FWB rules

[snowboy91]

4 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

What if you both have feelings for each other... like love... but you just don’t want the commitments like exclusivity etc ? 

 

That’s what I never really understood about fwb. It seems like so much of the delineation is focused on being cold and not having feelings for the other person. But we love our friends? We hug our friends, have breakfast, go out to eat, and talk about our feelings with friends. Because it feels nice and it’s an important part of healthy human intimacy. But we can’t have this with a friend with benefits ? It seems like a misnomer 

 

3 hours ago, Alpaca said:

If you were in love with someone would you really be okay with them having sex with other people while having sex with you?  

Some people truly are OK with this. That's why open relationships, polyamory etc exist.

Although these two posts got me thinking about the difference between FWB and an open relationship. So far my best answer is that FWB lacks the full commitment to share lives that any relationship has. Essentially you treat them as a friend like any other, but you have sex sometimes. 

[FMW]

I have a FWB, the first and I'm sure the last, so that's my only personal experience with it.  From what I read here, it is most definitely not a typical FWB situation  Yes, we DO love each other as friends, and were friends for several years prior to FWB.  And we DO have an agreement of sexual exclusivity to be safe.  But we also agreed when/if one of us meets someone we want to have a real relationship with, we'll stop the sex.  My FWB has a ton of baggage with young adult daughters that are still dependent on him financially and he financially supports their mother, his ex, who has a lot of medical and emotional issues. So he's not "available" for a regular relationship, and even if he was I wouldn't be up for dealing with his responsibilities to other women (ex wife, daughters).  For my part,  I'm just now getting to the point of feeling I might be ready for a regular committed relationship when I meet the right person.  So for all those reasons, it has worked for us for over a year.  We're in our mid 50s, we are clear with each other about the reality of the situation.  

If your "love" for each other is not a romantic crush type of love, if you care about each other as real friends, if you are prepared and able to handle the other meeting someone else and ending your FWB, then ok.  But that's a lot of ifs.  There's a lot of room for your "feelings" for each other to blow up and get really messy and hurtful.          

[FMW]

15 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

But we can’t have this with a friend with benefits ? It seems like a misnomer 

In my opinion, what most people call FWB is really just f***buddies.  Friendship takes a while to develop and involves caring and interest in the other person as more than just someone to have sex with.  So generally it seems when people say FWB, the friendship isn't real, so yes, it is a misnomer in that case.  

[preraph]

It's a scam, basically.  Some genius came up with the term "friends with benefits" so the woman would go along with it -- or a woman came up with it to convince herself it was something it wasn't.  

[Cookiesandough]

@Finding my way, thank you so much. Your post was helpful. I guess I am hesitant to start an FwB because I am not sure I could handle someone putting me on the back burner. Even when my girl friends do that, it hurts me a lot. When they are busy or leave me out of things. With a friend I’m also having sex with that would suck. indeed, maybe I’m not built for it. How do you handle situations like that with your fwb , or is he always available?

 

It sounds like you have a pretty good situation going. It definitely helps you were true friends. 9/10 fwb are not friends at all. It also helps that he has a “fatal flaw” that makes a relationship untenable. I’ve heard that is important in successful fwb. If he texted you tomorrow saying he found a gf and so he can’t see you anymore would you be upset at all? Would you just miss the benefits. 

[preraph]

If you just want to have casual sex, go have it and don't try to keep seeing them.  If you want to find someone to love, don't settle for being someone's f buddy.  There is no obligation or intent in FWB to develop a relationship. 

[Cookiesandough]

Yes @peraph, but what if you want friendship and romantic affection like kissing and late night cuddles with a hottie and you don’t want all the obligations that come with traditional committed relationships like sexual exclusivity, spending enough time with them, keeping them happy, satisfied, etc, worrying about their life and building a life together? 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Shining One]

I believe it takes some experience to get things right. My first FWB arrangement ended badly. I fell in love and it ended up costing us a six-year friendship. I eventually learned from that and can now maintain such an arrangement.

[carhill]

Leaving the sex part to the side, OP I tend to differentiate friendships as  a man from relationships by how I feel. We men tend to bond over activities and we're not on each other's minds in any emotional way in between. Took a lot of years as a younger man not being properly trained to work that out. We're simply not up in each other's business or worried about each other at an emotional level. We're 'friends'. I may have a best friend but I don't wake up in the morning missing him or being worried about him or feeling alone when he's not around. Same, when younger, most decidedly when a virgin, with female friends. I still see the same results with male friends at my age when I slip on the training, they're like 'Wha?'. That's simply not how they're wired for friendships. Women do what women do, I have no idea how they process that stuff.

Hence, if I did include sex with friends, there would be no partner/spouse-like emotional bond, they wouldn't be on my mind hourly/daily/weekly, whatever, rather would be humans that I enjoyed activities with, including sex. We often see anecdotes offered and generalities made about men divorcing sex from emotion/love so I'll accept that as valid. Hence, a man can have sex and feel nothing other than personal pleasure from the sex act, whether receiving or giving or both. When it's over, activity concluded, life goes on. I learned a lot about recreational sex from my exW since she participated in it when younger. She did demonstrate some marked ability to differentiate sex from emotions and bonding, even while married. Those were good life lessons and underscored how we're all wired differently. For some, FWB works, for others not their cuppa.

[FMW]

If my FWB met someone he wanted to get involved with and ended our situation, I'm sure I would have some feelings of regret, and even a bit of jealousy.  He's a very attractive guy that gets a lot of attention from women, so I've felt twinges of jealousy already, and he's said he has moments of feeling the same with me.  So it's not a clean, cut and dry thing.  You can't be intimate with someone and not have any feelings about things like that unless you're stone cold. But we have needs for intimacy that each other fills and it's a choice we've made, which includes dealing with any resulting awkward feelings. And I pay close attention to how I'm feeling all along the way.  

Honestly I'm not sure from what you've posted that you would be cut out for it.  You have to have a certain level of detachment along with the affection and love of a friend, you can't let your heart rule.  And also, if you tend to be a jealous or possessive person, there's a lot of opportunity for things to go badly.   

 

[FMW]

23 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

is he always available?

Oh, and no, as mentioned, plans have been cancelled on several occasions because his ex or his daughters need him.  It's disappointing, but it also keeps things in perspective and reminds me why a romantic relationship with him wouldn't work. 

[Shining One]

My most recent FWB was also a FWB in the past. We went on a few dates around eight years ago, determined it would not work out long term, but we enjoyed the sex. We kept that up for a few months, but broke things off when she found someone she wanted to be serious with. I naturally kept my distance while they were together. We only communicated on special occasions and we didn't see each other. Her relationship ended, but I was in one at the time, so she kept her distance. When my relationship ended last year, we started talking again. We were both single, so we started sleeping together. After a few months, she decided she wanted to find another relationship, so we cut back and eventually stopped once she found someone serious. I'm once again keeping my distance. Perhaps we'll hook up again in the future, perhaps not.

[preraph]

18 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Yes @peraph, but what if you want friendship and romantic affection like kissing and late night cuddles with a hottie and you don’t want all the obligations that come with traditional committed relationships like sexual exclusivity, spending enough time with them, keeping them happy, satisfied, etc, worrying about their life and building a life together? 

What about what he wants?  So if that's what you want, that's still not just friendship. That's a boyfriend who is nonexclusive and isn't obligated to take you out on dates or meet his parents.  So you find someone who is on the same page and doesn't want exclusivity and will happily date and sleep with other women at the same time.  That isn't that hard to find.  All you are looking for is an uncommitted relationship.  Or you could hire a male prostitute and request the "boyfriend experience."   

[Cookiesandough]

8 minutes ago, preraph said:

What about what he wants?  So if that's what you want, that's still not just friendship. That's a boyfriend who is nonexclusive and isn't obligated to take you out on dates or meet his parents.  So you find someone who is on the same page and doesn't want exclusivity and will happily date and sleep with other women at the same time.  That isn't that hard to find.  All you are looking for is an uncommitted relationship.  Or you could hire a male prostitute and request the "boyfriend experience."   

It’s harder to find than you think. All of my serious relationships started that way. Its all fun and games , then next thing you know, things are serious and when you want to get out you’re a horrible person who led them on.

Nevertheless, it just seems like it’s the term ‘friend with benefit’hat you draw issue with... Not the actual thing it usually is, which is a nonexclusive, casual relationship. And yea I’ve struggled with the term myself. It’s hard to imagine true friends who have sex and not a romantic relationship XX 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Cookiesandough]

Usually nonexclusive* 

Also a male prostitute is a completely different experience than a guy who is into you, who genuinely adore and like as a person, who you are attracted to, who you enjoy spending time with. Different. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Shining One]

6 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

It’s harder to find than you think. All of my serious relationships started that way. Its all fun and games , then next thing you know, things are serious and when you want to get out you’re a horrible person who led them on.

Are the guys in question similarly inexperienced with these arrangements?

[Cookiesandough]

I don’t think so. Most of my exes had fwbs. I feel like when you tell someone you’re not looking for a serious relationship and just want to have fun,  they see it as a challenge to change your mind

Edited January 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[preraph]

Well, Cookies, if they adore you, then you're not on the same page.  Are you basically saying you want a hot guy who adores you but you cheat on with his permission?

[FMW]

Well if you tell them right up front that all you want is casual and they continue to pursue you - then there's no problem.  You've been honest, you're free to enjoy.  If they end up having a problem with it later, it's not on you.  Plus, all relationships - including FWB - change over time, so there may come a time to just end it, and as long as you've been honest, again it's not on you if they get pissy.   

The problem is when you DON'T tell someone you just want casual and do things that make them think you are interested in more (continuing to see them once they've expressed their feelings, etc) and then decide to block and ghost when you're done.  In that situation, you do own responsibility for leading someone on. 

You're kind of all over the place in your postings, so my guess is that you are that way in your communication with guys - which may be a big part of the reason for some of the difficulty you've had in the past.  Maybe take some time alone to figure out exactly what you want.  Posting here is probably helpful with that.    

[Cookiesandough]

 I want to adore them too & it’s not about cheating. It’s not about seeing other people, but yes that’s one part of it. I corrected my post. 

No the last guy (who I am still seeing, we’re actually going out tonight) I told straight up when we first started hanging straight up I just want to have fun and he said cool. Then next thing I know, his friends all know me as his girl and he’s crying to me while drunk he’s never felt a connection like this in 5 years. Now I’ve already told him I don’t want a relationship even after that and we’re still hanging out. Let’s see how this goes. My ex before him I told I wanted to just date and nothing serious and he kept pressuring me and I finally just went with it because I didn’t want to lose him. And you’re right, the arrangements do change, they almost have to and it’s usually not good. But whatever, this thread isn’t about me. Sorry 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Cookiesandough]

Btw I’m pretty sure what I want and I mentioned it here. I felt like that was what a fwb was 

 

 

“want friendship and romantic affection like kissing and late night cuddles with that come without  .... spending enough time with them, keeping them happy, satisfied, etc, worrying about their life and building a life together?”

[preraph]

No.  FWB or f buddies don't "adore" you.  They have sex with you.  They don't necessarily want to cuddle either.  Once someone adores someone, they don't want to share them.  It's the way of the world.  It sounds like you're wanting a bunch of validation.  

[Alpacalia]

12 hours ago, snowboy91 said:

 

Some people truly are OK with this. That's why open relationships, polyamory etc exist.

Although these two posts got me thinking about the difference between FWB and an open relationship. So far my best answer is that FWB lacks the full commitment to share lives that any relationship has. Essentially you treat them as a friend like any other, but you have sex sometimes. 

I think they're both one and the same.

[Interstellar]

10 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Yes @peraph, but what if you want friendship and romantic affection like kissing and late night cuddles with a hottie and you don’t want all the obligations that come with traditional committed relationships like sexual exclusivity, spending enough time with them, keeping them happy, satisfied, etc, worrying about their life and building a life together? 

Sounds like you need a gigolo. The illusions of love without the trappings of one.

There is a documentary called The Great Happiness Space, in Japan there are bars that women can go to in order to fulfill their illusions of love. It’s essentially the boyfriend experience. They show you a binder full of headshots of the male hosts aka the “boyfriend” and you pick and choose as if you’re ordering from a menu in a restaurant. And from there the guy would come to your table, show you a good time and if he senses you like the bad boy type then he becomes one.  He listens to you, makes you laugh, and offers you drinks of course, etc...You also kinda feel for the male escorts because on their part, they have to drink copious amounts of alcohol each night so the bar would make money and to impress the girl. Yes, they can take you or them home.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Interstellar

[Cookiesandough]

6 hours ago, Interstellar said:

Sounds like you need a gigolo. The illusions of love without the trappings of one.

There is a documentary called The Great Happiness Space, in Japan there are bars that women can go to in order to fulfill their illusions of love. It’s essentially the boyfriend experience. They show you a binder full of headshots of the male hosts aka the “boyfriend” and you pick and choose as if you’re ordering from a menu in a restaurant. And from there the guy would come to your table, show you a good time and if he senses you like the bad boy type then he becomes one.  He listens to you, makes you laugh, and offers you drinks of course, etc...You also kinda feel for the male escorts because on their part, they have to drink copious amounts of alcohol each night so the bar would make money and to impress the girl. Yes, they can take you or them home.

Haha...Japan has so much cool stuff I wish we had here. I remember seeing posters for this around when I was there. Their concept of strip clubs are different too and prostitution is practically legal there I think? You pay for ‘sets’ which is basically more of a gf/bf experience. It’d be funny just to try. I tried to get my ex to go into one with me when we visited shinjuku but he chickened out lol. I don’t think I would use this though. Like I said, I wouldn’t feel the same if I had to pay the person to spend time with me. It’s all about the real connection. Otherwise, I’d just feel weird. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Cookiesandough