Girl I have been dating for 3 months is friend with an former « sex-friend »

[d0nnivain]

On 1/6/2020 at 6:06 PM, elpandillero said:

I don’t get why you validate this type of behavior on her side but not on mine ???

I'm not validating her behavior.  She's a flirty girl & was being herself.  

On 1/6/2020 at 6:32 PM, elpandillero said:

It’s more that I disliked how she behaved at the party the other day. I was invited there and didn’t know anyone, so she shouldn’t have been flirty with that guy towards the end. It was disrespectful. That will just give her a taste of how it feels.... then it will be easier for me to make a point

You are deliberating setting out to flirt with other women to intentionally make her jealous.  You are acting a certain way to generate a response.  She was being herself.  They are different behaviors which is why I can tolerate her actions but condemn yours.  

If you didn't know anyone at the party, good manners dictate that she should have introduced you around.  Her failure to do that makes her rude.  However, you said she was flirting with the other guy as you were leaving.  Hadn't you spoken to a soul throughout the night?  When a new SO brings you somewhere, you have some obligation to be outgoing rather then glued to their side.   

Not every man can tolerate dating a flirty woman.  You may be one that needs to date somebody who is more socially reserved.  

[gringoloco]

15 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I'm not validating her behavior.  She's a flirty girl & was being herself.  

You are deliberating setting out to flirt with other women to intentionally make her jealous.  You are acting a certain way to generate a response.  She was being herself.  They are different behaviors which is why I can tolerate her actions but condemn yours.  

If you didn't know anyone at the party, good manners dictate that she should have introduced you around.  Her failure to do that makes her rude.  However, you said she was flirting with the other guy as you were leaving.  Hadn't you spoken to a soul throughout the night?  When a new SO brings you somewhere, you have some obligation to be outgoing rather then glued to their side.   

Not every man can tolerate dating a flirty woman.  You may be one that needs to date somebody who is more socially reserved.  

My previous messages were inaccurate. I m not going to flirt. All I want is to  make her a little bit jealous so that she knows she has to make efforts to keep me. I wont’t do anything disrespectful.

At the party the other day she really knew only one person, the friend of hers whose birthday it was. So i talked to her friend quite a bit (later she told me her friend apparently found me amazing...), but the rest of the people knew each other and I didn’t know any of them plus they were rather young so it was a bit tough. She herself was  sticking with me pretty much all night long, she flirted towards the end only because the guy was provoking her a bit. I just didn’t know how to react I wasn’t going to make a scene but I would have appreciated if she didn’t play his game. It hurt me a bit

That same night  we’ve had that «  relationship status » talk and she says she considers me as her man. We spent an evening yesterday together and it was really great. I just love her personality her kindness, the talks we have and the way she looks at me. I don’t know if it will last but we have great chemistry. The bit of wildness she has is also part of what attracts me. I had an extremly beautiful ex, but she lacked that bit of danger and attraction that this one has.

I just wish i can trust her. She seems genuine, she introduced me to all her friends, to her mom, etc.... but how could I know for sure

If she comes to the party on saturday, at least she’ll see I have a lot of friends - it includes beautiful women but let’s make it clear I won’t flirt with them - and I’ll see how she interacts with them and what they think about her.

 

 

[d0nnivain]

I have no problem with you taking her to the party & introducing her to your friends.  If she gets the visual message that you have choices, good for you.  Just don't set out to provoke her. 

Not all flirting is equal IMO. My husband jokes that I could no more stop flirting then I could stop breathing.  However, a smile or a laugh, even an arm touch, a wink or a dance does not mean I'm jumping into bed with that guy.  

Keep your eyes & ears open.  Trust but verify.  

[gringoloco]

38 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I have no problem with you taking her to the party & introducing her to your friends.  If she gets the visual message that you have choices, good for you.  Just don't set out to provoke her. 

Not all flirting is equal IMO. My husband jokes that I could no more stop flirting then I could stop breathing.  However, a smile or a laugh, even an arm touch, a wink or a dance does not mean I'm jumping into bed with that guy.  

Keep your eyes & ears open.  Trust but verify.  

How do i verify though? does that mean i have to look into her phone like I did? I won’t be able to live with the anxiety of having to do that. It’s too unhealthy and would take me too much energy. The only choice I have is to trust her or stop seeing here.

Edited January 8, 2020 by elpandillero

[d0nnivain]

Exactly.  You either trust her or you don't.  There is no verifying in the hard evidential sense.  What I mean is that you should trust her but still look at her behavior.  If you don't like what you see, you can try another conversation but if that doesn't work your own choice is to end this.  If you don't have trust you don't have a meaningful relationship.   

You can also try having conversations about what flirting is tolerable, if any, and what behaviors you each expect from a partner.  You can't demand she act in a certain way but you should express yourself.  

[gringoloco]

10 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Exactly.  You either trust her or you don't.  There is no verifying in the hard evidential sense.  What I mean is that you should trust her but still look at her behavior.  If you don't like what you see, you can try another conversation but if that doesn't work your own choice is to end this.  If you don't have trust you don't have a meaningful relationship.   

You can also try having conversations about what flirting is tolerable, if any, and what behaviors you each expect from a partner.  You can't demand she act in a certain way but you should express yourself.  

I feel like we need to sit down and talk about her past. We already did a bit. But I think she needs to know that it is something I’ m uncomfortable with. She has no issue talking about how promiscious she was when I ask, as if she was proud of the number of partners she has had, and It just makes me feel super weird.

She told me it was due to a lack of self-confidence. Ok but how do I know it’s not going to happen again?

I see positive qualities in her, which is the only reason I’m still around, otherwise I’d be  in just for the sex

Maybe we should have a talk tonight, but I don’t know how she will react to that. I don’t want her to feel judged.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, elpandillero said:

I feel like we need to sit down and talk about her past.

And what good will that do?
No matter what she says, you will never be relieved.
You already know her number is high, what is there really to discuss?
The past is the past.
Maybe you need to see her and other women as human beings and not make it all about sex and power plays and your ego...

[gringoloco]

10 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

And what good will that do?
No matter what she says, you will never be relieved.
You already know her number is high, what is there really to discuss?
The past is the past.
Maybe you need to see her and other women as human beings and not make it all about sex and power plays and your ego...

First it would be me being honest because I m actually debating wether to continue with her or not due to that.

Second maybe if she understands I see this as a negative thing she’ll stop mentioning it. She’ll understand my boundaries and that if she wants to keep me that’s how it goes. 

I don’t intend to show off but I get a lot of attention from women. For multiple reasons. Why would I settle for someone who has been such an easy target for guys in the past? I m at a stage of my life where I want to be exclusive and build something instead of messing around. That’s what I m asking myself....

[JTSW]

15 hours ago, elpandillero said:

All I want is to  make her a little bit jealous so that she knows she has to make efforts to keep me. I wont’t do anything disrespectful.

I just wish i can trust her. She seems genuine, she introduced me to all her friends, to her mom, etc.... but how could I know for sure

If she comes to the party on saturday, at least she’ll see I have a lot of friends - it includes beautiful women but let’s make it clear I won’t flirt with them - and I’ll see how she interacts with them and what they think about her.

Honestly, trying to make a girl jealous is not going to make her want to work hard to keep you.

It's the opposite in fact. You'll drive her away.

Once a woman see's you are open to hurting her then she'll back off.

The trust will fade.

You need to get a grip and be thankful for what you do have rather than worrying about what could happen.

She hasn't given you any indication that she will cheat.

The past is in the past. You are in her future, but if you constantly prod her about her past you will end up chasing her away.

This is all just about a power trip for you.

[d0nnivain]

4 hours ago, elpandillero said:

I feel like we need to sit down and talk about her past.

Ok but how do I know it’s not going to happen again?

I don’t want her to feel judged.

You don't want to talk about her past.  You want to judge her.  

What you really need to do is say to her that you appreciate her candor but hearing more about her past is upsetting to you & you'd prefer to close the subject & focus on the future the two of you have together which is based on integrity. 

 

2 hours ago, elpandillero said:

Why would I settle for someone who has been such an easy target for guys in the past? 

She wasn't "an easy target."  She wasn't taken advantage of her.  She made bad choices based on low self esteem.  Lots of young girls do that.  Now as she's maturing, hopefully she values herself more & is making better choices.  She chose you, didn't she? 

Still she needs to grow up & stop talking to you about the details of her past.  Oversharing causes problems just like hiding things does.  

Again focus your discussion on the present & your joint future.  You can't change the # of guys in her past but as long as you are the last guy does what she did at 16 - 18 really matter? 

 

This is a situation that calls for tactful diplomacy.  If you try to S**t-shame her which is how this comes across she would be right to dump you in a heart beat.  Tread lightly & delicately.  

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, elpandillero said:

I m at a stage of my life where I want to be exclusive and build something instead of messing around. That’s what I m asking myself....

So why are you messing around with a 22yo?
She has a lot of living to do yet before settling down.
You are just a "filler" to her.
So many late twenties/thirties guys get hung up on very young women, they want to lock them down and marry them. She agrees as playing house sounds like fun..  they move in together, all well and good until a few years later when she gets bored, she doesn't really want to get married, she feels she missed out and she leaves.
She moves swiftly on, he is heartbroken as his dreams of having a young hot wife are shattered..
If you are looking for a serious gf/wife then you need to find women who are truly ready to have a husband.

[gringoloco]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So why are you messing around with a 22yo?
She has a lot of living to do yet before settling down.
You are just a "filler" to her.
So many late twenties/thirties guys get hung up on very young women, they want to lock them down and marry them. She agrees as playing house sounds like fun..  they move in together, all well and good until a few years later when she gets bored, she doesn't really want to get married, she feels she missed out and she leaves.
She moves swiftly on, he is heartbroken as his dreams of having a young hot wife are shattered..
If you are looking for a serious gf/wife then you need to find women who are truly ready to have a husband.

I think that’s a bit simplistic. She talks about marriage 10x more than I do. She s pretty much suggesting she wants to move in with me, go on holidays with me, etc... So far it’s me who has been on the defensive and taking things slow. 

Could she lie about it all? maybe. 

She’s quite religious (jewish) and has always wanted to have kids and marry.

I m less religious than she is and to me it’s less important to get married, or even have kids anytime soon, but I know for sure I need someone who will be faithful and bring something to the table.

[JTSW]

Just now, elpandillero said:

She talks about marriage 10x more than I do. She s pretty much suggesting she wants to move in with me, go on holidays with me, etc... So far it’s me who has been on the defensive and taking things slow. 

I m less religious than she is and to me it’s less important to get married, or even have kids anytime soon, but I know for sure I need someone who will be faithful and bring something to the table.

It sounds like you are the problem, not her.

She's very keen to spend her life with you.

But because you have lost an element of control in the relationship you are now finding fault with everything she does.

She hasn't given you any reason at all to think she would be unfaithful. 

You are just projecting your insecurity about her being friends she once had an intimate past with.

[elaine567]

17 minutes ago, elpandillero said:

I think that’s a bit simplistic. She talks about marriage 10x more than I do. She s pretty much suggesting she wants to move in with me, go on holidays with me, etc..

And that is what usually happens... she is desperate to play house, only a few years down the line she doesn't want to play house and have a bundle of kids any longer...
It is not that she is lying it is just that a few years down the line she often changes her mind.
 

[d0nnivain]

20 minutes ago, elpandillero said:

She talks about marriage 10x more than I do. She s pretty much suggesting she wants to move in with me, go on holidays with me, etc... So far it’s me who has been on the defensive and taking things slow. 

She's in love with the romance of it all, not necessarily in love with you.  You have know each other for 90 days!  Unless you are on the insipid TV show, you have no business talking about marriage or kids.  Maybe it's OK to talk about a summer holiday / long weekend together in the future but everything else is too much too soon & a huge red flag that she has no idea what commitment means.  If you are entertaining these discussion you are also moving too fast.  You two need to be fully together in a trusting committed relationship that is working for you both for at least 2 years before you start talking about cohabitating.  

[gringoloco]

13 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

She's in love with the romance of it all, not necessarily in love with you.  You have know each other for 90 days!  Unless you are on the insipid TV show, you have no business talking about marriage or kids.  Maybe it's OK to talk about a summer holiday / long weekend together in the future but everything else is too much too soon & a huge red flag that she has no idea what commitment means.  If you are entertaining these discussion you are also moving too fast.  You two need to be fully together in a trusting committed relationship that is working for you both for at least 2 years before you start talking about cohabitating.  

And yet she has had longer relationships than i did!!!

One that lasted 4 years, the other one 3 years

Best i did was 2,5 years. and it ended in flames

It’s all very confusing at the moment to be honest. I m a bit lost here. I ve met so many women that were mentally unstable that she seems alright and stronger i comparison despite her past ....

 

[fromheart]

On 1/2/2020 at 11:13 PM, elpandillero said:

If I listen to my instincts it’s sending me major warnings. I don’t want to have to worry that if I leave my girl alone at a party and she gets drunk, she’s going to hook up with the first guy around. That’s so unattractive.

She seems like someone with good moral values, generous, and with ambition - which at 22 is pretty rare - but she naively told me a lot about her past and who she hooked up with etc... and honestly even though she say it’s in her past, I m a guy, and I know that when you ve had sex with someone and you re still friends with that person there s a 90% chance that it will happen again.

 

Look, I'm going to say something completely non PC, bound to cause offense and completely true.  Women who've already slept with a load of guys by 22, usually aren't long term relationship material.

Its one of the biggest flaws of modern western society, to encourage young women to sleep around.  In the last five decades, women have been misinformed that they can sleep around in their fertile years and by 30-35 Prince Charming will enter her life, wash the dishes with his six pack hanging out, making her pregnant and doing what he's told. 

It's not working out, there are more and more angry, unhappy middle aged women while the men are either dating women from other cultures, or giving up.  Or if they're married to an angry, unhappy woman killing themselves.  

If I meet a woman who has had a history of lots of casual sex, my instinct flares up also.  Most men's instinct flare up.  But many men have been mis conditioned to regard their own manly instinct as sexist.  This is nonsense.

Follow your instinct here.  I can't tell you what to do, but I know I'd be out of there.  Best you get tested also, even if you've been using protection. 

[CallienteMami]

On 1/2/2020 at 3:22 PM, smackie9 said:

You looked through her phone! that makes you what again? jealous? Too late.... yes you are and paranoid to boot. Sorry buddy but you ain't ready to date someone like her. Back off for your own sake before you do something stupid. How would you like it if she was digging through your phone to find out stuff about your past or whatever.....you would be p^%$ off

This^^

[gringoloco]

20 hours ago, fromheart said:

Look, I'm going to say something completely non PC, bound to cause offense and completely true.  Women who've already slept with a load of guys by 22, usually aren't long term relationship material.

Its one of the biggest flaws of modern western society, to encourage young women to sleep around.  In the last five decades, women have been misinformed that they can sleep around in their fertile years and by 30-35 Prince Charming will enter her life, wash the dishes with his six pack hanging out, making her pregnant and doing what he's told. 

It's not working out, there are more and more angry, unhappy middle aged women while the men are either dating women from other cultures, or giving up.  Or if they're married to an angry, unhappy woman killing themselves.  

If I meet a woman who has had a history of lots of casual sex, my instinct flares up also.  Most men's instinct flare up.  But many men have been mis conditioned to regard their own manly instinct as sexist.  This is nonsense.

Follow your instinct here.  I can't tell you what to do, but I know I'd be out of there.  Best you get tested also, even if you've been using protection. 

it’s a bit more complex than that, I m really falling a bit in love here. Despite all that. I just love being with her, it’s always enjoyable, and not just the physical part. I love her personality.

Now this issue of being very friendly with men is something that’s puzzling me. She always tells me how much she’s happy with me, and she enjoys the time we have together, but nothing seems to calm my nerves. 

I was used to being with someone who was the total opposite, meaning very jealous of all my girl friends, who wouldn’t let me have a night out with my friends without making a scene, etc...This ruined our relationship. This girl is not like that. I think she doesn’t mean bad by flirting the way she does, she is just trying to be likeable and she’s probably not planning on cheating, but it irritates me.

I don’t know how to bring it up to her, after all we’ve only seen each other for 3 months, but I would like her to adjust a bit

Edited January 12, 2020 by elpandillero

[JTSW]

10 hours ago, elpandillero said:

I think she doesn’t mean bad by flirting the way she does, she is just trying to be likeable and she’s probably not planning on cheating, but it irritates me.

I don’t know how to bring it up to her, after all we’ve only seen each other for 3 months, but I would like her to adjust a bit

Everyone flirts sometimes.

It's harmless. Doesn't mean anything.

If you start kicking up a stink about it you are going to push her away.

[gringoloco]

51 minutes ago, JTSW said:

Everyone flirts sometimes.

It's harmless. Doesn't mean anything.

If you start kicking up a stink about it you are going to push her away.

I know but i can tell it affects my daily life negatively as i end up stressing about it.

It’s either I find a way to chill out, either we have a talk, either i need to get out before the relationship gets toxic like it was with my ex...

[JTSW]

35 minutes ago, elpandillero said:

I know but i can tell it affects my daily life negatively as i end up stressing about it.

It’s either I find a way to chill out, either we have a talk, either i need to get out before the relationship gets toxic like it was with my ex...

This is all just in your head.

Nothing has happened.

Just because it went toxic with your ex doesn't mean it's going to happen with this one.

 You need to find a away of overcoming your insecurities and learn to trust.

 

[fromheart]

13 hours ago, elpandillero said:

it’s a bit more complex than that, I m really falling a bit in love here. Despite all that. I just love being with her, it’s always enjoyable, and not just the physical part. I love her personality.

Now this issue of being very friendly with men is something that’s puzzling me. She always tells me how much she’s happy with me, and she enjoys the time we have together, but nothing seems to calm my nerves. 

I was used to being with someone who was the total opposite, meaning very jealous of all my girl friends, who wouldn’t let me have a night out with my friends without making a scene, etc...This ruined our relationship. This girl is not like that. I think she doesn’t mean bad by flirting the way she does, she is just trying to be likeable and she’s probably not planning on cheating, but it irritates me.

I don’t know how to bring it up to her, after all we’ve only seen each other for 3 months, but I would like her to adjust a bit

That's probably not going to happen.  She has been sexually liberal and like many she isn't aware of the consequences.  One day you'll meet women in their 30's who spent their fertile years sleeping around.  They have a very short time to start a family, and not the slightest idea where to begin.  They can't act appropriately with other men, because they have trained their bodies and minds to react in a certain way.  You'll probably find they're  unable to connect with themselves and others emotionally, when it comes to sex.  That's because sexuality and emotions were separated in their early adulthood, and its hard to just flick the switch the other way.  Especially as one gets older.

The women who have planned and invested their time into starting long term relationships and families, are snapped up before they turn 30.

Sexually liberal women do not make the best long term partners.   You're young, its best for you to keep going with this and see where it leads.    

[gringoloco]

I know it’s unhealthy but I feel like i need to know if something happened with that guy on new year s eve. I ve had multiple occasions to look at her phone over the last few days but i resisted the urge.... 

If something did happen, then i woud have no regret walking away. It’s the unknown that makes me feel uncomfortable. Maybe next time i need to take a deep breath and have a look into her phone again....

[JTSW]

Just now, elpandillero said:

Maybe next time i need to take a deep breath and have a look into her phone again....

No, don't go snooping in her phone again.

That's just seriously disrespectful.

If you want to know the truth just ask her already.