so many ways you can try to make sex exciting after that long so what else is there? Since you’ve got so many misconceived notions I’ll tell you. There’s love, trust, mutual respect, dignity, history, and yes, great sex. I think I pretty much described good Ms too with that. And nobody is hurt, especially with BW’s ability to rugsweep. If she didn’t have that quality maybe we wouldn’t be here but she does and we are. And I don’t know what fantasy you’re speaking of because we live in the real world and conduct our very real and meaningful R in it.

 

And finally, I’ve got zero problem with self-esteem. The OP in this thread may feel that way but many of us don’t. I think if she keeps reading and keeps posting she’ll get what she needs to make good decisions going forward but being judgmental isn’t going to help her, it’s only going to drive her, and other posters who need help, away. 

[Truthandhonesty]

1 hour ago, Pocket said:

Since you’ve got so many misconceived notions I’ll tell you. There’s love, trust, mutual respect, dignity, history, and yes, great sex. I think I pretty much described good Ms too with that. And nobody is hurt, especially with BW’s ability to rugsweep. If she didn’t have that quality maybe we wouldn’t be here but she does and we are. And I don’t know what fantasy you’re speaking of because we live in the real world and conduct our very real and meaningful R in it.

 

And finally, I’ve got zero problem with self-esteem. The OP in this thread may feel that way but many of us don’t. I think if she keeps reading and keeps posting she’ll get what she needs to make good decisions going forward but being judgmental isn’t going to help her, it’s only going to drive her, and other posters who need help, away. 

To keep this on thread and I won't return now or voice my opinion on your "relationship" or your "intact" self esteem after this.

 

The OP started the thread saying need help to convince this is over. She knows deep down that she wants more than she has and deserves better. 

 

All the people who claim "I've had 20 year affairs and nobody ever gets hurt because my lala land is so rosy and perfect" aren't exactly helpful either IMO.

 

I stand by my advice that what the OP needs to is to either a) work on her marriage or b) leave it (regardless of the affair) but no person with integrity and morals can have a marriage and an affair at the same time (unless of course all parties know and agree which isn't the case here). No matter how many times people say my affair doesn't hurt anyone doesn't change the fact that affairs do hurt people. You have no idea what your AP's BW feels in reality unless you are a close confident of her.

 

Hopefully the OP (and yourself?) will be reflective and work on themselves to improve as a person and stop hurting people she cares (or at the very least once cared) about and also in accepting less than she deserves.

[2BGoodAgain]

12 hours ago, Truthandhonesty said:

And likewise nobody can actually know he isn’t happy. People do carry out affairs everyday whilst still in love with their wife/husband for a variety of reason.

 

During my husbands affair we had a period of about 6months that were dark and miserable mainly because he pulled away from our marriage and family to send his AP sext/photos/videos etc. His affair began because of his selfishness and a rewriting of our history. Yes he was unfulfilled in our marriage but what broken people don’t realise is that your partner can never fulfill every need you have, you have to take responsibility. Could he have shared his needs and given me a chance to fix things, yes, but he chose to seek them elsewhere. I was unfulfilled in my marriage too but I tried to fix it rather than seek validation outside my marriage.

 

After the 6 dark months, we reached out to each other and agreed we wanted to fix our marriage. I worked my arse off to make things better and shouldered a lot of blame for things. Little did I know he was continuing the affair (he hadn’t confess an affair at this point but I knew he had an inappropriate relationship the whole time but believed he was a man with integrity and morals and wouldn’t physically cheat on me). 

 

So in reply to the photo issue. My husband told his AP that our marriage was over, we didn’t have sex, photos and things posted online where only done to create an illusion for my family that we were ok. It was all bulls***. I was (after the 6 months) happy, he wanted to repair our marriage , we were having regular sex, he happily posed for photos (but would not post them online), we had lots of happy experience and holidays. They are all tinged now I know about the affair but at that point when I was posting I was doing it because I loved my husband and we were happy together.

 

your pact to be frank is ridiculous. You are his side piece, he is yours. Your loyalty should be with your husband and family - what kind of a relationship is it if your “boyfriend” says no you can’t have family holidays- your poor children having their experiences and family time dictated and taken away by a man their mother is f***ing. He is married, his wife should be allowed to take a picture with him, she is his wife for goodness sake. I find it ridiculous that people enter into a relationship with someone who isn’t married and then get jealous about the persons spouse.

 

I’m sorry but if your relationship was genuine and you loved each other you would leave and be together. My husband had a two year affair which started due to his KISA complex and continued for a variety of reasons. He never had an intent to leave because he knew that our relationship was giving him most of what he needed and that their relationship would be a car crash if it ever became his reality.

 

You won’t hear this because you are caught up in lala land but what you should do is end your affair, go no contact with him. Tell your husband EVERYTHING. If your husband decides to give you the gift of reconciliation you may find you rediscover why you married him (I’m sure you probably had a period where he was exciting, amazing and the love of your life). If he doesn’t or you don’t want it leave him. Let him have an honest and truthful life with the gift of finding a wife who deserves him. At the minute you are betraying the man you vowed to love and all your family. It’s rubbish that people spout affairs don’t affect families. They do!

 

And when you have told your husband everything and given him evidence, HE (not you) should contact your AP’s wife because she deserves to know the truth and decided her future based on the facts and truth.

 

If (and it is a big if) you and your AP are star crossed lovers who are meant to be then you will be. But I suspect you aren’t and I suspect deep down you know he wants to remain with his wife and is probably lying to you. Ask yourself why on earth you would want to be in a relationship with a man who you know is a liar and a cheater? I stay with my husband because for 15 years he was a good husband, a man who I could depend on, a man I loved with all my heart. For two years he was an awful man, a man with no integrity, no moral, a man who would leave us waiting to eating dinner so his AP could suck him off in a cupboard, a man who thought little of anybody else. I stay because for the last two year he has worked hard to become an even better husband, a husband who puts me first, a husband who spends time with his children again, a man who wants to become better for himself not just us. I can’t imagine starting a relationship with a liar and a cheater and believing that he would change. 

 

 

Oh and for what it is worth, 2 years after dday my husband feels nothing for his AP, he snapped out of any feeling he had when I threw him out and told him I was divorcing him. He has not contacted her. He is utterly ashamed of himself and how he treated me and our children. He feels nothing but disgust. And the one things he has now come to value more than anything else is me and our marriage. He admits the rewriting of our marriage and now it causes him great pain that his affair has led to our history being tinged with sadness for me. He is the one know we relives the (many) happy times in our marriage. He recognises how good it is and how good I am and how damn selfish he was. His AP, despite two years of declarations of love, means nothing to him and he wishes he had never met her. She will always be his regret in life.

 

 

Every affair is diff, yet very similar... may have diff reasons, but the result is "usually" the same...

There IS a strong pull to that AP, though its usually how they make you feel and not the actual individual(in other words, you are not unique to that person); be it the fantasy you build up in your head, or the natural chemistry that seems "star crossed"... and who knows, mebbe it is, but it's truly rare... 

This is from the perspective of the male AP... you convince yourself in your self-deceit that rationalizes the continuation of your affair b/c of the way it makes you feel... to avoid the realities of a troubled marriage; i've heard too many say they're in a "happy" marriage and that everything is fine... they just needed this one fling or side thing.. it's not a big deal(self-deceit/trivializing/rationalizing)... some try to balance the truth from the fiction by compromising, saying there IS something wrong with the marriage, but that it's too tough to leave, etc.. .b/c of financial, the children, etc etc... And by trouble marriage, it could be some unrealistic expectation of the other partner.. to something actually wrong with the marriage itself..to again justifying the affair by creating problems that may or may not exist with the partner(rather than facing the fact that it's really yourself that's the problem, rather than your partner), or perhaps it isn't as bad as it seems, but you self delude yourself into thinking it's bigger than it really is... to keep the affair going.

So many times... instead of facing it head-on(addressing conflict)/or making a life alternating decisions(breaking up/divorce)..  they choose to the easier path... the less "adult" path(?)(shrug)... 

People see the result of an affair and assume that's why they cheated... the excitement, the chase, the ego, the taboo, the sex, the physical/emotional chemistry/attraction... but those are all just the visual symptoms and not the root cause of the affair... 

anyway... the pull to the AP(or what they make you feel) is strong, like a drug.. you know in your head it's wrong and not healthy for you, your life, the loved ones(presuming you're even there)... but depending where you are in that addiction(if this applies to you)... like a drug addict... you'll lie, cheat, rationalize... to yourself, your loved ones, everyone...and especially the AP... to keep that high going...

Oh yeah... before i forget, for those who say people in affairs don't feel guilt... they do, initially... that's why sometimes, they have to lie to themselves to justify why they do what they do.... and after a while, you no longer feel the guilt... i guess it's like that first time, you lie to your parents... you feel this huge wave of shame and guilt... after each lie, though... it gets easier and easier and less guilt and less guilt... 

of course, morality differs from person to person... even the most moral person, who may feel guilt mentally b/c they know it's wrong, will cheat and justify and rationalize... until one day, they hit rock bottom(D-Day) and wonder how the hell they got to this point?

That's the wake up moment, the fork in the road.... where you "start" waking up from all the layers of lies and self delusions you came up with... the rock bottom... and this is probably the ONE slim chance you get to save whatever relationship(s) with the loved ones in your life, ... b/c even if you deceive your life partner b/c your addiction to that feeling is strong and pulls you back in... and keep up the affair, it destroys you slowly.... and it definitely disconnects you from the people you love... so you still end up with... how did hell did i get here?

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[AriesMan83]

Love is based on trust and honesty.

Affairs are based on deceit and dishonesty.

Edited January 17, 2020 by AriesMan83

[AriesMan83]

Just because a betrayed spouse rugs weeps doesn't mean he/she doesn't feel the pain.Showing your pain to your wayward spouse means being vulnerable to the person who took you for granted and betrayed you in the first place.Being vulnerable to a wayward spouse is extremely difficult for some betrayed spouse IMO.And how can a berased spouse be vulnerable to a wayward spouse if the WS continues the affair.

Saying BS's ability for rugsweep is the reason for the continuation of the affair is IMO blaming the betrayed spouse for the wrong choices of the wayward spouse which is absolutely wrong.It's Waward Spouse's selfishness and poor boundaries which allows him/her to cheat and not the betrayed spouse.

A person needs to talk to his/her partner or go to MC with his/her partner to work out the problems in the relationship/marriage.Having an affair is nothing but running away from the problems in the relationships/marriage.

Additional reasons for not leaving a relationship is breaking a family,familiarity,comfort and fear of the unknown future.

Reasons for not ending an affair is addiction to the validation and ego boost that an affair provides.

Edited January 17, 2020 by AriesMan83

[Hip Pocket]

There is no lalaland, rosy-ness, or perfection in any R. Good EMRs take work just like any other R. There is no addiction, not after this long, and we don’t base our R around lies. He may tell her stories, I don’t know, but as she doesn’t ask it’s likely he doesn’t have to tell. He says if she knew there would be hell to pay so he takes great care to protect her from a Dday. 
 

As for the OP asking for help in ending the EMR, well she hadn’t shown up in her own thread for a while which has me wondering if she’s real. I hope, if she is real, that she’s ok. 

[Poppy47]

On 1/17/2020 at 6:19 PM, Truthandhonesty said:

To keep this on thread and I won't return now or voice my opinion on your "relationship" or your "intact" self esteem after this.

 

The OP started the thread saying need help to convince this is over. She knows deep down that she wants more than she has and deserves better. 

 

All the people who claim "I've had 20 year affairs and nobody ever gets hurt because my lala land is so rosy and perfect" aren't exactly helpful either IMO.

 

I stand by my advice that what the OP needs to is to either a) work on her marriage or b) leave it (regardless of the affair) but no person with integrity and morals can have a marriage and an affair at the same time (unless of course all parties know and agree which isn't the case here). No matter how many times people say my affair doesn't hurt anyone doesn't change the fact that affairs do hurt people. You have no idea what your AP's BW feels in reality unless you are a close confident of her.

 

Hopefully the OP (and yourself?) will be reflective and work on themselves to improve as a person and stop hurting people she cares (or at the very least once cared) about and also in accepting less than she deserves.

I do not believe we ever know anybody to a full extent.  We hope and trust, but how do you really know??? I had an affair as OW for almost 10 years. xMM's wife never had a clue. He never told him of his unhappiness regarding intimacy because she shut up shop when she had menopause. 

That does not relate to you at all but just how do we trust anybody?

Poppy

[Dimjo9]

On 12/21/2019 at 10:10 PM, Patheticallydespererate said:

 

He shuts me down because he thinks I’m overreacting to things or if I need reassurance or if I question his intentions. I do it often as I’m quite insecure. He shuts me down because I think I’ve hit the nail in the head on a few things.

 

I was in a low place when I met my AP.... I wanted a 3rd baby and H didn’t. My husband is a big gambler .... and I’m not blaming this as the cause of me stepping out and finding someone .... I’m just lonely. I feel like I’m not good enough and don’t do anything right and here comes along a man that thinks I’m the best thing that ever happened to him. I did believe that, however the last few months of the fog clearing and being on here... he thought I was the best purely for selfish reasons. I’m as gullible as they come. 

Hi. Come clean @ confess everythinG to your Husband.. The affair is EA/PA ?? Whatever is the consequence accept it.. 

Also his Wife deserve to know the truth.. this has aftermath but be responsible & face it..

If u are co-workers resign from the company & maintain NC for life..  

 

 

On 12/21/2019 at 10:10 PM, Patheticallydespererate said:

 

He shuts me down because he thinks I’m overreacting to things or if I need reassurance or if I question his intentions. I do it often as I’m quite insecure. He shuts me down because I think I’ve hit the nail in the head on a few things.

 

I was in a low place when I met my AP.... I wanted a 3rd baby and H didn’t. My husband is a big gambler .... and I’m not blaming this as the cause of me stepping out and finding someone .... I’m just lonely. I feel like I’m not good enough and don’t do anything right and here comes along a man that thinks I’m the best thing that ever happened to him. I did believe that, however the last few months of the fog clearing and being on here... he thought I was the best purely for selfish reasons. I’m as gullible as they come.