My guy and I had a few drinks before dinner last night and he had too much and was being a jerk

[Happy Lemming]

3 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

 When he deleted his dating profile, he asked me to look at his inbox before he did. He clicked this one woman's profile and goes, "I didn't get to meet her." I was like "WTF? If it's such a loss, then go meet her (, dumbass)." I honestly wanted to dump him right then. That weird, stupid moment haunted me for days.

Yes... the "inbox" incident was really stupid.  But I've done stupid things and my girlfriend has forgiven me. I think it was his attempt at trying to prove how special you were to him & that he was "forsaking all others"?? Maybe??

As far as drinking, my first date with my girlfriend I invited her out for drinks.  I later found out that her ex-husband was a horrible alcoholic.  So after that no more "going out for drinks" and I would order "diet coke" when we went out to dinner.  I didn't have to, but I didn't want to trigger any memories or issues that might remind her of the ex-husband.

I also won't drink at my home when she is here.  Again, she never asked me not to, but as a courtesy I can refrain from drinking. 

Perhaps, if you do talk to this guy again, maybe deleting alcohol from your dates might be a good idea??

If your guy really wanted to play the field, he would not have made the "fiancee'" comment.  I think you are both angry, upset and raw, but I really don't think he wants to "enjoy his on-line dating catalog".

[lana-banana]

As happy as I was to read about your new relationship, it sounded like things were going way too fast---I love you's and essentially living together within the space of two months? There's no one timeline for everybody, but this just seemed like a disaster waiting to happen. When someone is that intense that quickly, something is wrong. Sometimes i think when we talk about "love bombing" we focus too much on the "love" part. The important thing about love bombing is that it's explosive.

I don't know whether this guy wants to play the field or not, but it seems like his ego is hurting more than his heart. He certainly wasn't banking on you having too much dignity to put up with his nonsense, and now he wants you back as a validation that he "deserves" you or isn't a bad person. No thanks. 

He can't apologize, can't take ownership, and is a mean drunk: these traits are totally incompatible with a good life partner. And it's not like he made a clumsy joke; you said it hurt your soul. If that isn't automatically disqualifying, what is? Being single and cooking dinner in your awesome kitchen is a million times better than going back to a relationship where you'll just be waiting for the next explosion.

[jah526]

You know, Ruby, I think it is just a thing that happens with men. When I was with the MM his ego was so puffed up he was literally chasing other women, like running after them down the hallway. I think your guy has a swollen ego right now from being with you. I think it might also be a side effect from too much too soon. Maybe just pull back a bit and give it time for the swelling to go down. Then see where you are. If he really is a player, he'll be gone before you know it.

[Ruby Slippers]

10 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

But I've done stupid things and my girlfriend has forgiven me.

Perhaps, if you do talk to this guy again, maybe deleting alcohol from your dates might be a good idea??

Can I ask what's the stupidest/most upsetting thing you've done?

I don't need alcohol to have fun, but it feels off to be with a guy I can't enjoy a few drinks with. If he's not even that in control of himself, that just doesn't bode well.

5 hours ago, lana-banana said:

it sounded like things were going way too fast

it seems like his ego is hurting more than his heart

He can't apologize, can't take ownership, and is a mean drunk: these traits are totally incompatible with a good life partner. 

I'm learning that this diving right into relationships is a bad habit of mine. Nothing will be lost by taking it slow, and a lot of drama could be avoided.

I agree that his ego is hurting more than his heart. He's fixated on all these women out there, and he was fixated on the ego stroke it gave him to have me at his side, because he has unresolved insecurities within himself. 

I agree that his emotional and conflict resolution limitations are a big strike against him. 

2 hours ago, jah526 said:

Maybe just pull back a bit and give it time for the swelling to go down. Then see where you are. If he really is a player, he'll be gone before you know it.

He's not a player in the traditional sense. He's very much a relationship/marriage kind of guy. He thrives in routine, responsibility, structure. But due to some insecurity that was not obvious upfront, he definitely seems to be needy for validation from women, which I'm sensing is a big problem. Something tells me he'll have to work through that before he's ready to give his heart to anybody.

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, major_merrick said:

Softer, sweeter, cuter...

That's why I like girls... 😎

[Happy Lemming]

22 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Can I ask what's the stupidest/most upsetting thing you've done?

 

Yes... (happened about 5 years ago) My girlfriend was being evicted from this apartment she could no longer afford.  Her finances got thrown into a tailspin (long story). We drove around and found her a smaller (more affordable) unit.  I had to move her and quickly before the eviction.

So about a week before the move, I dropped off about 30-35 boxes, tape and markers.  I told her to pack up everything, except the heavy stuff (she has a bad back).

When I arrived the day of the move (with my truck, hand truck and moving dollies) nothing was packed.  She just couldn't do it and had some sort of mental breakdown about the move.  I screamed and hollered at her, which made matters worse.  She cried horribly.  I thought she was just being lazy, I didn't realize it was more of a mental breakdown/depression/anxiety/panic attack type of thing regarding the move.

I ended up packing, then moving everything.  She really didn't have that much stuff.  I over-reacted.  I never realized that "moving" could cause a visceral fear to the point of in-action, but in her, it does.

She forgave me for being an a***ole and making her cry.

Oddly, that apartment has become very costly and I'll be moving her again towards the end of 2020.  I'm already collecting boxes, bubble wrap, etc. for the move.  I already know that I'll be doing the packing and moving of her belongings.  She can take a klonopin and sit in the corner while I work.

Oh... and that is not the only stupid thing I have done, but I think it was the worst/most upsetting.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Happy Lemming

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, Happy Lemming said:

I screamed and hollered at her, which made matters worse. 

From the time when you screamed at her, how long did it take you to apologize and move her stuff for her?

[Happy Lemming]

Just now, Ruby Slippers said:

From the time when you screamed at her, how long did it take you to apologize and move her stuff for her?

I didn't really have time to sulk and not move her stuff to the new unit, the eviction was a couple of days away.  So I had to pack and move her stuff (immediately) or it would have been forcibly removed by the apartment complex.  Some items had sentimental value, her (deceased) father had made her some items and paintings.  Those were irreplaceable.

After the move was complete (it took about two days), she sat me down and explained everything to me.  At that point, I apologized...  But now I know and I'm prepared for the next move.  I'm not going to let time be a factor in the next move, I have plenty of time to prepare, and get all of my equipment ready.  I might rent a trailer for this move to aid in rolling things out of one unit and into the next.

[lana-banana]

It sounds like you're already in the process of rationalizing his behavior and preparing yourself to take him back---or at least giving the idea serious consideration. 

None of us are going to tell you what to do. Hell, we know you and how strong you are; none of us would even dare. I just hope that you reread the beginning of this thread and think about what you felt and why. Good luck 💖

[Happy Lemming]

33 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I don't need alcohol to have fun, but it feels off to be with a guy I can't enjoy a few drinks with.

 

OK... point taken, but none of us are perfect and we don't always get "everything" we want.

My advice is tell him you want to "think" over the two weeks that he is traveling for work.  Tell him you will contact him when he returns, and at that point you guys can talk.

Hopefully, by then you will have had time to let the anger subside and look at the overall picture.  Perhaps make some "bullet points" about what made you upset and what buttons to NEVER push again.

For me, I will NEVER EVER go off at my girlfriend for not getting ready for a move.  I'll leave enough time and energy to do it all myself.

[Ruby Slippers]

18 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

It sounds like you're already in the process of rationalizing his behavior and preparing yourself to take him back---or at least giving the idea serious consideration. 

None of us are going to tell you what to do. Hell, we know you and how strong you are; none of us would even dare. I just hope that you reread the beginning of this thread and think about what you felt and why. Good luck 💖

I wonder what gives you that impression. I just told my co-friender what happened, and we agreed this would be next to impossible to bounce back from. I told her I don't really see him getting past his own ego to humble himself and truly apologize, not with me or any woman. That means I doubt that he even has the capacity to truly love a woman. That will never cut it with me.

I haven't heard from him since Sunday night, and with every passing hour, the loving feelings I had for him deteriorate further. Because I strive to be a gracious person, I'll continue to treat him with as much kindness and respect as I can. But with his inaction, my romantic feelings are fading fast.

[Ruby Slippers]

35 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

After the move was complete (it took about two days), she sat me down and explained everything to me.  At that point, I apologized...  

This sounds reasonable to me. You had to get through the work, and then you immediately addressed the emotional aspect. This guy has let almost 4 days pass without doing anything more than texting an apology. He saw me 3 times in person and failed to address it properly. He tried to see me in person after those 3 times, but he was so ungracious about it that I had to stay in self-protection mode and refuse it. His effort has been minimal and completely insufficient.

The only reason I haven't blocked him is that my new cell phone was delivered to his place and I have to pick it up soon. I'm dreading that, know I need to get it done so I can just move on, but don't want to see him.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[The Outlaw]

Then allow his actions (or lack thereof) speak for him. As much feeling as you have for him, the guy totally isn't worth it. Anyone that can just throw away something with the potential to be out of this world isn't even worth a dime a dozen. And even as a guy, I've favored thinking with my head over my heart. That's always gotten me into more trouble than it's worth. I know it's going to be a tough road ahead, but hang in there. My late mother always said that god never closes one door without opening up another. 

[mark clemson]

4 minutes ago, The Outlaw said:

 Anyone that can just throw away something with the potential to be out of this world isn't even worth a dime a dozen.

(For the record, I'm not "pushing" for reconciliation or anything, that's RS's call, but... ) actually he did attempt to apologize/reconcile mulitple times. Just not in what RS felt was an effective way. Now he may think he is "giving her space".

Edited January 14, 2020 by mark clemson

[Ruby Slippers]

Thanks. The silver lining in all this is I know I'll be fine.

My only regret is that I gave him too much leeway and didn't heed some warning signs sooner. I've definitely learned some very important lessons. As they say, if you lose, don't lose the lesson.

[NuevoYorko]

On 1/12/2020 at 7:54 PM, Ruby Slippers said:

Yes, I agree. He asked this evening if he could come over. The arrogance. 

 

I might have a different take on things than most of the others here ... but why is that arrogant?  This a man with whom you've been discussing marriage, merging of finances, even how to handle his children's inheritances with you in the picture.  You moved most of your things to his place and you were part of his family during the holidays.  

From my perspective, a relationship of this level is at a place where "can I come over" to resolve a conflict would not be out of line.  

It's surprising that you have not seen this side of him before, considering how far you've already gone in this relationship.  I don't fault you if it's a deal breaker, but I do think it's appropriate for him to want to talk to you and for you to grant him this.  An "exit interview" so to speak.

This may be an unwelcome observation, but here goes:  I get the impression that you are  about what you are feeling when you meet a new man - mainly around how much they flatter you and how people on the outside view you as a couple when you are in public - and much less about who the man is and long term compatibility potential.  Maybe this is something to look at.

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, mark clemson said:

(For the record, I'm not "pushing" for reconciliation or anything, that's RS's call, but... ) actually he did attempt to apologize/reconcile mulitple times. Just not in what RS felt was an effective way. Now he may think he is "giving her space".

You're right that he tried in his own limited, ineffective way.

But this guy is not one to "give space." The night I left he called me probably a dozen times. I didn't answer because I wasn't willing to be further insulted and offended by him in his drunken state. Our relationship dynamic is firmly established that he takes the traditional masculine role and initiates all significant relationship actions, and I take the traditional feminine role and am receptive. We've discussed this, both agree it makes sense for so many reasons, and feel we're following our true nature in this dynamic. 

His inaction is making it very clear how little he really cares. Which, ironically, makes it that much easier for me to let it all go.

[The Outlaw]

2 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

(For the record, I'm not "pushing" for reconciliation or anything, that's RS's call, but... ) actually he did attempt to apologize/reconcile mulitple times. Just not in what RS felt was an effective way. Now he may think he is "giving her space".

True, but somethings aren't easily forgotten. It's never easy, but I suspect that she'll be just fine. 

[Happy Lemming]

10 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

This sounds reasonable to me. You had to get through the work, and then you immediately addressed the emotional aspect.

 

Correct... time was not on our side.  In addition to all the other issues, it started raining.  It rarely rains in the desert, but luck was not on our side.  An unexpected rain storm came out of no where and soaked us. Some things got wet, others I wrapped in tarps.  Nothing was ruined, but we did have to dry out a few chairs with hair dryers.

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, NuevoYorko said:

I might have a different take on things than most of the others here ... but why is that arrogant?  

This may be an unwelcome observation, but here goes:  I get the impression that you are  about what you are feeling when you meet a new man - mainly around how much they flatter you and how people on the outside view you as a couple when you are in public - and much less about who the man is and long term compatibility potential.  Maybe this is something to look at.

It's arrogant because he waited till pretty late on Sunday night to ask if he could come over. What's going to happen later in the evening? Oh, conveniently, it's bedtime. He very easily could have texted or called the next morning and politely asked to meet that evening.

I appreciate your candor. I'm definitely about how we're both feeling. And yes, I'm all about the mutual adoration society. I like to have stars in my eyes for him, and for him to have stars in his eyes for me. Without that, I feel like what's the point? If you don't have strong admiration for your partner, there's no basis for romance. He agreed with me on that. Anyone who wants real love does.

As for how people view us in public, I don't give a damn. I was just telling my co-friender how our older, wise lady coworker said it was troubling that he commented on how much attention he gets with me as his date - why does he care what other women think? I barely even notice other people when we're together, certainly not other men. I'm enjoying our happy aura together, and the people in the background are pretty much inconsequential. I think it's nice when people say we're a cute couple, but that's just sweet.

[Ruby Slippers]

Finally, 5 days after the incident, he texted yesterday morning and politely asked to meet for coffee - what I had suggested before. I was already planning to pick up my cell phone that was delivered to his place today, so I agreed to meet him after work.

The few people I've discussed this with have had strong reactions, some of them worrying I'm going to take him back, some of them worrying I'm not, a few being supportive whatever happens. I guess they're being protective, which is sweet. 

Yesterday I made a list of what I've learned from this, as an exercise for myself. The big lesson is that because of my idealism, I gave him things before he had earned them, assuming he was noble and responsible. 

What I’ve learned is to give only to those who truly earn it. I should have learned this a long time ago, but better late than never. In the big picture it’s made me stronger and I’m thankful for it.

My only plan is to meet him, listen to what he has to say, and get my phone. I'm pretty sure this brief meeting will tell me anything I don't already know. I feel at peace with any outcome.

[fishlips]

Oh sorry to hear this, Ruby. From your posts, you sounded really happy. But if someone is an a**h***, better to find out sooner rather than later.

Good for you for standing up for yourself.

[Artdeco]

Keep us posted. And good luck! I still don’t quite understand what it was exactly that was so offensive to you, other than him making a few unbecoming remarks (on other women?) while drunk. Not an excuse, by any means, but I could deal with that if it’s a one time offense - if him being an a**h*** when he drinks is a constant thing then yes.....bad! And maybe that’s why he got divorced. You never know.......

[Ruby Slippers]

Thanks, Artdeco. I don't want to get into the whole thing, but I'll give you a couple of samples.

At the end of the night, through a drunken haze, he kept staring lustfully at this woman sitting across from us. Once he figured out it was bothering me, he starts telling me I'm just jealous because she has great breasts - but don't worry, my breasts are nicer than hers 🙄 I couldn't even see her breasts from where I was sitting. Idiot.

(He reacted the same way when I reacted to a big picture of him and his ex-wife on their wedding day that was still out in his house when I visited over Christmas. He said I was jealous because she was young and beautiful, but don't worry, she's not beautiful anymore and I'm much better-looking than her 🙄🙄🙄 I said, "I don't give a damn what she looks like. I'm upset because you were thoughtless and rude enough to leave this photo right here, knowing I'd be coming here." And that's exactly true. His excuse was it was a nice frame and he'd been meaning to switch it out with a photo of his son.)

Then, in the restaurant, after the whole night of BS, he grabbed my hands and started kissing them. At that point I wouldn't even look him in the eye anymore. As I got up to leave, he started going on about, "You get a beautiful woman with great breasts and then you start worrying all the time about losing her."

And I'm just thinking, "Please shut the F up already, you raving idiot." It really says a lot for my ability to remain calm through intense feelings that I managed not to say a word to him till we got home and I told him I was leaving. 

You know what he said then, still in a drunken stupor? "Don't be stupid. Come to bed." Nail, meet coffin.

Two days later, when he finally bothered to ask exactly what he did and I told him all the gory details, he said he hardly remembered any of it, it was completely stupid and beneath him, then the lengthy text apologies.

He texted this morning, "Hello baby. Looking forward to seeing you" with hearts. I wanted to reply, "I'm not your baby anymore." I just confirmed the time. I'm kind of dreading it, mostly want to get my phone and get it over with.

[elaine567]

Some men seem to think that showing her he could have anyone he wants and making her jealous over other "hotter" women and making her feel "less than" is somehow a turn on and shows her how much of a man he is...
It may work with the desperate, but for any woman with a degree of self esteem it is a complete turn OFF and often a dealbreaker.