New here. but not new as an Other Woman - partner separating

[Veronica73]

Sorry, but the ultimate responsibility lies with the person who made vows to love you and to be faithful. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Veronica73

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Sure. But most women only want to have sex with a man they’re sexually attracted to, at a minimum. There’s a reason incels are single. 

Yes, but I don't think anyone is suggesting women move from MM to incels...
However I do get it.
Married men are a pool of mostly pretty desirable guys, "society's finest". 
They have usually had the rough edges smoothed off and to some women, women who may have "missed the boat" in past lives, they are fair game.
"Why does the insipid, dowdy, boring, crazy, stupid... wife deserve him, when he can have me?"
 

[EEK]

7 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

OP I am sorry for everything you've been through but sorry, the excuse "I only chose married men because single ones wanted a relationship" is ridiculous in my eyes. So are you suggesting that all single women who want sex without a relationship should wreck houses? Can't they just SAY to the single man they are dating that this relationship won't become more serious? 

Also what you are saying is contradictory because you said "I choose married men cause they don't want a relationship" though you are about to have a relationship and marriage with your married man...

At that time in my life, 14 years ago, everything was chaotic. Married men were easy. I had several regular married men. Single men saw me as broken and something they could fix. Single men wanted to "date".  There was no "Tinder" back then.  Every single time I had sex with a single guy it got messy. Feelings were hurt. My life was already in chaos. And I just couldn't handle it.  You can call me a home wrecker if it makes you feel better, that's fine. But as I've stated I'm no longer that same woman. For the last 9 years I have slept with 2 men, my then boyfriend of 7 years and my now MM. - I've come a long way.  

Current me DOES want a relationship with my MM. I've been waiting for 1.5 years for him to be ready. I know I deserve better than what he's been able to give me. I'm not in this for the thrill or excitement. I'm here because I genuinely love this man. Faults and all. He's not perfect. Neither am I. 

I want to support him. I want to allow him time to grieve the ending of a 25 year relationship. But he doesn't know which way is up or down right now, and because of that neither do I.

I was just looking for support/advice on how to survive this with him while remaining together. 

 

 

[EEK]

4 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

When a crime is not discovered it doesn't mean it's still not a crime. Same with extramarital sex.

The OW has a big role as well as the BM for having sex with a married man. Do you want to say it's 50-50? It's still a big responsibility. This woman said she wanted to have sex only with married men, so in my eyes her responsibility is even bigger than a woman who gets with a man who maybe lied about being married and she found out later.

I justified my actions at the time by telling myself if it wasn't me they were sleeping with it would be someone else - so why not me. To me, married men were a win-win... But I will tell you this much... Never will I ever blame an OW for the infidelity of my partner. 

[EEK]

3 hours ago, Veronica73 said:

Sorry, but the ultimate responsibility lies with the person who made vows to love you and to be faithful. 

That's how I see it too. Unless the OW is my best friend. 

[SummerDreams]

I'm not trying to shame anyone or make them feel bad, but when you make the decision to be the third person in the relationship you do have a responsibility for ruining this marriage. Don't you feel it's 50-50? You want 30-70? 20-80? It still is YOU and not someone else. It still is YOUR decision and not someone else's. It is about not doing to someone something you don't want others to do to you. It's that simple to me.

Feelings won't be hurt if people are honest about their intentions to people they sleep with.

[EEK]

11 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

I'm not trying to shame anyone or make them feel bad, but when you make the decision to be the third person in the relationship you do have a responsibility for ruining this marriage. Don't you feel it's 50-50? You want 30-70? 20-80? It still is YOU and not someone else. It still is YOUR decision and not someone else's. It is about not doing to someone something you don't want others to do to you. It's that simple to me.

Feelings won't be hurt if people are honest about their intentions to people they sleep with.

I feel like you are implying that I wasn't honest with the single men I slept with. I was honest. I was BRUTALLY honest. I didn't have the energy to lie. I was honest with the married men I slept with too. And I never slept with someone who hadn't already stepped out on their wife before me.  

 

[SummerDreams]

6 minutes ago, EEK said:

I feel like you are implying that I wasn't honest with the single men I slept with. I was honest. I was BRUTALLY honest. I didn't have the energy to lie. I was honest with the married men I slept with too. And I never slept with someone who hadn't already stepped out on their wife before me.  

 

If you were honest in saying you didn't want a relationship, then it was their fault for getting hurt.

As for the "I never slept with someone who hadn't already stepped out on their wife before me", please... All marriages go through crisis, it doesn't mean that a stranger should be there to give it the last kick and kill it. Nor is this a justification. Maybe it makes you sleep better at night, but it doesn't make you less responsible.

Anyway, good luck with your man and lets hope he will be in the minority of having a cheating (repeating) past but he'll remain faithful to you.

[EEK]

4 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

If you were honest in saying you didn't want a relationship, then it was their fault for getting hurt.

As for the "I never slept with someone who hadn't already stepped out on their wife before me", please... All marriages go through crisis, it doesn't mean that a stranger should be there to give it the last kick and kill it. Nor is this a justification. Maybe it makes you sleep better at night, but it doesn't make you less responsible.

Anyway, good luck with your man and lets hope he will be in the minority of having a cheating (repeating) past but he'll remain faithful to you.

thanks. i appreciate the well wishes. 

[Amethyst68]

18 hours ago, EEK said:

Yes he was. I was a wreck. It was very traumatic. I met MM about 9 months after it happened. He watched my very messy grieving and never not once judged me. And became my best friend. He was a rotten husband to his wife. I told him that many times, but he's is a phenomenal father, lover and best friend. Edited to add, I shouldn't say rotten but he definitely could have been better. And I told him that, just a few hours ago actually.

First - the word rotten is a very mild way of describing this man's actions and treatment of his wife. This man has cheated, lied to and actively deceived her for overt a decade. While I'm glad your healed this man took  his energy and time away from his wife and children to do so.

This leads to my second point, he is in no way a phenomenal father. No cheater can ever claim this because the focus of their energy and time is focused elsewhere not on their children. Even if they are physically present they are fixed on when they'll receive their next text, call, whatever type  of contact from their AP.  Their children miss out and usually once the affair is over the MP  realises just how dissociated  they are with their family.  This man's been cheating for so long I doubt he knows what an involved and fulfilling relationship with his kids actually looks like.

BTW is he throwing his wife under the bus for her newly discovered affair or is he admitting his own behaviour too?

 

 

[PhoenixRising8]

First of all EEK, I am so sorry for the loss of your husband.  The circumstances were horrific and the fallout for you just as bad. I am very happy that you have found the light at the end of the tunnel. 

In response to SummerDream, marriages do go through crisis, that much is true. But a crisis that lasts years, is not a crisis, it's a broken marriage. My xMM and I had both gone through at least 5 years of so called crisis before we engaged in an affair, which started almost 2 years ago.  For me, it turned out to be an exit affair and for that I have no regret. Could I have exited in a better way?  Yes, of course. No excuses. Even people who are honest and have integrity can do terrible things when they are desperate and that I was. I was literally below zero.  xMM was my rock and got me through it. Then he devastated me but I got through it. I realized if I could survive Satan (xH), I could survive xMM and I'm better, happier and more whole than I've ever been but it took work. Lots of it. Lots of IC, lots of introspection, analysis and tears. Not to thread jack but here's a perfect example of how some people come out the other side while others perpetuate their unhappiness  

xMM hasn't fared quite so well. He has yet to accept his marriage is broken. How do I know this?  2 reasons. I outed him to BW and he continued to talk to me, and tell me he loved me.

In September, I found out he was looking for a new affair while cleaning out my emails which were full of notifications from a dating website. There he was. Long story but suffice it to say, I accidentally contacted him (yes it can easily be done vis "keys" on a touch screen) and we engaged in a week long back and forth (he didn't know it was me). He had nothing but praise for me but the only good thing he could say about BW was that she is a good person. I felt horrible for her and the part I played in his deception of her. After thinking about it for weeks, I decided to send her his profile and emails so that she knew what he was up to and they could finally deal with the reality of their marriage because I had a feeling he'd be knocking on my door otherwise. And no sooner did I send the package, he texted saying he regrets how we ended, he missed me blah, blah, blah. I didn't respond for almost a full day. I thanked him for his apology and it led to a call from him. Turns out he was on the west coast on VACATION with BW and miserable so while she was cooling her jets in the hotel room he was outside pouring his heart out to me, hoping that when he finally leaves I would consider giving him another chance. I thought long about what to do as I knew he wasn't leaving and about the grenade I had thrown his way. So the day after he returned we met for coffee (Canadian Thanksgiving day no less) and I told him the truth about what I had done and said he should go home, confess to BW, beg for forgiveness and start IC to determine how the marriage can be saved, if it can. He was obviously blindsided but continued telling me loves me and engaging until just a couple of weeks ago when I finally said he has to deal with his marriage on its own merits, without me as a distraction, even though it was as friends where I listened to his gripes, mostly via text although we did meet for coffee a couple of times  all platonic  

All that to say, his marriage is not just in crisis, it's broken but he can't face his failure, doesn't have the backbone to deal with the emotional manipulation we all engage in when we want to hold on (you did this, that and the other, pointing fingers etc.). To this day, almost 3 months later, neither he nor BW have even brought up the package I sent, much less discussed it. I feel very sorry for them, to be so disfunctional that they can not deal with the issues in their marriage but would rather continue status quo than face their issues and resolve them.  And this year, there were no happy family posts and he, not a Facebooker by habit, after years of a the same couple profile pic changed it to one of him and a couple of riding buddies, on Boxing Day!

It sounds to me like EEK's MM's marriage wasn't in crisis, but broken for a long time.  Like my xMM, he didn't have the wherewithal to deal with it one way or the other but waited until it just erupted. It's a sad way to live a life.

EEK, whether you realize it or not, you did help him to keep his marriage going longer because you provided that emotional bandaid that allowed him to have respite from what he wasn't dealing with.  I told my xMM I wasn't going to play that role again. I know you want to support him, but supporting him may lead him back into the marriage because it's less costly, safe and known.  Many an MM has gone back while separated.  Your best bet might be to give him a month to just figure it out on his own.  Touch base in a month and decide where to go from there. Despite being unhappy in the marriage, it is still his marriage and his failure and he needs to deal with that, without you as a distraction, in my opinion.

 

 

[stillafool]

6 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Sure. But most women only want to have sex with a man they’re sexually attracted to, at a minimum. There’s a reason incels are single. 

So you're saying the only men that are sexy are the married ones?  When I was single sexy men were everywhere.

[PhoenixRising8]

I guess it depends how old you are lol. Single men in their 50's and 60's ain't so hot and the ones that are generally aren't looking for age appropriate lol. That's been my experience last 8 months of true singledom. 

[EEK]

I really appreciate all the advice that's been given thus far. There's no way I can explain the full 13 years of history for himself, his marriage, or myself in a way that you all will understand. I don't expect everyone to understand. I know he wasn't a good husband to her. She wasn't a good wife to him. It wasn't a good marriage. 

We've made some less than stellar choices in our lives, it's true.

He's not a bad person.

His wife is not a bad person.

And I'm not a bad person.  

 

[EEK]

3 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

First - the word rotten is a very mild way of describing this man's actions and treatment of his wife. This man has cheated, lied to and actively deceived her for overt a decade. While I'm glad your healed this man took  his energy and time away from his wife and children to do so.

This leads to my second point, he is in no way a phenomenal father. No cheater can ever claim this because the focus of their energy and time is focused elsewhere not on their children. Even if they are physically present they are fixed on when they'll receive their next text, call, whatever type  of contact from their AP.  Their children miss out and usually once the affair is over the MP  realises just how dissociated  they are with their family.  This man's been cheating for so long I doubt he knows what an involved and fulfilling relationship with his kids actually looks like.

BTW is he throwing his wife under the bus for her newly discovered affair or is he admitting his own behaviour too?

 

 

I don't expect a complete stranger to understand something about a person they've never actually met. But his daughter and him have a relationship like none I've seen. Being a dad has been his whole purpose for living for a very long time. He poured his heart and soul into raising his daughter. She is his first priority.  They are extremely close. 

Soooo, looks like your theory is wrong. Sorry about that. 

 

[Allupinnit]

It's always amazing to me how people can lie to themselves at such a core level.  We really are the best ones at selling ourselves on terrible ideas, given enough time justifying our selfish actions.

When you sleep with a married man you are taking something directly away from another woman that doesn't belong to you.  Intimacy that doesn't belong to you.  Moments that don't belong to you.  Attention and affection that doesn't belong to YOU.  

Just imagine - if we put that sort of effort into our own marriages.  Racing to the back of the line for each other.  Doing that dirty work in therapy.  Injecting kindness instead of deception. Happy marriages take WORK and left unchecked it's no wonder you see people getting bored and stepping out - making things even worse than before and breaking up families that might have otherwise stood a chance.  

It's frankly appalling to read how some posters feel like the authority on their MM's "broken" marriages.  There is a reason these situations are miserable for all involved.  

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Allupinnit

[Starswillshine]

2 hours ago, EEK said:

I don't expect a complete stranger to understand something about a person they've never actually met. But his daughter and him have a relationship like none I've seen. Being a dad has been his whole purpose for living for a very long time. He poured his heart and soul into raising his daughter. She is his first priority.  They are extremely close. 

Soooo, looks like your theory is wrong. Sorry about that. 

 

I'm sorry but a man who puts his daughter's peace at jeopardy for over a decade is NOT making her his priority. In fact, it seems his lower head is taking priority. 

[elaine567]

I think no matter what has gone on for the last 25 years actually splitting up for good is going to be hugely traumatic for him.
Fine to daydream about a new life but was his old one really that miserable?
I guess not. They have stuck in there man and wife for 25 years...
Yes there is his child that he has used as an excuse,  to keep you hanging on, but if you follow so many of these stories, there is always "something" that stops these kind of guys walking out for good

My concern for you is that his ego is hurt, his wife has been cheating and fiddling the books, but how much of that will he ultimately see as his fault for treating her so bad...
If he gets around to seeing it like that, then if she is amenable, a reconciliation may be on the cards...
Your two years of plans may then count for nothing...
Wait and see is all you can do really ...

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Allupinnit said:

It's frankly appalling to read how some posters feel like the authority on their MM's "broken" marriages.  There is a reason these situations are miserable for all involved. 

 

While that may be true, bad marriages are common enough to be cliche and certainly not all of them involve cheating. The MM may indeed have been unhappy for years prior to an affair for reasons that have little to do with the AP and a lot to deal with how they and their BW interact. They may have tried, failed, and be going through the motions for whatever reasons seem to make sense (e.g. "for the kids"). Not an uncommon situation and not one the OW herself often created.

Don't get me wrong, you have a good point and the ethical thing to do is certainly to either fix the marriage or end it before moving on. But people often stick around, even if very unhappy, until a chance for at least some happiness appears in the form of OW. Sometime "I'm miserable/she's horrible" isn't actually a lie.

[EEK]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I think no matter what has gone on for the last 25 years actually splitting up for good is going to be hugely traumatic for him.
Fine to daydream about a new life but was his old one really that miserable?
I guess not. They have stuck in there man and wife for 25 years...
Yes there is his child that he has used as an excuse,  to keep you hanging on, but if you follow so many of these stories, there is always "something" that stops these kind of guys walking out for good

My concern for you is that his ego is hurt, his wife has been cheating and fiddling the books, but how much of that will he ultimately see as his fault for treating her so bad...
If he gets around to seeing it like that, then if she is amenable, a reconciliation may be on the cards...
Your two years of plans may then count for nothing...
Wait and see is all you can do really ...

I had a brief conversation with him today. He actually sees all of it as his fault.  He's taking this a lot harder than I thought he would. He said he doesn't deserve someone as supportive as me but he's sure thankful I'm here. And I remembered feeling that same way years and years ago... Like I didn't deserve the support he was giving me but dang if it wasn't the only thing keeping me going at times. 

 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

5 hours ago, EEK said:

I don't expect a complete stranger to understand something about a person they've never actually met. But his daughter and him have a relationship like none I've seen. Being a dad has been his whole purpose for living for a very long time. He poured his heart and soul into raising his daughter. She is his first priority.  They are extremely close. 

Soooo, looks like your theory is wrong. Sorry about that. 

 

While I 100% think affairs are awful and all willing adult parties are at fault for being less-than-honorable humans, I do have to agree with the parenting part you've asserted here. I think cheating humans are capable of separating that part of themselves from their parenting selves.  I've seen it happen.  One of my BFFs was a wayward wife and she has raised amazing daughters who love and respect her despite what happened to the marriage because of her misdeeds.  She has a great relationship with them.  I'd say  part of that is because she is contrite and remorseful about what happened and their father is still bitter about the betrayal and is not the man he used to be....so the girls are closer to her, the cheater, than the dad, the betrayed (and remarried) spouse.  

[EEK]

1 hour ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

While I 100% think affairs are awful and all willing adult parties are at fault for being less-than-honorable humans, I do have to agree with the parenting part you've asserted here. I think cheating humans are capable of separating that part of themselves from their parenting selves.  I've seen it happen.  One of my BFFs was a wayward wife and she has raised amazing daughters who love and respect her despite what happened to the marriage because of her misdeeds.  She has a great relationship with them.  I'd say  part of that is because she is contrite and remorseful about what happened and their father is still bitter about the betrayal and is not the man he used to be....so the girls are closer to her, the cheater, than the dad, the betrayed (and remarried) spouse.  

The same is true here. The daughter actually was the one that discovered one of his previous affairs. She knows what her dad has done but is closer to him than her mother. In fact she doesn't get along with the mother. She's more worried about her dad and him being sad right now than she is her mom being gone. 

[Prudence V]

11 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

When you sleep with a married man you are taking something directly away from another woman that doesn't belong to you.  Intimacy that doesn't belong to you.  Moments that don't belong to you.  Attention and affection that doesn't belong to YOU.  

Ah, this old chestnut again... 🤣 

In fact, these are things you cannot steal. You cannot force someone to give you intimacy or affection, nor the right kind of attention, as neglected children learn all too quickly. You can only accept it if offered - and if someone is offering it to you rather than their spouse,  there’s a reason for that: they *want* to, and are choosing to invest in their R with you rather than their M because that is what they prefer right now. You can tell them to love or want someone else instead, but we all know things don’t work like that. Love, intimacy, affection etc are not a tap that can be switched on or off (for normal people). 

[Prudence V]

11 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

It's frankly appalling to read how some posters feel like the authority on their MM's "broken" marriages

In the context f these forums, they are. No one here knows the people involved other than the person posting. Some people may feel they know, because of their own experiences / prejudices, but in reality, unless they’re involved in that particular situation themselves, and know the MM under discussion and his particular context, it’s all assumption. 
 

The OP may not be in the M, but she is in the R with her MM, and is his confidante. She may only be hearing one side of the story, but she’s hearing it from the horse’s mouth (so to speak) and has her own observations to augment what she’s hearing. Which is a lot more data than anyone on these boards has wrt that particular marriage. 

[stillafool]

19 hours ago, EEK said:

I want to support him. I want to allow him time to grieve the ending of a 25 year relationship. But he doesn't know which way is up or down right now, and because of that neither do I.

I don' t understand why he needs time to grieve, wasn't he expecting to move to divorce and go with you?  Why is this hard for him if he's no longer in love with his wife?   I didn't do any grieving when  I separated and divorced because feelings were no longer there.  I felt relieved.  This doesn't make sense.