jah526 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 My mom passed away a few years ago. She loved my siblings and me unconditionally and we felt the same for her. She didn’t have a good relationship with my dad though they remained married. She had a will. She also had handwritten notes of specific items that she wanted my siblings and me to have. The will states that all household items belong to the surviving spouse. So, in so many words, my dad has stated he doesn’t feel obligated to abide by her handwritten wishes. My siblings and I have pretty much ceased contact with him. He is now bribing me with some of those items, wanting me to come pick them up in person so he can continue his emotional abuse. Some of them mean a great deal to me because they evoke certain memories of my mom. I am torn. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Go pick them up. Your mother wanted you to have them and that is the most important thing. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Go pick them up. Your mother wanted you to have them and that is the most important thing. I agree that you go pick the items up...but, take someone with you Edited January 11, 2020 by alphamale 3 Link to post Share on other sites
FMW Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Depending on what your mother wanted you to have, your father is either rightfully holding on to marital property that isn't necessarily reasonable for him to lose just because your mom died, OR he's being petty if the items were only of sentimental value and nothing he would miss. Without knowing why the relationships with him were bad, it's hard to say what you should do. So based solely on what's included in your post, I agree with the others, go see him and get the items your mother wanted you to have. And also, because I don't know what he's done to alienate all of you, I would recommend making sure you can live with writing off your only remaining parent, you don't want to have regrets later. I'm sorry you're in a tough situation. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author jah526 Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 They’re items of sentimental value (to me) that he was planning to give to someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
nospam99 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 If the handwritten notes are dated OR your sibs can testify that the notes postdate the will AND you have $ to throw at legal fees, discuss with a lawyer. Be careful that Dad doesn't bait and switch i.e. not give the items after you visit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author jah526 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, nospam99 said: If the handwritten notes are dated OR your sibs can testify that the notes postdate the will AND you have $ to throw at legal fees, discuss with a lawyer. Be careful that Dad doesn't bait and switch i.e. not give the items after you visit. You know, this is something I never considered. The notes absolutely do postdate the will, and they are signed and dated by her. We had gone to see a lawyer but his lawyer ended up finding a loophole and he basically stole our inheritance. We decided not to fight him on it. The only thing I really want? The pictures of my beautiful mom. He won’t even give me one. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 57 minutes ago, jah526 said: We had gone to see a lawyer but his lawyer ended up finding a loophole and he basically stole our inheritance. “He stole” as in the lawyer or as in your Dad? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author jah526 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mr. Lucky said: “He stole” as in the lawyer or as in your Dad? Mr. Lucky My dad. My parents had a trust. His lawyer found a way for him to move the majority of funds out if it, basically on a technicality. Link to post Share on other sites
Angelflower Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 There really is nothing you can do except hope that he leaves it to you when he dies. Having a trust is not an unusual thing and actual has many benefits. Usually when the trust moves over to the other survivor there will be a court date. You could go to that and plead your case to the judge but unless you can say something alone the lines of being a primary caregiver... I really don't think the judge would agree but I could be wrong. My parents had a trust and my dad did the same thing to me and brother when our mom died. He went so far as to cut us out of the trust at that court date and leave it all to the grandkids. He then went on a country wide trip to let them all know his new plan. It was a miserable few years there dealing with that. Lucky for us he changed it back to what my mom and him agreed too 6 months before he died. The grandkids were not very happy when he did died and they found out. They were expecting a payout that didn't happen... but that's the kind of person my dad was. It turned out ok for my brother and I in the end... I hope your situation does too. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I'd bring a witness and go get the stuff. How you proceed from there depends on whether you want a relationship with your father or not. If not, you can try a legal means again. If there's no hope there, you can always bring some rough friends and strong-arm him. It really depends on your goals and values. Inheritance issues make me so glad that neither of my parents had two nickels to rub together. Dead, gone, and outta here... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author jah526 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 Angelflower, thanks for your reply. The trust didn’t move over to him exclusively when my mom passed as I then became a co-trustee. I went to a lawyer to try to protect it, as he had begun talking about spending it all. But in the end when his lawyer found him a way to split it and take the lion’s share, we decide not to fight it, although I suppose we did have a case. It wasn’t so much about the money per se, but about what my mom worked hard all her life to provide for us. Anyway, I consider it gone, and now I’d just really like to have a few photos and mementos of her life. Link to post Share on other sites
Angelflower Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I totally get it. My mom gave me her wedding ring on her death bed and then dad expected me to give it back to him later that day. not! I agree with MM about bringing a witness and go get the stuff. He might not act out as much. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I'd go to see him to get the items and play the role for the couple of hours that you need to. BTW, I'm not saying your Dad is right because IMO he isn't but if he was legally able to keep what was essentially his by law are you saying he shouldn't have kept it ? I'm only asking because the courts usually don't work on loopholes and you are talking about money.. I know in my state the spouse always gets the IRA's and 401-k's regardless of what a will says, it's a federal law I believe.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jah526 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 The trust was a family trust and was meant to encompass the entire estate. I became a co-trustee when my mom passed. He was the other co-trustee. Due to some oversight or sloppiness, the majority of funds in the estate were not specifically titled to the family trust, and these were the ones he moved out. However, the intent, and I am sure what my mom believed, was that the entire estate was held under the trust. Link to post Share on other sites
CAPSLOCK BANDIT Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 If her will was done up by a lawyer, you might be able to sue whoever did it for her... If there is a trust involved, that lawyer should of known enough to be aware that a trust is a specified, pre-determined thing, where as an estate is basically everything else left out of the trust. Your dad sounds like a real POS, hopefully you can get what you want from him. Link to post Share on other sites
schlumpy Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 This is a simple issue that is being complicated by human beings. Who would have guessed? There is a will. The will states the surviving spouse receives all household items from the marriage. That's pretty much cut and dried. The will could have been changed before your mother's death unless her passing was sudden or she was not of sound mind. You can spend a lot of money trying to argue that handwritten notes that do not have any of the accepted legalities, such as witness signatures, should abrogate the original will. If you want the items that you indicate your mother wanted you to have, you will have to negotiate that with your father. I understand you don't like it. I probably would not either. It seems like the death of someone close always brings out the worst in family members. Instead of old battles and grievances being put aside, they intensify. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beatcuff Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 13 hours ago, jah526 said: The trust was a family trust and was meant to encompass the entire estate. I became a co-trustee when my mom passed. He was the other co-trustee. Due to some oversight or sloppiness, the majority of funds in the estate were not specifically titled to the family trust, and these were the ones he moved out. However, the intent, and I am sure what my mom believed, was that the entire estate was held under the trust. OP, i am NOT attorney but in a field that sees trust often. if i had a dollar --- it is all too common for grantors fail to 'fund' a/k/a re-title the property in the trusts name. intent is guessing, doing is making it clear, since this has been review by YOUR attorney it appears you have NO recourse (stop blaming your dads attorney). further it appears items not in the trust are now your dads. you have no legal avenues to the items you want. you can continue to blame 'technicalities' (which is where the law lives) and complain about what should have happened or be practical: your dad is offering items you want, go get them, suffer with his 'bs' while you are there then move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 OP I am so sorry. I realise so much now how blessed my own family is in kindness we worked it out between us after my dad died, I actually signed over a huge chunk of money to my sister and said 'I trust you' and told her to do what was best for our disabled brother. Regarding the ornaments, just go and take away what you can. We had a similar situation because my father had remarried, then subsequently the new wife wanted nothing to do with any of us. But even if you don't get her actual things you have the greatest gifts she gave you, her mothering, and the way you deal with life that would honour her memory. 10 minutes ago, beatcuff said: your dad is offering items you want, go get them, suffer with his 'bs' while you are there then move on. exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jah526 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, beatcuff said: OP, i am NOT attorney but in a field that sees trust often. if i had a dollar --- it is all too common for grantors fail to 'fund' a/k/a re-title the property in the trusts name. intent is guessing, doing is making it clear, since this has been review by YOUR attorney it appears you have NO recourse (stop blaming your dads attorney). further it appears items not in the trust are now your dads. This was just to explain what happened since someone asked. My lawyer was going to pass it on to an estate specialist and at that point we decided not to fight it. This all happened a couple of years ago and as I mentioned above, I consider it gone. I consider my relationship with him gone as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, jah526 said: I consider my relationship with him gone as well. Nobody else in your whole extended family has pictures of your Mom? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author jah526 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. Lucky said: Nobody else in your whole extended family has pictures of your Mom? Mr. Lucky They might but I am not close to them. When I was young we moved across the country so I didn't really grow up knowing them. The pictures they are likely to have are ones from before she married my dad. Anyway, I do have a few but no good recent ones. The pictures were another thing she had on her list of things she wanted me to have. Link to post Share on other sites
ChatroomHero Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 22 hours ago, jah526 said: The trust was a family trust and was meant to encompass the entire estate. I became a co-trustee when my mom passed. He was the other co-trustee. Due to some oversight or sloppiness, the majority of funds in the estate were not specifically titled to the family trust, and these were the ones he moved out. However, the intent, and I am sure what my mom believed, was that the entire estate was held under the trust. I mean it is his property via marriage. You mention funds too, sure seems like that would rightly be his money and property. If he had passed first and had a mistress, could he have put 1/2 of their retirement fund and their bedroom set in a trust to a friend and that friend would come and take your mom's bedroom set and 1/2 of the retirement fund? To me it just seems that yeah, that's his stuff and he is still alive. I would take him up on his offer. I mean if she had a unicorn statue that she knew you loved and wrote a note saying she wanted you to have it, but he loved it because it reminded him of her and when he bought it on their first date, I am not sure I would expect him to give out all of her stuff that is actually his too. Especially with money, I am not sure I have heard of funds being dispersed to beneficiaries when one spouse was still alive, I mean it's his money. I would respect that first and foremost and express the things of hers you really want...and if he wanted to sell them instead, offer to buy it from him. Hopefully he would give it to you based on your mother's wishes but i would still respect that it is his property. Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Clavel Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) so sorry this has happened Edited January 13, 2020 by Miss Clavel 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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