Wife regretting not having kids

[amaysngrace]

Kids can travel too.  They’re called family vacations.

[clia]

I think anyone can decide not to have children for any reason they want.  I don't get all of the people in this thread trying to argue that Woggle's wife's reason is not serious or good enough.  Sheesh.  Some people just don't want kids, for whatever reason.   

I think that with a lot of things in life there is a tendency, as we get older, to wonder "what if" or to question if you made the right decision in the past.  For something as big as having children, it seems very natural to wonder if you made the right choice.  Maybe some people experience regret over not having done it, but I think you can just as easily come to the conclusion that you made the right choice and are happy with your life how it is.  

[Woggle]

4 hours ago, clia said:

I think anyone can decide not to have children for any reason they want.  I don't get all of the people in this thread trying to argue that Woggle's wife's reason is not serious or good enough.  Sheesh.  Some people just don't want kids, for whatever reason.   

I think that with a lot of things in life there is a tendency, as we get older, to wonder "what if" or to question if you made the right decision in the past.  For something as big as having children, it seems very natural to wonder if you made the right choice.  Maybe some people experience regret over not having done it, but I think you can just as easily come to the conclusion that you made the right choice and are happy with your life how it is.  

I fully agree. The thing is that my wife is very maternal and great with kids. They love her but she knows enough about herself to realize that while she loves the good parts she is not equipped for full time motherhood and I am not equipped for full time fatherhood either. You have two people who are not and most likely never will be ready for full time parenthood so it is smart to not reproduce.

[jspice]

On 1/24/2020 at 12:18 PM, thefooloftheyear said:

..

But yeah...tell me again about the risks and suffering....

Funny part about that is one of the nurses on staff when my daughter was born was banging on and on about how women make such a big  fuss about childbirth and what a big deal they make it out to be,,,,she said both her children were born in the house with no drugs and a midwife, she worked up until the day before delivery and went to work shortly after...She was Asian, I am guessing Korean but I dunno...

TFY

Are you for real?? One “maybe Korean nurse” said childbirth is no big deal. Asian women go through a period of confinement up to 40 days after giving birth. They stay in bed, have nurses to take care of their newborns and their husbands shuttle between work and whatever centre they’re recovering in. 
 

what Western woman who has had a natural birth has the luxury of staying in bed for a month after childbirth?? 

[BettyDraper]

16 hours ago, jspice said:

Are you for real?? One “maybe Korean nurse” said childbirth is no big deal. Asian women go through a period of confinement up to 40 days after giving birth. They stay in bed, have nurses to take care of their newborns and their husbands shuttle between work and whatever centre they’re recovering in. 
 

what Western woman who has had a natural birth has the luxury of staying in bed for a month after childbirth?? 

jspice, you can answer TFOTY if you want to. I don't think it is worth your time because he struggles with logical fallacies and thinks he's an expert on what it is to be a woman despite being male. How a man can comment on the difficulty of childbirth is beyond me. Pay no attention to his naive and ridiculous comments. 

[preraph]

I was having way too much fun to want to stop all that and have a child, and I'm 67 and I have no regrets about it either. In fact I count my lucky stars. Having kids is for people who really really want to have kids. I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's. 

[BettyDraper]

1 hour ago, preraph said:

I was having way too much fun to want to stop all that and have a child, and I'm 67 and I have no regrets about it either. In fact I count my lucky stars. Having kids is for people who really really want to have kids. I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's. 

I can relate to this. 

Both times that I have seriously considered motherhood, I realized that I greatly enjoyed my life and my marriage the way it was. 

[thefooloftheyear]

3 hours ago, BettyDraper said:

jspice, you can answer TFOTY if you want to. I don't think it is worth your time because he struggles with logical fallacies and thinks he's an expert on what it is to be a woman despite being male. How a man can comment on the difficulty of childbirth is beyond me. Pay no attention to his naive and ridiculous comments. 

I didn't comment specifically on the difficulty of childbirth...if I did, please cite it..

Maybe you can tell everyone what its like....oops....that's right,,,,,you aren't a mother and have no idea what its like....

Its ok....quit trying to tell yourself that parenthood/motherhood sucks just because you didn't do it....just accept it ..millions of other woman do...

TF Y

Edited February 6, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[Ellener]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:38 PM, DKT3 said:

Their are social and cultural factors that have forced or enticed people to defer children.  However, even when the choice is made that drive still exists.  Which is evident in this topic. 

We could have 1000 women come on this thread and say they never wanted children and I wouldn't believe one of them. Rather,  they suppressed their desire for other interests.  That is social drives. In many ways convincing oneself that they never wanted children eases the regret of not having children.  Many of these women then become very vocal about their choices and look for ways to support that decision as a way to combat the judgement and confusion of those who dont understand the choice.

Saying that procreation isnt biological goes against everything science and religion is, no matter which you believe.  Fact is, living beings have one proven purpose to exist. Everything outside of that is driven by social and cultural norms and expectations 

I had just one son, fruit of a disastrous marriage, goodness I've apologised many times to him for that. He says mum it's ok!

I got pregnant very early in my marriage, miscarried early on. Think that happened a few more times, but never confirmed it. We remarried later when I was pregnant with my son. Healthy baby, I did have to insist on a C-section when the birth went wrong. Pregnant again when my son was about 18 months, second trimester miscarriage which put me in the hospital and lead to a campaign for the acknowledgment of pregnancy loss in the UK. At which point I decided I couldn't do this pregnancy stuff any more, it's not fair to me or anyone around me. 

No regrets about that, it was a practical and rational decision for me. I was meeting women with three or four healthy children who were determined to carry another baby despite multiple miscarriages or stillbirths. Meanwhile the country was overflowing with children awaiting fostering or adoption placements.

@DKT3 I don't know your story or how many children you have but no, we humans don't have 'one proven purpose to exist' if that's to procreate. We maybe have a proven purpose to exist to further development of humanity and evolution, but even so, people in the free world have many ways to express that and fulfill themselves and nurture others.

I always planned to foster or adopt later in life, I don't want to do that now either. I support other people's projects with cash or fundraising or volunteering.

 

[Woggle]

I do wonder if not having kids is a reason why we have such a great marriage. We are more in love now than we were when we first married.

[Ellener]

3 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I do wonder if not having kids is a reason why we have such a great marriage. We are more in love now than we were when we first married.

It's a big test and trial that's for sure, as much as it bonds.

Glad you two are happy 🥰

[DKT3]

@Ellener

We have one purpose.  If one believes in creation 

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

If one believes in evolution then the basis of evolution is reproduction without reproducing there can be no evolution. 

Just because someone has the ability to forgo thier purpose doesn't change that purpose.  Just because that purpose is foregone doesn't mean it's not the purpose.  

 

[YOLO66]

On 1/14/2020 at 8:35 AM, Woggle said:

Is this just her expressing the what ifs that a lot of people have about any path in life?

I realise you must be part of the Purple Circle, but for those of us who aren't, you need to provide context.
Specifically, how old are you and your wife?

But even without that info, let me give you the basics.  Women as a general rule do not bring up such topics just for lols.  One way or another, it is highly likely that there is something serious behind this.
So, two possibilities.

If she is still of child-bearing age, she wants to discuss it.  She knows you don't and hence why she is hesitant to bring it up and already making the arguments against.

If she is too old, then she has regrets, and she is looking for comfort and reassurance.
(And you can't really "fix" this one, she just wants support and "understanding".)

[BettyDraper]

30 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

@Ellener

We have one purpose.  If one believes in creation 

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

If one believes in evolution then the basis of evolution is reproduction without reproducing there can be no evolution. 

Just because someone has the ability to forgo thier purpose doesn't change that purpose.  Just because that purpose is foregone doesn't mean it's not the purpose.  

 

That Bible passage is meaningless for those who are not Christian. It was also written in the context of a world without more than two humans. 

On the most basic biological level, humans are meant to reproduce so I agree with you to some extent. However, most humans operate on more complex levels than our biological imperative. 

 

[BettyDraper]

15 minutes ago, YOLO66 said:

I realise you must be part of the Purple Circle, but for those of us who aren't, you need to provide context.
Specifically, how old are you and your wife?

But even without that info, let me give you the basics.  Women as a general rule do not bring up such topics just for lols.  One way or another, it is highly likely that there is something serious behind this.
So, two possibilities.

If she is still of child-bearing age, she wants to discuss it.  She knows you don't and hence why she is hesitant to bring it up and already making the arguments against.

If she is too old, then she has regrets, and she is looking for comfort and reassurance.
(And you can't really "fix" this one, she just wants support and "understanding".)

I think that spouses should be prepared to discuss any topic regardless of how difficult and uncomfortable it is. 

[YOLO66]

49 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I do wonder if not having kids is a reason why we have such a great marriage. We are more in love now than we were when we first married.

This is concerning.

Love is supposed to change, to grow, and mature.
When somebody in your situation feels they are "more in love now", it generally means one of a few things:

1. You are two highly focused and centred individuals, who have nevertherless   managed to find each other, fit together exceptionally well, and are highly satisfied pursuing joint goals.
2. Similar to above, but you effectively have a symbiotic relationship, where the selves have been subsumed into a centred couple.
3. What you think is love, is really just a strengthening bond of mutual dependency.  OR
4. You're legitimately clueless or lying to yourself.

[BettyDraper]

1 hour ago, Woggle said:

I do wonder if not having kids is a reason why we have such a great marriage. We are more in love now than we were when we first married.

My husband and I have had the same experience. 

I won’t say that we are happier purely because we are childfree but we definitely have more time for romance because we’re not raising kids. 

[YOLO66]

2 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

I think that spouses should be prepared to discuss any topic regardless of how difficult and uncomfortable it is. 

That really is the bottom line for the OP.

Whether she is past child-bearing age or not, she wants to discuss it, whatever it is.

[BettyDraper]

Just now, YOLO66 said:

This is concerning.

Love is supposed to change, to grow, and mature.
When somebody in your situation feels they are "more in love now", it generally means one of a few things:

1. You are two highly focused and centred individuals, who have nevertherless   managed to find each other, fit together exceptionally well, and are highly satisfied pursuing joint goals.
2. Similar to above, but you effectively have a symbiotic relationship, where the selves have been subsumed into a centred couple.
3. What you think is love, is really just a strengthening bond of mutual dependency.  OR
4. You're legitimately clueless or lying to yourself.

Why can’t a love that increases be a result of maturation and growth? 

A childfree couple can still love cherish each other. Interdependent couples are healthy.

I hope that you’re not implying that childfree couples are flawed in the way that they relate to each other  just because they don’t have children. 

[DKT3]

21 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

That Bible passage is meaningless for those who are not Christian. It was also written in the context of a world without more than two humans. 

On the most basic biological level, humans are meant to reproduce so I agree with you to some extent. However, most humans operate on more complex levels than our biological imperative. 

 

Complexities or not it doesn't change.  

A version of that is throughout the bible...and as I stated for those who believe is is very meaningful.  But like SOME of those women who choose to not have children only thier options and views matter. Facts dont matter if it doesn't work for thier narrative. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by DKT3

[YOLO66]

Also need to remember the old adage.  Women change, men don't.

My 2nd wife had a career and didn't want kids.  I had kids and didn't want a 2nd batch, so it was a match made in heaven.
Until it wasn't.

The old biological clock went off like a fire-alarm.

I love my kids, and would do literally anything for them.  Which in part is why I didn't want them ever to feel they had been replaced or usurped.
I'll also be honest and say I didn't want the burden.  It was hard enough juggling access and holidays, and being there for t-ball games and music recitals, without trying to balance a 2nd family.   And yes, with so much of my money going to child-support, losing her income and trying to support a new family would have been a struggle. 

[BettyDraper]

14 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Complexities or not it doesn't change.  

A version of that is throughout the bible...and as I stated for those who believe is is very meaningful.  But like SOME of those women who choose to not have children only thier options and views matter. Facts dont matter if it doesn't work for thier narrative. 

Religious beliefs are not facts. 

Women to choose not to have children needn't be mindful of the views of others on this subject. This is a choice that we have every right to make. 

If you want to put a Christian spin on this, you might consider remembering that humans have free will. 😉

 

[YOLO66]

15 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

A childfree couple can still love cherish each other. Interdependent couples are healthy.

I hope that you’re not implying that childfree couples are flawed in the way that they relate to each other  just because they don’t have children. 

You're misstating the issue at hand and deliberately misstating what I said.

For starters, the term "childfree" is both puerile and pejorative.  You're simply reasserting your own view that children are a burden.
It's like those poor soul who become convinced that one of their limbs is a burden and so seeks to have it needlessly amputated.  Obviously if your entire point of view is predicated on your belief that children are a burden, then naturally choosing not to have them makes sense.

You'll also lumping two disparate groups together.  There is a fundamental difference between couple who can't have children, and those such as the OP who have deliberately chosen not to.

Nowhere did I say anything to suggest either group were "flawed."
The first two possibilities I listed were of couples who would be immensely happy together.

Your reference to "Independent Couples" is  a non-sequitur.  Couples are, by definition, not independent.

[YOLO66]

As far as the "procreation" argument goes, you're missing the point.

Woman are biologically programmed to procreate.  Whether that is an ordinance from God, or the result of evolution, it is what it is.
That the drive may be less, or indeed absent in some women, doesn't change the overall fact.

Similarly, the fact that the majority of women choose to manage that drive, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And that is very much the point for the OP.  His wife may very well have decided that she doesn't want children, and she may in fact continue to be of that same mind.
But that doesn't mean she doesn't have the biological drive. not that it might not intensify at some point.

[BettyDraper]

Just now, YOLO66 said:

You're misstating the issue at hand and deliberately misstating what I said.

For starters, the term "childfree" is both puerile and pejorative.  You're simply reasserting your own view that children are a burden.
It's like those poor soul who become convinced that one of their limbs is a burden and so seeks to have it needlessly amputated.  Obviously if your entire point of view is predicated on your belief that children are a burden, then naturally choosing not to have them makes sense.

You'll also lumping two disparate groups together.  There is a fundamental difference between couple who can't have children, and those such as the OP who have deliberately chosen not to.

Nowhere did I say anything to suggest either group were "flawed."
The first two possibilities I listed were of couples who would be immensely happy together.

Your reference to "Independent Couples" is  a non-sequitur.  Couples are, by definition, not independent.

I said "interdependent." Please go back and read properly before ranting nonsensically. You will look less foolish when you respond rather than reacting like a mercurial adolescent. 

"ChildLESS" means that one wants children but does not have them for any number of reasons. "ChildFREE" means actively choosing not to have children.

You might learn more if you asked questions rather than making outlandish assumptions. 

Whether you like it or not, some people are intelligent and mature enough to understand that children are not all joy and fulfillment. It takes wisdom to realize that one is not suited for parenthood. I hope that you will become more confident in your decision to have children. When that occurs, you will no longer be triggered by those who are happy without children. 

The need to pathologize childfreedom is a very obvious indication that you are insecure about being a parent. Childfree couples remind you of all that you have given up to raise kids.