Maybe I'm Crazy, but .

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

Hello, new to the forum here and looking for some advice and external perspective on a situation that has been bothering me.  This post is a little bit long-winded, so bear with me.

My wife of 30 years and I are in a ‘sexless’ marriage.  We have sex 2-3 times a year, which seems to put us in the ‘sexless’ category . . . not my preference though, I’d be happy with about 4 or 5 times that amount.  When we were dating, sex was 2-3 times a week, which was fine.  Things tapered off pretty quickly once we were married.  I know guys joke about there being a sex drought after marriage, and that is  probably true in a lot of cases. I was just surprised at how rapid the roll-back was for us.

It seems like the 2-3 times per week quickly went to 2-3 per month and then further down to only several times a year.  I have always wanted to have more frequent sex with my wife than what she wants.  Early in our marriage, my attempts to initiate intimacy were frequently rejected.  Once the kids came along it was constant rejection.  I got frustrated and eventually gave up trying to initiate things.  I figured if she wants to make love, she knows were I am . . . right on the other half of the bed.  I know she was often tired at the end of the day, being a SAHM, but still. . .

When she would be in the mood, she would typically start rubbing my back while I was asleep (or half asleep) to wake me up.  I would wake up and we would embrace, kiss, etc., etc., etc.  I figured that if I was going to have any intimacy at all in our marriage I should always respond when she makes the move.  I just felt frustrated that she would never oblige when I made the first move.  This has gone on for decades.  

We always have sex on our anniversary and usually we go away somewhere, which makes it special.  Birthdays are a no-go, and Valentine’s Day ? . . . forget-about-it.  Other times are just so sporadic with months and months in between.  I may be wrong, probably wrong, but it seems like sex for her has been only to serve a purpose.  When we were dating it was to grow our relationship, which generally involves frequent sex.  Once married, there was no need for that and the focus was more to have children, which we did . . .  Once we had a family, then even less sex was ‘needed’. . .  So it seems.

For the times when we did have sex, there was no trouble with my male arousal, and I remember my wife commenting to me when hearing about the ED problems of others “you don’t have that problem . . . “.  I took that as a great compliment. 😍

There have been a few pleasant surprises along the way . . . not many, but a few that come to mind. . .

After we had been married about 12 years I had been doing some physical outside work.  I quickly developed a decent set of ‘6-pack abs’, which also seemed to strengthened my male appendage. We had sex one night, and my erection was rock-hard.  It was a great experience for us.  🥰   So, great that she wanted to have a repeat performance the very next night.  Same thing . . . rock-hard, etc., etc.  I was pleasantly surprised the we had made love 2 nights in a row, which was something that had not happened since before we were married.  My thoughts were that I could get really used to this, and was planning on perhaps a third night in a row ???  Nope . . .  did not happen; not even any time shortly thereafter . . . back to the drought.  🙁

More recently, about a year ago, we actually had sex on New Year’s Eve, which is another thing that had not happened since before we were married.  That too was a pleasant surprise.  😀

Of course with age, making love has evolved from being like the ‘Indianapolis 500’ to something more like climbing up a cliff.🙄   I take the blame for that (my 6-pack abs are more like ’30-pack abs’ now and some level of ED has set in).  As a means of improving the situation, I starting using the ‘little blue pill’ (LBP). . . which helps, but by no means is a miracle pill (in case anyone was wondering).  The New Year’s Eve instance was our first attempt at using the LBP, and it took a lot longer to take effect . . . more like 60-90 minutes rather than the advertised 20 minutes.  The problem being that with a 1-2 hour ‘notification’ period combined with highly infrequent opportunities, and not knowing when they will happen, it is hard to say when to take them and when not to.  They often go to waste and I’m left with an erection that has no mutual purpose. 😕

For me, I tend to be better at the physical part of intimacy if I have frequent practice. Having sex only a few times a year is not what you’d call practice.  This results in performance anxiety on my part which makes our few times all that much less enjoyable. 😨

Over the past year or so, we made love on NYE, as mentioned, then not again until our anniversary, then shortly after on a vacation we had sex twice.  I would have preferred 5-6 times on the vacation, but that’s just me. Oh well.  In total, I count 4 times in 12 months with about a 9-month dry spell during the 12 months.

Just recently, we were on vacation at a resort and I figured that we would have some love-making there. (I even made sure to have a good supply of LBP’s).  I tried initiating things a couple nights in a row, but got flat out rejected.  On the third night, my wife told be in a fairly abrupt manner that she was not feeling well and to leave her alone.  This hit me hard. . . 😯  maybe not so much on what she said, but how she said it.  Perhaps I was not being sensitive to her situation of not feeling well.  The food/water at the resort was giving her GI troubles.  I was really not aware until she mentioned it.

Over the next day a feeling just came over me of despair and depression, like a ‘where am I and how did I get here’ sort of feeling.  I started having flashbacks in my mind of some turbulent times when we were first dating.  I felt like I was in a crisis.  😰

I know I need to broach the subject of ‘sexless’ with my wife at some point, it is just a matter of finding the right time so that the conversation can be productive.

Overall, our marriage has been great.  I dearly love my wife and would be lost without her. 😍  We spend lots of time together, have an awesome family w/ kids, and we share common goals.  People tell us things to the effect that we are the perfect family and live a wonderful life.  My wife and I both know that is not true, nothing is perfect.  My thoughts are that if our life looks perfect to some, then their life must be kind of sh*tty.  j/k  🤣

We have been empty-nesters for about 10 years now, and I thought being such would change things in the bedroom, but it has not.  We both have careers and work a normal schedule.  We are homebodies and don’t go out that much.  My wife went back to work once the kids were old enough to be on their own.  She has been working steadily for almost 20 years now.  Money is not a problem.  I will say that her job recently has been a lot more stressful than in the past. 😖  My job is pretty low stress. 😊  Our plan is for me to work a bit beyond a normal retirement age and then we can both retire together.  (she is a bit younger than me)

I have thought about the possibilities of our situation . . .  Perhaps she has lost interest in me? Could she be having affairs? 🙄 Her behavior does not check any of the ‘boxes’ that you typically see in a person who is going outside their marriage.  The only thing that has caused me any suspicion over the years is that when she would go out shopping, she’d be gone for 3-4 hours and not come back with a lot of packages. Even so, I figure that affairs usually reveal themselves as the passion for the other person grows, so I would eventually find out.  There has been nothing that I could tell.

My main concern is that I have been blind in the face of obvious things in the past.  I should mention that I had a short (1 year) marriage long before meeting my wife, and that relationship was nothing but affairs and cheating, which I was blind to at the time. 😵  When I did eventually pull the blinders off; everything was plain as day to see, and I quickly moved on.  I met my wife a few years afterward.

I am also aware that some people can have affairs and keep the lid on them for years.  I have a friend who had a wife and kept a girlfriend on the side for 20 years!  (He is now without either)  So, there is always that possibility, I guess.  

I have never gone outside of our marriage, I am loyal as a puppy dog. 🐕  I just worry that without a healthy amount of physical love, we will grow apart.  It may even help my wife deal with the stress of her job.  She hopes her job will get better, but I don’t think it will.  She is worried about finding another job now that she is older.

I worry that in discussing it with my wife is that it may lead to ‘obligatory sex’.  That is not what I am looking for . . . I want us to have genuine physical attraction.  I also fear that if there is an affair involved, what I am now experiencing is ‘pity sex’.  That would be very upsetting for me, because I find it totally demeaning and disgusting (BTDT in my first marriage). 🤮

I have so many questions. . .

Would a low desire for sex be something that is normal for my wife?  🙄

Is it normal for some women? 🤔

Or would there be issues that I am not seeing (like affairs or something else)?  

Frankly, if there are legitimate reasons for infrequent intimacy, I can deal with it and be supportive.  😀

I have read (somewhere) that in these (sexless) situations both partners are not happy about it.

What could my wife be feeling? 🤔

Why am I suddenly feeling that I need to do something about it now?  Why not before?

Why was I having flashbacks to turbulent times?  Is it an insecurity that I am feeling?

Or am I just going crazy ??? 🤪

What am I missing here ??? 🤔

Thank you for reading this and any advice you may have . . . I know that I have to answer many of these questions myself by talking it through with my wife, but I am looking for some advice and external perspective.  👍

PS:  I enjoy reading some of the stories throughout this forum, particularly in the more ‘lively’ sections.  People can sure do some sh*tty things to their SO’s during relationships.  And here is some advice for you younger (20-something) folks who have bad things happen to them in their relationships . . .

1) Yes, your bf/gf did it intentionally, even though they were blacked-out drunk.  🤬
2) Always remember, it takes 2 to tango.
3) What is good for the gander is also good for the goose.

[mark clemson]

Had some thoughts for you below for the quoted questions.

19 minutes ago, UCanCallMeCrazy said:

Would a low desire for sex be something that is normal for my wife?  🙄

Is it normal for some women? 🤔

Or would there be issues that I am not seeing (like affairs or something else)?  

Frankly, if there are legitimate reasons for infrequent intimacy, I can deal with it and be supportive.  😀

What could my wife be feeling? 🤔

Why am I suddenly feeling that I need to do something about it now?  Why not before?

Why was I having flashbacks to turbulent times?  Is it an insecurity that I am feeling?

Or am I just going crazy ??? 🤪

 I know that I have to answer many of these questions myself by talking it through with my wife, but I am looking for some advice and external perspective.  👍

1 - Apparently

2 - Yes

3 - Possibly

4 - That's very nice of you, but... what about your needs?

5 - Many things are possible. Possibly she seldom reaches orgasm and so "why bother"; possibly she finds sex distasteful; possibly she simply has low drive. Those are just a few...

6 - Life is short ?

7 - You could be (reasonably after this much time) anticipating some arguments as you try to broach this.

8 - No, not crazy. We get this a lot around here. What may seem odd to you is that you've reached a point where you've finally decided to ask that your needs be met.

9 - You do, but yes external perspectives help.

 

So, the time to address this was many years ago. However, it's not too late IMO to ask that your needs reasonably be met. Ask for as much sex as you want, but don't expect to get all of it (unless your wife starts to enjoy it more). Be kind, but also insistent about it. Your wife is presumably reasonably happy with the current status quo and so may be willing to give a little, but may also be interested in keeping it down to a dull roar. Hard to say.

Not to be a bit mean but your "nice surprises" sound a bit like crackers being tossed to a starving man. Apologies, but I do think that's one way to see this.

It's fair to point out that your needs haven't been being met and you haven't made a big deal about it. It's not fair to blame her for that as it's incumbent on you to speak up (better late than never I suppose).

Consider approaching this as you would any major negotiation (because that's probably what it is). Think ahead about the likely responses and what you will say. IF the answer is "sure let's try" how will you react? If the answer is "No", what is the plan? Suggest marriage counseling? I want to see hookers (NOT recommended)? If the answer is no and no counseling either, are you willing to divorce? You need to have this thought through IN ADVANCE.

 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

Man, those are all fair questions...   yet it is SO much to contemplate (for we who are new to your story).

IF this were years ago, we could at least have a fair chance of measuring frequency  and cross-referencing that  with the arrival of each subsequent child.

(childbirth can alter a woman's desire)

 

I'm guessing  that birth control isn't involved, so this isn't one of those where a switch in types of BC would really work wonders.

 

Most significant is the barrier which has you unable to bring about and maintain a conversation with your wife about the related picture.

 

We can't even assess properly/fairly the chance of her ever having had affairs...   (people here tend to need the then-current specifics to venture what is still a guess about such things)... 

 

We don't even know anything about her upbringing/background...  to understand whether perhaps  her own mother coincidentally spent much of her later life IN a relationship yet NOT sharing sexual intimacy with a partner.

 

I can't even fathom the frustration you must know.

 

My impulsive best idea is that you go alone to a marriage counselor (or, IF you can find someone more specific relating to a lack of sexual intimacy within a marriage)... and learn avenues and inspiration for you to initiate the conversations you must have there at home to address any of this.

 

Your 30-year marriage is represented by little more than a brush of air here... (for practical reasons),  but there are so many potential variables that it makes it challenging for people here to really help.

 

Here, let me ask this question:  How do you honestly believe your wife feels about you, and about the marriage???

 

 

[mark clemson]

Sorry, got disconnected. Just to add a couple other points -

I wouldn't go tossing around the D-word in a marriage. IF you decide divorce is on the table (presumably as a last resort) then bring it up only at an appropriate time. Otherwise, don't mention it. Wives can get pissed off and bluffs sometimes get called. Poor negotiation.

If you see a marriage counselor (and I suspect you will be at some point) be sure to choose one with solid experience and who genuinely specializes in couples and/or sexual counseling/therapy.

If/when you do have sex, be sure to be loving and give lots of validation, appreciation, praise, etc. Don't vent your frustrations (even though they're understandable) as that will probably shut her down at least temporarily.

One thing you can consider doing now (while your sorting all this out) is cuddling, e.g. in the mornings. If you start doing this, make sure it's clear you can do it without it leading to sex. Your wife will probably enjoy it and it may be a good way to re-initiate more physical contact and may, possibly, lead to some add'l sex once she feels fully comfortable with it.

[preraph]

Don't know how old she is, but there can be complications as women age.  Things can fall up in there or get delicate.  Or she just might not have much sex drive.  Or she might have just gotten so familiar with you that it feels like she's having sex with her brother or something.  I do think counseling is something to try.  It may not work.  But you'll get it all out on the table.  You love her to pieces, so at least you'll know what you're dealing with.  Good luck.  

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

Thanks for the replies so far . . .

Just to answer the questions posed . . .

Ages: Wife is late 50's, I am mid-60's.

Wife's mother - Divorced when my wife (as a child) was about 8 yrs old.  Her father was out at bars, having affairs, etc.  The mother never re-married; father is re-married  They (her parents) are both still alive and are quite cordial to each other; see each other as friends often.  Father has really cleaned up his act.  I tell my wife that her father is just trying to get into heaven. 😄  The mother is a saint.

My parents - 60 year marriage.  They died a day apart about 5 years ago.

Think through the conversation dynamics ahead of time (yes, thanks)

D-word.  The only circumstance that I would consider & do the D-word is if there was an affair.  My wife knows I have been through a lot in my past life and have zero tolerance.  I expect no less from her, if the tables were turned.

Paid gratification? . . . No.

Details of our marriage - not practical to put a 30-year memoir in a thread.  We rarely argue, but if there are some specific details that would help, let me know, happy to share things that would be helpful.

Counselor - probably.  I'm thinking I'll see how an initial conversation goes.

"Crackers to a starving man" - I'll have to remember that one . . . nice graphic. 🙄

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

Also, birth control - wife used the pill early in our marriage.  Once we were done having kids, I got a vasectomy.  That was about 25 years ago.  

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

14 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

 

Man, those are all fair questions...  

Here, let me ask this question:  How do you honestly believe your wife feels about you, and about the marriage???

 

 

That’s a big worry for me . . . Is that the lack of intimacy is related to how she feels about me.

I think that I am ( probably have become) a safe haven for her,  but not someone who excites her.

Your question prompts me to think about different ways to approach the conversation though.  Maybe asking what she really thinks about me is a way to start the dialogue, rather than a blunt approach of “why do we have a sexless marriage”?

I appreciate the insight.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

On 1/13/2020 at 6:49 PM, UCanCallMeCrazy said:

 

Wife's mother - Divorced when my wife (as a child) was about 8 yrs old.  Her father was out at bars, having affairs, etc.  The mother never re-married; father is re-married  They (her parents) are both still alive and are quite cordial to each other; see each other as friends often.  Father has really cleaned up his act.  I tell my wife that her father is just trying to get into heaven. 😄  The mother is a saint.

 

There are some elements of interest within this...  and your wife's initial sense of  marital relationships may well have been quite a tornado.   (IF she was precisely 8 when the divorce happened, then it was likely abrew (er, poor choice of words perhaps?) for a year or two prior... and maybe the reasons were in the air even prior to that.

 

Father cleaning up his act toDAY is (helpful for environs, BUT doesn't reverse any effects of what your wife likely witnessed as a child).

WE HERE (without training) cannot likely connect direct dots with regard to your wife's feelings of today and what, specifically, she witnessed when young.

Just be aware that there could be some foundation  back there.

(perhaps especially with {your mother-in-law} being a saint )   (not likely having effected her own marital fate)

[SincereOnlineGuy]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:35 PM, UCanCallMeCrazy said:

Also, birth control - wife used the pill early in our marriage.  Once we were done having kids, I got a vasectomy.  That was about 25 years ago.  

 

... so clearly it hasn't been any side effect of birth control that your wife may have biologically lost interest.   (crossed that one off)

[SincereOnlineGuy]

It's so easy for me to sit here and envision just the needed vulnerability  you would share in an authentic conversation of the sort which your marriage needs to share.

 

But far too often mates somehow paint themselves into a corner  in terms of verbal interaction, and they find that they "just can't..."  then bring about the deep, personal conversations which they NEED, in order to have any prayer at resolving this.

A certain sex advice guru likes to point out that  "for women, sex begins at dinner..."

 

And it is so damn easy to just go about your life (as a husband) while becoming so routinely tied-into your work/hobbies/children that you never create time and undivided attention for your wife.  

(and clearly that does NOT mean  merely locking the bedroom door and getting right to it)

 

It means slowing down  enough to share more than a breakfast table and (well, were it 1975, I'd have written  "... afternoon paper").

 

If this weren't a public forum,  I would ask you to list the most repetitive things your wife criticizes about you, over the semi-long haul.

 

It seems so fair to at least figure out whether her own biology independent of all else has been the single greatest factor in this relatively sexless result, OR  whether she is "not feeling it"  based on recurring resentments she has about you or choices you've made.

 

The whole, traditional notion of   {husband begging for sex, week after week, and getting nothing}  likely exhausts both parties to no avail...

 

the VULNERABILITY needed to make considerable gains during a mere conversation a-BOUT how your relationship has evolved to this  is a scary move... juuuuuuuuuuuuuust because you've been SO NEAR to that person for SO LONG...  and they **matter** to you, SO much...   that sometimes you just talk yourself out of conversations you need to share.

 

I even wish SHE could be here, without your knowing, and confide in us ALL of what she feels about you and about your place in her life.

 

I do NOT have any cause to sense that you are the bad guy...     BUT the better guy you are, the more capable you'd be of bringing about the conversation you need.

 

And what IF a simple marriage counselor could draw-out the ANSWERS you need to understand... if you BOTH were to attend sessions even withOUT it being at all related to divorce???

 

You're still young enough to have a whole lot of grand times ahead... IF you can learn the resolution to this...  so it IS worth the attempt.

 

 

 

 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I don't think your wife is having an affair, or ever has.  I think she just has a low sex drive.  You don't even seem to have a high sex drive, just normal.  

It is definitely worth it to try to revive this area of your relationship as you go into retirement.  What you desire does not sound at all unreasonable.  It's not like you're asking for it every day or even every week.

[giotto]

Is she menopausal? 

On 1/13/2020 at 8:50 PM, UCanCallMeCrazy said:

I know I need to broach the subject of ‘sexless’ with my wife at some point, it is just a matter of finding the right time so that the conversation can be productive.

It will never be productive... she will feel attacked (regardless) and you will create a massive problem. Since you are not going to divorce her (ever), is it worth it?

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far.  They are definitely helpful in thinking about the various ways of approaching this.

Just to touch on everyone's comments or follow-up questions . . .

I think it should be a conversation about 'us' and not about sex.  How we feel about each other and what our relationship means.  If the conversation drifts towards discussing sex, so be it, but I probably should not be the one to take it there.  In my mind it would lead to the defensiveness that some of you have warned about.

I'm not sure how the childhood 'trauma' that may have been experienced by my wife of seeing her parents divorce could be having a carry-over effect to how she views our marriage.  When we were dating, I recall us discussing (perhaps arguing over) my prior (albeit brief) marriage and how that concerned her about me as a suitable marriage partner. (she did not want to follow in her parents footsteps).  I told her that I can't change the past, she knows enough of the details, and she will just have to decide based on how she feels about me.

I was a bit nervous about posting this thread to begin with, because what if she is feeling some pain or concern and is visiting this site and happens to stumble upon this thread?  If that were to happen, I guess we all might know about how she feels.  I might also be in big trouble for airing it out.

My wife is about 12 years past menopause

Just to rest my mind at ease, I did take a look at her mobile device & computer for any vapor trails of extramarital activity . . .  We know each other's passwords to our phones, and computers.  No eMails, Texts, IM, contacts, etc. of concern . . . Nada, nothing.

Why did I let this go on for so long?  -  It has been touched on in the responses so far . . it is a scary conversation to have and I chose to avoid it in the past.  Recently, something inside of me 'snapped' and I feel compelled to do something about it.  I feel that if I don't, we will drift apart emotionally and will have a hollow existence with each other.  We probably have drifted apart to some extent already, but the beginning of the even longest journey starts with the first step.

My intention is to fix/improve the relationship so that it does not go off the rails at some point in the future.

The quote  . . . "sex begins at dinner" is very true.  I know that.  I am also aware that sexless may be a symptom of a problem within our relationship.  Probably it is best to try to identify the problem and the symptom may go away.  What's the old saying?  . . . men achieve intimacy through sex, and women have sex through intimacy ?  I believe I've heard that at some point in my life.

I have asked myself how often I could/would like to have sex in case she asked me point blank . . . perhaps every day I would/could physically have sex, even at my age. . . maybe.  Certainly once a week, but I'd probably be happy with 1-2 times a month, if the discussion became a negotiation with a score-keeper 😉

Anyway, I want to make it about caring and not about hurting.  It is not a 'do this or else' sort of thing. . . it is about how can we have a stronger relationship, because I'm worried that our relationship is growing weaker at this point.

Keep those comments coming, they are all helpful. 👍

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by UCanCallMeCrazy

[schlumpy]

My first thought would not be an ongoing affair. You can never rule it out but I think in your case it is at the back of the line. Unless you have some real circumstantial evidence I think you are wasting your time.

I would start with a low sex drive and see if she will get a thorough medical examine with that thought being passed on to the examining doctor. A medical problem is the easiest thing to eliminate.

Did the drop off in sexual activity happen suddenly or gradually?

Are you two otherwise very affectionate with one another (kissing, hugging, cuddling?) 

 

[DKT3]

22 hours ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

I don't think your wife is having an affair, or ever has.  I think she just has a low sex drive.  You don't even seem to have a high sex drive, just normal.  

It is definitely worth it to try to revive this area of your relationship as you go into retirement.  What you desire does not sound at all unreasonable.  It's not like you're asking for it every day or even every week.

My thoughts also...

What I'm struggling with here, I think he also has a low sex drive I wouldn't call 2 a month normal but that's all he is asking.  

My guess is a man with a normal to high drive would never have handled this situation so gracefully and still be trying at this point. He would have found a substitute be it another woman or porn.

[giotto]

Your wife sounds pretty much like my wife (she is in her mid-fifties)... I think it might be the effect of the menopause, combined with the empty-nest syndrome... we've had that - although my wife has also mental issues and takes ADs and has zero libido... it's possible that the menopause has completely zapped the already low sex drive... the empty nest did the rest. She doesn't care about sex. It's not her priority and she does it occasionally to get you off her back.... yes, crackers to a starving man...

Edited January 17, 2020 by giotto

[Mr. Lucky]

16 hours ago, UCanCallMeCrazy said:

Why did I let this go on for so long?  -  It has been touched on in the responses so far . . it is a scary conversation to have and I chose to avoid it in the past.

Your history of being passive about this has created a very low baseline.  Interesting that you accepted this as a young man, when most are in their sexual prime, yet want to address it in your 60's.  While it's never too late, I'd guess your wife will be confused by your desire to work on this part of the relationship now..

If nothing changes, what are your plans?

Mr. Lucky

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

15 hours ago, schlumpy said:

Did the drop off in sexual activity happen suddenly or gradually?

Are you two otherwise very affectionate with one another (kissing, hugging, cuddling?) 

 

It was noticeable once we were married, but I am not sure how rapid.  It seemed like a steady decline then reached the flat line of a few times a year.

We are not super affectionate, but we kiss/hug every morning, after work, at bedtime.  Hardly any cuddling in bed. 

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Lucky said:

Your history of being passive about this has created a very low baseline.  Interesting that you accepted this as a young man, when most are in their sexual prime, yet want to address it in your 60's.  While it's never too late, I'd guess your wife will be confused by your desire to work on this part of the relationship now..

If nothing changes, what are your plans?

Mr. Lucky

I am not sure what you mean by 'baseline', unless you mean what I have accepted in the past.  'Tolerated' may be a better word though . . .

My wife may be confused or surprised.  I have also considered the possibility that she may be feeling frustrations but have not expressed them either.

If nothing changes . . . at least I tried, but I probably would not do anything drastic.

[Mr. Lucky]

5 hours ago, UCanCallMeCrazy said:

If nothing changes . . . at least I tried, but I probably would not do anything drastic.

So you have a 30-yr history of 'tolerating' a sexless marriage, and failing to change or even consider the issue would have no impact on her life?

Why would she take you seriously?

Mr. Lucky

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

One of the nice things about this forum (and probably ones like it), no matter what I feel about my situation, I realize that there are some others who have it worse than I. . .

 . . . and perhaps I can learn a bit from the experience of others as well as solicit advise.

[2BGoodAgain]

get MARRIAGE COUNSELING.....

sometimes, we ourselves don't know why we do or do not do things....

sometimes, we know, but we don't want to share...

either way, you wouldn't be here unless you really thought this could create problems for you... so i highly advise, you sit down with your wife and recommend marriage counseling.

it can help mediate your view, feelings, thoughts... without getting into a hurt/fight match.

Wish you luck.

quick question: what turns her on? her body, but more importantly, her mind.... ? answer me this. :)

[schlumpy]

I was asking for the timeline of her disinterest because I was hoping to jog your memory. If her interest had dropped suddenly there may have been an event at the time to tie it to. Since you think it was more gradual that leans more in the medical or psychological arena. It seems to me that it was like she made an effort to get you across the finish line (marriage) and then her body returned to a normal (for her) sexual state. 

There are some people that view sex only for procreation. Did she really lose interest after the children were born?

You may have to accept that you will not be able to find an answer. She's happy with the way things are. You has you conditioned to accept it and you are now in a position where to tip over the apply cart may not be in your interest.

I think she has to desire a more productive sex life for your desires to become reality. Without her interest and cooperation you have little chance of success.

[UCanCallMeCrazy]

On 1/17/2020 at 2:48 PM, 2BGoodAgain said:

quick question: what turns her on? her body, but more importantly, her mind.... ? answer me this.

Probably her mind . . . She is more the academic type, very studious.  Top of her class in HS, honor roll in college, but still managed to have an active social life.

She says she "feels old" now and is concerned about gaining a few pounds, yet she still is about the thinnest person of our family and friends or even in general public.

Despite the cautions posted in this thread, I feel compelled to discuss my concerns and needs.  The responses have been good for me in terms of finding a good approach and setting my expectations. (thank you)

[2BGoodAgain]

actually, what i meant was... and this isn't something you have to answer me.. lol. i meant, ask yourself...

what physically attracts her? what mentally attracts her?