My guy and I had a few drinks before dinner last night and he had too much and was being a jerk

[Ruby Slippers]

6 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Yeah some serious issues there comparing sizes of everything and all - who really cares?

The song you linked was cute at least. What was that Indian girl even doing in there? Anyhow, it occurred to me it could be a good alternative name for LS. 😄

As for comparisons, that's the ego. Deep down, he was unsure that he was enough, needed reassurance that he was, but went about asking for it in a twisted way.

The Indian girl represents the emotional undercurrents, I think. On "Relations***" as LS's alternative name, TOTALLY 😂

Edited January 17, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[elaine567]

What was "cute" about the song?
It was a pretty depressing and cynical take on relationships... or "relations***s" 

Edited January 17, 2020 by elaine567

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

What was "cute" about the song?
It was a pretty depressing take on relationships... or "relations***s" 

It's satire: the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices

I think it's hilarious and it gave me a much-needed laugh, but people respond differently to different kinds of comedy  

Edited January 17, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[mark clemson]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

What was "cute" about the song?
It was a pretty depressing and cynical take on relationships... or "relations***s" 

Well, Elaine, *I* thought it was cute as it makes light of the normal issues in a relationship like losing the spark a bit and "driving each other crazy".  If you don't see what's funny about it, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

It's satire: the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices

I am well aware of what satire is. I live in the UK we love satire, and I agree satire can be hilarious, but I didn't really think that video was "cute" or indeed funny sorry.

[Happy Lemming]

So Ruby, what's next for you??

Are you going to enjoy a peaceful weekend of movies?? Maybe get some ice cream?? Play with your new phone??

Tell us about your weekend plans...

[Ruby Slippers]

Tonight I'm going with a colleague who recently befriended me to dinner and an art opening. She's a gorgeous, vivacious woman, very interesting and sophisticated, single with no kids like me, goes on dates with a variety of fascinating man friends, exactly the company I'd love tonight!

I'll unpack all my stuff and settle back into my house. Though I've been very spare with decorating since I bought the house a year ago, to save more money, it's time to invest a little in glamming it up - think touches of velvet, silk, and feather boas

I'm off Monday for MLK Day, so I'll spend a night at my parents' house an hour away. I love cooking and hanging out with my mom, and they're both so happy when I visit. I'm thinking dinner and movies. I wanna show them "Wonder Woman" and maybe "Office Space." Badass lady vibes and laughs - can't go wrong with that. 

[Artdeco]

It’s generally frustrating when close ones mess up and don’t apologize properly. A heartfelt, remorseful apology can do wonders, and this “get over it already” attitude can ruin everything for good. 

 

At the same time, nobody likes to be embarrassed and chastised. For him it was probably very uncomfortable to even mention it.....but his very brief “only one hour of a certain behavior ruined an otherwise good relationship“ speech doesn’t sound right for sure. Sounds like “boohoo I’m the victim, and you’re mean”. I’m sure he wanted move past this quickly, without many words and explanations. And that usually doesn’t help the relationship. 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

Sorry, Rubes!

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to move on given that he was pretty much unarguably the offending party. 

[The Outlaw]

Sometimes a breakup can be a blessing in disguise no matter our feelings on the matter. History aside, you dodged a bullet. Judging by his behavior before and after, he didn't appreciate what he had and you know what they say----You don't know what you've got until it's gone. There are still plenty of decent guys in the world, and I have no doubt that you will find an even better one. 

[Ruby Slippers]

Thank you, everybody. You all have been so lovely and your support during a very trying time has really meant the world to me. My friends have been wonderful, too, but there's something very special about getting all this amazing kindness from "strangers". I believe the good energy you give in situations like these comes back to you tenfold, and that's my wish for all of you 🥰

[Ruby Slippers]

He just emailed me a very polite message, said he's sorry he keeps bothering me, but: "If there is anything that I can do to get you back please let me know."

I'm going to send him a friendly reply and my post-game analysis.

[Miss Spider]

Glad to hear it. He knew it was better to put his ego aside than to lose you. So you guys are speaking again? Hopefully the problems you had since the beginning don’t resurface later.  Maybe he will make changes. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Woggle]

If he acts like this when he is still in the getting to know you stage imagine what will happen when his true colors came out. If you do decide to give him another chance tell him in no uncertain terms he doesn't get a third one. I have been drunk and I don't act like that so it is not an excuse. All I do is drunk karaoke which is more funny than anything.

[Ruby Slippers]

We've emailed back and forth a few times today. He replied to everything I wrote in the post-game analysis on mistakes I think both he and I made, commented on where and how he went wrong, apologized sincerely. 

He's so logical. He said he doesn't see any issues he can't overcome, even summarized all the issues I outlined to one main theme that he can correct, said there's nothing that justifies walking away from what he calls "the best two months I've ever had in my life."

In response to his question about whether there's anything he can do to get me back, I said things would have to be very different and we'd have to start over at the beginning with a new understanding.

He asked if he can take me out on a date at my earliest availability. I'm going to my parents' tomorrow, so told him we can meet for a coffee on Monday. My bar is sky high now and I won't lower it again. I predict he's going to respond very well to this.

I went out with my very smart, cool friend last night, and she said it sounds like in the aftermath of the fight he was scared and didn't know what to do. But he seems to be figuring it out now. Oh, he just sent me a text after I told him I unblocked him... sappy love song

[Ruby Slippers]

3 minutes ago, Woggle said:

If he acts like this when he is still in the getting to know you stage imagine what will happen when his true colors came out. If you do decide to give him another chance tell him in no uncertain terms he doesn't get a third one. I have been drunk and I don't act like that so it is not an excuse. All I do is drunk karaoke which is more funny than anything.

I hear you. I don't know about no more chances, but I'm definitely making it crystal clear that my bar has gone way up and it'll be up to him to keep clearing it every single day. We all mess up, sometimes terribly, as @Happy Lemming astutely pointed out. Someone on this board sent me a beautiful story he wrote, the lesson of which is that love isn't perfect, the love between a man and a woman can get messy and very difficult, but if you're really in love, you work through it. You might need stretches of time apart in silence when things go really bad, but if it's real love, you don't give up.

I'd like to see your drunk karaoke

[Angelflower]

Sounds like you just opened the door for a second chance. From what I have read I think his apology is sincere. How many do you need? All the post you posted in the other thread about your sex life... well from that alone maybe he is worth the 2nd chance. You did seem very happy. I think everyone deserve a second chance.  Good luck.

[Ruby Slippers]

27 minutes ago, Angelflower said:

Sounds like you just opened the door for a second chance. From what I have read I think his apology is sincere. How many do you need? All the post you posted in the other thread about your sex life... well from that alone maybe he is worth the 2nd chance. You did seem very happy. I think everyone deserve a second chance.  Good luck.

I just needed one sincere apology where he truly humbled himself. If he had done that right after the blowup, I never would have left. The first sincere one was via text, which to me is lame and doesn't really count. The second one was in person but felt half-assed, or maybe it was just... uninformed? I feel like he didn't even know what to say. His eyes looked so tired that day. He looked deflated, scared, totally unsure of himself.

Yes, our sex life was next level for sure. His sex drive is through the roof and so is mine. I always loved this about us. He's already very politely and super carefully trying to figure out when he's gonna get some again. No surprise there  I explained that he'll have to win my heart over completely and regain my trust so I feel very certain he'll never, ever hurt me like that again before I'm even alone with him. So then he wanted to know if he's allowed to say sweet things, and what about kissing? I'm making it clear he'll have to come correct or be corrected. I must admit this is fun  

He asked if he could see me sooner than Monday. He lives right on the way to my parents' house, so I'm gonna meet him at a coffee shop tomorrow on the way to my parents' and again on the way back Monday.

I know he wants to seal the deal before he goes out of the country next weekend on his 2-week business trip. But I'm just not gonna do that until I'm 100% ready. 

The cool thing is I'm basically like: take it or leave it, and I'm not sweatin' that not even a little bit. And he's being cool and sweet. I told him I like the gentleman in him and hope to see more of him.

[Angelflower]

Are you playing games with him now? 

[Ruby Slippers]

No way! I'm being true to myself, sister, and being 100% open and honest with him about where I stand.

I even kinda joked that if his primary concern is gettin' laid, he's barking up the wrong tree. He assured me that even without intimacy, he really misses me and wants to see me. Damn skippy.

[Ruby Slippers]

Question: I'm thinking it will be best to ask him if he minds going Dutch, at least for a while, or take turns paying when we meet up somewhere.

While he paid for more of our dating expenses than I did, I paid for lots of things. At first I felt like he appreciated that, but then he seemed to be almost keeping score and kind of suggesting I was paying for too many things, as if he felt uneasy about it.

My rationale is that this will keep the playing field level. I don't think he felt entitled or owed anything because of the way expenses were handled. But maybe he did. I feel like if we go Dutch, then this won't be a factor and it'll be safer that way. What do you think?

[salparadise]

Just read the entire thread, hadn't seen it before. There are parallels to the way a relationship of mine collapsed a couple of years ago. I feel as though I can relate to both sides pretty well.

As others mentioned, and before you went into detail, I was trying to figure out what was so egregious as to blow up what you've described as an off-the-charts type of relationship. Then when I heard the he was overtly comparing your breasts to others in public I understood––yea, he messed up bad (amateurish, boorish)... but it was also because you were quite sensitive to it (others may not have been). It seems that you felt disrespected, and that's where the outrage originated within you. I doubt that he intended to disrespect you, he was tipsy and full of himself. All men have an inner child (and ego), and alcohol can unleash it. No one is perfect, and we all screw up in some way eventually.  

You posted several times about being so strong, unaffected by attempts to apologize, and reconcile. One sincere attempt was dismissed because it was via text, so it didn't count. Reading between the lines, I wonder if you're employing the old "the best defense is a strong offense" strategy. And now that you're talking about reconciling and you know you have the upper hand, you seem to be taking some pleasure in making him jump through hoops ("I'm making it clear he'll have to come correct or be corrected. I must admit this is fun"). What I'm getting at is that this outrage about being disrespected in a particular way may be a counter to some of your insecurities. I'm not saying you're wrong to take issue with what happened, only that the magnitude of the reaction is something to think about. Someone else might have dealt with it by whispering in his ear, "buddy, if you ever compare my breasts or appearance, or ogle other women in my presence again, you'll be walking funny and singing two octaves higher before you even finish the comment," and then letting it go after the apology, or the next day.

My suggestion in terms of reconciliation is don''t drag it out too long... and don't emasculate this dominant guy that you care so much about, and make him eternally insecure about the possibility of a foot-in-mouth mistake. It's kind of ironic that when you have that wonderful m/f dynamic that something like this makes you want to turn it inside out. I get that you may have needed this process in order to consider reconciliation, but just be cognizant whether you want to turn him into a little puddle of protoplasm, or if what you really want is to get your relationship back on track. Wishing you the best, of course.

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by salparadise

[nospam99]

Hey Ruby, I just discovered this thread today because I almost never read Breaking Up. Something you wrote on Cookies' thread in Dating about her taking a trip to Chicago with one of her 'new' guys got me to track this thread down.

First, I'm surprised. Most of what I remember about your posts about this guy were nervousness about meeting his kids and how great the sex was (over and over). I didn't pick up on any hints that there were issues in the relationship and only remember one recent reference to a 'first fight' in passing.

Second, I'm yet another guy with an ego as big as all outdoors, but nowhere near as 'accomplished' (yes, wealth and workplace power are as much a 'measure of a man' as height, gym bod, or junk size) as this guy is.

Third, what I get offended you was related to him blatantly comparing you to other women.

So what I'm curious about is, whether prior to the fight, you had posted anything that YOU thought would have tipped off readers here on LS that there were issues, whether those issues were about comparing/objectifying women or anything else. If you had posted any hints, well, mea culpa for being oblivious.

Not to justify your guy's behavior, but I think it's also worth mentioning that I'm as guilty as the next guy of admiring the looks of women other than the one I'm dating. I have yet to meet a man who doesn't. The difference, at least for me and many other men, is I/we explicitly try to be discreet about it ... don't stare, don't say a word of admiration of the other woman nor a word of comparison or criticism, and certainly don't make any attempts to contact another woman. The closest I ever get is acknowledging the appeal of other women. If my dating partner were to ask me if a friend of theirs was attractive, I'd feel free to give an honest yes/no answer. Or if we were discussing some celebrity, I'd feel similarly free to acknowledge something like 'yes, Scarlett Johansson is an attractive woman'.

Example: I was dating a woman one of whose recent ex's was lovebombing her with photos of his 'new' women. My guess, and hers, was that it was a classless attempt to deliver the message of 'see, I can do better than you'. (LOL that OTHER men anywhere near my age can still be that immature) My date showed me the photos of this other guy's two new women and asked what I thought of their looks. I answered truthfully but briefly.

[elaine567]

I have done what you are doing.
A man shows you basic disrespect, something that shows you he is not the man you thought he was, something that makes you feel bad inside, something that brings you as a person down.
You call him out on it, but  inside he doesn't really see what you see, he was entitled to do what he did. You are over reacting... 
He sees your displeasure and he tries to get out of it, he tries to minimise, he then tries to appease. he tries the soft soap, the humour, the "Come on now what we had was good..." etc.. etc.
He appears desperate to get you back, you want him back, you start relenting, you convince yourself that yes it is good, that perhaps you were being unfair and making more of it that it deserves.
You make the peace. 
You tell yourself he didn't mean it, he was just being stupid, he will learn his lesson...

BUT what you have done is taught him that you are an easy mark. He pushed the boundaries and you rolled over.
You are not dealing with an 18yo naive boy here, you are dealing with a man, a man with grown up children and an ex wife, a man who holds a very high up position in his job.
He launched the attack on you to put you in your place, he has then done the ground work to repair the damage, but he knows you are going nowhere, he knows he has you and now he has one over on you.
That is the problem. 
You, like me, will absorb the disrespect and the hurt in order to maintain the status quo, but things have shifted slightly and you will slowly find you gave up more here than you think you have.
 

[Ruby Slippers]

42 minutes ago, salparadise said:

Just read the entire thread, hadn't seen it before. There are parallels to the way a relationship of mine collapsed a couple of years ago. I feel as though I can relate to both sides pretty well.

I appreciate you reading it all and giving your feedback! You have some great insights.

42 minutes ago, salparadise said:

Then when I heard the he was overtly comparing your breasts to others in public I understood––yea, he messed up bad (amateurish, boorish)... but it was also because you were quite sensitive to it (others may not have been). It seems that you felt disrespected, and that's where the outrage originated within you. I doubt that he intended to disrespect you, he was tipsy and full of himself. All men have an inner child (and ego), and alcohol can unleash it. No one is perfect, and we all screw up in some way eventually.  

Very perceptive. I am highly sensitive. I could never get used to that kind of treatment. I would honestly rather not have a man that have one who treats me like that. It would drive me to a nervous breakdown.

Quote

Reading between the lines, I wonder if you're employing the old "the best defense is a strong offense" strategy. And now that you're talking about reconciling and you know you have the upper hand, you seem to be taking some pleasure in making him jump through hoops ("I'm making it clear he'll have to come correct or be corrected. I must admit this is fun").

OK. Well, what other kind of defense is there to a situation like this? As I see it, it's very clear. He messed up, I was justifiably offended, and the onus is on to him to correct the situation in a way that feels safe and good for the offended party to accept. I don't think that "coming correct" is jumping through hoops. Shouldn't we all come correct? I've always come correct with him. Not saying I'm perfect, but I've never done anything so rude. I realized that I had let too much slide, so now is definitely the time to make my high standard very clear. Enjoying my power position - well, again, that seems totally natural to me given the circumstances. Isn't it always satisfying to see someone who wronged you eating crow? Yes, this is not the most elevated and evolved part of any of us, but it's human and I own it.

Quote

Someone else might have dealt with it by whispering in his ear, "buddy, if you ever compare my breasts or appearance, or ogle other women in my presence again, you'll be walking funny and singing two octaves higher before you even finish the comment," and then letting it go after the apology, or the next day.

I see what you mean, but please keep in mind I didn't tell all the dirty details. At first I tried your idea, but he just wouldn't let up and it became a losing battle. It was also part of a pattern over time that was getting worse. Right after the swinger chick made her move at him, he ordered me to go to the car and get something we had forgotten. He was already being a dick, so I just looked at him like a bug and said, "You go get it." Then he started joking that if he went to get it, swinger chick would be looking at him and maybe he'd be looking at her, too. So, this is a veiled threat - do what I say, or some other chick will. Eventually, he convinced me to go the car together. We knew we had a long wait still, so we got in the car. Then he goes, "Why don't you give me a blow job?" LOL! I scoffed, loudly, and said, "Why don't you eat my pussy?" Then we had a stupid little debate about it. "There's no room in the car." "Back seat works fine." And so on.

So, maybe this was his convoluted attempt to be "dominant." But he utterly failed to arouse a shred of desire within me to follow his stupid, drunken commands. I think a big part of the appeal of the dominant man is his ability to gauge and read his woman's feelings and moods, applying a soft or strong hand when appropriate. It's a display of competence and emotional intelligence. Up to this point, for the most part (though with some exceptions) he had been pretty good and getting better at reading me and expressing sexy/arousing dominant behavior in the right context at the right time. Even his more bold and brazen moves were well-timed and well-received, for the most part. But this was just clunky, amateur, drunk, and stupid. It completely turned me off, downright disgusted me. And this BS went on the whole evening.

The funny thing is that this whole breakdown has made me totally reconsider a few things. First of all, the appeal of the dominant man. I feel like I'm kinda over it. Most of them are just stupid a**h***s is how I feel right now, overgrown egos who've never been properly schooled by a strong, smart woman. I'm sure there are a few mythical unicorns who could live up to the female fantasy version, or close, but very few. 

Second, finances and the provider male are overrated. Now I feel like how much money he has or his ability or willingness to pay for things doesn't mean jack. Right now I feel like I want to go back to the way I was in my 20s, when I insisted on splitting everything equally. Because then I know he has no right to expect anything I don't give willingly and freely. I don't feel like he was lording over me the fact that he has money and is willing to spend it. But I do feel like in some way, he uses his money to compensate for his own insecurities.

He has a nice apartment in the city, and owns a very nice house in another city. He's only been here about a year and a half for his job, said once we met, he started thinking seriously about buying a house here for us, even suggested I rent out my house and live with him. I made it clear I wasn't going to make any real estate transactions for or with him unless we eventually got married - exactly in case something like this happened. But in a subtle way, I felt he was using this great house he was going to buy as a lure, as if he felt he needed to do that to keep me - which is very much not the case. He already suggested he'll buy us a very nice house (the kind of house I'm nowhere near able to afford at this point in time) and someday after he's gone it will be mine. He mentioned this house again when we were texting last night. He suggested we meet at Starbucks, and I countered with this cool local place. He pointed out that's the neighborhood where he's thinking about buying a house, I felt clearly as a way for him to try to remind me that he has this to offer me, as some kind of lure.

What I think he fails to understand is that no house on earth will keep me with a guy who doesn't treat me right. But I'm probably unusual in that way. Probably a lot of women would put up with his s*** to get the house/cash/prizes and then just leave him and take their goodies if he became unbearable. For me, that's not an attractive deal.

So now I'm back to feeling what I was before - as long as the guy isn't a bum, as long as we're on reasonably equal footing financially, that's all that matters. I'm not dragging along dead weight, but I'm never going to sacrifice my sense of well-being for any amount of material things, and perhaps going Dutch through the dating process no matter how much money he has is a way to make this abundantly clear.