Kindness is not needed??

[Creampuff]

I'm sorry if I kept talking about this topic, but yeaa it troubles me every now and then

We catholic believe in Trinity, which we always said "in the name of father, and son, and holy spirit".

Other religions do have different beliefs, for example how the muslims didn't believe in trinity, but only in Allah, and I'm fine with that, they've got their own belief, and I got my belief.

But thing is, Indonesians sometimes won't chill with religion related problems. I want to hang out with 3 of my friends, one of them is muslim, and the other is Christian and Catholic. But me and my Catholic friend have to go to church. So we ask 2 of our friend to just hangout together first while waiting for us. But they said that it's hot outside so they prefer to wait inside the church because there are ac in there and we let them in, they don't want to sit together with us tho, my Christian friend said that they don't want to disturb the prayer, so they'd just wait on the backside of the church.

After I finish with church, we hang out, nothing special particulary happened. When I walked home, I was on the same direction with my muslim friend. After sayinh goodbye to 2 of my other friend, we started walking. He then started mentioning about my church and in my head I was like "ugh, I know this won't end well"

He said something like "no wonder my mom transferred to muslim from catholic, all of your teachings are wrong and you know, the things you read on bible, that thing had been modified, so most of the things on bible were wrong from the start" I laugh it off at first. Not that kind of "I laugh because it's funny" but the laugh of "can we stop talking about this 😐😐😐"

He then said "why do you believe in Trinity then?? There's only one Allah" I then proceed with explaining (I'm not good with this thing), it's just like the sun, there are three parts, the sun itself, the heat, and the light, or a coffee, where there are the coffee itself, but to make it even better, you put milk and sugar in it. So as for me I do believe in Allah, but I believe in Jesus, son of God and holy spirits as well as part of Allah. 

But I guess he refused my analogy and stated that it's not logical, God can't have children, can't be divided, and having belief like me is wrong and could ended up in hell.

I tried not to get too stress out, because my blood pressure is really bad, if I get angry, I would have to consume some meds, and I don't bring one with me right now. I then continued with,

"well, that's your belief, I have my own belief, in fact rather than debating about stuff like this which will end up with our race being divided, wouldn't you think it's better to do other good stuff, you know I enjoyed volunteering for the church, helping the homeless.." 

"Doing little stuffs like this would help to make the world a better place in my opinion. But fighting for who's right and who's wrong, will only start conflicts, and I guess if you think that you're the most righteous one, doesn't that mean you've already done something wrong, which is having too much pride and being arrogant to think that you're the most righteous one. I do believe that my belief is true, but I don't despise your belief"

"Hey, my Amah (grandma) is Catholic, and she's the kindest person I know, she would help out the church, volunteer, she loves cooking, and giving them to the homeless and baking cakes for children in the orphanage, they all enjoyed Amah's homemade food, I guess I learn a few stuff from her, see that, doing good simple stuffs like that helps not only those who needed but also your future generation will learn a few kindness from you. When my Amah died, I cried, but mom said that it'll be okay, Amah will go to heaven, because Amah is such a nice person, and I strive to be like my Amah, pretty sure she's in heaven right now"

And ohhh was I wrong to blabber things like that

He then said "helping others?? Yes it's important, but even satan's cult could do that, the worst thing you've done is you believe in Trinity, you don't believe in Allah as the only God, small kindness won't help you go to heaven just like that, your belief is the most unforgiveable one, you sure your Amah ends up in heaven?? Because she's a Catholic."

My eyes started to tearing up a bit because he mentioned bad things about my Amah and how kindness is not important

"Catholics like you even viewed us muslims as terrorist, thinking we're arrogant, we're just trying to save you guys from the hell, why do you guys refuse, you only need to stop believing in your wrong belief"

I was shocked, I see many terrorists in the news, but I never viewed muslims as terrorists. Just like us Catholics, there are good Catholics, and there are bad ones. So do Muslims, so I never viewed my muslim friends as terrorist, that's horrible

I then started to feel dizzy, because he keeps getting the stress out of me, and there are lots of people here, I can't stand the crowd

"Hey could we not talk about this, I don't feel well, and I don't bring any meds with me."

"Oh now you want to run away from our discussion, you get sick like this because you don't believe in Allah, infidel like you deserve that, that's why you should stop believing in that Trinity stuffs, it's the thing that makes you sick you know, for example, I had never been sick, because I have the right belief"

I then fainted, the crowd, heat, dizziness, and stress took me out. The next thing I knew I was with my Catholic and Christian friend, they carried me and told me they've been following me because they had a bad feeling about that guy friend of mine. My Christian friend said from the start of the mass, while she's standing on the backside of the church, my muslim friend had started blabbering stuff like

"ugh catholic, don't you see how they put statues of Jesus, they worship the statue, don't you think that's wrong" 

She then replied with, "well, they prayed to God not the statue"

But he just shrug it off, and not saying a single word after that, she's suspicious about him when walk together so decided to follow us by hiding amongst the crowd.

I then went to my friend's house because it's the closest one, let's call her Putri. She's also an Indonesian and in fact she's a muslim. When we arrived, she had already preparred some cold packs for me (my Catholic friend had called her beforehand, to tell me I need some help). Then I can see that kindness is important just like what I belief and that's what the world need rather that debating. I mean look, inside this room there are, catholics, muslim, and christian, and we get along well.

Is my belief wrong and that kindness is not something necessary? I mean, I was kind of hurt when that guy mentioned that even Satan's cult could do kindness, so kindness is not as important as transferring to muslim. 

But really, I kind of want to know your thoughts about this problem

[Libby1]

I think kindness is a good quality, but it's important to combine it with the ability to stand up for yourself otherwise there's a strong chance that people will sense weakness and walk all over you.  I think the upsetting interactions you've had with your friend are an indication of that.  Developing a combination of kindness and firmness will make it a lot easier for you to respond to his comments along the lines of "I see it very differently from you, and to be honest I don't see this conversation leading to anything productive. You're not going to convert me,  and if we're to stay friends then it would be a really good idea for you to stop trying.  The references to Satan and terrorism aren't helping."

But that won't necessarily stop him being aggressive.  All you can do is lay down your boundaries and walk away if he keeps insisting on crossing them.   I don't think this is a religious thing so much as it's a "your friend having a controlling personality and using religion as a tool to express those controlling traits" thing.

I saw, though, that you had another thread where you talked about another Muslim friend trying to throw out certain items in your fridge that she disapproved of.  It sounds as though you're part of a multi-faith group of friends and it also sounds as though your respective religions feature quite heavily in your interactions.  Do you live in a region where religion plays a strong social role generally?

Edited December 28, 2019 by Libby1

[Daisydooks]

I think you should stop allowing friends and men like this into your life. Your posts are super scary from this, to your muslim boyfriend making you convert (not asking but forcing you,) to your friend who went through your fridge and started to throw out all of the food. These people are not religious. They are bat s*** insane. 

Where did you meet these people? 

I respect that people have their beliefs, unless and until they become scary and unhealthy beliefs being put on the shoulders of others, where they are harming someone. These people are not healthy for you. Stop all of the friendships you have had with these insane people. It is HORRIBLY scary reading your posts and I genuinely worry for your safety around them because of your beliefs. What worries me most is you dont have the self confidence to stand up and tell them to back off and stop being controlling 

You simply are mot allowed to feel or believe what you do and thats super scary. These people are not your friends. They are your enemies  

This is borderline insane. This is sick and twisted behaviour. 

[basil67]

On 12/28/2019 at 8:16 PM, Creampuff said:

 

 

Kindness and religion have no connection, so don't bother trying to use this to win the argument.   

If you want to argue your point, tell him that you have your own faith, that you respect his faith and expect to have your faith respected in return.   If he won't do it, then remove him from your life.   It really is this black and white.

[todreaminblue]

i believe that the way you treat people is about your own humanity that you will be held accountable for on the most important day in the future to become history ... and i feel to treat people with kindness is a god given gift that holds us as close as sons and daughters of god .for who could ever be kinder ...than god and his beloved son....thats my belief....

...you can physically feel kindness in your heart...for me i feel, its the warmth of the spirit that makes your heart swell with desire to be kind, warmth, with a real need to be kind to release the spirit on to someone who needs that spirit with them as much as you do......

ask the spirit to walk with you when you face adversity  and  to soothe the war in your heart and the war in theirs...ask god for help for you to find the words to touch their heart with truth and compassion..........its sometimes harder to be kind when you differ on the side of religion, because faith is so close to the heart ...ingrained in the heart i would say......so personal and beautiful and pure to everyone who holds a different faith

i found a post on facebook i posted to my wall that is really quite beautiful...ill leave it with you.....

"For though my faith is not yours,and your faith is not mine if we are each free to light our own flame,we can banish some of the darkness of the world...."Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks

 

ask a person who is not of your faith what is most beautiful about their faith or what do they love the most about their faith...ask them about hard times faith has reigned supreme in their life...build a library in your head on why faith is important to us all in different ways and .......find common ground based in beautiful thoughts and sentiments....

 

best wishes....deb 

Edited January 8, 2020 by todreaminblue
dyslexic typist

[Ronni_W]

On 12/28/2019 at 4:16 AM, Creampuff said:

He then said "helping others?? Yes it's important, but even satan's cult could do that, the worst thing you've done is you believe in Trinity, you don't believe in Allah as the only God, small kindness won't help you go to heaven just like that,

Jesus believed in only one God, whom he referred to as 'Father' most of the time, as the only God.

The God Quality that we need to be aspiring to manifest on Earth, is Love, not kindness...although kindness can, of course, be part of Love.

When a selfish person or a satanist does something that appears to be kind, it usually is for selfish reasons or to manipulate others; so, we should recognize that that is not actually 'kindness' in the true sense and spirit of the word.

Your friend's spiritual understanding is not at a very high level, but, at the same time, yours also is not well-developed enough, which is why you feel uncertain when defending your own beliefs or when having to have the courage of your convictions.    I would recommend the book, Jesus the Last Great Initiate, translated by F. Rothwell. I was able to download a free PDF version.

Wishing you the best in your spiritual search.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Ronni_W
Clarification