Women Making the First Move

[major_merrick]

I tend to be aggressive for a girl, but it mostly comes out when I'm pursuing girls.  With my husband, I had a more difficult time being aggressive and letting him know what I wanted.  I think women are more often insecure about what they want and how they are perceived.  Men care less (in general) about that stuff and are less inclined to be passive. 

[PinkFlamingo]

11 hours ago, 5x5 said:

It might prompt some.

I will and have readily asked women out as an ongoing thing after having sex with them when I have enjoyed the sex and their company.

Although I can't speak for others, most of my ongoing sexual relationships have started out with sex, which were then followed by dating afterwards.

Yet as someone who has had no problem pursuing women and initiating sex, while also enjoying some women pursuing me and initiating sex. I've simply never presumed anything about where a sexual relationship, might go whether it begins with sex or sex follows closely after starting dating.

That said I have never carried on any dating relationship at all in the absence of early sex. Although in my experience which was a long time ago (1990s). I've had some women ask me "what the hell is wrong with you", when I didn't try to have sex with them on the first date. So for the most part I ended up having sex with women not long after meeting them or usually on the first date, although sometimes I still waited for the 2nd and 3rd date to go there.

Have you ever met a woman who was interested in you, but didn't want to sleep with you on a first date? I find first date to be quite fast, but when you want to slow it down the guys see it as rejection. Also, it is a bit annoying that some guys expect sex on a first date as a testride, it's something personal and beside, you just can't sleep with every guy you have a date with.

[Ellener]

I can be very direct sometimes and have to remind myself of men of my generation 'let him "be a man" ' sort of thing. No man wants to feel emasculated!

[5x5]

3 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

Have you ever met a woman who was interested in you, but didn't want to sleep with you on a first date? I find first date to be quite fast, but when you want to slow it down the guys see it as rejection. Also, it is a bit annoying that some guys expect sex on a first date as a testride, it's something personal and beside, you just can't sleep with every guy you have a date with.

Yes I have. My current wife, chose the third date to initiate sex.

Although with my wife she wasn't looking for a permanent mate when we started together, she was looking to sow her wild oats after deciding saving her virginity for marriage was silly. She just didn't get very far, since I was her second sex partner. She dumped the other guy after we had sex, yet 23+ years later we're still at it having been married for close to 21 years.

My third most significant and third longest sexual partner chose the end of our second date to let me know she was up for it. At the end of our first date she kissed me then before I said anything she said I'm not like that then said goodnight.

Then for our second date I partnered her to a party with evangelical Christian types who she met at university. After being separated from her for the night we stayed overnight in separate rooms for men and women. Then in the morning I decided I was going to let her go, because being an atheist I didn't want to date religious people. So we're on the train and she then apologises to me saying she was sorry, she didn't know what to expect and she wasn't like them. So we went back to hers and had sex.

As to expecting sex on a first date, I've had more than one woman complain when I didn't try to have sex with them on a first date.The fact is not all women like waiting for sex either. The shortest time from the first hello to sex for me was 10-15 minutes. Yet most people it tended to be after chatting and flirting for longer. I know and have  known women that have dumped guys, for not getting on with it in a timely manner.

I've certainly never expected sex on a 1st, 2nd & 3rd  date, yet it has always been very normal  amongst my generation and social circles in Australia. Sex isn't that big a deal, it's just lots of fun so why not.

That said I certainly haven't slept with everyone I dated, some I let go after the first date without even trying to get in their pants. 

[5x5]

3 hours ago, Ellener said:

I can be very direct sometimes and have to remind myself of men of my generation 'let him "be a man" ' sort of thing. No man wants to feel emasculated!

There's nothing wrong with being direct, good for you.

The idea that a man should feel emasculated because a woman asks them out, seems bizarre to me.

When I was a young man I had experience in skydiving, abseiling and a myriad of other risky activities. Plus I was a leader of men as an infantry NCO, was fit, confident, capable and had a pretty face as well. So why shouldn't women who were attracted to me ask me out

If a man is emasculated by a woman asking them out, they probably have bigger problems than just being emasculated.

Edited January 8, 2020 by 5x5

[Shining One]

7 hours ago, Ellener said:

I can be very direct sometimes and have to remind myself of men of my generation 'let him "be a man" ' sort of thing. No man wants to feel emasculated!

I don't understand this reasoning. How does a woman asking me out make me less of a man?

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Shining One said:

I don't understand this reasoning. How does a woman asking me out make me less of a man?

It doesn't of course, but it's how the encounter proceeds and makes someone feel. There's too much info to process too fast in many of the scenarios of 'meeting', and too much 'posturing' especially in online dating, so if the two people aren't 'in synch' with say expectations of outcome it can be ego-crushing.

Ego as in personal identity and self-esteem rather than the popular 'self-importance' it's become the shorthand for.

5 hours ago, 5x5 said:

When I was a young man I had experience in skydiving, abseiling and a myriad of other risky activities. Plus I was a leader of men as an infantry NCO, was fit, confident, capable and had a pretty face as well.

Not everyone is that confident in their abilities/looks/sense of welcome etc.

So-

5 hours ago, 5x5 said:

If a man is emasculated by a woman asking them out, they probably have bigger problems than just being emasculated.

Edited 5 hours ago by 5x5

yes, someone may well have 'problems'. But by my age I'd be surprised at anyone who says they don't unless they lived their whole life in one room ( and even more so then )

Any single one of us has a problem with thinking we're being propositioned or of propositioning someone else ( for date through sex through marriage ) then the realisation the other person meant no such thing, or even did but aren't ready to act on it...there was some kind of connection which for whatever reason wasn't on the same page.

Emasculation is a cultural issue from traditional gender roles, and as Maya Angelou said ( and she was very prolific in her relationships )' I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.'

[K.K.]

4 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Maya Angelou said ( and she was very prolific in her relationships )' I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.'

This is one of my favorites.No truer words ever spoken. 

[thefooloftheyear]

I'm kinda lazy in this area.....I just historically let them come to me...Never had any problems...

I know some women expect a guy to jump through hoops and put on a dog and pony show....I've never been that type of guy....Nor was I ever turned off by women who aggressively pursue...

My only advice I would give to women is realize that there are a lot of guys out there with the same attitude.. If he's your type then go for it....Most guys will be flattered....I guess the downside would be those guys may use a woman for sex that shows interest(ie:he doesn't have to like her, but he KNOWS he's got her where he wants so he can play her)., but I guess that's the caveat....She can control that by not putting out easily, and see if he hangs around,...If he doesn't then she probably has the answer to that question...

I have heard guys publicly hitting on women and its cringey to me...No way in hell Id ever do that!!

TFY

[Ellener]

51 minutes ago, K.K. said:

This is one of my favorites.No truer words ever spoken. 

I went to see her speak towards the end of her life, it broke my heart that no one responded to her song of 'this little life of mine'- oh my goodness, I meant 'this little light of mine', Freudian slip...the whole freaking auditorium should have sung with her and I kept going as long as my voice held out!!! and until all my friends thought I was being super-weird to persist.

[Ellener]

6 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I'm kinda lazy in this area.

Another cultural tradition 🤣

[K.K.]

1 minute ago, Ellener said:

I went to see her speak towards the end of her life, it broke my heart that no one responded to her song of 'this little life of mine'- oh my goodness, I meant 'this little light of mine', Freudian slip...the whole freaking auditorium should have sung with her and I kept going as long as my voice held out!!! and until all my friends thought I was being super-weird to persist.

Awwww! 💔 

[thefooloftheyear]

Just now, Ellener said:

Another cultural tradition 🤣

I don't get it....but hey..😄

 I mean do tigers look to break out of their cages at the zoo to get a meal or are they content with it being brought to them??

TFY

 

[K.K.]

29 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I'm kinda lazy in this area.....I just historically let them come to me...Never had any problems...

I know what you’re saying. That’s kind of how it works here too. You just hang out, if she likes you ... she comes up and let’s it be known. I just realized that my examples were about bars mainly which is kind of a bad example since pretty much everybody just hangs out with friends or at parties  and the man has to do nothing but be there. I think we treat men like men here. He’s the man and if she doesn’t respect him as such already ,she doesn’t approach. 

29 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

 

I have heard guys publicly hitting on women and its cringey to me...No way in hell Id ever do that!!

And that’s why! 😏

It probably depends on where you’re from. I’m a country girl. That’s the way we do it. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by K.K.

[K.K.]

19 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I don't get it....but hey..😄

Maybe she’s saying you’re a country boy. 

I don’t know you from Adam. It was just a guess and nothing wrong with a country boy if it applies. 🙂 

Edited January 8, 2020 by K.K.

[K.K.]

18 hours ago, CAPSLOCK BANDIT said:

In today's society, we have a lot of men who are, through technology, lifestyle etc. not as masculine as maybe a traditional man would be. Because of this, any attack on masculinity today, for the most part, is taken very seriously.

I believe, that the modern woman's response to the lack of masculinity in the men around them, are tattoos and piercings... I believe this is a, maybe subconscious tactic, to almost like, scare away men who are not very masculine. For some women, being around masculine men is something that they have always experienced, but for others, they seek masculinity because they've almost been sheltered from it... By less masculine men... Almost like a lashing out of sorts.

So I mean, less masculine men are going to approach less and are going to be less open to being approached... So as a woman, you really have to kind of mind your personal level of masculinity or risk almost challenging a dude with your own level of masculinity, if your level is high enough. Coming on strong with a dude who has low masculinity, will probably make him defensive or even outright scared.

For me personally, I have different levels of masculinity that I adopt, but typically if I see a woman covered in tattoos and piercings and I just throw myself at her, it usually works out really well and likewise, being very reserved works for women without much surface masculinity, but I personally do not like being approached by very masculine women... I like to be in control; a woman who doesn't let me have full control, because it like becomes a challenge to her, I really don't like that. If its fun, cool, but when these chicks get defensive and challenge me, while they are in this space where you know, its fine for them to hit me, but the second I hit back, its all bad, well, as a dude, I really don't want to be in that space with a woman, especially around other people, like at a club lets say, its just a bigger risk I feel like.

Yeah, if your a woman operating outside of "Hey, wanna come over?" I think you need to be super mindful of your femininity vs. masculinity and take a hard look at the guy you are approaching and adjust as best as you can, like you can start off strong, but if he is not receptive, then maybe just a "Hey, maybe we can talk later on?" as opposed to just continued persistence.

In addition, a great wardrobe choice for a woman who maybe struggles with the masculinity vs. femininity thing and how to like manage that, would be a hoodie... A hoodie, when worn and zipped, makes you look more masculine I feel like, you aren't showing much skin, you seem a little more closed off maybe, but then you have an outfit underneath that is more skin revealing, to kind of bring out your feminine traits when you need to, if you feel like the hoodie is gonna kinda muck up your approach a bit or vice versa, you can put the hoodie on and just be a bit more masculine.

You know what C.BANDIT? That really made absolute perfect sense to me. I read it over a bunch of times because I felt like I wasn’t getting it but then, BAM there it was. Of course! The masculine/feminine thing- absolute perfect sense. I get it! Thank you for taking time to help and for the advice. 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

4 minutes ago, K.K. said:

You know what C.BANDIT? That really made absolute perfect sense to me. I read it over a bunch of times because I felt like I wasn’t getting it but then, BAM there it was. Of course! The masculine/feminine thing- absolute perfect sense. I get it! Thank you for taking time to help and for the advice. 

If you get focused on masculinity vs. femininity as a construct, it can be difficult to see how both apply to men and women, but when you think of the two as a concept, rather than a construct, it becomes easier to understand how both of these traits are inherent in men and women to varying degrees; sure, there are alignments to these concepts vs. gender, but there are also exceptions.

[d0nnivain]

K.K. 

The threads that advise a woman to take a passive role tend to be more about actually asking for a date & paying for it. 

If a woman doesn't take some initiative, she will be alone along time.  You don't have to bold or assertive but you darn well better smile, make eye contact & flirt your tail off.  You can't be sitting alone in a dark corner with your head stuck in a book or computer then complain that no one approached you.  You have to look available & receptive.  If you are brave enough start a conversation. 

I tell this story often.  I'm a pretty outgoing woman.  To use internet parlance most would classify me as an AF but I am feminine.  I just have a high level of at least outward self confidence. 

I was at a singles event & met a handsome man.  I thought I was flirting my tail off.  Really, even for me I thought I was being brash & bold.  During the conversation I learned the guy was in the market for my professional services.  I had to leave to get to another event so I gave him my business card & told him that I'd be happy to help him with his business problem but I'd be happier if he called me for personal reasons.  I winked & left.  Again I thought I was being waaaayyyyy over the top.  During our 1st date the guy confessed that if I hadn't said what I said he never would have called because he wasn't sure if I was interested or just being nice.  

Society has emasculated men to a large extent.  People can't communicate any more.  They think a text is valid form of building relationship.  🙄  in this era of #MeToo, men are scared to death to approach women.  You have to make it easy on them.  You have to signal interest.  You have to make it risk free so the poor guy knows in advance that if gets up enough courage to ask you out he won't get shot down for his efforts.  

So yes, as a woman you still have to take some initiative even if you stop short of actually asking for that 1st date.  

IMO there is nothing wrong with the ask.  If you want to ask a man out for a date, do it. If he doesn't appreciate that, jumps to conclusions about your virtue or feels emasculated, he wasn't worth dating anyway.  If you are confident & at home in your own skin, a guy who is into you will be flattered.  

Edited January 8, 2020 by d0nnivain

[Piddy]

I'm glad I'm not single these days.  Too much to think about.  Again, in my day we met girls at clubs.  There really was little elsewhere to meet girls.  It was pretty simple.  See pretty girl, ask pretty girl to dance.  She says no, ask another.  When one says yes then engage her in conversation. 

I see no reason why women don't approach men the same way.  Human nature hasn't changed.  Attraction is attraction.  Like I said earlier, girls were asking guys to dance 40 plus years ago.  I agree that if you see someone you like let them know somehow.  Sitting back and hoping you get approached is an exercise in futility.

Do people even dance these days at clubs?  I've been out of the loop for awhile.  But I would think it still is to the victor go the spoils. You can't win in the dating game sitting on your butt and waiting.  Unless you're an 8, 9 or 10.  7's an below be aggressive.  

Approach, introduce yourself, say something complementary and you're off to the races.  If you're shy have a couple drinks to loosen up and go for it...........  And if you can't dance, take lessons.  We used to have American Bandstand and Soul Train.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Piddy

[Cookiesandough]

Something I think might help the ladies who are afraid of coming off as ~aggressive~ is to make the first move by approaching the guy and flirting, but then let him ask you out/take it from there.

Or if you ask the guy out, then back way off and let him pursue you once you’ve done that because then it’s more than clear you’re interested. That way you can tell he’s interested and you don’t have to feel you’re doing all the chasing.

 

its a dance  

Edited January 9, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[hotpotato]

On 1/7/2020 at 6:48 PM, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

A woman who approaches first should tread carefully. Some men will go along with it, not intending to really get to know the woman or even being attracted to her, hoping to get easy sex since they know she is interested. 

This is my concern. I dont want guys to be even more sexually aggressive. I guess it's not a big deal if one is only looking for the sex.

I've considered approaching first, but most of the guys I like are taken. I'd have to go somewhere specifically for singles.