What can I learn from this experience?

[thecrucible]

So I'm just a little bit sad after having an honest conversation with a former colleague who I had romantic feelings for. I've been back visiting my hometown from hundreds of miles away and I don't know, I just got carried away and met up with him, flirted a little, went out of a couple of times. It's silly really since we don't live near each other but I suppose the nostalgia of the past got to me. He liked me when we worked together but nothing happened. I didn't want to be inappropriate as he had a gf but he told me that he would have done something if he knew I liked him then and would have dumped that gf. 

We went for a country walk and then he bought me dinner. He did talk a lot about his ex and she just moved out of his place (4 months ago) after leaving him for another guy after dating for over six years. He said he's not sure whether he would ever want to get married as he's getting more set in his ways the older he gets. Although I don't like guys talking tonnes about exes, I let him speak freely without judgement so I could suss him out properly. 

We then went on for a country drive and parked at the beach. To test him a little, I talked a little more suggestively (some but not all of his texts to me had been a bit hinting at something). Then we kissed (which on reflection was maybe a little half-hearted from his end). I didn't want to do anything more in case I got attached (though he wasn't particularly trying) so I just flat out asked him to be honest. He said he didn't want to date or have a relationship or anything at this time as he's still moving his exes stuff out and dealing with division of goods from the house they shared. We spoke more about life etc in the car on the way back and he also told me that he struggles to feel empathy with people and looks at things very logically. I guess this would jar with me as I'm quite an emotional person and feel things very deeply. He said he feels uncomfortable when his parents hug him for instance. We spoke for another two hours in the car so eventually it was 2am when I got home. I was with him for 12 hours total! Not that that means anything.

I'm proud of myself for allowing myself that vulnerability and for owning what I wanted from him. I'm also proud of myself for having the kindness to be a good listener to him and show him that I respect what he says without reacting emotionally (I had a few tears in my eyes but I didn't go full on crying and I told him it was all okay etc). We agreed to keep in touch as friends. 

So yeah what I'm really wanting to know is your general take on the situation without being too brutally honest (I don't wanna cry tonnes more)? Eurrgh and even though I didn't actually want it, it disappoints me in a way that he didn't feel a strong enough physical attraction to try it on more. How messed up is that? I'm obviously feeling pretty down about how I look etc (I was thinner when I knew him before). 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

His rejection is a blessing in disguise. He's not relationship material. Congrats on not sleeping with him anyway and later complaining that you were used, like I so often read on forums.

[thecrucible]

@GeorgiaPeach1 - Thank you. Yes I'm pleased with myself too as it shows a bit of emotional strength to not beg the guy after he rejects you. Part of me wonders whether he was angling just in case as convo went slightly like this after we arrived at the beach after the kiss: 

Me : I'm wondering what you're thinking? 

Him: I don't know.. what are you thinking? *flirty look*

Me: *laughs* Okay I can see how that question sounds now you've asked me it back. I'm thinking that I find you very attractive and I would have sex with you right now but I definitely couldn't as I would probably get too attached. Now seriously, I want you to be honest with me. 

Then he was honest with me..

I think if I'd have mentioned something sexual to him then and there, he probably would have taken the bait. I'm glad I didn't as I wouldn't have felt any better. 

I guess I had a gut instinct on the date as I positioned myself in ways he could go in for a kiss in a romantic way like on our walk and sat close to him but he didn't do anything until we were in the car later and I tested him with the sexual talk. Actually I bet if I'd initiated at any point in the date, he probably would have felt justified not feeling bad about it because he could have then said "well she hit on me" if you know what I mean.

I still feel a bit rejected for some reason though.. It's just hard being emotionally vulnerable with a man.

Edited January 5, 2020 by thecrucible
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[Ruby Slippers]

I've never come on to a man who isn't mine in any way. I don't think much good ever comes of it. I think men are biologically wired to pursue and women are wired to receive, and respecting natural biology makes sense for so many reasons.

Even some of the most highly desired men who have lots of women coming after them have told me that it's always the women who do NOT pursue who intrigue them. They don't want it to be too easy. They're wired to value more what they have to work to get.

 

[thecrucible]

@Ruby Slippers - to clarify, he is actually single and I had told him before that I wouldn’t be interested in him otherwise. Perhaps I put him off by being too obvious about liking him though I don’t know. It’s a hard balance to strike. 

[thecrucible]

I probably should have played the game a bit better but at the same time I’m glad I didn’t give in and have sex with him. 

[Ruby Slippers]

Right, I meant I've never come into a man who is not my boyfriend, whether single or not, meaning I don't pursue men. From what you wrote, it sounds to me as if you were throwing yourself at him, which I think is almost always a losing approach for a woman. That, in my opinion, is the lesson.

[thecrucible]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Right, I meant I've never come into a man who is not my boyfriend, whether single or not, meaning I don't pursue men. From what you wrote, it sounds to me as if you were throwing yourself at him, which I think is almost always a losing approach for a woman. That, in my opinion, is the lesson.

Okay thank you. I don’t think I was throwing myself at him. I never made any physical move on him. The only time I initiated was when I asked him out at a second time and when I let slip that I liked him although he responded at the time to say he liked me too. But I do agree I wouldn’t do that in the future. Perhaps I had bad advice from a friend this time? 
 

Actually I just feel really embarrassed now and that feeling won’t go away yet. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by thecrucible
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[Ruby Slippers]

Me : I'm wondering what you're thinking? 

This means basically: I want to know if you're feeling anything for me.

Him: I don't know.. what are you thinking? *flirty look*

He deflects because he's not feeling much of anything.

Me: *laughs* Okay I can see how that question sounds now you've asked me it back. I'm thinking that I find you very attractive and I would have sex with you right now but I definitely couldn't as I would probably get too attached. Now seriously, I want you to be honest with me. 

I mean, this is figuratively you stripping off your clothes and lying down in front of him.

He didn't take your bait, so you feel rejected and embarrassed.

Even if he did take the bait, he probably wouldn't feel much, as he wouldn't have felt he'd done anything to earn the most precious thing you have to offer. So in the long run, you'd feel rejected and sad, anyway.

This is why offering yourself up to / throwing yourself at a man rarely works out well.

[thecrucible]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Me : I'm wondering what you're thinking? 

This means basically: I want to know if you're feeling anything for me.

Him: I don't know.. what are you thinking? *flirty look*

He deflects because he's not feeling much of anything.

Me: *laughs* Okay I can see how that question sounds now you've asked me it back. I'm thinking that I find you very attractive and I would have sex with you right now but I definitely couldn't as I would probably get too attached. Now seriously, I want you to be honest with me. 

I mean, this is figuratively you stripping off your clothes and lying down in front of him.

He didn't take your bait, so you feel rejected and embarrassed.

Even if he did take the bait, he probably wouldn't feel much, as he wouldn't have felt he'd done anything to earn the most precious thing you have to offer. So in the long run, you'd feel rejected and sad, anyway.

This is why offering yourself up to / throwing yourself at a man rarely works out well.

Haha what I actually meant was that I was trying to tell him that I’m not unsexual just cause I didn’t want to do it then and there if that makes sense. But yeah *sigh* I guess that didn’t sound how I wanted it to sound and I agree from our earlier interactions that he wasn’t feeling anything. It was just a bit like it wasn’t quite clear for a while as we had flirted by text etc 

[thecrucible]

I’m saying that some of his texts before we met that day had some innuendo in them if you know what I mean. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by thecrucible
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[Noproblem]

41 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I've never come on to a man who isn't mine in any way. I don't think much good ever comes of it. I think men are biologically wired to pursue and women are wired to receive, and respecting natural biology makes sense for so many reasons.

Even some of the most highly desired men who have lots of women coming after them have told me that it's always the women who do NOT pursue who intrigue them. They don't want it to be too easy. They're wired to value more what they have to work to get.

 

Not all creatures follow natural biology..Especially with humans, we use our minds and we change and evolves and each one of us think differently.

 This is a case of a guy who is not ready right now to be with anyone.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Noproblem

[thecrucible]

I thought I would be rejected when I asked him his thoughts but I just wanted to hear it from him I suppose. 

[Ruby Slippers]

We've all done things we later realize were misguided. The lesson, in my opinion, is don't come onto a man who isn't already your boyfriend.

I think modern women are doing a disservice by pursuing men. If they'd be feminine and receptive again, it would be so much better for both men and women.

All the men I've dated and had relationships with in my life have been absolutely gaga over my feminine dating demeanor. I look around on dates and see that I'm one of maybe 5% of women in the room who's even wearing a dress. They all tell me they feel more like a man than they can ever remember feeling - and it shows by what gentlemen they become in public, and sexyass animals in private. This is because I'm a feminine woman and don't try to do the man's job for him.

[K.K.]

Try not to take it personal. Easy to say, i know. But he’s probably still reeling from his recent break up. He probably was flirty over text. But when you got right in front of him, well.... you know how it goes with such a recent break up. You know that if you mess with somebody else, you’ll have to explain that if you happen to get back with the ex. Usually if there’s any chance of reconciliation in mind, you err on the side of caution. His mouth wrote you  checks that his heart couldn’t cash.

It wasn’t personal, I don’t think. If he didn’t like you or care, why would he have spent time with you at all? I hope you don’t sit around blaming yourself. It’s no ones fault. It just goes like that sometimes. 

[thecrucible]

I mean honestly part of me feels absolutely mortified and another part of me thinks it’s better to be prepared to be up front with people. 

@RubySlippers - I mostly advocate what you’re saying and usually I follow the same approach as you. This time I was a bit more assertive. I wasn’t trying to do his job for him though. I wouldn’t say I actively approached him that way if that makes sense. But assertive in that way can look different to a guy. I get that.

With this guy, I thought I had a chance but we did talk for hours so I know 100% what he was thinking and I have the full feedback that he did want to flirt with me but was more in a maybe mindset which obviously means no. 

As I say, I just want to feel less bad about this monumental way I messed up. I’m feeling a little vulnerable right now. 

[thecrucible]

2 minutes ago, K.K. said:

Try not to take it personal. Easy to say, i know. But he’s probably still reeling from his recent break up. He probably was flirty over text. But when you got right in front of him, well.... you know how it goes with such a recent break up. You know that if you mess with somebody else, you’ll have to explain that if you happen to get back with the ex. Usually if there’s any chance of reconciliation in mind, you err on the side of caution. His mouth wrote you  checks that his heart couldn’t cash.

It wasn’t personal, I don’t think. If he didn’t like you or care, why would he have spent time with you at all? I hope you don’t sit around blaming yourself. It’s no ones fault. It just goes like that sometimes. 

Thank you. Aww I just feel embarrassed because being forward with men tends to make me uncomfortable and isn’t my style. My friend said I should be more forward with him and thought I lacked communication skills. It’s against my better judgement - a bit out of my comfort zone. 

Yeah he did talk a lot about the breakup and I let him do that because we are already friends and I’m not just going to be horrible about that. He says he doesn’t want to get back with ex although they were together for years so that’s tough to go through  especially as she cheated on him. I pretty much knew from that point on that it wasn’t going anywhere but yeah I just wanted to hear it from him really. 

He says he doesn’t want it to be awkward between us. I think I misread his behaviour really when he took me out to dinner one night and paid the bill (to me guys do that if they’re interested but I think he’s just a polite guy). 

[thecrucible]

I was pleasant with him and didn’t react badly. I mean it’s not his fault. I told him he can message me whatever but I don’t think I’ll reach out to him because that’ll feel too weird for me. 

It’s just so strange as he liked me before but he had a gf and even though he kept messaging me a lot at the time, I just didn’t want to go there because he was taken. He asked me “why didn’t you say anything at the time?” but oh well. 

[thecrucible]

27 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

We've all done things we later realize were misguided. The lesson, in my opinion, is don't come onto a man who isn't already your boyfriend.

I guess my approach was clumsy. I wasn’t really trying to bed him but it probably gave the wrong impression in hindsight as looks very available of me I suppose. 

[thecrucible]

You know what I think I’m going through something at the mo. Broke up with controlling bf a few months ago and really haven’t quite recovered the self-confidence fully since that happened. 

[nospam99]

@Ruby. I guess you wouldn't consider me a man then ... I am not ''wired to value more what they have to work to get''. Anything, including a romantic relationship, has an intrinsic value independent of the effort required to obtain or achieve it. I am wired to, having been rejected, invest no more 'work' and just 'move on'. And one of the 'lessons learned' of the last couple of years trying OLD (I might be wrong) is that not receiving a response to a message that has been read by the woman is as much a rejection as a politely veiled 'get lost' message sent as a response.

[FMW]

@thecrucible, I don't think you should feel embarassed and certainly not mortified.  And you did NOT throw yourself at him.  I also doubt he had any issues with your looks (you mentioned having been thinner) either.

He obviously was interested in spending time with you, and I would take it as a compliment that he didn't try to hook up with you in his current situation.  He would know that he was only using you for sex.  He's still dealing with the breakup of a 6 year relationship where his partner left him for someone else.  That's a lot to unpack and deal with and after only 4 months he's not a good option to invest in emotionally.  And certainly not a good bet to jump right into sex with when you know you'll expect more.  

Also, his disclosure about not feeling empathy and being uncomfortable with physical affection from his parents is concerning.  

Hey, you put yourself out there and had some enjoyable hours with someone.  It wasn't a waste of time, I'm sure when you get over feeling awkward about it you will find there was something useful you can carry forward to your future experiences with other men.    

[thecrucible]

@Finding my way - thank you so much for the kind response. I should say I have social anxiety disorder so I feel emotions very strongly and it makes me feel bad to be straight up vulnerable with guys as it’s totally against my character in a way due to my mental health condition. Perhaps I’ll feel much better in a few days. Our chats were emotional and intense. I think he was just being polite offering friendship so I won’t reinitiate contact but I’ll be polite and reply if he contacts me.  
 

I still feel I’ve turned a corner in getting away from controlling ex and maybe that’s why being up front with people feels so alien and vulnerable. I cried a lot today. I don’t even think it’s him but just a lot of feelings coming to the surface. e.g. all the bad relationships in my past. 

[OpenBook]

17 hours ago, thecrucible said:

he also told me that he struggles to feel empathy with people and looks at things very logically. I guess this would jar with me as I'm quite an emotional person and feel things very deeply. He said he feels uncomfortable when his parents hug him for instance. 

Huhh that gave me the heebie-jeebies. He was trying to tell you something significant there. Reading back over the whole thing, it feels like he was saying "Back off, I'm not ready for this." Like he was throwing up signs trying to ward you off without hurting your feelings. If you're anything like most people, your interest comes through loud and clear to the opposite sex through your body language, your eyes, your tone of voice, etc. I think he picked up on that and didn't want to dance!

What the heck, it was worth a shot. Don't sweat it. Definitely don't beat yourself up over it.

As far as the lesson - I think what Ruby said above about respecting natural biology, and how men are intrigued by the women who DON'T pursue them - is so SO true. I hate it, because it takes away our ability as women to do our own picking (we gotta wait for him to approach us and make efforts to get our attention) and I think that really sucks and isn't fair. But I've observed over and over again that this is the way the human animal works. It always goes better when the guy does the chasing at the beginning of a romantic relationship.

[thecrucible]

57 minutes ago, OpenBook said:

Huhh that gave me the heebie-jeebies. He was trying to tell you something significant there. Reading back over the whole thing, it feels like he was saying "Back off, I'm not ready for this." Like he was throwing up signs trying to ward you off without hurting your feelings. If you're anything like most people, your interest comes through loud and clear to the opposite sex through your body language, your eyes, your tone of voice, etc. I think he picked up on that and didn't want to dance!

What the heck, it was worth a shot. Don't sweat it. Definitely don't beat yourself up over it.

Thank you. Yes although it was embarrassing that I made my interest obvious, I suppose it only helped me in the end. I did get a read on him before I asked the question to be honest so should have followed my gut. I guess I just wanted it confirmed from his side. 
 

Yeah aside from the empathy comment, he also said stuff about his girlfriend pressing him to commit to marriage before she left him. And he said that he’s more inclined right now to get a dog and be by himself as he doesn’t have freedom of his time when with a woman. He said he’d be quite happy living with a woman and doesn’t see why marriage is necessary.

It looks like the type of guy I thought he was, was based more in fantasy than reality.