Author Unhappy fool Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 Christmas Day was difficult. I kept imagining them opening gifts together. Sharing a Christmas laugh and joke. Preparing lunch together. of course they were- they are married they have a child. I have no right to be jealous... but I am. It wouldn’t have been difficult to send a simple Happy Christmas message, I am sure he could have managed to get his phone in his hand and text a 10 second message. I don’t know how to tackle this without coming across as needy and crazy. When I read ‘if you want a happy relationship go and find it’. It made me feel a mix of hell yes that completely makes sense to sad how will I ever do that. I know I’ve to let him go. He’s not leaving her. He can’t even 1 minute to send Happy Christmas I’m thinking of you Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 I'm sorry you are hurting OP but I have to say this man isn't using you anymore than you are using him. It's just that you aren't getting enough of what you're using him for. You know he isn't leaving his wife for you whether they have a kid or not. MM rarely leave their wives but always use the kids as the excuse to stay. Even ones without kids rarely leave for an affair partner. You have the power to stop this anytime you want to and always have. You just have to use it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 I don’t feel that I am using him at all. I would love nothing more than a happy loving relationship, where we support each other both highs and lows. Share our thoughts and worries , dreams and desires. It’s incredibly hard to end it. I know it makes sense and is the obvious answer - walk away you’re wrong, you shouldn’t be doing this anyway . I’m so attached I just cannot imagine never ever seeing him again Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Unhappy fool said: It wouldn’t have been difficult to send a simple Happy Christmas message, I am sure he could have managed to get his phone in his hand and text a 10 second message. Maybe, maybe not. It is difficult to say. Maybe she sat next to him all day, maybe she monitors his phone, maybe she has reason not to trust him an inch... maybe you are not his first rodeo... But he didn't want to risk her or his kids finding out by some stupid mistake on his part or some text from you in reply, so he compartmentalised. He was having a great tine as the happy family man and you were safely tucked away in your OW box, waiting patiently for his return... Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Fool I don't doubt that you care for this MM. However I do think that stillafool has a point, in that you may be using this MM and this addictive relationship to avoid dealing with the tough issues in your life. My A ended a few months before my d-day. After d-day, I found myself looking up xAP on social media all the time, even though by then I had no interest in him anymore. I wondered, why am I doing this? What is wrong with me? I finally realized I was cyber-stalking him to escape the reality of my own life, which was in shambles, a creation of my own making. I looked for any escape I could from facing my reality. As for moving forward, don't think about it in terms of "forever." That's just way too overwhelming and scary. Think of things this way: I am not going to contact him today. You can do one day, you are strong enough. Then the next morning, you say again: I am not going to contact him today. Think in small steps, small steps forward to a stronger and healthier you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Unhappy fool said: I don’t feel that I am using him at all. I would love nothing more than a happy loving relationship, where we support each other both highs and lows. Share our thoughts and worries , dreams and desires. It’s incredibly hard to end it. I know it makes sense and is the obvious answer - walk away you’re wrong, you shouldn’t be doing this anyway . I’m so attached I just cannot imagine never ever seeing him again You too are married and haven't left your husband, why not? If your willing to be in a relationship with this guy why are you still with your husband...enough with the platonic stuff and for the kid. Why? Because if MM says let's go you would walk away, right? So why not just walk away period? In being honest with yourself about your real reason for staying married should really go a long way in answering if your using him as much as he is using you. What I dont get is your hurt and anger, you know the situation and you chose to stay involved. So how is he using you and you not using him? After all you are a MW who isnt leaving messing around with a MM who isnt leaving, what's the difference? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Unhappy fool said: I would love nothing more than a happy loving relationship, where we support each other both highs and lows. Share our thoughts and worries , dreams and desires. You think you are going to get this from this lying cheat of a man? I’m sure that’s what his wife was hoping for when they said their vows, and how did that work out for her? Her husband is texting and having sex with another woman when he is supposed to be working... You think you will be different - especially when he leaves his marriage and he has an angry ex-wife, he’s lost half his wealth and pays her spousal and child support for years and years to come, his child is having difficulty adjusting to the divorce, and he now has to deal with two women making demands on him... How is life going to be, when your guy is stressed out, feeling pressured, and seeking escape - oh wait, his coping strategy for dealing with the stresses of life is to find another woman who will offer sex and adoration... Really, really think about the reality of this situation. Is this guy going to be able to give you what you want? He certainly hasn’t done so yet... Edited December 26, 2019 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TinyCastle Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 It seems on the surface to be so easy to send you a holiday greeting. And if he wasn't married with kids, it would be. But what you cannot know is how difficult it may be for someone who's entire compartmentalization strategy depends on being fully present at home when at home. Could he sneak a message out without someone knowing? Of course. But that's not what is stopping him. It's the risk that the emotional walls he has built to separate you from his family will start crumbling down. He can't allow you and your needs to enter his dedicated family space. It's a self-preservation tactic. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about you. It just means you are not his first priority. But of course you are not. By definition, you are the other woman. This is sadly what comes with the territory. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 8 hours ago, TinyCastle said: But that's not what is stopping him. It's the risk that the emotional walls he has built to separate you from his family will start crumbling down. He can't allow you and your needs to enter his dedicated family space. It's a self-preservation tactic. Or maybe, it’s the risk of getting caught that stops him. Unlike many married men, this man has put clear boundaries around this relationship. That can only be because nothing and no one is going to threaten his marriage/family life. Despite his obvious decision to engage in an extramarital affair, he is also clearly trying to protect his marriage/family from the threat of discovery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TinyCastle Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) On 12/23/2019 at 11:27 AM, BaileyB said: sorry Agree, Bailey. I think these are two sides of the same coin. He is protecting his marriage from discovery at all cost. That means being careful with his actions to not arouse suspicion, and being careful with his emotions. If the wall starts to crumble and he cannot compartmentalize successfully, she’ll get suspicious and he’ll get sloppy. Or, his guilt will rise up and erode the benefit of the affair to him in the first place. Edited December 27, 2019 by TinyCastle Spelling Link to post Share on other sites
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 Thank you once again for your advice, thoughts and opinions. I assure you I’m reading and trying to take them on board. They absolutely all make perfect sense, I certainly agree that I have some issues myself that I need to address- my self worth and confidence being one. I also need to sort the issues with my daughters father. Whilst we just cohabit I guess I’ve become reliant on the fact that he’s another ‘body’ in the home. It’s very odd in that we sleep in separate beds, we don’t really talk beyond things about our child. Yet I don’t want to be alone ( as in only adult) in the house. MM said he’d leave his wife tomorrow if it was just them . But then later he did say about upsetting his mum, giving her half of his business and savings, half the house etc . He does also have children from a previous marriage. Sorry if the next bit comes across muddled just going to type as comes into my head:- do I tell him that I am unhappy he can just go days without speaking. That he can’t even send me a single message on Christmas Day. That he forgot my birthday 2 years in a row and that hurt. That it hurts that he picks me up when he wants and ignores me when he’s ‘busy’. That when I said I was lonely and sad and missed him- he said I turned him in, I made him happy and feel alive. That I made him feel like no one else ever has.... if this is the case why isn’t he with me. Or do I just try to ignore if and when he sends a text message!?? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) Personally, I would send him a text that said - “I’m sorry, but I can not see you anymore. I wish you well.” And then I would block him. I don’t care how he responds - it would not change my decision to end it. I would send the text for me, not for him. I think if you send a text telling how unhappy you are with all the examples of times you felt he should have done something that he didn’t... well, I think it makes you look weak and desperate and I don’t think it will make any difference to him. He has demonstrated time and again that his primary concern is for himself and his family. I think you will be sadly disappointed yet again with with his response. Personally, I would keep my dignity. And even if he does respond to say “I’m sorry, things will change. I will do what you want...” What do you actually gain? You are still in a relationship with a lying cheat of a man who is married to another woman and not going anywhere... Do what if he sends you a happy birthday text - it means nothing relative to the things that really matter in life... Edited December 27, 2019 by BaileyB 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 I’d really want to keep what little dignity I have. I certainly don’t want to come across as pathetic and needy. You are right giving examples only shows me in a bad light. The fact that I would have been happy with a text for my birthday shows how little by little I’ve accepted less and less where the crumbs now feel like a banquet. I guess I’d always thought that I’d have be really prepared for the end in that if I said please don’t contact me he wouldn’t- I am sure he’d be a gentleman and say ok I respect your wishes so there’d be no need to block. Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 On 12/24/2019 at 7:41 AM, Unhappy fool said: Whilst I was unable to sleep I wrote him a letter. A letter I shall never send I suspect - or at least without a lot of editing. I asked why he why he was ok whilst I was broken. Why he could have special events /trips away without giving me a thought. Knowing he cannot or will not contact me whilst he’s away, I can’t understand why he would book 3 weeks travelling knowing we couldn’t talk. I also went into lots of examples of times when I feel sad and unhappy. Things he’s said and done to make me feel used and worthless. There was one occasion just before Easter when he was due to go on a family trip. I messaged and asked for a call ( I aren’t allowed to phone him). He didn’t call so I sent a message 5-6 hours later and said I’d miss him but wished him a good time and said I hoped he would return relaxed and refreshed. He didn’t reply and it really hurt - I knew this would be the last chance to talk for 2 weeks yet he didn’t talk the chance to hear my voice too. When he returned I told him how it made me feel and he shouted at me for the first time. Told me how incredibly unattractive it was. He didn’t have to answer to me and I was absolutely pathetic and ridiculous. He was busy and he had to prioritise. I was indeed pathetic and asked why he couldn’t have phoned me on the way home/phoned me whilst on the way to the bathroom or even whilst eating lunch if work was so busy. His reaction upset me so much I’ve never really tackled him about anything once. the flip side is he can make me feel like the most amazing person in the world. Sorry this is long again. I apologise for using this as a opportunity to spill out what is in my head He has made it absolutely clear you are not his priority...not by a long shot. When you tackle him...he tells you that in no uncertain terms. This man isn't leading you on...you are responsible for the position you find yourself in. I suggest you ignore him from now onwards. Block his number and find other sources of happiness. This is not a MM who has any intention of leaving his family...he loves being with them. Ignoring him will hurt his ego. Link to post Share on other sites
Hip Pocket Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 On 12/22/2019 at 12:01 PM, Finding my way said: You'll walk away when you've had enough - enough of the heartbreak and feeling of being unwanted. Everyone has their breaking point - you just haven't found yours. I hope you reach it soon. After the holidays he will probably pop back in again and have time for you. Remember how you're feeling right now when that happens and don't get lulled into thinking everything is ok. Interesting statement about being lulled into feeling ok, but that’s just the ebb and flow of these relationships. Any relationship really because they all ebb and flow. Unhappy Fool, it will get better and once you’ve been at this for several years you’ll have looked back and realized that it was all fine, and that the ebb and flow is regular enough to feel secure in. While most MP feel secure in the daily interaction that comes with obligation, APs feel secure in the obligation-free and beautiful choice to always return. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share Posted December 28, 2019 Do you think that since he goes to massive lengths to ensure I don’t message when he’s home or with his children it shows that he doesn’t even think of me when he’s home. I wake up and go to sleep thinking of him. I cannot understand why he doesn’t miss me if he cares - therefore common sense says he doesn’t care. So why spend 3 years seeing me.... why say it’s only because of his daughter and mum and his business that he won’t leave. About 18 months ago I said I wanted to see him more, needed more than just work day contact. He told me to hang in there and we’d be together eventually- it was just a long haul journey rather than a sprint Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 This is standard married man talk, to keep you on the hook. It’s so typical, you could say it’s textbook. He knows what you want to hear, and he wants more sex... This man may or may not care for you, but he has no intention of leaving his wife. Do with that information what you may... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 People who end up with two long term "lovers", tend to like it that way. Usually both bring different things to the party but neither is really "enough" on their own, hence no definitive choice is made. Cost benefit analysis, wife or OW or both? Both usually wins, unless the wife is truly awful and/or the OW is exceptional. Here he has a wife he cherishes and he has you on the side, it works for him, he doesn't want to change anything, he doesn't need to change anything. His wife is oblivious and you have accepted your lot. Once an OW is hooked and "in love", he knows she is going nowhere... He just needs to toss a few breadcrumbs in her direction every now and again... to calm her down and keep her on side. She loves him, she will believe almost anything... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share Posted December 28, 2019 We are completely different in looks and I think personalities (from things he says) he’s never said anything awful about her just that they married too quickly/he was lonely/she’s a nice woman and as he was lonely he settled for nice. I don’t want to annoy anyone or over use my welcome. I know it’s incredibly frustrating to be shouting hey he doesn’t want you, look at all the evidence- end it, to only hear buttttt I love him but... I keep flipping from upset that I’ve been stupid enough to fall for someone who I knew was married. Disgusted at myself for what I’ve done. Then thinking she knows nothing about me so isn’t hurting and he won’t leave she she’ll never know. To wondering why he picks her not me. i know I’m setting myself up here for a barrage of comments about how awful I am. He text me today- he said he may pop into work at some point but didn’t say when. I assume that since I got a message he’d gone into work. After 4 days of no contact it said ‘Happy Christmas 🎄 XX’. I replied Thank you, I wish you the same - I’ve never replied like that, I always ask how he is, or how’s work or something about a thing he’s mentioned recently - like how did he meeting go/how was the game etc etc. He didn’t reply and now I’ve spent hours worrying it was a delayed message that didn’t deliver before Christmas and I’ve replied and now I’ve made him mad. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Unhappy fool, this is really no way to live... You should be able to be with the one you love at Christmas. You should be able to send him a text without worrying that he is angry with you... Why do you chose this for yourself? Link to post Share on other sites
Daisydooks Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 On 12/22/2019 at 4:38 PM, Unhappy fool said: I need to gather some strength the obvious says end it. You are nothing more than the one who boosts his ego, I make him feel desired and fulfil his wishes on demand. I have to cease to exist, cease to have feelings and needs ( emotionally) when he is busy or with his family. I know I must feel slightly different about the dynamics as I am here. One of the wake up points was when he forgot my birthday- I didn’t want a gift or even a card. A phone call wishing me a happy birthday would’ve made my day. When I told him it upset me he forgot again- he said I made him feel bad and wouldn’t contact for a while. So I relented and told him it wasn’t important and that birthdays meant nothing to me. If I end it I know he will say he’s respects my wishes and will never contact me again. What if only I’d have hung on a little longer, long enough for him to fall in love with me and realise he can’t be without me. What if I jump to soon Not to worry, most men dont leave anyhow so dont hold your breath and hang on thinking you're different. You arent. I say this in this manner because it sounds kike you need someone to be super honest. I don't mean to be harsh or mean whatsoever. You are not special. You are simply a void filler. You leave, he will replace you. One thing remains though..... he will stay married so long as his wife doesnt leave him. He has no reason to leave his cake eating life and if he was going to, he'd have done it long before now. A VERY TEENY percentage of MM leave to be with their AP. You have better luck playing the lottery or getting hit by lightning. A solid majority stay married and if they do divorce, they seldom divorce and end up with their AP. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Like so many unhappy OWs your unhappiness is founded on not getting your own way. You steamrollered into the middle of their marriage. You lapped up the validation, the compliments, the attention, the sex... you were flying high. He may have said he was never leaving his wife, but that was so obviously not true, was it? He said he loved you, he was besotted with you, you KNEW he would be leaving... You just needed to stick around, and he would be yours. Only the plan isn't working. Whilst you have fallen deeper and deeper into love, he is now taking you for granted. After 3 years you are left waiting around and ignored, whilst he gets on with his life tending to his family... He is not interested in your problems or complaints... He signed up for an extra marital affair, he does not want to be your agony aunt... Now you are sad, angry, frustrated, disappointed and upset that basically he is not being the man you wanted him to be... BUT an affair is rarely a portal into a real relationship. that is the big mistake you made. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/27/2019 at 4:22 PM, Unhappy fool said: do I tell him that I am unhappy he can just go days without speaking. That he can’t even send me a single message on Christmas Day. That he forgot my birthday 2 years in a row and that hurt. That it hurts that he picks me up when he wants and ignores me when he’s ‘busy’. That when I said I was lonely and sad and missed him- he said I turned him in, I made him happy and feel alive. That I made him feel like no one else ever has.... if this is the case why isn’t he with me. Or do I just try to ignore if and when he sends a text message!?? The problem here is that you don't understand the rules or your place. You are to be silent until you here from him for another go at it. Simple as that. BTW, on Christmas day weren't you also opening presents with your family? Why are you angry that he was doing the same? Makes no sense to me. Plus in addition to enjoying Christmas with his family he may have had last minute errands to run for his wife as they may have had company for dinner or something. I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect more on this holiday. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, stillafool said: The problem here is that you don't understand the rules or your place. You are to be silent until you here from him for another go at it. Simple as that. Very true. He signed up for an extramarital affair. She signed up for an extramarital affair, hoping and believing it was going to turn into a relationship. As Elaine said, he’s not interested in your problems or complaints. Which is why I say, don’t tell him how you are feeling because he is likely to ignore your feelings and that will hurt terribly. Why do I say that? Because, he shuts you down all the time - he puts boundaries on your communication/time together, withdraws if you start to demand anything more, and he gets angry if you intrude on his family life. The rules of this game - you are to be available to him, at his convenience, during work hours. A man who creates these rules isn’t leaving his wife for his affair partner... As some of the male posters say, married men have it so easy. They may wine and dine a woman, throw out a few compliments and/or gifts, have sex with her and tell her how beautiful/special she is to him, make a few promises that “someday” he will leave his wife and they will be together - and the women usually take it from there... (to be fair, some usually single men will do the same thing when they become involved with a married women). they tend to build him up in ways that even he can’t imagine and begin to create this fantasy relationship for the two of them... However, we see it all the time on this site, if the OW gets too caught up in this fantasy and forgets her place, that gets a little scary for the MM. It usually means the end of the relationship, as the OW gets dropped faster than she knows. That’s pretty much what’s happening here. You have taken what is essentially a workplace affair for him and created a fantasy. You are starting to challenge your thinking but you are still very much caught up in the fantasy, and if you forget your place and start to place demands - he’s going to say “This isn’t worth it anymore. Too much stress. Too much risk.” Edited December 29, 2019 by BaileyB 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Unhappy fool Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 I am not angry at him for opening gifts with his children. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to expect a merry Christmas message. Yes I exchanged gifts with people, but I wasn’t busy for 24 hours. I messaged a few friends to wish them a good day, so I don’t think spending 10-15 mins wishing people a good day is beyond the reach of people on Christmas Day. I certainly don’t think it would be excessive for him to pick up his phone at some point to say Happy Christmas. you are right in that I have my place and my place to him is to sit and wait until he clicks his fingers. Yes I am stupid, yes I have messed up big time. Yes I’ve brought this all on myself but it still hurts Link to post Share on other sites
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