Author wtm78 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Finding my way said: If you're so unhappy you're making multiple posts about your marriage on this forum, then that's all you need to know - that you don't have a healthy marriage. As has been noted, "healthy" marriages involve working together and compromise, the specifics will be different from marriage to marriage. Counseling sounds like a very good idea for you and your wife so that a neutral third party can hear from both of you and then provide suggestions. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my post ya?!.. I'm really trying to keep this post separate from the rest. The post is really seeking the one question what does a healthy marriage looks like.. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
FMW Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 11 hours ago, wtm78 said: The post is really seeking the one question My answer to the one question was in the second sentence. I just sandwiched it between some extras🙂 Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) You might want to check out the writings of John Gottman, the famous marriage researcher. Here is a quote about what Gottman calls the "good enough marriage." Gottman has interviewed and counseled thousands of couples over decades. ... we describe what couples in the good enough relationship do and have. They are good friends. They have a satisfying sex life. They trust one another, and are fully committed to one another. They can manage conflict constructively. That means they can arrive at mutual understanding and get to compromises that work. And they can repair effectively when they hurt one another. They honor one another’s dreams, even if they’re different. They create a shared meaning system with shared values and ethics, beliefs, rituals, and goals. They agree about fundamental symbols like what a home is, what love is, and how to raise their children. https://www.gottman.com/blog/truth-expectations-relationships/ BTW: Gottman in the link above says a good enough marriage will not heal your childhood wounds ... and won't necessarily put you on a path towards spiritual enlightenment. And notice, he says couples "manage conflict constructively." There will always been conflict ... and conflict that is not "solved" ... The key is that the couples "repair" meaning they regularly reassure the other person after a conflict or criticism ... Edited December 22, 2019 by Lotsgoingon 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author wtm78 Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) On 12/22/2019 at 8:45 AM, Lotsgoingon said: You might want to check out the writings of John Gottman, the famous marriage researcher. thanks! its a good article..... what if we cant talk through the problem? like say an innocent conversation like... if i say "hey the toast is burnt.." and all that she hears is "you blame me, i am fat and ugly and you dont love me"? Edited December 31, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Truncate quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 If you guys are caught up in petty disagreement and argument ... then according to Gottman (and common sense) you have a major problem that will destroy the marriage. Gottman identifies four behaviors that will destroy a marriage ... he calls them the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/ Just to take your "toast is burnt" example, I'm assuming you're not doing some scientific experiment in which you are identifying a process of physics with the burnt toast. You are in fact criticizing her and complaining ... She on the other hand is going into defensive mode, rejecting anything you say ... interpreting everything as a criticism ... and not just a mild criticism, but a fundamental criticism of her very being. Either the marriage has made her really insecure ... or you somehow missed this horrible quality when you were dating. Deep insecurities = inability to respond neutrally or constructively to any mildly critical comment. Now lots of factors can lead to that insecurity ... including having a spouse that never praises you for good acts. To answer your question, it's clear to me that you do not have a good marriage. It also seems clear that you have been miserable for quite a while, that for someone reason you just threw up your hands and held your nose and put up with the misery. Sounds like you're now at a breaking point ... where you can't close your eyes and hold your nose anymore. You have options. You can go to therapy ... get clear on your part of this mess ... get stronger, so you feel confident in deciding whether to stay or go ... also to learn what you can do that would lessen her defensiveness. She badly needs counseling--but is way too defensive to go ... You can go to couples counseling together. She might be up for that. Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Sometimes in marriage you simply have to accept your partner flaws, or the things you perceive as flaws. Burnt toast is a non factor. Early in my marriage if I sat something down my wife would swoop down and pick it up then move it to a different location. It was actually a source of alot of arguments. Now it's a none factor because I've accepted she will do it, and I mostly put stuff in places they belong. When I dont and she moves it I just ask where she put it. A healthy marriage is really that simple...accept your partner's flaws, everyone has them. Link to post Share on other sites
Author wtm78 Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: If you guys are caught up in petty disagreement and argument ... then according to Gottman (and common sense) you have a major problem that will destroy the marriage. Gottman identifies four behaviors that will destroy a marriage ... he calls them the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/ Just to take your "toast is burnt" example, I'm assuming you're not doing some scientific experiment in which you are identifying a process of physics with the burnt toast. You are in fact criticizing her and complaining ... She on the other hand is going into defensive mode, rejecting anything you say ... interpreting everything as a criticism ... and not just a mild criticism, but a fundamental criticism of her very being. Either the marriage has made her really insecure ... or you somehow missed this horrible quality when you were dating. Deep insecurities = inability to respond neutrally or constructively to any mildly critical comment. Now lots of factors can lead to that insecurity ... including having a spouse that never praises you for good acts. To answer your question, it's clear to me that you do not have a good marriage. It also seems clear that you have been miserable for quite a while, that for someone reason you just threw up your hands and held your nose and put up with the misery. Sounds like you're now at a breaking point ... where you can't close your eyes and hold your nose anymore. You have options. You can go to therapy ... get clear on your part of this mess ... get stronger, so you feel confident in deciding whether to stay or go ... also to learn what you can do that would lessen her defensiveness. She badly needs counseling--but is way too defensive to go ... You can go to couples counseling together. She might be up for that. How is saying the toast is burnt criticism? I'm just saying next time take out the toast earlier. During dating I can say anything and I don't get that response. She is just happy and still think that I love her no matter what I say. It all started when that a**h*** came to my wedding with a gift 20yrs ago, drunk and made speech. Not about our wedding, but everything about how he and wife were so close and how she is an awesome woman and he always cherish her even brought the gift that he kept 20yrs ago. I ask wife after the wedding what's their relationship, she wouldn't say. Then trust was broken at least for me. We quarrel, I was frustrated I say I need time out and walk off. She just let herself fall and roll down the stairs. That was the day all the sucidal, self harm started Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Wow man, sorry to hear about that beginning ... can you say more about this wedding disaster. OMG. Sorry to hear of that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author wtm78 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 this dude was one of wife's group... when we were dating, everytime he got drunk he will come to me and tell he how lucky i was and what an amazing woman wife is... while drooling... i have asked wife what is their relationship, was he an ex and all.. she always tell me that they were good friends and he is just drunk... but then... he was her dentist... for her whole family... she always say that its just support his business... and i thought she was like that.. because when i first knew her, i was selling kendama.. and she just bought a few from me just to support my sales.. then fast forward -> wedding... -> then the weird wedding speech -> then the rolling down the stairs... - i guess she was afraid that i abandon her... Link to post Share on other sites
jeff0011 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 On 12/20/2019 at 10:15 AM, wtm78 said: What does a Healthy Marriage look like? IF not she would cry uncontrollably.... or blaming me that I didnt talk to her nicely... What I dont understand is, I tried to talk to her nicely and patiently but she doesnt address my concern. And my frustration grows.. and when I start to get agitated then it is my fault that I didnt talk to her nice?.. - I dont know if she is that fragile, or she is just shifting the blame to me.... Is the husband have to give in to the wife for everything? If that is the case, I think I am not marriage material.... I think the guy with the feminism comment was correct to a degree. I don’t think there is a lot of pride amongst many women today to keep a clean home. Cook etc. Or Accept any form of guidance from their man. my ex wife was similar. She might cook once a week, or pick up now and then, and that equated to “I cook every day. I clean every day” so when I would call her out on it, the argument because twisted, sideways, gaslighting, crying etc. maybe spoiled princess syndrome. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 12/31/2019 at 7:31 AM, wtm78 said: what if we cant talk through the problem? like say an innocent conversation like... if i say "hey the toast is burnt.." and all that she hears is "you blame me, i am fat and ugly and you dont love me"? On 12/31/2019 at 5:26 PM, wtm78 said: How is saying the toast is burnt criticism? I'm just saying next time take out the toast earlier. Instead of expecting her to change her approach, why don't you change yours? In the example above - why don't YOU offer to do the toast next time? Link to post Share on other sites
jeff0011 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, OpenBook said: Instead of expecting her to change her approach, why don't you change yours? In the example above - why don't YOU offer to do the toast next time? But isn’t that walking on eggshells? Should we just say some women should be treated like children? I dated women like that and it is miserable. Edited January 6, 2020 by jeff0011 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author wtm78 Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 On 1/6/2020 at 3:30 PM, Cassandra Henson said: No one is perfect. After years of spending time with someone, you’re going to get on their nerves from time to time, and vice versa. This is actually a good thing! It helps us identify our areas of weakness beyond the shadow of a doubt, and remain humble through seeking correction. agree - differences are inevitable. its how the couple resolve the differences that is important.. in my naive mind, i thought we could sit down and say "hey, you know, i was affected by xxx when you did xxx, could you do xxx instead?" and a reply, "oh, sure, i know that is important to you" perhaps i was too idealistic... haha.. Link to post Share on other sites
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