Can't understand relationships when in them

[spiderowl]

I hope some of you amazingly understanding people can help me out of of this confused mental state I find myself in.

 

I sort of got involved in a non-relationship.  I say 'non-relationship' because it was never defined though we did go out on dates I suppose, visited places, and it did get physical after a long time.  My friend is older than me by a few years so I do feel a bit of a generational gap though I don't think he does.

 

I have enjoyed going out places but did have some doubts.  The doubts relate to various things that I feel are incompatibilities - like he is an early bird and I am not, he has an interest in an eastern religion - not a problem except that it is clearly more than an interest and dominates his thinking, he seems to think that incompatibilities are not a problem, that one should work out a compromise, he is very much into organic foods and ethical eating and I don't want that to dominate my life, he avoids medication and doctors though has some problems that I would really advise he see his doctor about (persistent cough for example).  We seem to end up having the same conversations over again which is ways in which he thinks people need to review their behaviour and change.  My feeling is that people don't change deep down, but we differ on this.  I don't know why we end up having these kinds of conversations but it feels like some weird battle is going on.  He seems to find it interesting trying to change people.

 

So I don't want to end up in what feels like power struggles; I feel this should not be necessary.   I don't even understand why it is happening.  I told him I don't want to talk about something that particularly upsets me at the moment (unconnected to him) and he said this is exactly what we should talk about.  It is something I am not managing to do because I feel overwhelmed with life at the moment (I suffer from depression and other health issues).  I have said in the past that it is something that upsets me so I would have thought any considerate person would leave it at that but he seems to see it as a challenge.  I almost feel like he is testing me out in some way, being provocative by talking about things that he thinks I should deal with.  Fair enough if I'd got involved with this because I wanted him to challenge me but I just want a peaceful loving and supportive relationship.

 

I have health issues, as I've mentioned above.  They have made life very difficult for many years.  There is little help to be had from the health services because they don't know the cause of the problems, so I take medications to reduce pain and enable me to carry on. I live quite a limited life in lots of ways though.  I do not expect this guy to share these problems and warned him beforehand that I had health issues.  He seems to think they are 'all in the mind' and that it's how one reacts to such things that matters.  I am not remotely impressed by this attitude and for that reason alone, I feel this 'relationship' cannot work.  He seems to think it does not matter that our views differ on this but it is absolutely fundamental.  The fact that he seems to think our incompatible views could somehow work if we compromise does not make sense to me.  Am I missing something?  

 

I spoke to him today and ended up feeling depressed and annoyed.  He talks and does not listen.  I start to say something and he leaps in with his views on things.  I have to continue to talk over him in order for him to realise I am still speaking.  I would say he speaks 95% of the time.  I know all these issues matter but I feel very confused.  We have had good times just going out to the seaside and walking around places.  We have had conversations that are not fixed on the above issues and he has seemed open-minded.  He does not see a problem and I do.  

 

I am sad that I am having to give up on this, even though I have been putting him off for quite a while now, saying we are incompatible.  He has faith in things working out somehow and up until recently he seemed to want them to - I don't know how he feels now as I have barely been in touch over the holidays.  There is no alternative relationship for me, I won't want one.  I'm too fed up of guys who are weird, dominating, smelly, who are seeking to satisfy their fetishes whatever they are, or who are married and seeking to play away.  Because of my health problems, I pretty much gave up going out so don't meet people socially much.  Even when I did go out, I rarely met anyone I felt anything for and if I did there was usually a problem.  I don't know, it all seems so depressing.  I can see why women give up on relationships though.  I have felt this guy was interested in me and has taken a lot of trouble to meet up with me, but I have rarely felt he cared about me or understood me, more that he wanted a 'mate' to go out with and share things with.

 

I suppose this is a kind of a rant but if any of this makes sense to you, it would really help me to understand what is happening here.  You are remarkably perceptive.  Thank you.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by spiderowl

[alterest]

Religious reasons are not the problem until they are. Everyone starts with that "it's not a problem...we can handle that" and after a while it become a problem. Same for political view and for concepts in life (like being a veggie or not trust on medicine). And why he wants to change someone? Isn't love supposed to be easier than that? We stay with somebody until they change into something that we don't want to be with, but start something trying to change someone?! I can't see any future from that. Incompatibilities are not all bad, they show us a world of experiences... But there are certain limits... One thing is you eat same meal everyday and your partner cook something different sometimes, or you like some kind of movie and your partner another... But should have an intersection of tastes somewhere. And, as far as you showed here, there's none or at least a little intersection of tastes here.

He avoids doctor and medicines, why do you think he will have any empaty for your depression? He probably minimize your problem in his head.

Both of you looks like incompatible in any aspect of life. Why are you trying to make it work?

Focusing on you right now. Not every guy over there are horrible, but you only discover that when you met someone trully. I know having no one in a row of a relationship makes everything pretty hard, but the pain will make you more stronger than you are right now. It's hard to lose someone, even when we can't see any future. 

Don't talk to him, but do that for your own sanity. Relationships are supposed to be easier. Problems will appear sometime, but some problems are big red flags that we need to be watchful. And, by your report, this guys showed to you a lot of them.

[basil67]

Yeah, I wouldn't last with him either.  He sounds like one of those older guys who seek to pass on their wisdom.  Ugh.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what you're confused about - it sounds like a straight up case of incompatibility to me.  But I wonder if perhaps you're confused because there have been some good times too.  Thing is, no relationship is 100% bad.  Even people in really abusive relationships have good times too and this is what can make leaving so hard - they focus on the good times and hope that it stays that way. 

I don't know...perhaps I'm not much help.  We might tease it out as more people respond.

[alterest]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Thing is, no relationship is 100% bad.  Even people in really abusive relationships have good times too and this is what can make leaving so hard - they focus on the good times and hope that it stays that way. 

Totally agree with you!!

[spiderowl]

Thank you, I am beginning to feel I'm not going mad after all!

I think I'm confused because he has such confidence that the things I see as incompatibilities are not.  He seems to think it's a matter of working through things.  I just feel I don't want to work through anything because there are some things I cannot compromise on.

Then again, I don't know why it is confusing.  He seemed keen and interested but I guess this is not enough.  I find him physically attractive and he has gone to a lot of trouble to see me.  Others would have given up a lot sooner.  I know that still doesn't mean we are compatible but it does add to the mix, as if I am the one who is being difficult somehow.

[alterest]

@spiderowl Sometimes people are charming enough to drag us to their believes. If you see those things as incompatibles, belive in your gut, they probably are. It's a matter of working through things when something bad happened, not to resolve something that is intrinsic of someone. Usually, the "working through" is the other change to fit (here, the problem of religion and politic view are more evident). Nothing good come from that.

You don't have to work through anything if you won't. Go easy on yourself and everything will be fine.

It's pretty difficult, especially when things that you relate happened. But, as you feel, is not enough. The mix os feeling that you feel right now is totally understandable, but you feel that is something wrong and you rationalize enough about this to know that it's a dead end.

[basil67]

Would I be right in guessing that the incompatibilities to work through would mostly involve change and acceptance on your part?  He doesn't sound like the type who would change any of his views for you.   

[Lotsgoingon]

As soon as you described the conversations ... I was like, "this ain't gonna work."

Contrasting philosophies of life. I am critical of western medicine. No way will I seriously date someone who doesn't go to doctors. No effing way. I've had people in my family have strokes and other issues that could have been avoided with good medical care ... 

Repeating the same conversations--these are not conversations ... he seems to be preaching and just talking ... there is no exchange going on. I'm confused about why you think this relationship has any possibility at all. He has already gotten on your nerves. You know exactly what this guy will say in any situation ... You know he doesn't get your thinking.

You do make a mistake here: the more time you spend with someone (especially if you feel lonely or isolated) often the more invested in them and a relationship you become. Once you discovered this guy repeating himself on date #2, cut things off right then. Nothing good comes from spending more time together.  Look how conflicted you are about a relationship that clearly has no possibilities.

Trust your critical instincts more. 

 

[spiderowl]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Would I be right in guessing that the incompatibilities to work through would mostly involve change and acceptance on your part?  He doesn't sound like the type who would change any of his views for you.   

To be honest, I don't know, but I'd need to eat similar things while with him.  I don't see how he would compromise on some things either.  He is trying to understand me but he seems to think if I only changed my way of thinking and reacting to negative thoughts that I would feel much better.  I wish it were that simple.  If it were, half the world would not be on painkillers!

[spiderowl]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

As soon as you described the conversations ... I was like, "this ain't gonna work."

Contrasting philosophies of life. I am critical of western medicine. No way will I seriously date someone who doesn't go to doctors. No effing way. I've had people in my family have strokes and other issues that could have been avoided with good medical care ... 

Repeating the same conversations--these are not conversations ... he seems to be preaching and just talking ... there is no exchange going on. I'm confused about why you think this relationship has any possibility at all. He has already gotten on your nerves. You know exactly what this guy will say in any situation ... You know he doesn't get your thinking.

You do make a mistake here: the more time you spend with someone (especially if you feel lonely or isolated) often the more invested in them and a relationship you become. Once you discovered this guy repeating himself on date #2, cut things off right then. Nothing good comes from spending more time together.  Look how conflicted you are about a relationship that clearly has no possibilities.

Trust your critical instincts more. 

 

Thank you.  I hope I haven't misrepresented him.  It's not that he doesn't go to the doctors, just has to see a real need to.  He does not take my concern or suggestions seriously.  He does try to understand and questions himself - I think this is why I am so confused.  Despite my not showing any great interest in the eastern philosophy (though I am not uninterested, I will listen and learn where I can), everything he says is based on ideas from that philosophy.  I have in the past asked him about it but he has not asked me about my ideas or beliefs.  He seems very defensive as if he has to be surrounded by it and push it towards me most of the time.  I'm not a threat to these ideas, just don't feel the need for them myself.

I suppose the way I am thinking seems unfair, considering the efforts he has made to see me and to plan days out.  I feel as if I must be an ungrateful creature but I cannot see a way forward.

 

[alterest]

Need to eat similar food?! Making you confuse?! Not take you seriously?! Indifference in your ideas and beliefs?! None of those things are good to keep a relationship. I take every one of those things as a red flag that lead to a toxic relationship. And, come on, there's no 'fair' and 'unfair' here, don't take it as a reasonable motive to stay in something you don't want to.

I know you care about him and even if you love him, everything that happened are reasons to avoid a relationship with him. He must be a good guy somehow, but you don't match with him and you know that.

[basil67]

Why do you need to eat similar foods when with him?   I get that at home, it's easier to cook one meal, but if you're at a restaurant, what happens if you order something he doesn't approve of?

[spiderowl]

3 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Thank you all for your words of wisdom.   I can't seem to stop this response page from copying previous postings in - must be doing something wrong!

I would need to eat the same or similar as him because he is vegetarian and mostly vegan.  I used to be vegetarian but I am not any more, though I eat little meat.  From his point of view, it is easy for me to eat veggie when with him.  It is not just veggie though, it is organic, non-dairy when possible, and basically every complication you can think of.  I know I might be exagerating a bit but it is quite a few stages away from how I normally live and eat.  I find it unnecessarily complicated.  I have every respect for his life choices but do not wish to share them.

 

I suppose I feel guilty because he has been making a lot of effort to spend time with me and I have not been very encouraging because of my concerns over incompatibility.  He must think I'm really unhelpful and difficult.

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[basil67]

Making a lot of effort to spend time with you is a tick in his favour.  But a person needs to have many ticks to make them worth staying with.

[Ellener]

If you're incompatible that's the end of it.

I don't go to doctors much either, living in the US with for-profit medicine it's just not a great idea for being well. The doctors will make unrealistic 'fix all' promises with invasive procedures in an environment which is no longer infection-free so holistic care such as advocated in other philosophies/models does work better here in my experience. Yet every little thing people will tell me to go get medical treatment, which when I do almost always results in worse health and some kind of 'revolving door' cost scenario. Of course it does- in the US medicine isn't to make people well, it's to keep them sick and generating income for someone!  I have lots of good doctor friends who try not to be part of that, but it's too much our 'system', and coupled with the for-profit health 'insurance', well it's nothing to do with wellness like in other countries with proper systems of healthcare. 

Nutrition is key to health, and almost all the nutrition in the United States is going to be bad some way, salt, sugar, endless additives. If you want to be well in America rarely eat out and then never most places, I try to eat foods which are simple ingredients. 

But I'm not going to try to convince anyone else either, people change or not, accept reality or not, it's up to them.

Do what works for you!

 

 

 

 

[alterest]

10 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I suppose I feel guilty because he has been making a lot of effort to spend time with me (...)

Both of you are incompatible and you know that. He has been making a lot effort to spend time with you, so as you to stay with him.

You know you need something easier than that. Forcing something with him will give you anxiety and sadness, not because he is a bad guy, but because both of you are fully incompatible, there's no intersection of tastes and beliefs.

[OatsAndHall]

One thing stood out for me in your original post; he doesn't respect boundaries when you set them. You've stated that you don't want to talk about a subject yet he pushes it and is basically saying he knows what you need better than you do. A person can be completely pleasant and have good intentions but when a boundary is set, they have to respect that, whether they like it or not. He is taking it a step further by basically saying that the boundary you put forth isn't viable which I would take a huge issue with. I have things in my life that I either don't discuss because I've moved forward or I only talk about with professionals (i.e. my therapist and doctor). I am polite when they come up but I make it clear that I don't want to talk about those issues. I get testy when someone pushes those boundaries, even if they're well meaning.

[spiderowl]

12 hours ago, Ellener said:

If you're incompatible that's the end of it.

I don't go to doctors much either, living in the US with for-profit medicine it's just not a great idea for being well. The doctors will make unrealistic 'fix all' promises with invasive procedures in an environment which is no longer infection-free so holistic care such as advocated in other philosophies/models does work better here in my experience. Yet every little thing people will tell me to go get medical treatment, which when I do almost always results in worse health and some kind of 'revolving door' cost scenario. Of course it does- in the US medicine isn't to make people well, it's to keep them sick and generating income for someone!  I have lots of good doctor friends who try not to be part of that, but it's too much our 'system', and coupled with the for-profit health 'insurance', well it's nothing to do with wellness like in other countries with proper systems of healthcare. 

Nutrition is key to health, and almost all the nutrition in the United States is going to be bad some way, salt, sugar, endless additives. If you want to be well in America rarely eat out and then never most places, I try to eat foods which are simple ingredients. 

But I'm not going to try to convince anyone else either, people change or not, accept reality or not, it's up to them.

Do what works for you!

 

 

 

 

I fully appreciate what you are saying Ellener. The US health system puts profit first and so it must be difficult to trust health professionals. Prevention is better than cure but I lived a healthy life - veggie, cycled to/from work every day, never smoked, rarely drink, and yet I still got ill and have spent years in pain. 

What you do is wise. Luck and genetics also play a part too.

Edited December 29, 2019 by spiderowl

[spiderowl]

3 hours ago, OatsAndHall said:

One thing stood out for me in your original post; he doesn't respect boundaries when you set them. You've stated that you don't want to talk about a subject yet he pushes it and is basically saying he knows what you need better than you do. A person can be completely pleasant and have good intentions but when a boundary is set, they have to respect that, whether they like it or not. He is taking it a step further by basically saying that the boundary you put forth isn't viable which I would take a huge issue with. I have things in my life that I either don't discuss because I've moved forward or I only talk about with professionals (i.e. my therapist and doctor). I am polite when they come up but I make it clear that I don't want to talk about those issues. I get testy when someone pushes those boundaries, even if they're well meaning.

Thanks HallandOates, I hadn’t thought of it like that but it is true. I did feel he wasn’t taking me seriously at that point. I do care about this guy and I am frustrated that it is not working out but I feel I have no choice if he chooses to ignore what I say.

[Ellener]

3 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I fully appreciate what you are saying Ellener. The US health system puts profit first and so it must be difficult to trust health professionals. Prevention is better than cure but I lived a healthy life - veggie, cycled to/from work every day, never smoked, rarely drink, and yet I still got ill and have spent years in pain. 

What you do is wise. Luck and genetics also play a part too.

I looked at it negatively for a long time, how sick I got after dealing with US doctors/medicine...but I do love the USA in many ways beyond the corporate devaluing- which let's face it isn't really US, it's investments from countries none of us would want to live in?! 

That said original poster if it were me ( and it's not ) I would listen if someone who loves me has advice for me. I don't know why the topic crops up for you both , and people are right, if it's a non-topic, eg you already take care of yourself, then yes he's blurring your boundaries etc. But I have a number of friends with health issues and I do see where it might help them to change their lifestyle where they do seem do be blind to it.

[OatsAndHall]

@spiderowl

 

I completely separated my shoulder a few years back while at work. Workman's comp wouldn't cover surgery to fix it but I'm fine with that as the injury really hasn't limited me. It hurts sometimes but its not serious; rehab and weight training do the trick. I told a woman I was dating about it when her and I hit up a rock climbing gym for a date. I was able to do EVERYTHING on their rock walls but it did tweak my shoulder out a bit; nothing some stretching and a massage wouldn't take care of. Yet, she started bugging me about having surgery on that shoulder even when I told her that a) I was fine not having the shoulder and b) insurance wouldn't cover it.

 

I asked her to drop it but she would bring it up every time my shoulder popped or was a little achy and it was one of the reasons why I stopped seeing her. It is kind of a sore subject for me as I can't compete in the Highland Games anymore because of the shoulder. But, I can't afford to pay for surgery out of my own pocket and, even if I could, there's no guarantee that my shoulder would ever be well enough to compete. And, it's a painful surgery that requires several months worth of immobilization and opioids for the pain as they're drilling through bone; I wasn't going to deal with that. These were all things I told her but she wouldn't respect the boundary I laid out and it set me off.  I rarely ask someone to drop a subject but I mean it when I do. If they can't respect that, then I won't be around them.

[FMW]

I think it's clear there are just too many areas of incompatibility.  Ending it seems like a reasonable choice, you shouldn't feel bad if that's what you do.

Are you mainly holding on because you think you won't meet anyone else (because of the limitations you mentioned)?  

[scooby-philly]

Dating is about learning what is and what is not important to us, what we will negotiate on and what is non-negotiable for us. It sounds like you're struggling to accept that his and your non-negotiable items don't line up. And it sounds like you've let him cross the line on disrespecting you, which you can't get back. So...for those two reasons alone it's time to say goodbye. I would personally do some reflection and use this experience to understand what you're non-negotiable items are so that you can more readily weed out major incompatibility early on.

[spiderowl]

Thank you all. It just seems a shame as he is an optimistic person and does like me. It’s a pity we can’t work things out but I need someone caring and understanding and I don’t feel that.

[spiderowl]

8 hours ago, Finding my way said:

I think it's clear there are just too many areas of incompatibility.  Ending it seems like a reasonable choice, you shouldn't feel bad if that's what you do.

Are you mainly holding on because you think you won't meet anyone else (because of the limitations you mentioned)?  

I’m not really holding on. I suppose I can’t see how it could work but then again I haven’t been in a relationship for a while so I am mindful that I am out of practice as far as compromising. Mainly though I can’t see the wood for the trees!