My guy and I had a few drinks before dinner last night and he had too much and was being a jerk

[Ruby Slippers]

20 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Months later he snapped one day, stone cold sober, no fight  and out of the  blue, he head butted me and broke my nose...

OMG! That's so awful. 

This guy hasn't shown any violent tendencies, but your story did remind me of something. When I told him I was leaving that night, he goes, "Don't be stupid! Come to bed." I said, "I'm not sleeping with you." He goes, "You can sleep on the couch." LOL! "I'm certainly not sleeping on the couch." I guess that made him realize at least for a moment what an ass he was being, cuz he got on the couch himself. And off I went.

I considered asking him this: If your daughter told you that her boyfriend tried to "jokingly" humiliate and demean her by doing A, B, C, D, and E (all the crummy things he did that night), what would you think and how would you feel? What would you advise your sweet, precious daughter to do?

Of course, he wouldn't be anywhere close to objective in answering the question. But the question has a way of making everything crystal clear.

[mark clemson]

Ouch, Elaine!

[NuevoYorko]

From where I sit, the only questions you need to answer for yourself are 1) do you like, respect and enjoy his company so much that you are willing to take a risk to have it?  and 2) are your boundaries firmly in place and are you confident that you will stay true to them?

All the other stuff, like how much he flattered and love bombed you in "early days" (which is weird, because you knew  him for 8 weeks pre breakup; it's all early days / courtship / honeymoon),  and how high or not your bar is set are not so pertinent.  Neither is how he worded his apologies.  If you choose to go forward, you're accepting him as he is.  There is a behavior you won't accept.   I'd advise you to just go forward with him like a fresh start, if you choose to try more, but at the first hint of that behavior, move on.  Don't bother with sharing your analyses about his issues either.   He doesn't need to hear it again.  He'll either learn from the school of hard knocks, or he won't.  The only thing that really matters is that YOU do not accept whatever, and so you're saying goodbye.   

[elaine567]

24 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

This guy hasn't shown any violent tendencies..,

Neither did the guy I spoke about, at only 8 weeks...
At 8 weeks he was still "perfect"...

[Ruby Slippers]

4 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

From where I sit, the only questions you need to answer for yourself are 1) do you like, respect and enjoy his company so much that you are willing to take a risk to have it?  and 2) are your boundaries firmly in place and are you confident that you will stay true to them?

If you choose to go forward, you're accepting him as he is.  There is a behavior you won't accept.   I'd advise you to just go forward with him like a fresh start, if you choose to try more, but at the first hint of that behavior, move on.

Yes, I totally agree. I'm considering both options: never see him again, or give him a second chance.

I lost a lot of respect for him through this. It would take a whole lot on his part to get it back.

I'm very confident that my boundaries are firmly in place now. One big benefit of seeing him again is that it would give me a clear opportunity to test that. I feel like this time, I GOT IT, and I'll never forget or lose what I've learned. But I don't need to see him for that. Life will test me plenty.

If I do give him another chance, I'll be highly self-protective for quite some time. I'd meet him in public and have my own car for a good long while.

And yes, I've already decided, and I told him clearly, that if he ever attempts to demean me again, I'm gone for good. 

[Artdeco]

9 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

If I do give him another chance, I'll be highly self-protective for quite some time. I'd meet him in public and have my own car for a good long while.

 

I can’t wait to find out how that’s gonna go, you guys meeting in a public place “for a good long while”, and you driving off in your own car after dinner each time. You should try that. I wonder how he’ll react after you do this say 5 times. 😊😊

[Ruby Slippers]

On 1/20/2020 at 5:28 AM, elaine567 said:

RS has played the "perfect woman" very well.
She is feminine, nice, accommodating, traditional, accepts his position as the man in charge, and the sex is to die for.

Reviewing the thread, I just wanted to say this. I wasn't playing a role. I AM feminine, nice, accommodating, traditional, and I want a man who's in charge, with sex to die for. All this is ME, natural me.

If you take away the demeaning behavior, he was a great counterpart - masculine, assertive, traditional, and wants a woman who's competent on her own but willing to trust and follow his lead.

In one of his messages the past few days, he said I'm not as "submissive" as I made myself out to be, that I'm really a "strong woman". He went on to say that's fine and he'd never want to hold me back from developing any parts of my personality I want to develop. I mentioned before that I think we're both really "switches," enjoy taking turns with the reins.

I didn't even respond to that. But the truth is I'm a strong woman who, like many women, longs for a strong men worthy of submitting to in a natural, biological way. On that night, he's the one who failed to lead properly. I was following beautifully, till he tried to lead me astray.

Just wanted to clarify that. 

[Ruby Slippers]

10 minutes ago, Artdeco said:

I can’t wait to find out how that’s gonna go, you guys meeting in a public place “for a good long while”, and you driving off in your own car after dinner each time. You should try that. I wonder how he’ll react after you do this say 5 times. 😊😊

Knowing him, he'd get tired of it after 2 or 3 times 😂

[Artdeco]

Yup, I’m pretty sure he would. 

[mark clemson]

14 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

In one of his messages the past few days, he said I'm not as "submissive" as I made myself out to be, that I'm really a "strong woman". He went on to say that's fine and he'd never want to hold me back from developing any parts of my personality I want to develop. I mentioned before that I think we're both really "switches," enjoy taking turns with the reins.

FWIW, that sounds about right from some of the stuff you described...

[Ruby Slippers]

2 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

FWIW, that sounds about right from some of the stuff you described...

This is why I said this is kind of fun - and then so many people got in a twist about that. He tried to "top" me and failed. Now he's coming at me "from the bottom".

He's never begged - I don't think either of us would get to that point or be attracted to anyone who would (no offense to the poster who said he did once make the mistake of begging - we all live and learn!). 

But he did say, "I want you back, I don't know how to get you back, and I want you to tell me how."

In some ways I'm a more competent "top," and it's kinda fun to express that side, I admit it. Sue me  

[mark clemson]

Well, there's switching/power dynamics in the bedroom and then there's those in the relationship. Often different, not always. But yes, I can see what you're saying.

I was thinking of when he would kiss your rear end and also asking your permission to masturbate. Not typically Dom things.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

9 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

This is why I said this is kind of fun - and then so many people got in a twist about that. He tried to "top" me and failed. Now he's coming at me "from the bottom".

He's never begged - I don't think either of us would get to that point or be attracted to anyone who would (no offense to the poster who said he did once make the mistake of begging - we all live and learn!). 

But he did say, "I want you back, I don't know how to get you back, and I want you to tell me how."

In some ways I'm a more competent "top," and it's kinda fun to express that side, I admit it. Sue me  

 

None of that changes who he fundamentally is. Only you know if you are proud of those character traits.

[Ruby Slippers]

Just now, mark clemson said:

Well, there's switching/power dynamics in the bedroom and then there's those in the relationship. Often different, not always. But yes, I can see what you're saying.

I was thinking of when he would kiss your rear end and also asking your permission to masturbate. Not typically Dom things.

Yes, good point! It never made sense to me when people talk about power dynamics only in the bedroom. Energy is energy. You don't change into a different person as soon as you leave the bed.

It's funny, but thinking of the whole thing in terms of these power dynamics really simplifies it. 

While he definitely has dominant tendencies (as well as submissive = switch, just like me), I don't think he ever developed or expressed his dominant side to the extent that he did with me. We unlocked something new for him that he really liked, a new power, you could say. But it went to his head. He had this big heavy sword in his hands that he didn't quite know how to handle yet. He started trying to make me jump through hoops - and to an extent, I did it.

Well, now it's my turn. This means that if it gets to that point, the makeup sex will indeed be amazing, and it'll be on my terms. A fun thought for sure

[mark clemson]

Fair enough. Do you want to waste too much time "having fun" with D/s (in or out of bedroom) with a guy who's ultimately not right for you, though? You might feel in control, but if/when you're a new mom one day you'll need a man who genuinely has your back. That would be a very bad time for Mr. Nasty, who'd been temporarily beaten into submission/repressed, to come back out. And with a kid, while you can still separate etc., you're more or less permanently tied to the guy at some level...

I'm not sure Mr. Nasty is a D/s thing. Suspect it's more of a personality thing. The dreams about arguing with his mother, etc.

[thefooloftheyear]

I didn't read the whole thing but the "highs and lows" and wild extreme's seem to your M/O when it comes this stuff.. , at least its the way it appears from this perspective..

I'm not here to armchair psychoanalyze, but it does seem like that pattern exists...

Without you going off on me now,😕 is there a possibility that there is something to this??

You seem like the type of woman that has guys on eggshells...Again, I am just trying to be helpful and give you an opinion based on what I perceive is a pattern....No way am I saying its your fault or that you are damaged, just making an observation...

Now excuse me while I buckle my chinstrap...😄

TFY

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I didn't read the whole thing but the "highs and lows" and wild extreme's seem to your M/O when it comes this stuff.. , at least its the way it appears from this perspective..

I'm not here to armchair psychoanalyze, but it does seem like that pattern exists...

Without you going off on me now,😕 is there a possibility that there is something to this??

You seem like the type of woman that has guys on eggshells...Again, I am just trying to be helpful and give you an opinion based on what I perceive is a pattern....No way am I saying its your fault or that you are damaged, just making an observation...

Now excuse me while I buckle my chinstrap...😄

TFY

Sure, there's something to it, and it probably comes from the patterns I observed in my parents. 

I never intend to have a man on eggshells. Consciously, all I want is to enjoy a happy, fun, peaceful, productive, sexy, adventurous, cool, dynamic, amazing life with my man. Most of the time that's what we did. 

I think I really challenge my romantic partners, but I think I do it fairly. I haven't discussed this here, but I analyzed him a bit after he was a little too touchy on the first date, I nexted him, and he came back around asking for another chance. I told him that through the shiny veneer, I could see some lurking insecurity. For whatever reason, I think he worries he's not good-looking enough - which is funny, because that's been one of my biggest insecurities.

He's very intelligent, and I'm not trying to brag, but I've been tested and identified as the same, from a young age. I don't think he's ever been involved with a woman anywhere close to his level of intellect, which means they had no hope of truly "decoding" him. It's also hard for me to find men on my level intellectually, so they don't tend to do a very good job of decoding me.

So maybe, in spite of the issues I've uncovered here, I've met my match. We've looked at a few different personality modeling systems and we're a perfect match according to all of them.

He's pretty pervy, though says he's never cheated, never even been to a strip club, and I'm similar - super pervy but haven't had many partners, loyal to one guy. I am unsettled and threatened when he talks too much about his far-out fantasies and other women, but maybe that's my own insecurity to deal with.

I don't know. But please, feel free to give me your uncensored thoughts. I'm sure I need to grow and evolve as much as he does, as much as anybody does. I have no ego about this. I want to be a better person

[Ruby Slippers]

11 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

if/when you're a new mom one day you'll need a man who genuinely has your back

One thing I can say for him is that he's an amazing father to his 2 grown kids. He didn't want to get divorced until the kids were grown because he didn't want to break up the family. He says he's had zero communication with his ex-wife for many years, but from what I can see, he's a model father. The only criticism I might have is that he's a bit soft on them and they rely too much on his wallet. He also pushes them very hard in school and toward career. I get the impression they both feel a lot of pressure to live up to his level of accomplishment, and it seems to me he could be a little less hard-nosed about that and a little more loving and expressive with them regardless of their academic and career achievements. I think they'd all be happier and closer if that were the case, and he would love that. But his old world upbringing is at play there. 

[mark clemson]

10 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

 I am unsettled and threatened when he talks too much about his far-out fantasies and other women, but maybe that's my own insecurity to deal with.

I don't know. But please, feel free to give me your uncensored thoughts.

He shouldn't be talking about other women around you AT ALL. He's very intelligent as you say. Figuring out how to push your buttons a bit (as you are his).

[Woggle]

Don't play games with this. I understand why you want out but games are not worth it. 

[Miss Spider]

I agree. That’s not respectful in a monogamous relationship.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[mark clemson]

5 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

One thing I can say for him is that he's an amazing father to his 2 grown kids.

Amazing father is great - how was he as a husband, though?

Apologies if I'm coming off as harsh, but just trying to give you food for thought. "Love is blind" and it's clear you two connected well.

[thefooloftheyear]

11 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

 

I don't know. But please, feel free to give me your uncensored thoughts. I'm sure I need to grow and evolve as much as he does, as much as anybody does. I have no ego about this. I want to be a better person

Whew...I thought you were going to flip out...😆

I'm just an idiot on the internet....so take it for what its worth...but I do have fairly good recall..I hope all goes well whatever the final outcome..

TFY

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, it's an interesting angle to consider, but ultimately the dynamic needs to feel good emotionally, and that night felt like crappity crap crap.

[Morello]

I tend to think that a general rule in relationships is that if you need to give your partner many chances before you even get out of the honeymoon stage, it's not going to work out.

You were ready to next him after the first date! You are ready to next him now. And I'd guess you were ready to next him other times during this very brief relationship. This is certainly not a good sign.

The amount of things you describe that you disliked about him gives the impression you're talking about a long term relationship and not one that is still in the very early stages. All the good stuff he did to you could very well be because everyone is supposed to be at their best in the beginning. He is with an attractive woman and all the things he did to please you are very normal in those early stages. Doesn't make him a gentleman at all. He knows what to do to have you asking for more.

I can't predict the future but I think you're just gonna waste your time and emotional energy if you give him another go. And I think you will do, based on how you're defending him here and to your parents. The stuff you described about him talking about other girls breasts, threatening to act on other women if you don't do as he says, asking for a blow job at a very weird time, telling you to sleep on the couch... I honestly don't understand why women put up with behaviour like that and still consider giving the guy another chance. It's really beyond me but I know this is more common that not. 

Deep inside you know exactly how it will play out if you give him another chance and you're still considering him. The origins of his "dominant" side you like are the same origins that makes him be an a**h*** with you. I put dominant in quotes because I think dominant is quite the opposite of that. The blow job situation shows how out of touch he is and tell a lot about his skills in dealing with a challenging event in a relationship. I could almost draw a flowchart in my head, something like: 1. Act like an dickhead. 2. Get called up on it. 3. Don't know what to do. 4. Ask for a blow job.

I think you can do WAY better than this guy.

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Morello